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Approaching 500 games in WoT


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Boghie #21 Posted Jul 24 2017 - 03:18

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You know what is weird about it.   I like the fact that each tank is different.  I stick around because I have to adjust game play based on my tank, my visible opponent(s), and even my invisible opponent(s).  Not to mention what my team is doing.  Anyway, why should the PzIIG and the BT7 play the same - simply because they are both light tanks.  I've got five times the game you've got and got derped by a BT7 a couple of weeks ago.  Glorious.  Got on Tanks.gg and the next BT7 was blapped.

 

I haven't played for two weeks...  Why?  Am I quittin'.  Nope, I'm watching and learning.  I will probably hit it hard next weekend.  I think I want to take my PzIVD crew to the PzIVH.  I've been playing the M4 for a while and think I can hang in Tier V with the PzIVH.



Red_Ensign #22 Posted Jul 24 2017 - 03:45

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View PostBossmanSlim, on Jul 23 2017 - 12:55, said:


 

The bad:

  • T1-T4 is horribly unbalanced, possibly the worst balanced game I have ever played.  When a something like a Pz II G can take out a BT-7, with both tanks facing off front to front and walk away with most of its health due to RNG, rate of fire,etc, that is not a balanced game.  It is not even a rock, paper, scissor situation, some tanks of the same type at the same tier are flat out better than other tanks.
 

 

with a tank as crazy fast as the bt-7 there's almost no possible excuse for fighting something like a Pz IIG on its terms and not yours.

 

agree with some points you made and I'm also on a VERY long break, but the above just had to be said.



Fulcrous #23 Posted Jul 24 2017 - 04:12

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View PostBossmanSlim, on Jul 23 2017 - 10:55, said:

The bad:
  • T1-T4 is horribly unbalanced, possibly the worst balanced game I have ever played.  When a something like a Pz II G can take out a BT-7, with both tanks facing off front to front and walk away with most of its health due to RNG, rate of fire,etc, that is not a balanced game.  It is not even a rock, paper, scissor situation, some tanks of the same type at the same tier are flat out better than other tanks. agree
  • The new player penalties are very high due to how the crew skill, consumable and tank upgrades work.  Unless the player decides to shell out some cash, they are not only fighting the uphill battle of in game experience, but also being on an uneven playing field due to these other items. agree
  • 3-5-7 MM, otherwise known as “bottom tier unless T10” this isn't bad at all in my opinion.
  • Lopsided losses, I’d say a good 75% of the games I have played have had a 5+ tank differential between the winning team and losing team.  Nothing like watching your team fold up like a cheap lawn chair in the first 2 minutes to inspire continued play. issue is more compounded by player ineptitude
  • Premium ammo, tons of threads on this, no need to comment further no comment
  • The number of times I’ve been one-shot by an unseen enemy that never show ups is infuriating.  While I understand the spotting mechanics, the lack of teamwork and new player penalties drives me crazy, knowing the main skill I need is 100s of games away. Yes, the lack of actual "teamwork" irks me, too. The only time you see some form of teamwork is when you get xvm rushers/focusers.
  • Why nothing to discourage camping? Something. This is the one thing that I agree with the most. The biggest issue about WG maps are the fact that so many encourage camping. If someone new can pick point up, then clearly this is something WG should be working on and not adding with new map changes.

 

Overall I agree. Some points I don't.

zed2204 #24 Posted Jul 24 2017 - 05:35

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"Why nothing to discourage camping? Something. This is the one thing that I agree with the most. The biggest issue about WG maps are the fact that so many encourage camping. If someone new can pick point up, then clearly this is something WG should be working on and not adding with new map changes "


How do you exactly see a new map that does that ? I can't .
Only total corridorrs make camping useless, but even then super heavies can still stay and hold a spot the whole game, and we all can see how fun corridorrs are for 90% of the tanks
On each and every open map people will camp, it is unavoidable, but it is how the game works, TD camping makes the game of the LT spotting worth while

BossmanSlim #25 Posted Jul 24 2017 - 12:58

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View PostRed_Ensign, on Jul 24 2017 - 03:45, said:

 

with a tank as crazy fast as the bt-7 there's almost no possible excuse for fighting something like a Pz IIG on its terms and not yours.

