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Approaching 500 games in WoT


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BossmanSlim #1 Posted Jul 23 2017 - 19:55

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Background:

 

I have started playing World of Warships about 2 years and have about 4000 games with that game.  I have ships in all tiers, a couple premium ships and play most of the games under premium time.  I understand WG business model for the most part, even if I disagree with some of it.  As I have gotten a little bit bored with WoWS, I decided to try WoT.

 

The good:

 
  • Game play is pretty quick
  • Graphics are good
  • Controls and UI are acceptable
  • General concepts of game play are fairly easy to understand
 

The bad:

  • T1-T4 is horribly unbalanced, possibly the worst balanced game I have ever played.  When a something like a Pz II G can take out a BT-7, with both tanks facing off front to front and walk away with most of its health due to RNG, rate of fire,etc, that is not a balanced game.  It is not even a rock, paper, scissor situation, some tanks of the same type at the same tier are flat out better than other tanks.
  • The new player penalties are very high due to how the crew skill, consumable and tank upgrades work.  Unless the player decides to shell out some cash, they are not only fighting the uphill battle of in game experience, but also being on an uneven playing field due to these other items.
  • 3-5-7 MM, otherwise known as “bottom tier unless T10”
  • Lopsided losses, I’d say a good 75% of the games I have played have had a 5+ tank differential between the winning team and losing team.  Nothing like watching your team fold up like a cheap lawn chair in the first 2 minutes to inspire continued play.
  • Premium ammo, tons of threads on this, no need to comment further
  • The number of times I’ve been one-shot by an unseen enemy that never show ups is infuriating.  While I understand the spotting mechanics, the lack of teamwork and new player penalties drives me crazy, knowing the main skill I need is 100s of games away.
  • All the game modes are basically the same, kill everyone or capture 1 base to win. Why no point control? Why nothing to discourage camping? Something.
 

Overall, I think I’m done.  I’ll collect by T34 and be done with it.  Maybe is they make changes to the game I’ll be back, but I see no reason to continue playing the game.  All it does is drive me up the wall in how unbalanced it is.  People say, it’s better at high tiers, maybe so, but why should I dread playing the game when all it does is punish you.

 


RedwoodOriginal #2 Posted Jul 23 2017 - 20:04

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I love wot despite its flaws...some say that is true love!

TheGrizzlay #3 Posted Jul 23 2017 - 20:08

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New player experience is terrible in this game. Pretty much for the reasons you highlighted Bossman.

 

It's hard to believe WG hasn't really done much to address it since new blood is the only way to keep a game alive. I wonder what the ratio of new players sticking around is, compared to those that leave in frustration.



Hunk_Ra #4 Posted Jul 23 2017 - 20:12

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Good points, BossMan.

Capt_Nixon #5 Posted Jul 23 2017 - 20:13

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Yes, the WG business model offers WoT customers 3 options:

 

1) Try to buy your way out of the frustration built in to the game (which creates new levels of frustration, perhaps by design, to induce you to spend more $$).

2) Find ways to enjoy the positives to a high enough degree that you can overcome the frustration built in to the game (works for some, not for others).

3) Don't play.

 

I cannot blame you for your decision. Life is short, there are far less frustrating ways to spend your free time.



Beornotns #6 Posted Jul 23 2017 - 20:21

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By all means, enjoy WoWS.

 

Enjoy the new Dunkirk port, and suffer not your time in this locale.

 

However, I submit to you, as you are a learnéd ship's captain (may even have a 15-19 point captain in there somewhere), you MUST know that not all ships are created equal.  The same is true for certain tank tech trees.  Think of an end game.  What tank would you like more than anything?  Now, see if that tank is a viable one given the current meta.  I made the mistake of grinding to the Leopard 1 as my first.  It is an AMAZING tank in the hands of a skilled player.  Or, much more skilled than me.

