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A Message to all the Compainers

server merge na central ping complainers bad problems impatient vent get real

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rufus374 #21 Posted Aug 17 2017 - 18:23

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View PostMichael_Cochrane_2017, on Aug 17 2017 - 11:39, said:

One of the things about "working out the bugs"....ahem....I like to make comparisons to the car industry because most people car relate.


If you bought a new car, after a week noticed it hesitating and running rough....take it in to the dealer and complain, and they come back with "we're working on it, we'll work the bugs out eventually"....? would you be happy?

If you don't know what will happen when you make a move like this, seriously, you should find another business to be in.....

 

Car manufacturers have an exacting supply chain, standardized vehicle specs, equipment and product testing, whereas WGNA has no control over anything beyond their own server equipment and hosting services.  You must remember that individual players' computers, modems, ISPs, or routing to/from their servers can each impact a player's ability to access and play in a manner that each deems acceptable.  Hell, I used to have serious connectivity issues and it turned out to be the old phone lines in my house.

 

I feel that WGNA has done an admirable job with this merge, while acknowledging that there will be a portion of the player base that is negatively affected.  They even went so far as to explicitly give instructions on how to provide constructive feedback and data to help them improve the experience for all of us.

 

I can respect that there are many that are unhappy with this change, but for the love of PETE, let's at least allow them to have the server up for more than 24 hours before we declare it the end of the world.  By all means, lets hold WGNA responsible if there are issues within their scope of control, while not demanding their heads on a pike every time that someone has lag, packet loss or can't connect when that issue might be beyond their control.


Edited by rufus374, Aug 17 2017 - 18:24.


Michael_Cochrane_2017 #22 Posted Aug 17 2017 - 18:38

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View PostTheRussianMonster, on Aug 17 2017 - 07:41, said:

 

Just sounds like bad luck friend.

First off, there arn't alot of "kiddies" playing this game.  Consider this quote, "Wargaming CEO Victor Kislyi himself was up front about the audience World of Tanks has intentionally captured.

"The game was targeted to a slightly older male audience," he said. "Older guys, who usually have a family, work, and [have] an extra couple of dollars in their pocket for their favorite game but don't have that much time. Plus it's a little slower than your typical shooter or Dota-style game. So you don't have to be clicking 70 times per second to be good at World of Tanks. It's slower, it's...OK, manly. It's historic, it's metal, it's scary in a good sense, and it's photorealistic. There aren’t many photorealistic, really cinematic-looking games in esports. Most of them are cartoonish. (https://www.gamespot.com/articles/why-world-of-tanks-is-wildly-popular-and-no-one-se/1100-6444022/)

 

Sometime's teams just aren't very good. However its true that the "looser" team has an equal chance of being the opposing team as it does of being your own team. This is true for any online video game, or any competition for that matter. In order for someone to win, someone must loose (draws excluded). Just focus on helping when you can, and remember the matchmaking will balance itself out. Some battles the team may fail you, sure, however other battles the team may carry you even if you don't do anything to help.

 

PS. I would really recommend you watch a you-tube video or something to learn how the spotting mechanic works in WoT. I think that will help your experience, and help you to understand why sometimes your team stops to hide in a bush.

 

Yes, the loser team has as much chance as being my opponent as much as my team...but I have a theory on that as well.....(which I won't get into) but it sure seemed like of the 30 or 40 rounds I played, all but 3 were of this caliber. 

Yes, I understand spotting.....but when 10 out of 15 players "spot" and artie doesn't shoot, kind of useless no? don't get me going on artie, that's a whole 'nother rant in itself lol......(in 2 months, I have yet to have artie fire at a target I spotted...the best was last night, someone asked for a spotter, I said "I will, but you have to promise to shoot at what I designate" OH HELL yeah i will....ok, spotted a target, designated it....target killed me, and 3 other spotters then he fired on where the target was.....2 minutes ago......

All I know is this: up until last night, I was doing 45% wins. I have the same tanks, same tactics, same grews, same ammo, in fact, my crews are better trained so my wins/kills should go UP not down....In science, they have a procedure of cause and effect. You want to find the cause of an issue, you look for changes...what changed? It is literally impossible for a human being to change themselves in 24 hrs.....

