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British Heavy Updates (SUPER CONQUEROR AHOY)

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Submersible_Fox #61 Posted Sep 14 2017 - 05:57

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I like how the console people have the Chieftain, and once again we get told, "Nah the Chieftain is too good for you PC people." And get a tank that, once again, WE DON'T WANT. I guess it would be silly of us to ask for a tank that, you know, we've been begging for for 4 years, that would be a REAL tank instead of a project tank, and more importantly has been in the game files FOR YEARS. I guess it's silly of us to ask for a tank that would be a good match for the Russian tanks at the same tier, can't give that to the UK heavy drivers.

 

Thank you for once again convincing me that I shouldn't have faith in the WoT dev team. Thankfully the WoWS team is infinitely better.



FrozenKemp #62 Posted Sep 14 2017 - 12:24

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View PostBeornotns, on Aug 29 2017 - 13:11, said:

If the frigging CONSOLE gets the Chieftain...  Why in the name of god's green corn don't WE get the damn tank?!?!

 

~B

 

Sadly... because WG has bigger plans for the Chieftain it seems.  The rumour is they want to make a second tank line or a half line (like tier 6-10) ending in the Chieftain.  (The console game is if I'm not mistaken developed in Chicago by a totally separate team from WG in Minsk.  The console game also gets silly stuff like Pz IV S with a TIE Fighter skin) 

 

it would be nice to get it now, but I'm still looking forward to this Super Conqueror. 


Edited by FrozenKemp, Sep 14 2017 - 12:26.


Goat_Rodeo #63 Posted Sep 14 2017 - 13:18

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Still not really inspired to suffer the pain and existential agony this line would bring without the end payoff being the Chieftain. If ever there was a sexy tank, Cheitain wins hands down. 

_LastChance_ #64 Posted Sep 16 2017 - 15:15

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IIRC, the Chieftain only looks like a good tank aesthetically.  It had absolutely no workable hull armor compared to every other tier 10 heavy in the game in the supertest stats I saw.   I'm not exactly sure why everyone wants it so bad.  Its got a great turret and a great gun.  So what?  So do a bunch of tier 10 mediums.  If I'm going to play a tier 10 heavy that cant expose any part of its hull for fear of risking an HE pen, I might as well take a medium's mobility and DPM into the battle.  Just my opinion.

BajaJames #65 Posted Sep 16 2017 - 17:03

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View Post_Tsavo, on Aug 11 2017 - 20:23, said:

 

CHIEFTAIN

CHIEFTAIN
CHIEFTAIN

CHIEFTAIN

CHIEFTAIN

CHIEFTAIN

CHIEFTAIN

CHIEFTAIN

CHIEFTAIN

CHIEFTAIN

 

Pardon us, we're just a lotta bit excited and really really really really want the Chieftain!

Dammit we still want the Chieftain.......

Mini branch or not where is it already



indoctrinated #66 Posted Sep 16 2017 - 18:14

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Chieftain is a "heavy" tank that has a medium tank hull with a stronger upper glacis. Tons of problems:
Upper glacis is unreliable at best vs AP/APCR due to the short stature of the tank (negating the autobounce angle). HEAT cuts thru it like butter.
Has hull-cheeks that present an easy target should you try side-scraping. Also, the lower 1/2 of the side armor is 38. 3mm thicker than the Tier 6 O-I. Overmatched by all 120mm+ caliber guns. This tank will get cut to pieces if it's not hulldown. Period.

Avalon304 #67 Posted Sep 16 2017 - 20:35

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View Postindoctrinated, on Sep 16 2017 - 10:14, said:

Chieftain is a "heavy" tank that has a medium tank hull with a stronger upper glacis. Tons of problems:
Upper glacis is unreliable at best vs AP/APCR due to the short stature of the tank (negating the autobounce angle). HEAT cuts thru it like butter.
Has hull-cheeks that present an easy target should you try side-scraping. Also, the lower 1/2 of the side armor is 38. 3mm thicker than the Tier 6 O-I. Overmatched by all 120mm+ caliber guns. This tank will get cut to pieces if it's not hulldown. Period.

 

Oh no... people will have to position properly instead of just expecting their armor block everything. How terrible.

indoctrinated #68 Posted Sep 17 2017 - 02:09

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View PostAvalon304, on Sep 16 2017 - 20:35, said:

 

Oh no... people will have to position properly instead of just expecting their armor block everything. How terrible.

 

The underlying assumption in your post is that you can always go hull-down. If this was the case, tanks like the T29 family, Conqueror would dominate and the other heavy tank families would be useless. This is clearly not the case. What is this tank going to do when that is not possible? Cower behind teammates, let them take the hits while all you can do is peek-a-boom? That does not provide much value to a team. Elite players like SchnitzelTruck appreciate the need for armor too:

Block Quote

 I highly dislike the conq and 215b actually for their massive amount of issues. There's a reason why I have neither in my garage anymore.

I have never particularly liked it. Only good thing is gun, glad they buffed the turret. That hull is [edited]useless.

 Or are you going to tell him he's just doing it wrong (LOLz)?

 



dtsenator #69 Posted Sep 17 2017 - 09:03

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It's nice that WG informs mortals regarding changes upfront, but are there any EAT of the update 9.20.1?

 

Gotta plan my time, you know, to grind out FV215B.