 

My second tier 10 was the IS-7.  A much more forgiving tank, and I am about to unlock the E100.  These better suit my playstyle.  Had I been more proactive in researching the game, I would probably have researched the E50M as my first tier 10 medium instead...  Oh well, live and learn, yes?  Find what works for you and work towards it.  Back to Warships, I loved, and still love, the British Cruiser line.  But, honestly, before the Fiji, how often do ships in that line get lit up?  The Minotaur (I don't have it yet) is withering fire provided you keep mobile or fire from island cover (thank you rainbow trajectory).  But you have to SUFFER through some bad ships to get there.

 

That BT-7 (a tier III as we remember) leads directly into the VERY formidable T-100 LT, and branches out into 2 of the most devastating medium tanks in the game, the Object 140 and the T-62A.  Just keep your eye on the prize, save your experience, move your crews and progress into better and better tanks, and you will see your enjoyment also get better and better.

 

So, tl/dr- Don't play, but enjoy your other WG title.  OR, keep at it and watch the game come alive under your keyboard and mouse.

 

~B



CrazzyStreaker #7 Posted Jul 23 2017 - 20:33

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The new player experience could be better.

  however new players shouldn't completely judge the game on the solo pub game experience, get one of the good tier 6 Skirmish tanks (the T34-85M is a good one) and join a clan and play in clan battles then you get games with same tier tanks (blowouts still happen occasionally ) then you can see the potential the game has

And you will have more experienced players to platoon with in pub matches which makes them slightly more bearable.

 

  The game has a steep and unforgiving learning curve and it takes 1000-2000 games to start to understand it , again platooning and clan games will help because there will be someone around to help avoid the mistakes solo players make.

 

I joined a clan at around 3500 games and wish i had done it sooner as it would have made things much easier.

  GLHF :playing:


Edited by CrazzyStreaker, Jul 23 2017 - 20:34.


OldFrog75 #8 Posted Jul 23 2017 - 21:03

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This game is not suitable for people who demand immediate gratification.  Spending money can ease the burdens but it will not eliminate them altogether.  One still has to invest the time to learn how to play better and compensate for whatever disadvantages your tank/crew might face.

Gunadie #9 Posted Jul 23 2017 - 21:05

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View PostBossmanSlim, on Jul 23 2017 - 10:55, said:

Background:

 

I have started playing World of Warships about 2 years and have about 4000 games with that game.  I have ships in all tiers, a couple premium ships and play most of the games under premium time.  I understand WG business model for the most part, even if I disagree with some of it.  As I have gotten a little bit bored with WoWS, I decided to try WoT.

 

The good:

 
  • Game play is pretty quick
  • Graphics are good
  • Controls and UI are acceptable
  • General concepts of game play are fairly easy to understand
 

The bad:

  • T1-T4 is horribly unbalanced, possibly the worst balanced game I have ever played.  When a something like a Pz II G can take out a BT-7, with both tanks facing off front to front and walk away with most of its health due to RNG, rate of fire,etc, that is not a balanced game.  It is not even a rock, paper, scissor situation, some tanks of the same type at the same tier are flat out better than other tanks.
  • The new player penalties are very high due to how the crew skill, consumable and tank upgrades work.  Unless the player decides to shell out some cash, they are not only fighting the uphill battle of in game experience, but also being on an uneven playing field due to these other items.
  • 3-5-7 MM, otherwise known as “bottom tier unless T10”
  • Lopsided losses, I’d say a good 75% of the games I have played have had a 5+ tank differential between the winning team and losing team.  Nothing like watching your team fold up like a cheap lawn chair in the first 2 minutes to inspire continued play.
  • Premium ammo, tons of threads on this, no need to comment further
  • The number of times I’ve been one-shot by an unseen enemy that never show ups is infuriating.  While I understand the spotting mechanics, the lack of teamwork and new player penalties drives me crazy, knowing the main skill I need is 100s of games away.
  • All the game modes are basically the same, kill everyone or capture 1 base to win. Why no point control? Why nothing to discourage camping? Something.
 

Overall, I think I’m done.  I’ll collect by T34 and be done with it.  Maybe is they make changes to the game I’ll be back, but I see no reason to continue playing the game.  All it does is drive me up the wall in how unbalanced it is.  People say, it’s better at high tiers, maybe so, but why should I dread playing the game when all it does is punish you.

 

 

Its not the game it once was.