 

agree with some points you made and I'm also on a VERY long break, but the above just had to be said.

 

The BT-7 and PZ II are both light tanks, they are in the same class.  Let's do some comparison

 

The BT-7 has a maximum of 20 armor, while the PZ with the 2cm Flak 38 has a penetration value of 39, this means that unless the PZ is hitting substantially sloped armor and getting a bad roll, it is not going to bounce, never mind some stat padding troll using APCR with 51 penetration.  The PZ II can clip out a BT-7 in 11 seconds (3x full unloads of clip and 2x reloads).  It takes the BT-7 12 seconds to kill a PZ II, assuming 1 miss.  The PZ II has a 257 more DPM, so the BT-7 must be better at something in order for be balanced.

 

Gun handling - nope, PZ II is better in all aspects except elevation and dispersion, but it has a better aim time

Mobility - about equal in all categories except power to weight and track traverse, which means the BT-7 can run away faster if you are going up hill.  They are within 5 kph speed, so it is not like you can out run it like say a Matilda

Armor & health - nope, PZ II is better in all aspects except engine health

View & radio range - nope, PZ II is better in all aspects

 

But you say, the BT can take out other tanks that the PZ II can't because of its higher penetration of 58.  While this is sort of true and the BT-7 does up tier slightly better, running APCR cancels that out and the burst damage of the PZ II allows it to execute hit and run tactics while the BT-7 is playing peek-a-bo praying not to get derp gunned or tracked.

 

These two T3 light tanks are not balanced against each other, mainly because armor means nothing at T3, so high alpha guns work best (fast firing burst or derp)

 



jimisphlat #26 Posted Jul 24 2017 - 14:03

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I'm still learning. The learning curve is steep and frustrating. Yet with 17 tanks (5 of which are tier 5) I manage to keep my head well above water, credit wise.

BossmanSlim #27 Posted Aug 11 2017 - 15:55

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Whelp, I got my T34 premium tank, played one match in it and couple other in some other tanks and I'm done. WoWS released a new campaign and Path of Exile just put out the 3.0 update, so plenty do to other than play WoT.  I spent $40 on Path of Exile because they are being responsive to the player base, introducing new content and I feel the game is fair.  Had tanks caught my interest about a month ago and not made me feel like I was being tortured, they probably would have gotten that money.

Sgt__Guffy #28 Posted Aug 11 2017 - 17:43

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View PostBossmanSlim, on Jul 23 2017 - 12:55, said:

Background:

 

I have started playing World of Warships about 2 years and have about 4000 games with that game.  I have ships in all tiers, a couple premium ships and play most of the games under premium time.  I understand WG business model for the most part, even if I disagree with some of it.  As I have gotten a little bit bored with WoWS, I decided to try WoT.

 

The good:

 
  • Game play is pretty quick
  • Graphics are good
  • Controls and UI are acceptable
  • General concepts of game play are fairly easy to understand
 

The bad:

  • T1-T4 is horribly unbalanced, possibly the worst balanced game I have ever played.  When a something like a Pz II G can take out a BT-7, with both tanks facing off front to front and walk away with most of its health due to RNG, rate of fire,etc, that is not a balanced game.  It is not even a rock, paper, scissor situation, some tanks of the same type at the same tier are flat out better than other tanks.
  • The new player penalties are very high due to how the crew skill, consumable and tank upgrades work.  Unless the player decides to shell out some cash, they are not only fighting the uphill battle of in game experience, but also being on an uneven playing field due to these other items.
  • 3-5-7 MM, otherwise known as “bottom tier unless T10”
  • Lopsided losses, I’d say a good 75% of the games I have played have had a 5+ tank differential between the winning team and losing team.  Nothing like watching your team fold up like a cheap lawn chair in the first 2 minutes to inspire continued play.
  • Premium ammo, tons of threads on this, no need to comment further
  • The number of times I’ve been one-shot by an unseen enemy that never show ups is infuriating.  While I understand the spotting mechanics, the lack of teamwork and new player penalties drives me crazy, knowing the main skill I need is 100s of games away.
  • All the game modes are basically the same, kill everyone or capture 1 base to win. Why no point control? Why nothing to discourage camping? Something.
 

