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Premium rounds alpha damage nerf?


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Poll: Premium round alpha nerf (20 members have cast votes)

Should premium rounds have less alpha damage than standard rounds?

  1. Yes (7 votes [35.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 35.00%

  2. No (13 votes [65.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 65.00%

Should premium tanks also lose the premium round alpha?

  1. Yes (4 votes [20.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

  2. No (16 votes [80.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 80.00%

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Achilles21st #1 Posted Aug 13 2017 - 11:11

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With the increased amounts of premium rounds fired lately, is it not a too bad of an idea to nerf the average alpha damage of the premium shells. I mean come to think about it, the equation for it would be: reduced alpha for the increased penetration. It would be a balancing factor since you make a sacrifice in order to gain an advantage in another area. I, personally, also think that the premium tanks should have the same shell nerf. No tanks should be exempted. With that in mind it should technically also be a win for WarGaming, since it would require people to fire more premium rounds to gain similar damage as standard rounds. In other words, a person needs to make a choice between causing more damage with a shell, but risking a possible bounce, or stand a better chance to penetrate the target, but has less of an affect against his targets. The idea of a pay-to-win player that has no idea how to play, can basically just jump in a Skorpion G, auto aim with the premium round and fire. No skill needed. Just aim and shoot. Personally I find that people who can't afford a premium tank is at a disadvantage, since that player would then not be able to take 30 premium shells and go ham. So I do propose a alpha nerf to all premium shells, regardless if it is a premium tank (and yes I do own several premium tanks so I would be affected on the paid front as well).  

This is merely a suggestion and I am not trying to force this on anyone, but I would like to see what the community thinks of this idea.

 



HowitzerBlitzer #2 Posted Aug 13 2017 - 11:25

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Blitz did it, it's working out great for them.

HisNameWasSethRich #3 Posted Aug 13 2017 - 11:28

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View PostHowitzerBlitzer, on Aug 13 2017 - 05:25, said:

Blitz did it, it's working out great for them.

 

Blitz is a lot different than PC though. 

CynicalDutchie #4 Posted Aug 13 2017 - 12:00

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We need an alpha nerf in general, not just for premium rounds.

84Doc04 #5 Posted Aug 13 2017 - 12:58

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You can't Nerf premium tanks.  It's something that someone paid real money for.  Changing it after the fact is breach of contract and would open WG up to a lawsuit.

You could nerf premium ammo, but that's a very complicated subject with a LOT of tangled up issues and heated emotions (like arty)

Just face the fact that if it ever does happen, it'll be a LONG way down the road.



CynicalDutchie #6 Posted Aug 13 2017 - 13:00

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View Post84Doc04, on Aug 13 2017 - 12:58, said:

You can't Nerf premium tanks.  It's something that someone paid real money for.  Changing it after the fact is breach of contract and would open WG up to a lawsuit.

 

No it wouldn't



_GeorgePreddy #7 Posted Aug 13 2017 - 13:30

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View PostCynicalDutchie, on Aug 13 2017 - 13:00, said:

 

No it wouldn't

 

Yes... it would.

TLWiz #8 Posted Aug 13 2017 - 13:50

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View PostAchilles21st, on Aug 13 2017 - 11:11, said:

 The idea of a pay-to-win player that has no idea how to play, can basically just jump in a Skorpion G, auto aim with the premium round and fire. No skill needed. Just aim and shoot. Personally I find that people who can't afford a premium tank is at a disadvantage, since that player would then not be able to take 30 premium shells and go ham. 

 

 

Do you realize that you can buy premium rounds for credits and that you can earn credits without paying for anything?  Another note, that player in the Skorp G who has no idea how to play will do poorly, premium shells or no.  Sometimes people shoot back....    This particular line of complaint is a bit long in the tooth.  Premium shells are there for all to use. If you choose not to use them, you only put yourself at a disadvantage. I do have a Skorp G and it is very rare that it ever needs to use premium rounds - leaving me wondering at your example on several levels.


Edited by TLWiz, Aug 13 2017 - 13:53.


Jagermeister13 #9 Posted Aug 13 2017 - 14:11

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Do you guys ever realize why this game is having issues overall?  Because 99% of this community comes on these forums and just complains about one thing or another.  I don't understand how and why Wargaming caters to it.  Everyone complained about arty, complained about tanks being too OP, now the big thing is complaining about certain rounds.  APCR or premium rounds is a standard on all tanks.  If anything I would suggest making tanks carry the real amount of rounds they would carry in real life.  If someone wants to blow through all of their silver and load all premium rounds then so be it.  I carry between 5-10 premium rounds on most of my tanks and shoot standard most of the time.  It's part of the game so deal with it or move on.



