Worst tank ever built ?
Flyntlock
Aug 18 2010
T35 has to have this award. Big(nice easy target) slow ,you could run faster.no armour to talk of and even with five turrets not a good weapon among em.
dotalchemy
Aug 18 2010
theta0123
Aug 18 2010
LGrum, on Aug 18 2010 - 12:39, said:
I think you must be referring to churchill's speech in the House of Commons in 1942:
"This tank was ordered off the drawing board and large number went into production very quickly. As might be expected, it had many defects and teething troubles and, when these became apparent, the tank was appropriately re-christened the 'Churchill.' "
Which is part self-deprecating humour.
Churchill's next line is
"These defects have now been largely overcome," he added. "I have no doubt that this tank will prove, in the end, a powerful, massive and serviceable weapon of war."
Given that he was speeking about the time that the Mark III went into action in North Africa and 8,000 of all Marks would be produced he seems to have been largely right.
Here's a piece on the first use of the Churchill, in North Africa http://www.northiris...articles/7.html as King Force, where it proved effective in assault and defence.
"This tank was ordered off the drawing board and large number went into production very quickly. As might be expected, it had many defects and teething troubles and, when these became apparent, the tank was appropriately re-christened the 'Churchill.' "
Which is part self-deprecating humour.
Churchill's next line is
"These defects have now been largely overcome," he added. "I have no doubt that this tank will prove, in the end, a powerful, massive and serviceable weapon of war."
Given that he was speeking about the time that the Mark III went into action in North Africa and 8,000 of all Marks would be produced he seems to have been largely right.
Here's a piece on the first use of the Churchill, in North Africa http://www.northiris...articles/7.html as King Force, where it proved effective in assault and defence.
@grauwolf
Aug 19 2010
Grigori
Aug 19 2010
LGrum
Aug 19 2010
theta0123, on Aug 18 2010 - 23:01, said:
Thanks alot mate. I always was a great fan of the churchill tanks, and now i finnaly read the whole story of the King Force at el alamein.Do you happen to have more articles like these of the churchill?
Did you read the rest of the articles on the North Irish and using Churchills on that website; their use high in the mountains of North Africa (Tunisia) is very interesting and there's the piece on Dieppe there that goes into detail as to what happened.
Interesting on the numbers - 27 reached the beach, of which 15 got onto the promenade. They couldn't break through the road blocks and so 10 of those returned to the beach. Equally 14 tank crew were killed but only 2 where in tanks at the time.
LGrum
Aug 19 2010
GrauWolf, on Aug 19 2010 - 02:53, said:
A search through the "Bundesarchiv" gives the description as "Belgien (nahe der französischen Grenze).- Zwei deutsche Soldaten bei der Begutachtung eines erbeuteten belgischen Panzers T-13 B3; PK 689"
Which avoiding the exact translation means its a picture of a Belgian T13 B3 which is the tank destroyer version of the T15 machine gun carrier. The T15 is a Belgian rebuild of a Carden Lloyd artillery tractor. The T13 had a C47 (47mm) anti-tank gun which was probably quite effective - since I found reference to it putting a shell through a PanzerVI on one side and out the other.
Luftwaffle
Aug 19 2010
I'm going to say the Valiant. It was basically a project to turn the Valintine II into a heavy tank, by adding more armor, but the 27 ton tank was equipped with only a 210 hp engine, so it had a top speed of 19 km/h, with about the armor of a churchill and only a 6 Pdr for a gun. It is widely regarded as the worst tank in history, and is kept by the School of Tank Technology as an example to its students. One of their final exams is to study the tank and find everything that's wrong.
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Valiant_tank
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Valiant_tank
theta0123
Aug 20 2010
LGrum, on Aug 19 2010 - 13:40, said:
A search through the "Bundesarchiv" gives the description as "Belgien (nahe der französischen Grenze).- Zwei deutsche Soldaten bei der Begutachtung eines erbeuteten belgischen Panzers T-13 B3; PK 689"
Which avoiding the exact translation means its a picture of a Belgian T13 B3 which is the tank destroyer version of the T15 machine gun carrier. The T15 is a Belgian rebuild of a Carden Lloyd artillery tractor. The T13 had a C47 (47mm) anti-tank gun which was probably quite effective - since I found reference to it putting a shell through a PanzerVI on one side and out the other.
Which avoiding the exact translation means its a picture of a Belgian T13 B3 which is the tank destroyer version of the T15 machine gun carrier. The T15 is a Belgian rebuild of a Carden Lloyd artillery tractor. The T13 had a C47 (47mm) anti-tank gun which was probably quite effective - since I found reference to it putting a shell through a PanzerVI on one side and out the other.
the 47mm gun was brand new and very effective. We belgians had a whole new line of guns ready to be produced, but ye, germany was a bit to soon in our country
@tokani
Aug 20 2010
Well just take a look at this "tank" here :
Zar Panzer / Tsar Tank
... WW1 prototype ... but what kind of drugs did the engineers take?
Zar Panzer / Tsar Tank
... WW1 prototype ... but what kind of drugs did the engineers take?
