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9.20 Vehicle Balance Notes


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CabbageMechanic #1 Posted Jul 27 2017 - 21:27

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Update 9.20 contains a significant amount of vehicle rebalances spanning 5 Nations

Soviet Vehicles

As the game evolved, some Soviet tanks grew underwhelming, while the line’s expansion messed with the progression at higher tiers. Update 9.20 attempts to restore coherency throughout the Tech Tree with comprehensive changes to tank destroyers, medium, and heavy tanks.

 

Medium Tanks:

 

T-44, T-44/100, T-54 First Prototype: 

 

The T-44’s top turret received 200mm of effective armor on the turret front (previously 120–140mm) and up to 300mm of effective side armor, so it should no longer shy away from same-tier opponents and can

march on after a duel with enemies of higher tiers. The T-54 first prototype and Т-44-100 had their top turrets bolstered in just the same way. In addition, the gun choices didn’t really give you a sense of diverse gameplay. So we went on to tweak the 100mm LB-1 and the122mm D-25-44 guns. The 122mm got a boost in fire rate and is now the alpha-brawling gun of choice. The 100mm now has a better chance at making successful shots when firing on the move and while standing, thanks to improved stabilization and aiming time. It’ll shine in more careful mid-range engagements. 

 



T-54

 

The intimidating tier IX T-54 can put virtually any medium tank to shame. However, its tough and angular turret lost some of its value with time, and the T-54 doesn’t feel as good as it used to in mid- and long-distance engagements. We strengthened its turret armor (the area by the gun mantlet) to restore its confidence.

Also, the T-54’s top guns were revised to stress the difference in advancing from the T-54 to the T-62A or to the Object 140. The T-62A with its better aim and gun handling is unlocked with the 100mm D-54, which suits mid to long-range gameplay. The Object 140 is more mid- to close-range and thus is unlocked with the close-quarter combat style D-10T2S. We also took the opportunity to buff the turret to allow the T-54 to up its competitive ability.

Object 140

The blend of decent speed, easy gun handling, and solid protection make the tier X Object 140 extremely versatile — it can do anything from scouting to flanking. However, its weak turret roof is way too easy to overmatch and spoils an otherwise great picture. To fix it, we increased its turret roof armor thickness to the level of the T-62A. Note though, that vulnerable hatches remain. Be careful when you take the rebalanced Object 140 for a stroll, or you may end up with a face full of AP real quick.

 

Heavy Tanks:

 

IS-7

 

Update 9.20 sets the course for the Soviet heavy tank revision with the rebalance of the IS-7. Poor gun handling and moderate accuracy made it unfeasible for it to land a precise shot, especially on the move, and often left a player feeling outclassed by almost every other tier x heavy tank. To give the IS-7 a much-needed leg-up, we reduced its aiming time, and dispersion on the move and from the turret. This should allow it to fully realize its firepower, while the 2,400 HP will ensure its longevity. Together, these changes are designed to stress the IS-7’s role as a close-range breakthrough vehicle that can effectively lead an attack.

Moving forward, we’ll be making a stronger distinction between the IS and KV lines. Our goal is bringing the KV lines back into relevance and cementing their role as powerful, well-protected damage dealers.

 

Tank Destroyers:

 

Although there are two lines of Soviet TDs, most players would play the one that leads to Object 268; and within that, a disproportional amount of people stop at the ISU-152 or go on to unlock the tier X Object 268 and then never play it. It was clear that we needed to give a real reason to unlock and play the Object 268. To do that, we had to rebalance the ISU-152, and that was always going to be tricky. The solution was to keep the fearsome alpha of the ISU-152, but reduce its penetration compensating for it with added mobility and larger HP. This then allowed us to improve the Object 704 and ultimately get a better set of stats for the Object 268 at Tier X.

ISU-152

If you look at the ISU-152, it’s a great point-blank “boom” TD; the Object 704 is a lot like the ISU-152 but stronger, while the Object 268 looks somewhat lackluster in this trio. We needed the road to the Object 268 to make more sense and started by replacing its top BL-10 gun with the 152mm D-4S. It’s similar to the BL-10 in every parameter except for slightly lower penetration (260mm). It still allows the ISU-152 to be that “boom” TD, but it also gives us a little room to improve its armor, increase HP and give it higher mobility. Aside from that, the ISU-152 will also lose some 122mm guns, which will make it easier to research its top gun.

If you haven’t researched the top gun yet and use the 122mm BL-9S, you’ll get the new top gun at the release of 9.20.