 

I'd appreciate if anyone will share approximate date, thanks

 

 

 

 



Avalon304 #70 Posted Sep 17 2017 - 13:33

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View Postindoctrinated, on Sep 16 2017 - 18:09, said:

 

The underlying assumption in your post is that you can always go hull-down. If this was the case, tanks like the T29 family, Conqueror would dominate and the other heavy tank families would be useless. This is clearly not the case. What is this tank going to do when that is not possible? Cower behind teammates, let them take the hits while all you can do is peek-a-boom? That does not provide much value to a team. Elite players like SchnitzelTruck appreciate the need for armor too:

 Or are you going to tell him he's just doing it wrong (LOLz)?

 

 

Actually... yes... I am... Both the Conq and 215b are AMAZING tanks. The Conq is probably the single best tier 9 heavy in the game (well it was... it wont be next patch) and the 215b is no slouch because its gun is sublime. That a good player doesnt know how to play them doesnt change that many other good players consider them amazing.

 

Theres a lot more to positioning than just assuming you can get hull down when you want. (BTW... thats actually pretty easy in this game). Sometimes its about just being there... having a loaded gun pointed at the enemy is value in and of itself. I have won games just by stalling a flank with a few tanks because they didnt want to push 3 loaded guns. Just being in the right place at the right time is proper positioning.

 

Armor is a passive mechanic that can be easily negated. No good players truly rely on it to do anything other than save them from a mistake. Learning proper positioning and using terrain (which has no chance to be penned) to block shots is how you continue to get better at this game. Players need to stop relying on armor to block everything, and learn how to not get hit in the first place. If you can learn how to position yourself so you can deal damage for no shots in return youre set in this game... because thats what this game is, setting up a series of trades where you shoot and dont get shot back.

 

So... I'll reiterate: Oh no... a heavy tank where players will have to learn how to position themselves properly instead of just expecting their armor to block all the shots. How terrible.



Beornotns #71 Posted Sep 19 2017 - 04:59

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View Postindoctrinated, on Aug 11 2017 - 17:28, said:

The Chieftain has a pathetic upper glacis and a merely above average turret. Grossly overhyped tank. I will take this new Conqueror easily.

<SNIP>

 

The Defender, T26E5 and Chrysler K are grossly overhyped tanks, above average at best. SirFoch really pulled the wool over this game community with his immature, vitriolic rants against WG (while using THEIR FREE CONTENT to make money on WG's back).

 

Your user name...  It's REALLY accurate, ain't it?

 

~B



155mm_Royalty #72 Posted Sep 19 2017 - 05:34

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View PostBeornotns, on Sep 18 2017 - 17:59, said:

 

Your user name...  It's REALLY accurate, ain't it?

 

~B

 

he has come full circle.

Shill.



SCR3W #73 Posted Sep 19 2017 - 15:08

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when will the test server be available and when will the update occure?

 



indoctrinated #74 Posted Sep 19 2017 - 23:17

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View PostBeornotns, on Sep 19 2017 - 04:59, said:

 

Your user name...  It's REALLY accurate, ain't it?

 

~B

Prove whatever I said is incorrect. Otherwise take it to PMs.

View Post155mm_Royalty, on Sep 19 2017 - 05:34, said:

 

he has come full circle.

Shill.

Lol yeah not falling for sensationalist YouTubers makes me a shill.



HowitzerBlitzer #75 Posted Sep 19 2017 - 23:52

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Chieftan could make for a tier 8 premium.

OldManLiao #76 Posted Sep 22 2017 - 20:18

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Common Test Review Super Conqueror

     As heavy tanks go this is a very good first iteration for a new hvy Brit.  I will enjoy playing this tank as is knowing the limitations but as always I do the following tweaks.

 

  This is a slower less mobile tank with a slow turret traverse, but these comments are not in a derogatory way as different tanks will have different characteristics and with weighing in at close to 80 tons and a heavily armored turret, its mobility should be sluggish.  I do have some comments on fine tuning though.  These comments are in comparison to the nearest WG tank in the game and that is the American T110-E5.  The ami tank has better gun depression (-8 versus -7 for the brit) but a much stronger hull (203 versus 152 for the Brit).  So this puts the E5 at a distinct advantage in a hill fight.  Another fine tuning comments goes back to mobility and the game designers should have a better handle on this, but British tanks have been known for their lower rolling resistance and climbing ability from 1946 era on.

 

Conclusion: 

Increase the gun depression for the Brit to -8.

2nd leave the turret  traverse and speed alone, but decrease the rolling resistance to allow the tank to use the lower speed portion of its range.  IE for speeds below 24 kph lower the rolling resistance.  But make the tanks struggle to get to its top speed after all it is a hefty tank at 80 tons.

 

Arguments for this change:

Most locations on the maps in the game appear to require -8 degrees or more gun depression to make effective use of the terrain and tanks with -7 degrees or less have to expose large amounts of their hull to get a shot off at an opponent.  This negates superior turret armor for those tanks like the Super Congueror that have 152mm of sloped armor for their hull.

 

Arguments against this:

The turret armor for the Brit is much better and has a small commanders coupula.

Also it has spaced turret armor so it has a better defense against the American premium Heat round.

Last the British have access to a more effective Hesh round than the Americans HE so a prolonged battle will favor the British again.

 

The game designers probably have had these arguments already in house, but I hope this sparks some additional confirmation on my observations.

 

OldManLiao

 







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