Overall, I think I’m done.  I’ll collect by T34 and be done with it.  Maybe is they make changes to the game I’ll be back, but I see no reason to continue playing the game.  All it does is drive me up the wall in how unbalanced it is.  People say, it’s better at high tiers, maybe so, but why should I dread playing the game when all it does is punish you.

 

 

 

Although I'm taking a break from WOT, as the losing streak was becoming embarrassing, I am still here. Not much of a advert I know, probably "sad" would be a more appropriate word. 

 

On a more serious note OP, five hundred games is not really a true test, you need to spend more time and play more games. The biggest problem is players expectations are often far too high. You must take each game at a time, learn your strengths and discipline yourself to deal with your weaknesses.

 

This sums up where it is going wrong for the OP.

 

" When a something like a Pz II G can take out a BT-7, with both tanks facing off front to front and walk away with most of its health due to RNG, rate of fire,etc, that is not a balanced game."

 

Does it not occur to the OP that you could be playing the game all wrong? It is not just about firing at tanks facing front to front. Okay, you sometimes cannot escape it, but the game is about outwitting your opponents. Survival is the key and you will spend most of the time trying to do that if you want to improve your performance in the game.

 

So with that in mind, here are a few tips to help anyone with the same problem:

 

Take it one game at a time. If you are destroyed do not leave the game. Right click on the mouse and ghost your team mates. Select vehicles you have, or are interested in, and observe how to, or not to, play!

 

Don't rush up the tiers. The higher tiers are not necessarily a suitable environment to learn. So getting that premium tier 8 and expecting to become a unicum is a fools hope.

 

Play within your limitations. it is cheaper playing in the low tiers and less costly if you make mistakes! The low tiers are there for a reason, go figure!

 

It often does not occur to players they are playing in the wrong vehicle. You must find your play style and match the vehicle to that play style. Otherwise you are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and you will struggle. It is not the way to progress. There will be times where you have to play unsuitable vehicles in order to progress up the trees. The important thing is to know why it is unsuitable, not go merrily along in blissful ignorance!

 

Grind your tanks! Skipping is all well and good to avoid the tanks you hate, but you don't learn! There is a reason why you grind, it is the best way to get to know about the vehicle, not only from the point of view of playing it, but facing it as the enemy! Yes you can pay to win, but it is not the best way to learn the game.

 

Complacency is the real enemy. It will lose you games. That is the time to take a break. 

 

I hope that helps.

 

Have fun,

 

Guffy.

 

 

 

 



BossmanSlim #29 Posted Aug 11 2017 - 18:05

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View PostSgt__Guffy, on Aug 11 2017 - 17:43, said:

On a more serious note OP, five hundred games is not really a true test, you need to spend more time and play more games. The biggest problem is players expectations are often far too high. You must take each game at a time, learn your strengths and discipline yourself to deal with your weaknesses.

 

  1. Take it one game at a time. If you are destroyed do not leave the game. Right click on the mouse and ghost your team mates. Select vehicles you have, or are interested in, and observe how to, or not to, play!
  2. Don't rush up the tiers. The higher tiers are not necessarily a suitable environment to learn. So getting that premium tier 8 and expecting to become a unicum is a fools hope.
  3. Play within your limitations. it is cheaper playing in the low tiers and less costly if you make mistakes! The low tiers are there for a reason, go figure!
  4. It often does not occur to players they are playing in the wrong vehicle. You must find your play style and match the vehicle to that play style. Otherwise you are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and you will struggle. It is not the way to progress. There will be times where you have to play unsuitable vehicles in order to progress up the trees. The important thing is to know why it is unsuitable, not go merrily along in blissful ignorance!
  5. Grind your tanks! Skipping is all well and good to avoid the tanks you hate, but you don't learn! There is a reason why you grind, it is the best way to get to know about the vehicle, not only from the point of view of playing it, but facing it as the enemy! Yes you can pay to win, but it is not the best way to learn the game.
  6. Complacency is the real enemy. It will lose you games. That is the time to take a break. 