GeorgePreddy #23 Posted Aug 17 2017 - 19:00

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View PostRedwave11, on Aug 17 2017 - 05:06, said:

 

I really hope you can manage all that latency.....

I don't know how people have even above 500wn8 with more than 60ms

 

Yeah, really... my ping has been ~150ms since I started 5 years ago.  How am I even able to play at all ???

_Laserguided_ #24 Posted Aug 17 2017 - 19:03

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Complaining about the complainers... Another day in World of Tanks...

 



warrends #25 Posted Aug 17 2017 - 19:04

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View PostMichael_Cochrane_2017, on Aug 17 2017 - 01:14, said:

One thing you didn't consider: at a certain time of night, us adults can play with adults because all the kids are in bed. Now? in random play we will ALWAYS play with kids...no teamwork, camping, run and gunning, no strategy at all.

 

Never blame "the kids". My son began playing when he was 7. Seriously. He's not playing at the moment but in those ensuing 5 years, from ages 7-11 or so, he racked up a 53.5% win rate (~5k battles, so a very good data sample). That's in the upper 80% of the entire playerbase. It's not "the kids". It's:

1) Players who come just for fun and honestly don't care what happens. And, like it or not, that's fair, even to those of us who are trying to win every battle.

2) Players who try but just suck. Again, that's fair. At least they are trying.

3) Trolls, which are by far the minority.

4) The 40% of battles which you will NOT win no matter what. Even the best of the best lose 30-40% of their battles, for any number of reasons. Those battles are just unwinnable.

 

As has been said for many, many years, the one single constant in every battle you are in is you. There is no other constant. Therefore if your win rate and other stats are bad, then it's you.

 

As for the new server, it's fine with me. My ping jumped to a gigantic ~40 ms. In Maryland. And in an area with good 'net speeds. If you're trying to play in BFEgypt or via 1MB/s motel WiFi, rethink your situation.



nastinad #26 Posted Aug 17 2017 - 22:33

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I went from not being able to play the east server, but playable on the west server, to unplayable on the new server. fact. not a complaint.

 



Redwave11 #27 Posted Aug 17 2017 - 23:28

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View Postnastinad, on Aug 18 2017 - 07:33, said:

I went from not being able to play the east server, but playable on the west server, to unplayable on the new server. fact. not a complaint.

 

 

Whats your ping on the new server?

 

I can almost guarantee other people have worse and aren't 'stating facts'.......



KarlvonC #28 Posted Aug 18 2017 - 02:18

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View PostTheRussianMonster, on Aug 17 2017 - 15:30, said:

Sorry guys I gotta vent. I can't take all the negativity anymore!

 

Please, please stop complaining and think before you say the server merge is "so bad"! It is actually a GOOD THING! So ping goes up by 10 - 15ms. So what? ms stands for MILLISECONDS. Only 10/1000 - 15/1000 of a second! That's nothing and you will not notice it. It will result in waaaayyy better MM. 

 

As for the people saying ping jumped through the roof or their game is now unplayable so "they quit forever", that sounds like a routing problem or an optimization problem, not a distance problem. Try to be patient! It keeps you from throwing in the towel on a new server not even 24 hours old lol. Good god man show some patience. They will fix it.

 

This game is fantastic, and is not dying. I joined in 2013 when their were usually around 4k players online on NA West. 2017 (yesterday before the merge) still around 4k players online NA West. The sky hasn't fallen. I havn't personally seen a huge drop in player count like some claim.

 

In short I would say the good old "glass half empty or full" analogy, but in reality people are crying about the glass that's 10% empty but still 90% full lol.

 

PS. I love the merge Wargaming, NA Central is a fantastic idea.

 

Uhm my ping went up an additional 100 ms

Grommash_Hellscream #29 Posted Aug 18 2017 - 02:21

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War_Machine_ver_4 #30 Posted Aug 18 2017 - 04:40

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East coast was always better because most players were pretty good in comparison to west coast players. I mean, really, if anyone has ever endured one match and see all the stupidity that went on in there then you know what I mean. Yeah granted, you did see some stupidity on east coast, however, it was not as bad as the west coast losers! 

Now they are merging east and west, probably due to reduced number of players. One would have to wonder why? But still, I think it is a bad move because now other players like myself have to deal with these same losers that always go to west coast and screw up everything for every one else. Perhaps it is time to move on, don't know as I am contemplating that one!