Even if you stick around till you reach the upper tiers, where play is better, as are the tanks, you will find the game demands monetary input in order to be moderately successful and to keep playing at the upper level.

Its a Negative cash draw if you don't have premium tanks or a premium account to fund your play.

Fortunately you have realized this early before dumping hard earned money into a cash cow of a game that fails to head the advice, warnings and pleas of its customer base.



Nixeldon #10 Posted Jul 23 2017 - 21:36

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View PostOldFrog75, on Jul 23 2017 - 15:03, said:

This game is not suitable for people who demand immediate gratification. 

 

There is much truth in that statement.

Capt_Nixon #11 Posted Jul 23 2017 - 21:42

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View PostOldFrog75, on Jul 23 2017 - 14:03, said:

This game is not suitable for people who demand immediate gratification.  

 

Very much this.

 

If this game is earmarked as a hobby for the player, then the player will likely see a slow, gradual reduction in the frustration level as maps, skills and tanks are learned ... much like model building as a hobby in this regard.

 

If, on the other hand, the player chooses this game for leisure, it is not even remotely close to being worth the time commitment required to enjoy it.

 



Treacherous_Neighbour #12 Posted Jul 23 2017 - 21:50

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It gets worse at high tiers.

 

This game feels nothing to put you into battle after battle against swarms of indestructable heavies.

 

you need to spam gold just to survive in most top tier games.

 

you will not make that much credits.

 

Be prepared to spend a ton of cash if you like winning in this game :(


Edited by Treacherous_Neighbour, Jul 23 2017 - 21:50.


Nixeldon #13 Posted Jul 23 2017 - 21:51

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View PostCapt_Nixon, on Jul 23 2017 - 15:42, said:

 

Very much this.

 

If this game is earmarked as a hobby for the player, then the player will likely see a slow, gradual reduction in the frustration level as maps, skills and tanks are learned ... much like model building as a hobby in this regard.

 

If, on the other hand, the player chooses this game for leisure, it is not even remotely close to being worth the time commitment required to enjoy it.

 

 

I enjoyed the game from the first match. There was very little time commitment involved.

OldFrog75 #14 Posted Jul 23 2017 - 22:08

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View PostNixeldon, on Jul 23 2017 - 21:51, said:

 

I enjoyed the game from the first match. There was very little time commitment involved.

 

Interesting.  I estimate 1000 battles represents 100 hours of gaming, not to mention any additional time spent studying Battle Mechanics or watching videos/streams.  How did you do it with very little time commitment?

Capt_Nixon #15 Posted Jul 23 2017 - 22:10

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View PostNixeldon, on Jul 23 2017 - 14:51, said:

 

I enjoyed the game from the first match. There was very little time commitment involved.

 

​Average match is 7 minutes?

 

x 51,980 battles = 6,064 hours of WoT.

 

That's 253 days, or more than 8 months of your life you have spent just playing in matches, not to mention reading, posting, studying tutorials, managing your tanks and crews, etc etc. Call it one full year, all-in.  If you live to 80 years old and don't spend another minute in the WoT universe, you will have spent 1.25% of your life on World of Tanks. So there has been an enormous time commitment involved.  The fact that you enjoy it makes that enormous time commitment worth it for you, but that is not the case for a significant number (an overwhelming majority?) of new players.



CL45 #16 Posted Jul 23 2017 - 23:30

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.

Edited by CL45, Jul 23 2017 - 23:30.


Nixeldon #17 Posted Jul 23 2017 - 23:37

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View PostOldFrog75, on Jul 23 2017 - 16:08, said:

Interesting.  I estimate 1000 battles represents 100 hours of gaming, not to mention any additional time spent studying Battle Mechanics or watching videos/streams.  How did you do it with very little time commitment?

What part of "I enjoyed the game from the first match" didn't you understand? It was a direct response to:

Block Quote

 ...it is not even remotely close to being worth the time commitment required to enjoy it.

If I enjoyed the game the first match I played, how much time was required to enjoy it? Are you insinuating that I didn't enjoy WOT my first match? Are you saying that it requires hundreds of hours for a person to determine if they like the game or not?