 

I strongly disagree with this statement.  500 battles is the equivalent of 42 hours of play assuming 5 minute average game time.  That is longer than some entire single player games take and well into the amount of time any other game takes to determine if it scratches the fun itch or not.  Most games are really fun to start and then run downhill at the end due to the tedious or repetitive nature of the endgame.

 

My expectations is to have fun in the majority of the games win or loose.  This game is not fun for me the majority of the time for the reasons stated.  I should not have to invest 100s of hours in a game to find out that it is fun.  I had fun with EVE Online from the get go, even though that is one of the most tedious and boring games out there at times. Every other game I have played, I have had fun right out of the box and usually quit due to burn out.  Not WoT, I moved up some trees to see if it would ever be consistently fun and the answer I kept getting was "no".

 

  1. No thanks, I'll watch Twitch.  I don't need to spend my limited time available to actually play games watching others on my team act like morons.
  2. I have no intention to purchase a T8 premium because I know it is a pointless venture from WoWS and T8 MM sucks right now.
  3. I'd be fine with playing low tiers if not for the horrible imbalance and proliferance of seal clubbers.
  4. Let's see, almost all low tier tanks are lights, TDs or SPGs.  The play styles I have to choose from are artillery, which probably isn't the best thing for new players.  TDs, which need camo and experienced crews to do anything meaningful.  Lastly, I can play light tanks, which all have paper armor and it then becomes about picking the most OP one.  There are some mediums and heavies sprinkled in, but why would I grind something that isn't going to lead to an end goal tank?  Even I do find something I like, say a heavy, all the enemy has to do is press 2 and that's out the window.  Low tiers are playing the most OP light tank with an experienced crew and full upgrades.  That is what wins games.
  5. I didn't skip anything
  6. I am not complacent.  I have acknowledge the short comings of my WoT account.  I know what needs to be done to correct them, but I am not spending a dime nor going to grind thousands of games in the hopes that the game will be fun.


miklkit #30 Posted Aug 11 2017 - 18:10

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You're still here?  I'm taking a break too but for a different reason.  My ping went from 20-30 to 40-50 and suddenly tanks were disappearing here and reappearing there and the target reticule was wandering all over the screen making it impossible to fire accurately. 

 

  I have a new puter and really need to play this game but just have not been able to work up the interest.  There are still reports of lag coming in too.



Boghie #31 Posted Aug 11 2017 - 18:18

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BossmanSlim,

 

So you like games that offer lots of shooting and excitement or whatever but get boring and repetitive at higher tiers?  How much strategy is there in the equivalent of Tiers 1 - III/IV in WOW or some of the other games mentioned?  This is the only online game I've played so I really don't know and I have been thinking about playing WOW.  

 

Personally, I thought the early games were kind of boring because of the 'fast action' and muggle play - but, I knew I was a muggle.  I found Tier III confusing because I could no longer pen some of the tanks and the maps started to get more involved.  Plus, it was Tier III were I found my first real seal clubbers.  But, I have run into seal clubbers in sports all the time - on a real court on in the fantasy versions.  Those folks both make me angry and persistent so I blow through them and it becomes a bit of a thing to target them.  That leads to finding things like this forum and the video guys.  The Seal Clubbers made me want to become a Seal with a Club.  It is fun - even though some folks here are aggravated that schleps like me target them (although not - hopefully - in YOLO mode).