 

Object 704

 

The fearsome tier IX Object 704 adds an alternative gun, the 152mm D-4S, while keeping the mighty BL-10 as its top option, bringing more versatility to its gameplay.

Object 268

To make the tier X a fitting reward for working all the way to the end of the line, we boosted its AP shell speed from 760m/s to 950m/s, while also bringing its gun depression on par with the Object 704. This should make it more efficient at hitting enemies at range and destroying moving targets.

 

 

French Vehicles

 

Once great, the French line is now a shadow of its former self: its TDs have been crippled to the point no one wants to unlock them, while the АМХ 30 and AMX 30 B play the same as the German Leopard 1 and Leopard Prototyp A. We attempt to bring it back to relevance with 9.20:

  • We rebalanced tier IX and X medium tanks so they play as mid-range sniper support, lending them a unique look and feel.  To let its TDs work wonders again, we leaned into what the French line likes to do and gave them autoloaders that matter. We also fixed the imbalance in mobility and the inconsistency with their armor and weak spots.

 

Medium Tanks:

 

АМХ 30 and AMX 30 B

The АМХ 30 and AMX 30 B getting more resilient thanks to significantly reinforced turret armor and can leverage uneven terrain to pick off enemies. Be mindful that the hull stays thin and vulnerable to enemy shells.

The two also receive better gun stabilization, which, paired with their decent speed and maneuverability, lets them move across the battlefield quickly and bring their guns to places they are needed. Regarding guns, the АМХ 30 and AMX 30 B now sport the best damage per minute of all medium tanks. So you can get the jump on your enemies, shell out large damage, and duck back behind cover. To make them most efficient at mid-range, we slightly reduced their accuracy and penetration with AP shells.

 

We know how many of you hold the Bat.-Châtillon 25 t. dear. So do we! Upon considering your feedback on the changes we planned to introduce, we took a step back to review the testing results and didn't find a solid enough reason to rebalance this treasured vehicle. We will leave it unchanged for now.

Heavy Tanks:

AMX 50-100

The AMX 50-100 sports superb mobility combined with impressive damage potential. However, it often fails to leverage these in combat due to a large profile and vulnerable hull armor. 9.20 bolsters the AMX 50-100’s durability and chances at making an impact with a noticeable improvement to gun depression. Now it can rain destruction from behind the hills, keeping its massive, poorly-protected hull safe from enemy shells.

Tank Destroyers:

We wanted to make autoloaders a signature feature of Tier VIII–X French TDs, so we added an autoloader for the AMX AC mle. 48 and AMX 50 Foch.

AMX AC mle. 48 and AMX 50 Foch

The AMX 50 Foch (tier IX) gets a four-round 120mm autoloader gun with an average alpha damage of 400. The AMX AC mle. 48 now packs a three-round 120mm autoloader with the same 400 average alpha. Furthermore, the two TDs now sport side armor thick enough to bounce enemy shells. The AMX AC mle. 48 also benefits from a slight boost in mobility, while the AMX 50 Foch gets its mobility reduced a bit.

AMX 50 Foch (155)

The AMX 50 Foch (155) is definitely a keeper. Although it developed a few weaknesses over the years and pales in comparison to other top-tier TDs, it can be seen rolling down the battlefields every once in while. At the same time, following the tweaks to Tiers VIII–IX, this TD became unfit for the top Tier, which created a dilemma. Many players in the community have a soft spot for the AMX 50 Foch (155) and removing it from the game would make no one happy. It took us a while, but we found a way out that should give the revised TD line a Tier X to match, and leave the good ol’ Foch (155) in the roster.

Starting in 9.20, the AMX 50 Foch (155) becomes a special vehicle, while a completely new TD, the AMX 50 Foch B, rolls out on tier X. Basically, this newcomer is a revised version of the AMX 50 Foch (155), equipped with a six-round 120mm autoloader capable of dealing 400 alpha damage instead of the 155 gun. It is also reinforced with better side and front armor. Due to a low silhouette, the AMX 50 Foch (155) used to have fairly poor gun depression and elevation, limiting the tank’s usefulness. We increased both to boost its effectiveness on uneven terrain.

AMX 50 Foch B

Let's explain some purely technical details of the transition:

What's with the AMX 50 Foch's (155) combat parameters?

It benefits from the same set of improvements the new Tier X received (except for the gun; it retains the 155mm autoloader): its front and side armor got thicker and gun depression and elevation went up a few degrees.