 

View PostCapt_Nixon, on Jul 23 2017 - 16:10, said:

 

​Average match is 7 minutes?

 

x 51,980 battles = 6,064 hours of WoT.

 

That's 253 days, or more than 8 months of your life you have spent just playing in matches, not to mention reading, posting, studying tutorials, managing your tanks and crews, etc etc. Call it one full year, all-in.  If you live to 80 years old and don't spend another minute in the WoT universe, you will have spent 1.25% of your life on World of Tanks. So there has been an enormous time commitment involved.  The fact that you enjoy it makes that enormous time commitment worth it for you, but that is not the case for a significant number (an overwhelming majority?) of new players.

Your time estimate is way off, but it doesn't matter. The time I have spent playing WOT vs the time required to enjoy it are not the same. If you want to make the claim that a certain number of people don't enjoy the game and therefor don't find the game worth their time investment, that is a different argument and an entirely subjective one at that so there is nothing to debate. However, don't misconstrue my statement.
 
I downloaded WOT. Selected a T1 Cunningham. I clicked Battle. I died on Malinovka in about 45 seconds and I had fun. Aside from downloading the game, I committed about minute and a half to enjoy it. There was no enormous time commitment involved.

 

Edit: My wife was logged in and it messed the reply.


Edited by Nixeldon, Jul 23 2017 - 23:38.


OldFrog75 #18 Posted Jul 23 2017 - 23:55

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View PostNixeldon, on Jul 23 2017 - 23:37, said:

What part of "I enjoyed the game from the first match" didn't you understand? It was a direct response to:

If I enjoyed the game the first match I played, how much time was required to enjoy it? Are you insinuating that I didn't enjoy WOT my first match? Are you saying that it requires hundreds of hours for a person to determine if they like the game or not?

 

 

Edit: My wife was logged in and it messed the reply.

Oh...now I get it.  You were saying it didn't require any time commitment to enjoy the first game.  I thought you meant it didn't take any time commitment to learn how to play...and having learned then enjoy it.  My comment was meant in the context of the OP and how he's ready to quit after 500 games.  


Edited by OldFrog75, Jul 23 2017 - 23:56.


BossmanSlim #19 Posted Jul 24 2017 - 00:07

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View PostOldFrog75, on Jul 23 2017 - 21:03, said:

This game is not suitable for people who demand immediate gratification.  Spending money can ease the burdens but it will not eliminate them altogether.  One still has to invest the time to learn how to play better and compensate for whatever disadvantages your tank/crew might face.

 

That there is funny, real funny.  From the first time I played WoWS, I enjoyed it, some things were more frustrating than others, but I basically enjoyed the game.  

 

Let's look at the other games I have played in some depth over the past two years:

  • Ships - liked it out of the box, I get burnt out occasionally, but enjoy it for the most part
  • Factorio - liked it out of the box, currently waiting on them to finalize the game a bit more
  • Masters of Orion (WG title) - liked it out of the box, still needs some tweaks, but I got my money out of it
  • Planet Coaster - good to go for the most part, finished all the challenges and am good with it
  • Cities Skylines - liked it until it got repetitive
  • Fallout 4 - liked it and took my time to finish it


If I had paid for this game on steam, there is a high chance I would have asked for my money back and that takes into account I knew what I was getting in to.  You don't sell games and make money by not giving the player some immediate gratification.  WoT would probably do well to implement the PvE side of WoWS to allow players to stick their toe into PvE at their own pace.



Nixeldon #20 Posted Jul 24 2017 - 00:08

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View PostOldFrog75, on Jul 23 2017 - 17:55, said:

Oh...now I get it.  You were saying it didn't require any time commitment to enjoy the first game.  I thought you meant it didn't take any time commitment to learn how to play...and having learned then enjoy it.  My comment was meant in the context of the OP and how he's ready to quit after 500 games.  

 

Oh no!!! It requires a few thousand matches for most players to get the hang of it. Some of us never really get very good, but that doesn't mean it isn't fun or we should stop trying. Some people don't enjoy the steep learning curve, and that is their prerogative. 

Edited by Nixeldon, Jul 24 2017 - 00:09.





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