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Lexers615 #21 Posted Aug 29 2017 - 03:05

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View PostJEDIDIEUGH, on Aug 28 2017 - 20:05, said:

Did you just assume I play like a bot and sit still once I get spotted? I literally spend the majority of my time playing light tanks and when you get hit by arty going 50-60 kph from 1000 meters away can be REALLY frustrating.

I play high tier arties nearly on a daily basis and what you are telling barely ever happens, unless you are talking about a modder who's got aimbot equivalent for arties and you were driving on a very very very linear path. Without even talking about the huge dispersion and the fact the arty shells are the soles that actually can land outside their indicated dispersion circle, they take up to 4-5s to reach their 1km away target, do the math...

 

View PostJEDIDIEUGH, on Aug 28 2017 - 20:05, said:

You've confused me... You said that arty is balanced against camping (basically means you believe the slogan 'arty prevents camping' ) and OP top tiers. Arty is literally the biggest cause of camping because everyone is afraid of getting hit by arty. Also "OP top tiers"? Like what the UDES,Patriot, tier 10 tanks etc.? If that's a problem just play tier 9 and up.

 

Note: My experience with artillery is a very bad one. I get focused down even  if I'm not the first one spotted.

Mostly fallacy there... As I just wrote, arty shells are the ones with the lowest velocity, so hitting a target in movement requires skills/mods/extreme luck. Hitting stationary targets (snipers, campers, arties, etc...) is possible because campers are used to their usual campfire locations (like hill in Fiery Stalient, or "that-rock-in-the-middle-of-nowhere-that-can-house-four-campers" in just about every map), which arty players are too, and we adjust accordingly... So, again unless you are talking about one of the "pros" with all the mods in the market, arty can effectively only hit slow moving or stationary targets or "maybe" linearly moving targets with luck. Anything else is only a source of frustration for arties... Campers on the other hand hate having to leave their campfires because of arty fires...

 

Besides, the artificially created arty whining (which modders started to defocus the debate away from modding) spreads "misconceptions" (i.e.: lies) that arties can see anyone, that we can hit anything, that we can oneshot any tank, etc... and resulted in the recent nerf in which most arties lost about 40% of their damage power (either through the raw damage potential, or WG's nerfing of the splash damage calculation on the server side) for the added stunning effect (which is clearly overrated but should have been added a while ago for every high caliber bounces... Your T29 crew may not even feel the chaingun shell bounces, but no way it won't suffer shock from a KV2 AP shell bouncing...)



JEDIDIEUGH #22 Posted Aug 29 2017 - 07:29

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View PostLexers615, on Aug 28 2017 - 18:05, said:

I play high tier arties nearly on a daily basis and what you are telling barely ever happens, unless you are talking about a modder who's got aimbot equivalent for arties and you were driving on a very very very linear path. Without even talking about the huge dispersion and the fact the arty shells are the soles that actually can land outside their indicated dispersion circle, they take up to 4-5s to reach their 1km away target, do the math...

 

Mostly fallacy there... As I just wrote, arty shells are the ones with the lowest velocity, so hitting a target in movement requires skills/mods/extreme luck. Hitting stationary targets (snipers, campers, arties, etc...) is possible because campers are used to their usual campfire locations (like hill in Fiery Stalient, or "that-rock-in-the-middle-of-nowhere-that-can-house-four-campers" in just about every map), which arty players are too, and we adjust accordingly... So, again unless you are talking about one of the "pros" with all the mods in the market, arty can effectively only hit slow moving or stationary targets or "maybe" linearly moving targets with luck. Anything else is only a source of frustration for arties... Campers on the other hand hate having to leave their campfires because of arty fires...

 

Besides, the artificially created arty whining (which modders started to defocus the debate away from modding) spreads "misconceptions" (i.e.: lies) that arties can see anyone, that we can hit anything, that we can oneshot any tank, etc... and resulted in the recent nerf in which most arties lost about 40% of their damage power (either through the raw damage potential, or WG's nerfing of the splash damage calculation on the server side) for the added stunning effect (which is clearly overrated but should have been added a while ago for every high caliber bounces... Your T29 crew may not even feel the chaingun shell bounces, but no way it won't suffer shock from a KV2 AP shell bouncing...)

 

Since you play mostly high tier artillery, you will not have experienced getting hit or stun by enemy arty. The arty shell doesn't need to HIT the target to damage/cripple. Yes arty can be inaccurate most of the time, but more than half the time  (after 9.18 anyways)  the shell will do stun damage and sometimes splash damage. Now this may not seem to be that big a problem, but if you're stunned and you're trying to get in a shot ( as goes for running away dodging shots, reloading in time to kill any enemy, etc.) and you miss. That could mean the end of your tank or possibly the match. 

  How many people do you think use an aimbot on the NA server? My guess is around 1000. Do you really think that illegal mods are that big a problem? 

  "Campers hate having to leave their campfires because of arty fires." Ok. Well doesn't that describe the exact situation I stated before? The reason why people camp is mainly due to the fact they dont want to get 300-500 damage taken away from them for simply being spotted.

   The only reason why arty is in the game is so that bad players can pretend to be good by clicking your left mouse button and tapping w every now and then. 