How can you get the AMX 50 Foch B and the AMX 50 Foch (155)?

If you researched and purchased the AMX 50 Foch (155), it remains in your Garage, changing its status to a special vehicle, and you also get the AMX 50 Foch B.  If you researched but haven't purchased it just yet, you have until 9.20's launch to do so.  Lastly, if you're in the process of researching it, you have to hurry, as the AMX 50 Foch (155) won't be available for purchase after 9.20.

What stays on the AMX 50 Foch (155)?

It keeps its battle statistics, XP, acheivements, medals, and marks of excellence.

What gets transferred to the AMX 50 Foch B?
 
All customization items (camo, emblems, and inscriptions) go to the AMX 50 Foch B for their remaining duration.  The AMX 50 Foch's (155) Crew gets retrained for the AMX 50 Foch B. Since the AMX 50 Foch (155) has a special status, you can recruit a Crew from any French TD without penalty.

What about rounds and equipment?

Shells were removed, but feat not; you'll get the full amount of Credits they cost you credited to your account.  Equipment gets de-mounted and moved to Storage, and you can use it on any other vehicle.

 

German Vehicles

Heavy Tanks:

Mäuschen

The tier IX Mäuschen doesn’t require any major balance tweaks, except one: it was proving to be frustrating in its standard configuration, so we gave it more mobility, making it more enjoyable to play. This should also streamline the progression down the Maus line.

Maus

The Maus returned to its position as the great damage-soaking fortress. However, in our eagerness to improve the tank we went a little too far with its damage output. We wanted to retain its powerhouse nature, while also shining a little spotlight on the E100. So we cut its HP pool and slowed down its reload speed. While this superheavy won’t deal as much damage as it used to, these changes shouldn’t affect its overall gameplay. It remains an armored fortress.

 

Tank Destroyers:

 

8.8cm Pak 43 Jagdtiger

The fast-firing and accurate 8,8 cm Pak 43 Jagdtiger used to disappoint in the mobility department, making it difficult to get the best out of it. When help was needed on the opposite flank, this TD couldn't cover the distance in time. We ramped up the 8.8cm Pak 43 Jagdtiger’s mobility, enabling it to reach the fight in enough time to be useful. This should create a more rewarding experience where you decide when to start racking up damage, instead of waiting for the enemy to close the distance

 

American Medium Tanks

The M48A1 Patton and M46 Patton are loved by veteran players. At one point, they dominated the battlefield. However, over time, they fell out of favor and survivability. The weakened turret wasn’t strong enough to reward good ridge and hill play. The cupola was also too easy to target. We gave them a new turret with a smaller cupola and better protection to make them a dangerous weapon in the hands of experts again.

 

Japanese Heavy Tanks:

The Japanese heavy line called for a refocus and rebalance from tier V all the way to tier X. We put balance and complementary gameplay styles at the center of design, tweaking its every vehicle with the only exception of the O-Ni. These changes should give the superheavies a feel of their own: more “break out and assault” in style with great frontal armor and two choices of gun styles.

 

O-I Exp

 

The huge-for-tier-V penetration with the 105mm gun made the O-I Experimental. a one-shotting monster. We removed it, which should encourage players develop a more elaborate battle plan than peek-a-boom. Mobility takes a hit as well, but the tank receives a considerable addition to its frontal armor thickness. This should even the odds against higher tiers, bringing its gameplay more in line with the rest of the Japanese heavies.

O-I

If you ever crossed paths with the tier VI O-I while playing a lower tier, you should know how terribly difficult it was to break through its thick armor. Even flanking wouldn’t work. Update 9.20 cuts down on its rear armor thickness ramping up your chances at outflanking it.

O-Ho

Tank guns should offer an incremental benefit or a different play style. For example, the 10cm Experimental Tank Gun Kai was supposed to offer the O-Ho a faster firing gun with lower alpha than the 15cm. Going with the upgraded option, you benefited from 30 more damage and could punch through higher tier tanks, aiming carefully at weak spots. However, when the battle is raging you don't always have time to take careful aim and would rather use Premium ammo to damage a higher tier before this opportunity disappears. The O-Ho's 10cm gun didn't offer this choice — now it does.

Type 4 and Type 5 Heavy

The tweaks the Type 4 and Type 5 Heavy received back in 9.17.1 fared well — at least partially. Once sluggish and vulnerable to their peers, these tanks went away with a significantly thicker frontal plate which, together with a boost in firepower, carved them a spot among heavies. However, we admit we went a bit too far with the armor. These two have almost no weak spots on the front, which made them immune to damage from tier VII–VIII vehicles. To restore the balance, we revised their frontal armor, adding several thinner areas (240–260mm for Tier X and 220–240mm for tier IX). 