Achilles21st #10 Posted Aug 13 2017 - 14:31

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View PostTLWiz, on Aug 13 2017 - 12:50, said:

 

Do you realize that you can buy premium rounds for credits and that you can earn credits without paying for anything?  Another note, that player in the Skorp G who has no idea how to play will do poorly, premium shells or no.  Sometimes people shoot back....    This particular line of complaint is a bit long in the tooth.  Premium shells are there for all to use. If you choose not to use them, you only put yourself at a disadvantage. I do have a Skorp G and it is very rare that it ever needs to use premium rounds - leaving me wondering at your example on several levels.

 

Actually the pay-to-win refers to someone that has, for instance, a premium account, a premium tank and those credit boosters. If I play in e.g my FCM with my credit booster activated (with prem account), I can squeeze between 60-120k credits in a game (dependant on a victory/defeat). Now take a player that has neither of the 3 things I used. Lets say he makes a profit of 15k a match. That would mean I can afford 5 times the amount of premium shells he can get. Sure he can buy it with credits, just I will be able to buy a huge amount. Now with that in mind lets say I take a Defender into a game with only premium shells. That would mean I can pen more reliably my target, giving me more damage, hence leading to more XP. The thing that mainly bothers me is that I will make my target's armour obsolete when I engage his tank. For instance T-54 heat shell in the cheek of an E-100. With heat I don't even need to aim properly, but a player who cant afford the heat shells would not be able to penetrate the cheek of the E-100. Simply put, I have a huge advantage in credits (since I would be able to fund the premium ammo usage), compared to a player that cant afford it. I want the damage alpha nerfed so that we have an option to prefer standard rounds instead, rather than just refer to premium rounds when we bounce.

Edited by Achilles21st, Aug 13 2017 - 14:31.


CrazzyStreaker #11 Posted Aug 13 2017 - 14:37

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View PostAchilles21st, on Aug 13 2017 - 07:31, said:

 

Actually the pay-to-win refers to someone that has, for instance, a premium account, a premium tank and those credit boosters. If I play in e.g my FCM with my credit booster activated (with prem account), I can squeeze between 60-120k credits in a game (dependant on a victory/defeat). Now take a player that has neither of the 3 things I used. Lets say he makes a profit of 15k a match. That would mean I can afford 5 times the amount of premium shells he can get. Sure he can buy it with credits, just I will be able to buy a huge amount. Now with that in mind lets say I take a Defender into a game with only premium shells. That would mean I can pen more reliably my target, giving me more damage, hence leading to more XP. The thing that mainly bothers me is that I will make my target's armour obsolete when I engage his tank. For instance T-54 heat shell in the cheek of an E-100. With heat I don't even need to aim properly, but a player who cant afford the heat shells would not be able to penetrate the cheek of the E-100. Simply put, I have a huge advantage in credits (since I would be able to fund the premium ammo usage), compared to a player that cant afford it. I want the damage alpha nerfed so that we have an option to prefer standard rounds instead, rather than just refer to premium rounds when we bounce.

 

Wont work, you will make it worse not better, lower the alpha on prem ammo and the cost will need to be lowered to compensate, cheaper APCR will mean people will just fire more of it not less even with the lower alpha.

  These polls follow a common trend, the majority are fine with the current setup of premium ammo.



Achilles21st #12 Posted Aug 13 2017 - 14:40

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View PostJagermeister13, on Aug 13 2017 - 13:11, said:

Do you guys ever realize why this game is having issues overall?  Because 99% of this community comes on these forums and just complains about one thing or another.  I don't understand how and why Wargaming caters to it.  Everyone complained about arty, complained about tanks being too OP, now the big thing is complaining about certain rounds.  APCR or premium rounds is a standard on all tanks.  If anything I would suggest making tanks carry the real amount of rounds they would carry in real life.  If someone wants to blow through all of their silver and load all premium rounds then so be it.  I carry between 5-10 premium rounds on most of my tanks and shoot standard most of the time.  It's part of the game so deal with it or move on.