Sgt__Guffy #32 Posted Aug 11 2017 - 18:24

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View PostBossmanSlim, on Aug 11 2017 - 11:05, said:

 

I strongly disagree with this statement.  500 battles is the equivalent of 42 hours of play assuming 5 minute average game time.  That is longer than some entire single player games take and well into the amount of time any other game takes to determine if it scratches the fun itch or not.  Most games are really fun to start and then run downhill at the end due to the tedious or repetitive nature of the endgame.

 

My expectations is to have fun in the majority of the games win or loose.  This game is not fun for me the majority of the time for the reasons stated.  I should not have to invest 100s of hours in a game to find out that it is fun.  I had fun with EVE Online from the get go, even though that is one of the most tedious and boring games out there at times. Every other game I have played, I have had fun right out of the box and usually quit due to burn out.  Not WoT, I moved up some trees to see if it would ever be consistently fun and the answer I kept getting was "no".

 

  1. No thanks, I'll watch Twitch.  I don't need to spend my limited time available to actually play games watching others on my team act like morons.
  2. I have no intention to purchase a T8 premium because I know it is a pointless venture from WoWS and T8 MM sucks right now.
  3. I'd be fine with playing low tiers if not for the horrible imbalance and proliferance of seal clubbers.
  4. Let's see, almost all low tier tanks are lights, TDs or SPGs.  The play styles I have to choose from are artillery, which probably isn't the best thing for new players.  TDs, which need camo and experienced crews to do anything meaningful.  Lastly, I can play light tanks, which all have paper armor and it then becomes about picking the most OP one.  There are some mediums and heavies sprinkled in, but why would I grind something that isn't going to lead to an end goal tank?  Even I do find something I like, say a heavy, all the enemy has to do is press 2 and that's out the window.  Low tiers are playing the most OP light tank with an experienced crew and full upgrades.  That is what wins games.
  5. I didn't skip anything
  6. I am not complacent.  I have acknowledge the short comings of my WoT account.  I know what needs to be done to correct them, but I am not spending a dime nor going to grind thousands of games in the hopes that the game will be fun.

 

Fair enough, your mind is made up, I don't think I can help you any further.

OldFrog75 #33 Posted Aug 11 2017 - 18:38

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View PostBossmanSlim, on Aug 11 2017 - 18:05, said:

 

I am not complacent.  I have acknowledge the short comings of my WoT account.  I know what needs to be done to correct them, but I am not spending a dime nor going to grind thousands of games in the hopes that the game will be fun.

I think this pretty much says it all.  The motivation just isn't there so it really doesn't matter what suggestions any of us make.  



BossmanSlim #34 Posted Aug 11 2017 - 19:09

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View PostBoghie, on Aug 11 2017 - 18:18, said:

So you like games that offer lots of shooting and excitement or whatever but get boring and repetitive at higher tiers?  How much strategy is there in the equivalent of Tiers 1 - III/IV in WOW or some of the other games mentioned?  This is the only online game I've played so I really don't know and I have been thinking about playing WOW.  

 

WoT is a slowed down FPS game, where the amount of twitch needed to compete with other players is less, which allows other skills to be brought to the foreground to differentiate players.  I used to play Doom, Quake and Unreal, but as I have gotten older and some of the tentates of those games, like map control, have been removed, I have moved away from traditional FPS games.  Call of Duty and Battlefield play completely different from tanks because the players typically respawn in the same match and most kills are very fast.  WoT slows the game down because people can't dodge as easily, the shells have a flight time and the reload is fairly long by FPS standards.  WoT is about knowing match-ups and where to position on the map to get the best chance of a favorable match-up, with some elements of twitch.  WoT has RNG introduced to decrease the amount twitch skill can influence the game; if every shell went exactly where you aimed, all people would do is fire on the move at moving targets.

