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9.20 Vehicle Balance Notes


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Drseckzytime #41 Posted Jul 28 2017 - 06:50

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In retrospective, all these "balances" are completely counter to that damage control video you made a while back.  Now you're going to have to fling even more premium ammo around.


Well played WG.. You really are turning into the car salespeople of gaming.  Unbelievable.



reaper_swpz #42 Posted Jul 28 2017 - 06:56

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So to "balance" Japanese heavies, they now have "weakspots" of 220-240mm at tier 9 and 240-260mm at tier 10.

 

Average penetration of tier 9 guns without premium ammo is in the range of 220. What weakspots?

Average penetration of tier 10 guns without premium ammo is in the range of 250. What weakspots?

 

Seriously.

 

Then we have the MT turret buffs all around. 250-300mm EA? So American and French MT basically have Soviet MT turrets now, but with better dispersion and gun depression? Well on the bright side so much for Russian bias. Germans and the Japanese get the short end of the stick as well.

 

Guess premium ammo will be the standard after these "rebalances" as standard ammunition simply has no chance of doing crapall.


Edited by reaper_swpz, Jul 28 2017 - 07:02.


SkyhawkA4 #43 Posted Jul 28 2017 - 07:35

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So tier 10 arty will still have less hit points than tier 6 lights? Their ability to defend themselves was taken away but they can still be one shotted by just about anything they match up against.  A bit hypocritical.

Edited by SkyhawkA4, Jul 28 2017 - 07:39.


lieutenent_armand #44 Posted Jul 28 2017 - 09:14

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View PostTahllol, on Jul 28 2017 - 02:57, said:

The changes to the Russian Heavy are a complete joke, the gun and lack of armor were both issues. Basically every gun on the field can pen the damn IS7 easily including its turret. Overall the tank is a joke compared to any other heavy tank out except the Ammo rack plagued American tanks. Basically this patch is another joke towards the Russian heavies.

 

 

 

I have to agree with the above poster.  The biggest issue with the IS7 is it's weak gun and armour against all other heavy tanks.  It's no match against an E5 for instance.  It doesn't help if you can aim faster (faster reload would be better than faster aiming) , but you cannot penetrate so easily like other heavies, or that your armour is so weak compared like other heavies ...

 

Please Wargaming, rather buff the gun and armour of the IS7 so it can match the other heavy tanks in battle !  At the moment it is a weakling and it is not fun anymore playing it against other heavy tanks..



lieutenent_armand #45 Posted Jul 28 2017 - 09:22

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View Postpredatruite, on Jul 28 2017 - 05:06, said:

 

Wait they will buff its turret soon to make it more competitive ;)

 

 

Will this be included in the 9.20 patch ?  I certainly hope so, as it seems that just about everything these days can penetrate the turret of an IS 7 ...:(

madogthefirst #46 Posted Jul 28 2017 - 10:52

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View PostCraftedMc, on Jul 27 2017 - 18:31, said:

Why are y'all buffing all the most popular tanks?  The T-54 is good the way it is, it doesn't need a buff.  The AMX-30 and 30b is good for the armor buff, but why gave it the best dpm in the entire tier 10 medium tank lines; that would make the STB-1 redundant.   I understand the M-48 and M-46 need a turret armor buff, but why you guys have to reduce the size of the commander's hatch; like you might as well spam gold at it's turret anyways.  The so call weak spots of the Type 4 and Type 5 are not weak spots.  The Type 4 for example, got 240mm and 250mm, many tier 9 and some tier 10 tanks can't even penetrate it let alone tier 7s and 8s, thus forces us to spam gold.  Same goes for the Type 5 as well.  Instead of patching all the popular and most played tanks, why not buff the tanks that isn't performing well.  For example, the tier 8 Chinese medium, T-34-2, under performs compared to the other tier 8 mediums.  Also fix the broken tanks in the game like the Type 4 and Type 5, people do is just spam gold HE at people to do extra damage.  I know that premium ammo is silver, but still, it's basically pay to win.  80% of players never make credits when they play tanks.  I'm just asking you guys to fix what is wrong with the game instead of making things worse.  I would also like to add a suggestion to rebalance premium ammo.  Like all the ammo costs the same, but have it's benefits and draw backs.   For example, APCR does lots more penetration, but less damage, HEAT does more damage but reduced pen and spaced armor and what not, regular AP have standard pen and damage, and finally HE can do what HE do in the past.  I hope that you guys read this and hopefully implement or even consider some of my suggestions.

No the M48 needed the buffs, the M46 is perfect the way it is. I'll take what buffs I can get for it but it ain't really needed.



reaper_swpz #47 Posted Jul 28 2017 - 11:41

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Pertaining to the IS-7, mobility was never an issue, the issue is the pathetic armor and gun.