Edited by CabbageMechanic, Jul 27 2017 - 21:28.


Scorpiany #2 Posted Jul 27 2017 - 21:34

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If the T-54 "can put any tank to shame", then why on earth is it getting such a huge buff to its turret? Come on WarGaming...

 

And a 260mm thick spot on the Type 5 Heavy isn't a weakspot unless you're a TD or shoot Premium rounds.



madogthefirst #3 Posted Jul 27 2017 - 21:36

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Seriously why is every medium getting turret buffs to be comparable to the Maus? The only one I agree with is the M48, all others are just questionable.

55tanki #4 Posted Jul 27 2017 - 21:37

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It has come to my attention that there will be various vehicle rebalances included in update 9.20.  Included in these rebalances, Soviet mediums are receiving a buff to turret armor to cement their roles as active MTs as the have grown underwhelming due to addition of other more powerful tank lines as the game progressed.  The specific tanks receiving this buff are the T-44, T-54 first prototype, T-44-100, T-54. and the Object 140.  However, in my humble opinion, lower tier russian mediums such as the T-43 and the KV-13 have also  become quite underwhelming over the past few months.  They have lackluster mobility compared to the Comet and Leo and poor penetration and damage on their top-gun compared to the T20 and T-34-100.  Additionally, their armor is not stacking up to be as effective as it used to be.  As such, I am proposing that various buffs should be applied to the KV-13 and the T-43 as part of this balancing patch.  The two tanks should receive a better top gun as the average penetration of 144 in AP rounds is nigh useless in tier VIII-IX matches where they are often matched up in.  This could be in the form of the 85 mm D-10-85 that is currently unique to the LTTB or the 100 mm D10T of the T-43.  The latter of which could even help streamline research when progressing from tier VII to tier VIII.  Also, a buff to the side armor covered by the tracks to the KV-13 would help reaffirm its role as a brawling MT.  Increasing the side armor of the KV-13 all to 115mm would allow to sidescrape and increase its versatility.  Lastly, the turret armor of the T-43 could stand to be increased similarly to the T-44 to allow it to perform better in hull down situations.  These previously stated changes will help balance the KV-13 and the T-43 and make them more fun to play and I hope that you (Esteemed Wargaming Employee) will consider implementing them as part of the 9.20 Update Balances.

 

Thank you for taking your time to read this,



Xx1Tommy1xX #5 Posted Jul 27 2017 - 21:38

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Why is the WT auf E-100 in the Chinese patch notes?

Angthalion #6 Posted Jul 27 2017 - 21:41

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The T-54 is already in an extremely good position armour-wise as is. I get the gun changes, those are nice, but the armour buffs are over the top. The T-54 is already powerful in that regard, don't buff it even more. It's not supposed to have the effective armour of a heavy.

Xx1Tommy1xX #7 Posted Jul 27 2017 - 21:42

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View PostAngthalion, on Jul 27 2017 - 15:41, said:

The T-54 is already in an extremely good position armour-wise as is. I get the gun changes, those are nice, but the armour buffs are over the top. The T-54 is already powerful in that regard, don't buff it even more. It's not supposed to have the effective armour of a heavy.

Might as well change the class from MT to MBT 



CabbageMechanic #8 Posted Jul 27 2017 - 21:48

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View Post55tanki, on Jul 27 2017 - 12:37, said:

It has come to my attention that there will be various vehicle rebalances included in update 9.20.  Included in these rebalances, Soviet mediums are receiving a buff to turret armor to cement their roles as active MTs as the have grown underwhelming due to addition of other more powerful tank lines as the game progressed.  The specific tanks receiving this buff are the T-44, T-54 first prototype, T-44-100, T-54. and the Object 140.  However, in my humble opinion, lower tier russian mediums such as the T-43 and the KV-13 have also  become quite underwhelming over the past few months.  They have lackluster mobility compared to the Comet and Leo and poor penetration and damage on their top-gun compared to the T20 and T-34-100.  Additionally, their armor is not stacking up to be as effective as it used to be.  As such, I am proposing that various buffs should be applied to the KV-13 and the T-43 as part of this balancing patch.  The two tanks should receive a better top gun as the average penetration of 144 in AP rounds is nigh useless in tier VIII-IX matches where they are often matched up in.  This could be in the form of the 85 mm D-10-85 that is currently unique to the LTTB or the 100 mm D10T of the T-43.  The latter of which could even help streamline research when progressing from tier VII to tier VIII.  Also, a buff to the side armor covered by the tracks to the KV-13 would help reaffirm its role as a brawling MT.  Increasing the side armor of the KV-13 all to 115mm would allow to sidescrape and increase its versatility.  Lastly, the turret armor of the T-43 could stand to be increased similarly to the T-44 to allow it to perform better in hull down situations.  These previously stated changes will help balance the KV-13 and the T-43 and make them more fun to play and I hope that you (Esteemed Wargaming Employee) will consider implementing them as part of the 9.20 Update Balances.