 

WoWS is slowed down some more because it is on a larger scale, but also removes some of the RNG.  Most engagements in WOWS take place at 10km or longer, so shells have a flight time and the more agile ships can dodge incoming fire.  Armor angling exists in the same manner as tanks, but most ships have all different kinds of armor, so they are rarely completely immune to enemy fire:


Main differences in WoWS and WoT:

  • WoWS aiming is more about leading your target to hit it all, more advanced players can lead to hit certain sections.  WoT is about hitting specific areas at close range or knowing how long to wait on your aim time before firing.
  • WoWS RNG is about how big the area is where the shells are going to land and chance of fire.  WoT RNG is about where the shells will hit, how much damage they will do and how much penetration the shell has.
  • WoWS is movement about continually being on the move to gain position; sniping a big problem, but the ships are at least moving.  WoT positioning is about a combination of camping and peek-a-boo.
  • WoWS has PvE in many forms.  WoT has first 10 battles, then nothing
  • WoWS zero skill captains move up to 6 points pretty quick.  WoT takes 10s of games for the crew to not be a detriment to the tank unless you want to spend gold and another 100 or so games to get a skill
  • WoWS sixth sense is free and instant
  • WoWS maps are more open and of course take place all on the same plane.  WoT maps are more easy to hide in and the map has to be used to generate an advantage if you expect to be good.
  • WoWS detection ranges are ship based, not enemy vs your skill based as in WoT.  No stealth firing in WoWS either.
  • I find the WoWS UI to be better
  • WoWS has no premium ammo.  In addition, to encourage players to switch ammo, AP can over penetrate, dealing less damage, while HE can shatter if it impacts thick armor.
  • No ship is WoWS is completely immune to any other ship in the game.  A T1 can inflict damage on a T10.
  • WoWS tiers are better balanced for tier to tier match ups.

 

I'd suggest you try ships.  Its free after all, so other than the download and initial play time, there isn't much investment.   The game introduces ships slowly, so no T1 ships seeing BBs or CVs.  T1 ships have been heavily nerfed to keep clubbers out of them, while T2-T3 ships don't make enough resources for most people to spend anytime in them.  T5 is the first pain point in the matchmaker because it is the first time ships can see +2 tiers.  



Darkbee2Bee #35 Posted Aug 11 2017 - 19:23

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You tried it.  You didn't like it.  You made some good points.  You're going to move on.

 

No hard feelings.

 

Good luck and have fun in whatever you play!



TankNoob1960 #36 Posted Aug 11 2017 - 19:30

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View PostBossmanSlim, on Aug 11 2017 - 06:55, said:

Whelp, I got my T34 premium tank, played one match in it and couple other in some other tanks and I'm done. WoWS released a new campaign and Path of Exile just put out the 3.0 update, so plenty do to other than play WoT.  I spent $40 on Path of Exile because they are being responsive to the player base, introducing new content and I feel the game is fair.  Had tanks caught my interest about a month ago and not made me feel like I was being tortured, they probably would have gotten that money.

 

Hmmmm. well I have only one thing to say about this pitiful rant...

WOWS is baby pablum compared to WOT.. Period.

WOWS has NO ELEVATION or MAP VARIANCE.

IT IS EASY compared to WOT.... SUPER EASY!

 

BTW....500 games is NOTHING.

"Quitters never win and winners never quit."

Nuff said.


Edited by TankNoob1960, Aug 11 2017 - 19:32.


Boghie #37 Posted Aug 11 2017 - 20:03

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Hey man, thanks for:

 

Block Quote

Main differences in WoWS and WoT:

