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The Great MM Debate: 3/5/7 Trash or Triumph?

MM 3/5/7 match maker matchmaker

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LpBronco #1001 Posted Dec 16 2018 - 19:14

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Expanded options are better but still don't rise to competence ... with the caveat that whatever dynamic they are using to determine queue demands may give us something less predictable. (I really think they were trying to show us how good we had it with something that the player base had asked for and then found to be wanting.) Again, I'm as concerned with the major game rebalance they are attempting with premium rounds and fearful of how many more they will alienate with this decision.  If they attempt this rebalance without expanding the tier base to give more cover to the discrepancies between  tanks then they are going to accentuate the differences without any way to mitigate the damage. 

Liberty75 #1002 Posted Dec 16 2018 - 20:07

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It is still the MM for me LP. Having premium rounds retain their high penetration, yet do less damage seems viable. I'm guessing and obviously biased when it comes this comment: I think the MM changes along with easier ways to earn credits (reserves and special events) encouraged a high use of gold ammo. I can't help but see the 9.18 Update as the turning point with a lot of the negative changes that have developed in the game since then. There are other factors. The 9.18 Update just seems like the biggest one.

DrWho_ #1003 Posted Dec 16 2018 - 21:30

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View PostLiberty75, on Dec 16 2018 - 20:07, said:

It is still the MM for me LP. Having premium rounds retain their high penetration, yet do less damage seems viable. I'm guessing and obviously biased when it comes this comment: I think the MM changes along with easier ways to earn credits (reserves and special events) encouraged a high use of gold ammo. I can't help but see the 9.18 Update as the turning point with a lot of the negative changes that have developed in the game since then. There are other factors. The 9.18 Update just seems like the biggest one.

 

Well I can't say much about pre 9.18 stuff as I wasn't really around at that point but to me this is all messed up and you can't see these things separately 

 

MM, premium ammo/armor, map design ... etc.

 

If you're 2 tiers down you often rely on premium ammo to get anything useful done and no you can't always run away, sometimes it's all about doing as much damage as you can before you die. Nerfing the premium ammo, which I'm not against as such, will only make things worse for tanks 2 tiers down.

 

Because of the current map design philosophy, let's make as many corridors as we can, the above situation gets worse

 

And so on and so forth

 

I and many other have suggested a fix that is relatively easy to test. Make the 5/10 template the top priority, then 15/0 and 3/5/7 in that order. Yes you'll still be bottom tier a lot but you'll be -1 more often instead of -2. Which in turn means you won't need to shoot so much premium ammo to be of use to your team. As a bonus it's much more user friendly for newbies who's already at a disadvantage my being less experienced, are most likely F2P so they'll have less equipment and most def fewer skills on their crews

 

Another bonus is that with the 5/10 template the top tier tanks are less important to the team than if they were +2 and even an average player like myself can help carry the team from a -1 position, not all the time obviously but I can support the good players who can

 

I' m not against going back to the previous version of the MM but with the "class/tier" abased addition we see in the current MM but that's obviously a bigger change, reversing the template order should be a relatively easy thing to implement and it could be tested almost immediately and it would provide some good statistical data on what needs to be done to come up with the "final" MM setup



the_Deadly_Bulb #1004 Posted Dec 16 2018 - 21:35

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View PostLiberty75, on Dec 16 2018 - 11:07, said:

It is still the MM for me LP. Having premium rounds retain their high penetration, yet do less damage seems viable. I'm guessing and obviously biased when it comes this comment: I think the MM changes along with easier ways to earn credits (reserves and special events) encouraged a high use of gold ammo. I can't help but see the 9.18 Update as the turning point with a lot of the negative changes that have developed in the game since then. There are other factors. The 9.18 Update just seems like the biggest one.

 

Watch, it will drive out FTP and shrink the population of the NA server more.

DeleriousDeadwood #1005 Posted Dec 16 2018 - 21:43

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Make the tanks more competitive when you are faced with +2 tiers above ... BUFF the lower tanks - something like +50% armor, damage, health, pen give us a chance ...and for the love of God stop making your "premium" tanks turds.

LpBronco #1006 Posted Dec 16 2018 - 21:58

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View Postthe_Deadly_Bulb, on Dec 16 2018 - 15:35, said:

 

Watch, it will drive out FTP and shrink the population of the NA server more.

 

Exactly my fear.

LpBronco #1007 Posted Dec 16 2018 - 22:04

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View PostDeleriousDeadwood, on Dec 16 2018 - 15:43, said:

Make the tanks more competitive when you are faced with +2 tiers above ... BUFF the lower tanks - something like +50% armor, damage, health, pen give us a chance ...and for the love of God stop making your "premium" tanks turds.