Manco
Aug 21 2010
theta0123
Aug 21 2010
Bumerangonix
Aug 21 2010
http://s50.radikal.ru/i127/1008/81/1f9b3c9ed75e.jpg
Gazodinamichesky trawler "Warming up"
Gazodinamichesky trawler "Warming up"
killakanz
Aug 24 2010
I'm amazed nobody has yet mentioned this, the worst mass produced medium tank that I can think of to see action:
http://ww2total.com/...40-02-px800.jpg
It's an Italian M13/40. It was Italy's most produced tank of the war. In 1940, it completely failed to halt the advance of British tank divisions in North Africa which were at the time equipped with Cruiser tanks Mks 1 through 4, leading to the complete destruction of the Italian Tenth Army. It was later completely outclassed by the Crusader tanks. Yes, I said Crusader tanks. I'll leave it to you to imagine how crap it was against Grants and Shermans when they made their appearances.
http://ww2total.com/...40-02-px800.jpg
It's an Italian M13/40. It was Italy's most produced tank of the war. In 1940, it completely failed to halt the advance of British tank divisions in North Africa which were at the time equipped with Cruiser tanks Mks 1 through 4, leading to the complete destruction of the Italian Tenth Army. It was later completely outclassed by the Crusader tanks. Yes, I said Crusader tanks. I'll leave it to you to imagine how crap it was against Grants and Shermans when they made their appearances.
Grigori
Aug 24 2010
The M13/40 is far from the worst tank to see action. I don't think many of you are even trying. The M11/39, surely, was worse. The 13/40 was an improvement in nearly every way. Then there are Italian Light tanks, like the FIAT L6/40 and the generations before that. But then it can be argued that these were better off than the FT-17. But in any case, I stand by the Bob Semple tank which I posted earlier.
theta0123
Aug 24 2010
Grigori, on Aug 24 2010 - 15:35, said:
The M13/40 is far from the worst tank to see action. I don't think many of you are even trying. The M11/39, surely, was worse. The 13/40 was an improvement in nearly every way. Then there are Italian Light tanks, like the FIAT L6/40 and the generations before that. But then it can be argued that these were better off than the FT-17. But in any case, I stand by the Bob Semple tank which I posted earlier.
That alone defiantly gives it a place in history.
killakanz
Aug 24 2010
Yeah, and for it's time the M11/39 could be considered as competent. The M13/40 was an improvement, but nowhere near enough to match it's opponents at it's time.
Grigori
Aug 24 2010
theta0123, on Aug 24 2010 - 16:02, said:
The M13 was the first mass produced tank with DIESEL engines.
That alone defiantly gives it a place in history.
That alone defiantly gives it a place in history.
Not really. Diesel engines didn't prove themselves superior to gasoline powered engines for quite some time after. The whole "Sherman blew up because of evil gasoline" thing has been debunked hundreds upon hundreds of times over, and its engines still provided better power to weight ratios than many of its contemporaries.
In any case, the thread is about the worst tank ever built. Are there tanks worse than the M13/40? Many, many, many. So can the M13-40 be considered the worst tank ever built? Logically, it cannot. The bob semple tank, in contrast, was armed with a half dozen machine guns on a vertically aligned hull with an eight man crew. The vehicle was a conversion from a civilian tractor by welding a mild sheet steel superstructure in place over it, and the vehicle had to stop to change gears.
But, of course, this tank wasn't mass produced. In that case, it's very hard to argue against the British Mark 1 female being considered one of the worst, even if it was (debatable) the first.
robozu
Aug 25 2010
Grigori, on Aug 17 2010 - 21:52, said:
honest fail from new zealand here
http://en.wikipedia....Bob_Semple_tank
theta0123
Aug 25 2010
Grigori, on Aug 24 2010 - 17:46, said:
Not really. Diesel engines didn't prove themselves superior to gasoline powered engines for quite some time after. The whole "Sherman blew up because of evil gasoline" thing has been debunked hundreds upon hundreds of times over, and its engines still provided better power to weight ratios than many of its contemporaries.
In any case, the thread is about the worst tank ever built. Are there tanks worse than the M13/40? Many, many, many. So can the M13-40 be considered the worst tank ever built? Logically, it cannot. The bob semple tank, in contrast, was armed with a half dozen machine guns on a vertically aligned hull with an eight man crew. The vehicle was a conversion from a civilian tractor by welding a mild sheet steel superstructure in place over it, and the vehicle had to stop to change gears.
But, of course, this tank wasn't mass produced. In that case, it's very hard to argue against the British Mark 1 female being considered one of the worst, even if it was (debatable) the first.
In any case, the thread is about the worst tank ever built. Are there tanks worse than the M13/40? Many, many, many. So can the M13-40 be considered the worst tank ever built? Logically, it cannot. The bob semple tank, in contrast, was armed with a half dozen machine guns on a vertically aligned hull with an eight man crew. The vehicle was a conversion from a civilian tractor by welding a mild sheet steel superstructure in place over it, and the vehicle had to stop to change gears.
But, of course, this tank wasn't mass produced. In that case, it's very hard to argue against the British Mark 1 female being considered one of the worst, even if it was (debatable) the first.