Michael_Cochrane_2017 #31 Posted Aug 18 2017 - 16:12

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View PostWar_Machine_ver_4, on Aug 18 2017 - 04:40, said:

East coast was always better because most players were pretty good in comparison to west coast players. I mean, really, if anyone has ever endured one match and see all the stupidity that went on in there then you know what I mean. Yeah granted, you did see some stupidity on east coast, however, it was not as bad as the west coast losers! 

Now they are merging east and west, probably due to reduced number of players. One would have to wonder why? But still, I think it is a bad move because now other players like myself have to deal with these same losers that always go to west coast and screw up everything for every one else. Perhaps it is time to move on, don't know as I am contemplating that one!

 

I don't know about reduced players, whenever I was on the east coast server the numbers were usually up around 14,000.....yes, at 1 or 2 am they'd drop to 8000....but if the west coast didn't have enough players, TFB. 

I have been in the service industry for decades and I will tell you this: if you're losing customers, making matters worse for those you have is a race to the bottom. It is very short sighted thinking and that's the death knell for companies. I forget the exact number but it is something like: it takes x amount of money to keep your existing customers, it takes 10x as much to get new ones. 

 

Michael_Cochrane_2017 #32 Posted Aug 18 2017 - 16:20

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View Postrufus374, on Aug 17 2017 - 18:23, said:

Car manufacturers have an exacting supply chain, standardized vehicle specs, equipment and product testing, whereas WGNA has no control over anything beyond their own server equipment and hosting services.  You must remember that individual players' computers, modems, ISPs, or routing to/from their servers can each impact a player's ability to access and play in a manner that each deems acceptable.  Hell, I used to have serious connectivity issues and it turned out to be the old phone lines in my house.

 

I feel that WGNA has done an admirable job with this merge, while acknowledging that there will be a portion of the player base that is negatively affected.  They even went so far as to explicitly give instructions on how to provide constructive feedback and data to help them improve the experience for all of us.

 

I can respect that there are many that are unhappy with this change, but for the love of PETE, let's at least allow them to have the server up for more than 24 hours before we declare it the end of the world.  By all means, lets hold WGNA responsible if there are issues within their scope of control, while not demanding their heads on a pike every time that someone has lag, packet loss or can't connect when that issue might be beyond their control.

 

Well, I had game hangs twice last night, and when I went to do the online survey they were only concerned with PING....this had nothing to do with ping rate....also numerous times the disappearing tanks, etc etc etc.

One thing for certain: if what you're about to do negatively affects ANY of your customers, don't do it. If you want to test it, ask for volunteers to try it before you force it on your customers. THEN work out the bugs.....

BTW: yes, we CAN demand their head on a pike when they have a smooth operation and then mess it up. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! 

People have gotten short tempered with this practice after years of having to deal with it by "computer nerds" who think they know it all.....Google is a prime example of that.....Windows another, with every improvement they make, they just create more problems. 

 



___Warhawk___ #33 Posted Aug 18 2017 - 16:49

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View PostRedwave11, on Aug 17 2017 - 09:06, said:

 

I really hope you can manage all that latency.....

I don't know how people have even above 500wn8 with more than 60ms

 

I managed 3300 recent with 170 ping until the server merge. 

 

Now its sitting at 270 and I can't play for my life. I need a server transfer to the EU server since I live in the UK. 



rufus374 #34 Posted Aug 18 2017 - 17:28

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View PostMichael_Cochrane_2017, on Aug 18 2017 - 10:20, said:

 

Well, I had game hangs twice last night, and when I went to do the online survey they were only concerned with PING....this had nothing to do with ping rate....also numerous times the disappearing tanks, etc etc etc.

One thing for certain: if what you're about to do negatively affects ANY of your customers, don't do it. If you want to test it, ask for volunteers to try it before you force it on your customers. THEN work out the bugs.....

BTW: yes, we CAN demand their head on a pike when they have a smooth operation and then mess it up. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! 

People have gotten short tempered with this practice after years of having to deal with it by "computer nerds" who think they know it all.....Google is a prime example of that.....Windows another, with every improvement they make, they just create more problems. 