 

The only way to really achieve this is to increase the tier structure (say to 12) and then the differences between tanks is easier to manage. More pen costs more and no reason to give up alpha - if they've underestimated the impact simply increase the expense. Financial incentives (which include experience and bonds) are still the greatest behavioral modifiers at our disposal. 

 

Son, the premium tanks stopped being weak sisters sometimes around 9.18 and the recent buffs bring them more in line. 



DrWho_ #1008 Posted Dec 16 2018 - 22:24

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View PostLpBronco, on Dec 16 2018 - 22:04, said:

 

Son, the premium tanks stopped being weak sisters sometimes around 9.18 and the recent buffs bring them more in line. 

 

Depends on which tanks you are talking about

 

If you're a F2P then the reward tanks aren't exactly exciting are they. Yes there are a couple of tier 3 light tanks that are ok but the ones you got if you did that Twitch thing, the Church III and T14, they won't help out a F2P much consideringthey rely on the soon to be nerfed "special ammo" to be useful. Sure I quite like my Thunderbolt, especially since it comes with a BiA crew, but for someone not willing to spend money on this game the more affordable premiums are kinda meh. Which would be fair enough if the balance between the tiers was better but in the current state of things..... most of them aren't too exciting but turds is probably stretching it a bit



LpBronco #1009 Posted Dec 16 2018 - 23:41

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I was thinking primarily tier 8. My first thoughts didn't include the lower tiered premiums which can be challenging to play but also include some real ringers that can be forgiving and a lot of fun to play ( RamII comes to mind). They did say the change in alpha would be progressive with the higher damage rounds taking a significantly higher reduction (so the ChurchIII might be okay, the HEAT from the T-34-3 maybe not). Still think they're coming at this from the wrong direction.

Liberty75 #1010 Posted Dec 19 2018 - 23:23

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QuickyBaby helping to dispel WG's myths about the old MM, exactly as we've been saying on here since the 9.18 update.

 

WG Propaganda:

 Teams were getting matched in such a way there were very few opponents of your Tier in battle. For instance: there could be 13 Tier Xs but only 2 Tier VIII vehicles on your team.

 

Quicky's response:

 



xxBigbacon #1011 Posted Dec 20 2018 - 00:09

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3/5/7 the problem really is:

too much HP difference

too much pen difference

too much reliance on gold by lower tiers.

 

not so bad in say T8 being low but look at T5 or T6 in 3/5/7. it is abysmal most of the time. even worse than 8.



Liberty75 #1012 Posted Dec 20 2018 - 00:13

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View PostxxBigbacon, on Dec 19 2018 - 18:09, said:

3/5/7 the problem really is:

too much HP difference

too much pen difference

too much reliance on gold by lower tiers.

 

not so bad in say T8 being low but look at T5 or T6 in 3/5/7. it is abysmal most of the time. even worse than 8.

 

So in other words, 3/5/7 is the problem, as will be any strict template system.

Codewriter #1013 Posted Dec 20 2018 - 00:48

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The MM continues to be just ok...as WG as never done anything to allow us players to black-list those players who continue to afk-bot during random battles with  no penalty....other to just annoy those who are trying to actively play and contribute to their teams effective-ness :(

 

I would love to see all of my black-listed players never appear on my current team....but appear on my opposing team so I can beat them silly....imagine that....seeing all of your black-listed players on the opposing team...might be fun....zomg..fun..in ...a...game...what a concept :)



Liberty75 #1014 Posted Feb 07 2019 - 23:33

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This is a step in the right direction. Recent WG video:

 

They ultimately should just allow for any team setup templates - 1/1/13 to 13/1/1 and everything in-between, including two and single tier matches. That is the best way to even out top, middle, and bottom tier battles and provide the most variety and best experience for players overall.



Primace #1015 Posted Feb 08 2019 - 02:52

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bring back +/- 5

make KV-2 great again 



LpBronco #1016 Posted Feb 08 2019 - 04:58

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View PostLiberty75, on Feb 07 2019 - 17:33, said:

This is a step in the right direction. Recent WG video:

 

They ultimately should just allow for any team setup templates - 1/1/13 to 13/1/1 and everything in-between, including two and single tier matches. That is the best way to even out top, middle, and bottom tier battles and provide the most variety and best experience for players overall.

 

Amen. 

PrinzEugen85 #1017 Posted Feb 08 2019 - 04:59

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Once the MM is fixed, this game will become that much better.

Necrophore #1018 Posted Feb 08 2019 - 05:39

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71 battles to grind through a tier 6, and I'm top tier once the whole time. Play gud, play bad, doesn't matter in the long run.





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