 

The armor's problem is that it depends on being pointed directly at the enemy without any angling - thus also exposing that massive LFP for anyone to shoot at. The only time they're effective is if you're facehugging an opponent of the same height and the only shots they can throw are into your UFP straight on or turret. That's the only time IS-7's armor is effective. If the opponent's tank is taller (say a Maus or an E100), they can shoot right down into your UFP, negating all the angles and go through without issue.  The fact of the matter is, there aren't many maps where you can hide your LFP and point straight on without having shots fly perpendicular to your pike. This is the primary reason why IS-7 has crap protection and can be damaged by anything. With all these new tanks rocking 290+ penetration, this problem becomes very apparent. Even against legacy tanks like the E5, IS-7 loses by a huge margin. Having 150mm base thickness is the problem here, fire from any angle but head on will likely penetrate without issue.

 

The gun, with the gun it's an all encompassing problem. It's got crap aim time, crap accuracy and crap penetration - all for... nothing. It doesn't get any substantial alpha boost over its peers (the gun on the Maus for example does the same damage despite being 2mm smaller), it doesn't get better aiming or accuracy, nor does it get better dispersion or reload. With gold factored in, the IS-7's gold has the least amount of penetration of all tier 10 HT (aside from the type 5, but the type 5 can fire OP HE so it's a moot point). The closest to the IS-7s gun is the WZ-111 5A, however, that gun has 340 penetration on the gold, and far better stats. In short, one could argue that the IS-7 has basically the worst HT gun at tier 10 currently. Will buffing stats like aiming and dispersion do? Probably not, you can hit, but with 250, you aren't damaging anything often.

 

Like a type 5's 260mm "weakspots", that will laugh at any and all IS-7 shots (without gold).


Edited by reaper_swpz, Jul 28 2017 - 12:05.


teamoldmill #48 Posted Jul 28 2017 - 12:47

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View PostDrseckzytime, on Jul 28 2017 - 00:50, said:

Tier 8 is unplayable at the moment, all yesterday I got one match as top tier.

 

Also, no buffs to the Leopard 1 when you're buffing everything else (RU meds/heavies LOLOLOLOL) and it needs them badly.  Good jerb as usual, WG.

 

Isn't this funny? Indien-PTA-Leo line is one of the worst progressions in the game. Germans finally got a winner with the Maus and it gets nerfed... fair enough. Take the Maus and that stupid Scorpion away and most of the rest completely stink. So now the KV line will get buffed... Tiger II says hello from the bottom of tier 8. TDs as a whole(couple exemptions), unless they have a turret are complete garbage. Bragging about making the JT 88 be able to relocate better with 4 degrees of hull traverse buff..... joke.

PANICWAVE #49 Posted Jul 28 2017 - 12:49

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View Post_mlg_taco_fire_, on Jul 28 2017 - 00:30, said:

Is there a date as to when this patch will happen, if so I'll rush towards the Foch 155. 

 

if you are not at tier vlll then dont even try

Imglidinhere #50 Posted Jul 28 2017 - 13:07

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View PostFinnegan_Gromyko, on Jul 27 2017 - 18:35, said:

Great decision on cancelling the nerf of the Bat Chat. I'm sure you've made a lot of players really happy, not least because it shows WG is listening to the supertesters on key specific tanks and nothing else. Plus One!

 

 

 

FTFY



arunvarun #51 Posted Jul 28 2017 - 13:46

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View Post9Spawn, on Jul 28 2017 - 10:02, said:

Okay all med getting buffs but what about Obj.430 the less used tank and what about E50M will no lenger be the hard tanky med just and other med tank compared this buffed meds.:izmena: i demand a buff to this two or lower the crazy blanced buffs on ther meds rly Wargaming :facepalm:

 

u forgot 121 and leo

General_von_Falkenhayn #52 Posted Jul 28 2017 - 13:54

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Soviet meds definitely did not need a buff.

 

No objections to making the French TDs somewhat more attractive again, but I remember a time when the Foch 155 was literally out-of-control OP.  It was nerfed to oblivion for a reason.  It's a fine line now: A well-armored (ie, with side armor that can't be overmatched anymore), fast, versatile autoloader now with a 6-round drum: This could be a serious problem.

 

Maus: Ah, it was nice while it was lasted.  Though I will say some kind of a tone-down was warranted.  It's outperforming just about everyone.  The 3200 HP PLUS gold-resistant armor PLUS gun handling PLUS DPM... it was too much.  Personally I'm fine with lowering the DPM.  The tank should be more of a damage-soaker than a damage dealer.  But lowering the HP... not sure about that one.  Maus was irrelevant for so long, it needed the overbuff to be revived.  Now it's a delicate task not to put it in the ground again.