 

 

I think you're being a bit myopic on this, as I don't think any of the general player base is privy to the type, volume or duration of pre-merge testing that WG performed.  To act as if this was just done by the seat of their pants is a bit cynical, in my opinion.  I will directly acknowledge that there have been significant issues for many of the players as a result of the merge.  But I also feel that WG should be given a reasonable amount of time (more than 48 hours) to remedy those issues for as many affected as they can.

 

However, as an owner of a small business, your claim that "if what you're about to do negatively affects ANY of your customers, don't do it" doesn't ring true from my experience.  Every change has the potential to negatively impact customers, but changes are necessary.  If I decide to discontinue a product line because it is no longer in demand by a majority of my customers or is no longer profitable, then I will make that change even though I know that there will be consequences.  

 

I guess I'm just lucky that my customers don't have a forum sponsored by my company to come to and rant and rage any time they are unhappy.  

 

Also, There are many recent examples of major companies making changes that displeased a part of their customers.  Ford discontinued the Mercury line and GM did the same to Pontiac, even though there are sure to be many die-hard enthusiasts for each brand out there that were angry about that.  Things change, that is a fact.  

 

I'm sure that we'll continue to be on opposite sides of this issue, but I appreciate the dialogue and debate.  Good luck and Happy Hunting (unless you're a RED)!



black_colt #35 Posted Aug 18 2017 - 18:10

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View Postrufus374, on Aug 18 2017 - 08:28, said:

 

I think you're being a bit myopic on this, as I don't think any of the general player base is privy to the type, volume or duration of pre-merge testing that WG performed.  To act as if this was just done by the seat of their pants is a bit cynical, in my opinion.  I will directly acknowledge that there have been significant issues for many of the players as a result of the merge.  But I also feel that WG should be given a reasonable amount of time (more than 48 hours) to remedy those issues for as many affected as they can.

 

However, as an owner of a small business, your claim that "if what you're about to do negatively affects ANY of your customers, don't do it" doesn't ring true from my experience.  Every change has the potential to negatively impact customers, but changes are necessary.  If I decide to discontinue a product line because it is no longer in demand by a majority of my customers or is no longer profitable, then I will make that change even though I know that there will be consequences.  

 

I guess I'm just lucky that my customers don't have a forum sponsored by my company to come to and rant and rage any time they are unhappy.  

 

Also, There are many recent examples of major companies making changes that displeased a part of their customers.  Ford discontinued the Mercury line and GM did the same to Pontiac, even though there are sure to be many die-hard enthusiasts for each brand out there that were angry about that.  Things change, that is a fact.  

 

I'm sure that we'll continue to be on opposite sides of this issue, but I appreciate the dialogue and debate.  Good luck and Happy Hunting (unless you're a RED)!

 

Exactly - what is happening is that some individuals are expressing emotion and anecdotal experience and then try to pass them off as data.

 

Data is facts and statistics collected together for reference and analysis - e.g. a graph and spreadsheet showing the past 300 battles where a Tier VIII vehicle was placed in the bottom tier 80 percent of the time to backup their theory.

 

As for debates I am surprised at the lack of research, the basing of arguments on emotion versus logic, the lack of focus on the task at hand, the personal attacks versus attacking the argument, presenting logical fallacies and weak arguments and then getting their knickers in a twist when those are questioned, and the lack of handling of defeat and victory appropriately in the Forums.

 

IMHO the game has made some significant progress in terms of Wargaming admitting that they have made mistakes in the past for various reasons, being much more open on the background drivers in regards to future plans, instituting more public announcements, having more staff members in the Forums helping individuals, being on camera for discussion, and most importantly publicly admitting mistakes and prominently posting that for all to see.

 


Edited by black_colt, Aug 18 2017 - 18:34.


Macras #36 Posted Aug 18 2017 - 18:11

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Neh, sorry. I'm a complainer too.

 

I went from 275 to 300 ms on the west server(used to be 300 plus on east) to 350 plus on the new server, with lots of spikes and stuttering too.


 

Its OK for you to say don't complain, you can still play. So can I , I guess, but that difference on top of an already slow connection is very noticeable. It may be playable(just) but  I found it totally un-enjoyable.

I pay for this game, and as far as I am concerned if they make changes that mean the game is now unplayable, then I want a refund on money spent. Prem tanks aren't worth crapif I cant use them.