 

Also I am not really complaining. I just want an overview of what peoples perspectives are on the premium usage. Also this is my first forum where I addressed something so no I do not resort or complain about everything. Besides with the suggestion you made, I got to say I do not agree with you, since if people didn't complain, WG would not be able to address issues with the game, hence making more problems. I do agree that most people complain about crap that is unnecessary, but that is something of its own. 

M4Nick #13 Posted Aug 13 2017 - 19:06

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Achilles21st I do agree with you on this. If I were Wargaming, this is what I would do with premium ammo. For example, if a tank that has good penetration with their gun and good alpha with regular ammo (i.e.Normal AP/Normal Tier X APCR rounds) That would be good. For premium, this may work to resolve the premium ammo issue. (Maybe, I don't know.) Like for a big example like for medium tank like the Action X, the ammo damage is 390, for a gold alpha damage nerf, I would drop it to at least 320 or a little higher to 340 instead of 390. I know some people may not agree with me on this, but here would the facts. If you see a tank that your normal rounds can pen through or you can hit their weakspot with the accuracy of the gun you wouldn't need the prem, unless if the person knows how to drive that tank, then you can decide if you want to use it or not. If you need to use prem to get through, that I do understand, at least drop the alpha damage at least 30 damage or even 40 damage to at least make it competitive again. I only carry 7 rounds of prem on my T-29, I only use it, if either I run out, or I can't hit a weakspot with the regular AP. That would serious make everything even. And I do know the issue that people will use it more, but if the alpha is lowered a little, it would make the game more fair in my honest opinion.

VooDooKobra #14 Posted Aug 13 2017 - 19:10

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View PostAchilles21st, on Aug 13 2017 - 03:11, said:

With the increased amounts of premium rounds fired lately, is it not a too bad of an idea to nerf the average alpha damage of the premium shells. I mean come to think about it, the equation for it would be: reduced alpha for the increased penetration. It would be a balancing factor since you make a sacrifice in order to gain an advantage in another area. I, personally, also think that the premium tanks should have the same shell nerf. No tanks should be exempted. With that in mind it should technically also be a win for WarGaming, since it would require people to fire more premium rounds to gain similar damage as standard rounds. In other words, a person needs to make a choice between causing more damage with a shell, but risking a possible bounce, or stand a better chance to penetrate the target, but has less of an affect against his targets. The idea of a pay-to-win player that has no idea how to play, can basically just jump in a Skorpion G, auto aim with the premium round and fire. No skill needed. Just aim and shoot. Personally I find that people who can't afford a premium tank is at a disadvantage, since that player would then not be able to take 30 premium shells and go ham. So I do propose a alpha nerf to all premium shells, regardless if it is a premium tank (and yes I do own several premium tanks so I would be affected on the paid front as well).  

This is merely a suggestion and I am not trying to force this on anyone, but I would like to see what the community thinks of this idea.

 

 

i believe added to this should be reduced cost.  not only a massive drop in credit cost for regular ammo but  a drop in cost for the nerfed premium ammo as well.  this will also help the issue of losing tones of money in later tiers

Edited by VooDooKobra, Aug 13 2017 - 19:11.


Gothraul #15 Posted Aug 13 2017 - 21:09

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The ammo isn't the problem and due to WG's poor balancing some tanks require it in order to not be a detriment to their teams, what WG needs to fix is why it needs to be used in the first place and a lot of it is player side with the poor quality rush meta thanks to the cancer that is xvm.

8bit_Gamer #16 Posted Aug 13 2017 - 22:48

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View Post_GeorgePreddy, on Aug 13 2017 - 12:30, said:

 

Yes... it would.

 

It has been done before....where are those lawsuits?



VooDooKobra #17 Posted Aug 14 2017 - 08:48

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View Post8bit_Gamer, on Aug 13 2017 - 14:48, said:

 

It has been done before....where are those lawsuits?

 

the way gaming evolves the legal system in not prepared.  but after the storm that went down after the SP got nerfed WG has been hesitant to nerf premium tanks 

_GeorgePreddy #18 Posted Aug 14 2017 - 13:37

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WG has an unwritten but VERY REAL policy of not ever nerfing prem tanks, this resulted from the great SP debacle years ago, when they full gold refunded every SP owner that chose to sell it back to them due to the very unpopular nerf to it.  No prem tanks have been nerfed since.

 

Possible legal issues are why this policy exists.






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