 

Thank you for taking your time to read this,

 

Thanks for taking the time to write it - the focus is currently on higher tiers but other changes are always possible.

 

View PostXx1Tommy1xX, on Jul 27 2017 - 12:38, said:

Why is the WT auf E-100 in the Chinese patch notes?

 

Where exactly?  The T10 Chinese TD is the WZ-113G FT.

-edit- Found it.  I can't speak for China, that's their business.

Edited by CabbageMechanic, Jul 27 2017 - 21:51.


galspanic #9 Posted Jul 27 2017 - 21:48

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View Postmadogthefirst, on Jul 27 2017 - 12:36, said:

Seriously why is every medium getting turret buffs to be comparable to the Maus? The only one I agree with is the M48, all others are just questionable.

 

To cut down on auto-aimers and encourage actual aiming?

madogthefirst #10 Posted Jul 27 2017 - 21:55

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View Postgalspanic, on Jul 27 2017 - 12:48, said:

To cut down on auto-aimers and encourage actual aiming?

Autoaim does not aim for turrets, it normally aims at the hull.



CapPhrases #11 Posted Jul 27 2017 - 21:56

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hmm French TD's getting a buff?

now i just have to hope for British heavies!



DyN4sT3R #12 Posted Jul 27 2017 - 21:58

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Hi, Can you rebalance STB-1 please? This tank dont have the stats to fight again other medium tier 10 ! and its gonna be worst with this patch !

dispersion


Edited by DyN4sT3R, Jul 27 2017 - 22:00.


CapPhrases #13 Posted Jul 27 2017 - 21:58

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View Postmadogthefirst, on Jul 27 2017 - 15:36, said:

Seriously why is every medium getting turret buffs to be comparable to the Maus? The only one I agree with is the M48, all others are just questionable.

 

yeah giving every medium the same playstyle is just stale. they need to be different by doing different things better than each other. giving them the same strengths is just lazy.

YANKEE137 #14 Posted Jul 27 2017 - 22:04

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I don't think that it would be appropriate to give tier ten armor buffs to the T95E2 or the 59 Patton but could  you possibly consider taking off the top turret weak spot?

Weino #15 Posted Jul 27 2017 - 22:24

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While you are adjusting the 30 line of the French high tier mediums, rearrange the tree a bit so that players that went from low tier French mediums into heavy can roll back into the AMX 30 line mediums at high tier.

Make the 30 at tier 9 accessible from both the BC 12 t and the 50 100.

Adjusted Tree - 
http://i.imgur.com/LUr9slf.png

TheVahl #16 Posted Jul 27 2017 - 23:08

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So, when are you changing the game name to World of Soviet Tanks?

Doomslinger #17 Posted Jul 27 2017 - 23:11

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When will my T67 get a buff, it really could use it. I would like a return to it having 370 m view range again and buff the accuracy to .38 since it is supposed to be a td for sniping. Can't snipe well with .41 accuracy.

CuriousCarpet #18 Posted Jul 27 2017 - 23:31

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If there winds up being some sort of FAQ on these changes, I'd love an answer to this.

 

Why not give the Foch the choice of either gun, since the rest of the tank will be pretty much identical?  There's absolutely no way I'll be able to grind it out at this time and having a French tank be permanently missable is upsetting.



cartmans_rage #19 Posted Jul 28 2017 - 00:15

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Hello,

 

I am really happy you are not nerfing the BC25T, with the introduction of tier 10 lights its one of the only things that keeps them in moderate check



_mlg_taco_fire_ #20 Posted Jul 28 2017 - 00:30

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So what's the point of the t-62a, it has nothing over the obj 140 except for minus 1 hatch

 

- its faster

 

- better armour

 

-better flexibility with it's better depressi


Edited by _mlg_taco_fire_, Aug 02 2017 - 05:05.





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