 

Ill give them time to fix it, but if it stays like this, I'm going to be very vocal about it and I will be encouraging everyone else to do the same.


 



black_colt #37 Posted Aug 18 2017 - 18:31

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View PostMacras, on Aug 18 2017 - 09:11, said:

Neh, sorry. I'm a complainer too.

 

I went from 275 to 300 ms on the west server(used to be 300 plus on east) to 350 plus on the new server, with lots of spikes and stuttering too.


 

Its OK for you to say don't complain, you can still play. So can I , I guess, but that difference on top of an already slow connection is very noticeable. It may be playable(just) but  I found it totally un-enjoyable.

I pay for this game, and as far as I am concerned if they make changes that mean the game is now unplayable, then I want a refund on money spent. Prem tanks aren't worth crapif I cant use them.


 

Ill give them time to fix it, but if it stays like this, I'm going to be very vocal about it and I will be encouraging everyone else to do the same.


 

 

So why are you not encouraging individuals to raise Support Ticket as requested by Wargaming and reference the following when asking them to submit?

 

For any player, there is the potential to have a slower connection based on their distance and routing to our servers. We will be optimizing our connections to all locations, and its very important to provide a playable experience to players on the NA server. The best thing any player can do is fill out our survey that will be available after the server merge if they are having difficulty with connection or gameplay quality. This includes tankers from Latin America!

 

Server Merge Survey

 

For me, the Central Server is better because of fairly consistent in-battle FPS, ping [even though it increased], and lowered queue times.  This is not something I expected since I live less than 100 km from former NA West server. 

 

Not sure why you have the expectation that the game is refundable - did you not read the EULA and Terms of Service you agreed to when you clicked-through to play the game when that dialog box was presented?  

 

And before you respond about court action you should really research past court cases as they are not favorable in terms to ruling the EULA and/or Terms of Service invalid simply because you think it should be.

 

As for spending legal currency, you chose to do so.  The game does not REQUIRE you to pay legal currency to play - therefore it is a free-to-play game.  Now whether spending legal currency makes the game more enjoyable - that is a different debate topic.  The fact still remains you do not need to pay legal currency to play.

 



CptObvi0us #38 Posted Aug 18 2017 - 19:14

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Lol. Jesus people. First off, game is not dead. If you're not happy, don't play. If you are, play. I live in AZ and my ping went up to 60 at game start and 35-40 during game. Don't even notice it. MM last night was the best it has been in a long time with only 1 of 35 games completely lopsided. It's never going to be perfect for everyone but I enjoy it and have no problem playing or purchasing prem time/tanks. 

 

Also after reading a lot of responses here....make sure your network settings and equipment are up to date, you have a decent ISP with a good connection and updated PC & drivers. Some of these ping times you are talking about are like 1998 Unreal dial-up status...

 

Just my 2c


Edited by CptObvi0us, Aug 18 2017 - 19:41.


time2reload #39 Posted Aug 18 2017 - 20:19

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I said it in another thread and will repeat it here:

 

When I Run speedtest.net I get a 20-40ms ping.  Fire up WOT since the merger and I get 400+ most of the time with short periods where it might get down below 100 ms and frequent periods where it goes over 600 ms.  The game is unplayable for me.  I even rebooted my router and my computer.  My system drivers are up to date.  If it helps any I am playing in the greater Huntsville, AL area.  I am on AT&T's network.  I am hardwired (not Wi-Fi) into the router.  My pings on the eastern server before the merger were usually in the 30-50ms range on the western server 90-130ms.  i would not mind a 10-20ms increase as that would be what I had back at my old address.  But I have over an order of magnitude worst ping.  I will give it a few more days to work itself out but if it stays that high I will probably stop playing not because I want to but a half second delay makes the game horribly un-enjoyable to play.  I will give it some time.



buzz6 #40 Posted Aug 18 2017 - 22:19

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Since I am allowed an opinion, I must be a complainer. But in the USA we tend to be somewhat spoiled and have real choices, not just a take it or leave it option. So far, I am taking it, but it is not as much fun as it once was. Ping now runs around 100 -120, with 15 - 18 fps, and I cannot blame Spectrum for the change from 40 - 60, with 25 - 35 fps. I enjoy the game, but the change affects my already meager skills -and not in a good way.




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