 

JT88: Just retire it already.  It's obsolete.  Bring in the JT (H) to replace it and be done with it.  Mobility is not the issue with the JT88.  Mobility was already buffed a while back and it didn't help.  The problem is that you need long fields of fire with the JT88 and targets that obligingly stay out in the open so you can use the low alpha/high RoF.  That used to be possible with the tank lineup/map design/regular ammo meta of 2012.  It's not possible anymore.  Plus the JT88 had workable armor in 2012.  Now, everything in the tiers it faces (well, maybe not 6s) can pen the upper hull, and it often does not have enough gun depression to use its superstructure.  Finally, 203 pen is barely enough these days in a Tier 8/9 battle unless you can flank.  And how many JT88s do you see pulling dating flanking maneuvers with Soviet meds? 

 

Personally, I think the only thing that would help the JT88 now would be 10 degrees of gun depression, since now every map is a maze of trenches and ditches.  Really, though, it just needs to go.  Good bye, old friend.

 

Japanese heavies: Well, those weakspots will make them slightly less survivable, but hitting them won't be all that easy.  It'll come down to RNG deciding whether you're allowed to hit them.  Then again, weakspots weren't really the issue on Japanese heavies.  What do you do when you see a Type 4 or 5?  You just load gold and shoot something flat.  It's what you do.  It's not skill, it's just cause/effect.  WG, nobody really uses regular ammo anyway at Tier 9/10 anyway, so stop balancing things around it.

 

So many other lines need help.  Especially the poor British TDs like the AT-7 and AT-15.  Tortoise, too.  20kmh and armor balanced around 2013 meta ain't doing it anymore.   And please help the Caernarvon.  

 



cardona3 #53 Posted Jul 28 2017 - 13:58

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 "while also shining a little spotlight on the E100" But you havn't done anything to the E100, You have buffed the crap out of the Maus, but shown no love to the E100 as far as armor buffs, its gun is great, finally. And as far as the buffing of Russian tanks, how about showing some love to I don't know say the IS-6? I needs some kind of Penetration buff. 217 pen for a "gold" round is crap. And you still sell it in the store and hasn't been buffed ( to my knowledge) since its creation, it didn't need it back in the day, but you have buffed other older prems in the past, Super P. and even buffed the pen on the STA-2 as well. I understand that it only meets tier 9..and that's fine, as long as your not facing say..ST-I, Mauscherien or however you spell it hell even the VK is hard to pen with gold at times. Just saying that old boy needs to love, if there is no future thoughts of buffing it, is there a way I can trade it in? For like..I dunno a Defender?

 



Tahllol #54 Posted Jul 28 2017 - 14:08

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View Postpredatruite, on Jul 28 2017 - 06:06, said:

 

Wait they will buff its turret soon to make it more competitive ;)

 

 

They are not buffing the turret they are buffing the aim time and dispersion rate. The pathetic armor is not changing so in close/med/far combat you are still going to get slaughtered thanks to basically zero armor at tier 10.

killer1074 #55 Posted Jul 28 2017 - 14:26

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So if the M48 Patton Turret is getting buffed and is getting a smaller cupola, does the same apply to the 59-Patton, seeing as it shares the same turret? Because that cupola is a killer for it.

Sweet_Mayhem #56 Posted Jul 28 2017 - 14:28

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i love how the two first scary tanks at tier 10, the is7 and the e100 are still in the game. but come on, prior to this update the is7 was the better tank. so why did they buff it and give no love to the e100. i absolutely hate Russian bias 

killer1074 #57 Posted Jul 28 2017 - 14:31

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View Postarunvarun, on Jul 28 2017 - 13:46, said:

 

u forgot 121 and leo

 

​121, e50m both just got buffs in the german patch and last patch. Leo does need a buff tho, and 430 is still OP.

Grakon #58 Posted Jul 28 2017 - 14:37

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"With major work on the matchmaker and artillery out of the way, "

 

Well I'm glad they have taken care of the matchmaker and arty issues, (NOTE) first line of the update notes lets you know its going to be a load of crap. 



blazer285 #59 Posted Jul 28 2017 - 14:52

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Wow I need to reasearch the fosh 155 right now but wg won't out a do conversion sale on

TETRISHERMIT #60 Posted Jul 28 2017 - 15:38

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257 penetration on a tier X tank destroyer just sounds horrible.  Why ever play a Foch 50 B over batchat?




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