  • WoWS aiming is more about leading your target to hit it all, more advanced players can lead to hit certain sections.  WoT is about hitting specific areas at close range or knowing how long to wait on your aim time before firing.
  • WoWS RNG is about how big the area is where the shells are going to land and chance of fire.  WoT RNG is about where the shells will hit, how much damage they will do and how much penetration the shell has.
  • WoWS is movement about continually being on the move to gain position; sniping a big problem, but the ships are at least moving.  WoT positioning is about a combination of camping and peek-a-boo.
  • WoWS has PvE in many forms.  WoT has first 10 battles, then nothing
  • WoWS zero skill captains move up to 6 points pretty quick.  WoT takes 10s of games for the crew to not be a detriment to the tank unless you want to spend gold and another 100 or so games to get a skill
  • WoWS sixth sense is free and instant
  • WoWS maps are more open and of course take place all on the same plane.  WoT maps are more easy to hide in and the map has to be used to generate an advantage if you expect to be good.
  • WoWS detection ranges are ship based, not enemy vs your skill based as in WoT.  No stealth firing in WoWS either.
  • I find the WoWS UI to be better
  • WoWS has no premium ammo.  In addition, to encourage players to switch ammo, AP can over penetrate, dealing less damage, while HE can shatter if it impacts thick armor.
  • No ship is WoWS is completely immune to any other ship in the game.  A T1 can inflict damage on a T10.
  • WoWS tiers are better balanced for tier to tier match ups.

 

That is a very good summary - and I will try WoWS.

 

By the way, it is also a good summary of some of the differences between ground and naval combat.  There are faults in both games though.  Peek 'A Boom does not happen in real tank combat and I don't think terrain (small islands and the like) play much of a role in real naval combat - both are there just to add a little strategery to the games.

 

Anyway, most of the visibility game you are talking about is vehicle generated - skills and perks play buff the basic tank's capabilities.  You just have to learn them to progress in Tier V on in WoT.  I have watched replays of WoWS where ships could not see the enemy hitting them outside view range.

 

Also, Peek 'A Boom is really only a HT game plan - with a little supporting action from MT/LT.  If you position for Peek 'A Boom against an HT in anything else as a primary tactic you will lose.  Do you send your destroyers and cruisers to face up with battleships or do you screen your heavies and provide support fire (torpedoes) from odd angles or at a distance?

 

Finally, you are 100% correct about skills - but I differ a bit.  Looking back I have to wonder about the 'mystery' behind tank training crew skills, and equipment.  That stuff should be adequately taught in a PvE environment and not be a 'mystery of the orient' for some schlub to figure out somewhere in Tiers III - V.  I mean, I think I finds some poor schubs in Tier V driving their new tank with no skills, 50% crews, and minimal - or the wrong - equipment for the tank.  That can't be fun, but you have to know how to find out what the weakness is before you can overcome it.  Also, there should be a good PvE for mid-tier schlubs like me who want to explore the maps, try new equipment, and maybe even train up a crew without harming teammates or hurting our 'very important' Win%.  I'm serious Pretty Color People - I really don't want to damage your gaming experience because I don't know Karkov and don't know the reload of my own tank.  Yowser...

 



BossmanSlim #38 Posted Aug 14 2017 - 12:32

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View PostBoghie, on Aug 11 2017 - 20:03, said:

1) Anyway, most of the visibility game you are talking about is vehicle generated - skills and perks play buff the basic tank's capabilities.  You just have to learn them to progress in Tier V on in WoT.  I have watched replays of WoWS where ships could not see the enemy hitting them outside view range.

 

2) Also, Peek 'A Boom is really only a HT game plan - with a little supporting action from MT/LT.  If you position for Peek 'A Boom against an HT in anything else as a primary tactic you will lose.  Do you send your destroyers and cruisers to face up with battleships or do you screen your heavies and provide support fire (torpedoes) from odd angles or at a distance?

 

3) Finally, you are 100% correct about skills - but I differ a bit.  Looking back I have to wonder about the 'mystery' behind tank training crew skills, and equipment.  That stuff should be adequately taught in a PvE environment and not be a 'mystery of the orient' for some schlub to figure out somewhere in Tiers III - V.  I mean, I think I finds some poor schubs in Tier V driving their new tank with no skills, 50% crews, and minimal - or the wrong - equipment for the tank.  That can't be fun, but you have to know how to find out what the weakness is before you can overcome it.  Also, there should be a good PvE for mid-tier schlubs like me who want to explore the maps, try new equipment, and maybe even train up a crew without harming teammates or hurting our 'very important' Win%.  I'm serious Pretty Color People - I really don't want to damage your gaming experience because I don't know Karkov and don't know the reload of my own tank.  Yowser...