   Also your idea for High Caliber Bounces that cause shock literally makes no sense from any standpoint. Tanks in this game vary in height, weight, shape, etc., so the developers would have to figure out how long the crew should be stunned per tank.

PS: Hope you enjoyed reading this in red as it is probably the only color your wn8 will be if you play how you preach.



Komitadjie #23 Posted Aug 29 2017 - 14:10

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I play mid tier arty quite a bit, and I get a real laugh out of a lot of the complaining. I really wonder sometimes if I'm playing the same tanks as the guys complaining are fighting against!

I have a load time about double the same gun on a turret mount, half or less the pen, double the dispersion, triple the aiming time, all strapped to a vehicle that is so slow, unarmored and defenseless that it's cold meat for tanks two tiers lower that get anywhere close.  The listed DPM is decent, but in practice you'll be very hard pressed to get a quarter of the listed damage due to the abysmal accuracy and extremely low likelihood of your shell actually penning to do it's listed "average" damage.  Once in a great while you'll land one right in the top of a hostile arty or TD, though, and get a full damage roll.  That's an awesome moment.  Most of the time, though, you'll find yourself blasting away at targets you're only able to do a couple hundred damage to, and then usually only if they're stopped, because your shell takes in excess of two seconds to reach it's target.  Upon which point it will most often splash them with some minor damage and maybe track them for a few seconds.

On the other hand, if you move up (which is painfully slow and dangerous, thanks to the abysmal mobility and office-building-like camo they've given SPGs, you can sometimes get some excellent angled shots against the guys trying to hide in the shadows of rocks from your spawn.  

My conclusion? I haven't bribed the right wargaming employee for one of the much-salt-upon death-ray guns for my SPG! :D

Chalybos #24 Posted Aug 30 2017 - 13:33

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View PostKomitadjie, on Aug 29 2017 - 08:10, said:

I play mid tier arty quite a bit, and I get a real laugh out of a lot of the complaining. I really wonder sometimes if I'm playing the same tanks as the guys complaining are fighting against!

I have a load time about double the same gun on a turret mount, half or less the pen, double the dispersion, triple the aiming time, all strapped to a vehicle that is so slow, unarmored and defenseless that it's cold meat for tanks two tiers lower that get anywhere close. The listed DPM is decent, but in practice you'll be very hard pressed to get a quarter of the listed damage due to the abysmal accuracy and extremely low likelihood of your shell actually penning to do it's listed "average" damage. Once in a great while you'll land one right in the top of a hostile arty or TD, though, and get a full damage roll. That's an awesome moment. Most of the time, though, you'll find yourself blasting away at targets you're only able to do a couple hundred damage to, and then usually only if they're stopped, because your shell takes in excess of two seconds to reach it's target. Upon which point it will most often splash them with some minor damage and maybe track them for a few seconds.

On the other hand, if you move up (which is painfully slow and dangerous, thanks to the abysmal mobility and office-building-like camo they've given SPGs, you can sometimes get some excellent angled shots against the guys trying to hide in the shadows of rocks from your spawn.

My conclusion? I haven't bribed the right wargaming employee for one of the much-salt-upon death-ray guns for my SPG! :D

 

Wait until you get the M40/M43.  

Komitadjie #25 Posted Aug 30 2017 - 14:00

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Looking forward to it! I'm working on getting the FV304 and the GW Panther right now.  I'm wanting the 304 to play in platoons, so I can deliver more useful supporting fire.  No stun and terrible damage, though, so I'll have to see if that's actually effective or not.  Seems like it should be, though. Go with the heavies and poke at the reds just the other side of the hill crest, etc.

Chalybos #26 Posted Aug 30 2017 - 16:43

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View PostKomitadjie, on Aug 30 2017 - 08:00, said:

Looking forward to it! I'm working on getting the FV304 and the GW Panther right now. I'm wanting the 304 to play in platoons, so I can deliver more useful supporting fire. No stun and terrible damage, though, so I'll have to see if that's actually effective or not. Seems like it should be, though. Go with the heavies and poke at the reds just the other side of the hill crest, etc.

 

304's biggest assets are its speed, and the mortar-like angle that it can drop shells down on.  With a competent driver, it can definitely be trollish when supporting a scouting/spotting platoonmate from behind cover when they've got someone else pinned down.  The ability to get in & get out fairly quickly is offset by the very short range, allowing you to kind of play it like a TD.  Just don't get point-blank with anyone, or you'll watch your round shoot right over them (comical, almost Bugs Bunny-like) and you'll be dead before you reload.  If you've ever played the older Battlefield games, it's like using a noobtube to support a squad push.  

The M40/M43 though, moderate mobility and still has impressive firepower.  It's my go-to for platoon arty support in tier 8.

 

 



Komitadjie #27 Posted Aug 30 2017 - 17:13

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View PostChalybos, on Aug 30 2017 - 16:43, said:

 

304's biggest assets are its speed, and the mortar-like angle that it can drop shells down on.  With a competent driver, it can definitely be trollish when supporting a scouting/spotting platoonmate from behind cover when they've got someone else pinned down.  The ability to get in & get out fairly quickly is offset by the very short range, allowing you to kind of play it like a TD.  Just don't get point-blank with anyone, or you'll watch your round shoot right over them (comical, almost Bugs Bunny-like) and you'll be dead before you reload.  If you've ever played the older Battlefield games, it's like using a noobtube to support a squad push.  