 

 

  1. Firing with guns from open water while in stealth has been removed from the game relatively recently.  All ships are visible at their max range when they fire.  The only way to fire on an enemy ships  without being seen is to fire from smoke or over a hill/mountain; both of these situations restrict movement and attract torpedoes to flush ships out of their camping spots.  Destroyers can stealth fire torpedoes at various tiers depending on the nation.
  2. This is a difficult question to answer as dodging incoming fire is much more part of the game than in WoT.  Cruisers and DDs can dodge BB fire and return fire as long as they stay at stand off ranges.  On the other hand, DDs in particular can ambush BBs as they go around islands to take them out at close range.  The main issue is that BBs have the highest hit points and longest range, so bad players tend to snipe with them and don't support pushes.  Good BB players know when to push and use those advantages.  Ideally the DD and CV will perform scouting while the BBs push with cruiser support to take out DDs and assist with killing enemy ships.  What actually happens is DDs play spotting games with other DDs while CA/CLs and BBs cruise around at max range, cause DDs are scary, trying to snipe the enemy while taking no damage.  CVs will spend all game trying to rack up damage on BBs and ignore most other ships.  Eventually enough DDs will die that one side will have virtually none and the team with DDs will push and win.

 



_GeorgePreddy #39 Posted Aug 14 2017 - 13:09

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View PostBossmanSlim, on Jul 24 2017 - 12:58, said:

 

The BT-7 and PZ II are both light tanks, they are in the same class.  Let's do some comparison

 

The BT-7 has a maximum of 20 armor, while the PZ with the 2cm Flak 38 has a penetration value of 39, this means that unless the PZ is hitting substantially sloped armor and getting a bad roll, it is not going to bounce, never mind some stat padding troll using APCR with 51 penetration.  The PZ II can clip out a BT-7 in 11 seconds (3x full unloads of clip and 2x reloads).  It takes the BT-7 12 seconds to kill a PZ II, assuming 1 miss.  The PZ II has a 257 more DPM, so the BT-7 must be better at something in order for be balanced.

 

Gun handling - nope, PZ II is better in all aspects except elevation and dispersion, but it has a better aim time

Mobility - about equal in all categories except power to weight and track traverse, which means the BT-7 can run away faster if you are going up hill.  They are within 5 kph speed, so it is not like you can out run it like say a Matilda

Armor & health - nope, PZ II is better in all aspects except engine health

View & radio range - nope, PZ II is better in all aspects

 

But you say, the BT can take out other tanks that the PZ II can't because of its higher penetration of 58.  While this is sort of true and the BT-7 does up tier slightly better, running APCR cancels that out and the burst damage of the PZ II allows it to execute hit and run tactics while the BT-7 is playing peek-a-bo praying not to get derp gunned or tracked.

 

These two T3 light tanks are not balanced against each other, mainly because armor means nothing at T3, so high alpha guns work best (fast firing burst or derp)

 

 

Why are you so concerned with the "balance" of the BT-7 ?

 

If you are simply going through it to get higher tier Soviet light tanks, do your 10 to 20 battles in one session and move on.

 

If you are trying to enjoy staying in tier 3 for a while, choose a better tank.

 

Either way, problem solved.



angrybovine #40 Posted Aug 14 2017 - 18:29

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OP...who said all vehicles at a given tier have to have even chances 1v1 against each other?  Its not just low tiers where tank A is better than tank B.  Every tier is like that.

 

So is WoWs.  Every tier has a best in class\tier and a worst in class\tier with ships in between.

 

Understand that every 1v1 situation will have something A outclassed by same tier something B unless A and B is the same tank\ship\who cares. 

 

Every game I have ever seen has some feature\meta\unit that a skilled player will use to outclass someone else.  Every one that does not have mirror factions.  Every one.

 

Welcome to video games.






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