The M40/M43 though, moderate mobility and still has impressive firepower.  It's my go-to for platoon arty support in tier 8.

 

 

 

That's more or less what I'm hoping for, I want to be able to follow the platoon or push up, stop behind cover just out of render range, and start raining shells on the reds they've got behind the hill crest, around the rock, etc.  It seems like it would be a LOT more playable on the bulk of the funnel maps that are prevalent, where a more standard arty is just kinda hosed.



_GeorgePreddy #28 Posted Aug 30 2017 - 18:01

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View PostLexers615, on Aug 24 2017 - 03:11, said:

 

arty is one of the the sole soures of balance vs camping and OP top tiers...

 

Haaaaa-ha !   This is true comedy gold !  Next you'll be saying something like "Arty promotes dynamic gameplay"... hahahahahahahahahahaha, my sides are splitting.

Chalybos #29 Posted Aug 30 2017 - 21:35

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View PostKomitadjie, on Aug 30 2017 - 11:13, said:

 

That's more or less what I'm hoping for, I want to be able to follow the platoon or push up, stop behind cover just out of render range, and start raining shells on the reds they've got behind the hill crest, around the rock, etc.  It seems like it would be a LOT more playable on the bulk of the funnel maps that are prevalent, where a more standard arty is just kinda hosed.

 

It is.  Actually, the British arty line in general has a lot of advantages over the other lines in that respect.  Up & over when it comes to structures, with the shorter range requiring some more risky positioning to get shells into those sweet spots.  Best platoon support arty, though.

nicodeimous #30 Posted Aug 30 2017 - 21:47

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View PostEmmaRizzi112, on Aug 21 2017 - 01:32, said:

I want to play through an arty line, but I don't know which one would be better. I really liked my brothers M43, But he sold it, So I kind of want to get that one.

 

Go for RoF and Gun Arc over perceived alpha in the current iteration of artillery.  You want to maximize your stun time during the match, target the slow rollers and grouped tanks - shy away from the speedy ones.  Made my run up the American line after the 9.18 artillery changes, I liked the m44 so I figured why not and all of them have good arcs of fire.  Previously I had only gone up to the S-51 and GW Panther to complete the campaign missions.

 



Lexers615 #31 Posted Aug 31 2017 - 00:04

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View PostJEDIDIEUGH, on Aug 29 2017 - 01:29, said:

 

Since you play mostly high tier artillery, you will not have experienced getting hit or stun by enemy arty. The arty shell doesn't need to HIT the target to damage/cripple. Yes arty can be inaccurate most of the time, but more than half the time  (after 9.18 anyways)  the shell will do stun damage and sometimes splash damage. Now this may not seem to be that big a problem, but if you're stunned and you're trying to get in a shot ( as goes for running away dodging shots, reloading in time to kill any enemy, etc.) and you miss. That could mean the end of your tank or possibly the match. 

  How many people do you think use an aimbot on the NA server? My guess is around 1000. Do you really think that illegal mods are that big a problem? 

  "Campers hate having to leave their campfires because of arty fires." Ok. Well doesn't that describe the exact situation I stated before? The reason why people camp is mainly due to the fact they dont want to get 300-500 damage taken away from them for simply being spotted.

   The only reason why arty is in the game is so that bad players can pretend to be good by clicking your left mouse button and tapping w every now and then. 

   Also your idea for High Caliber Bounces that cause shock literally makes no sense from any standpoint. Tanks in this game vary in height, weight, shape, etc., so the developers would have to figure out how long the crew should be stunned per tank.

PS: Hope you enjoyed reading this in red as it is probably the only color your wn8 will be if you play how you preach.

 

lol!!! Getting salty already? Aimbot and all of its variants is used by like half of the tiers VII+ players, including yourself... According to your stats, you're a true Aimbot vet...

 

A modder trying to troll using Win8? That's super common dude...

 

Calling arty players clickers? What da fock you think you are with Aimbot? Hella clicker, but in the trashy way...

 

All the garbage you belched other than that isn't worth wasting my time...



Lexers615 #32 Posted Aug 31 2017 - 00:07

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View Post_GeorgePreddy, on Aug 30 2017 - 12:01, said:

 

Haaaaa-ha !   This is true comedy gold !  Next you'll be saying something like "Arty promotes dynamic gameplay"... hahahahahahahahahahaha, my sides are splitting.

 

It does not, but it's a cure vs the camping disease spreading...

Kenshin2kx #33 Posted Aug 31 2017 - 00:08

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View PostJEDIDIEUGH, on Aug 21 2017 - 18:27, said:

 

Anti arty trolls?

What's wrong with hating an unbalanced aspect of the game? 

 

Universal subjective logic ... the opponent to what one holds dear becomes the enemy.  

Komitadjie #34 Posted Aug 31 2017 - 14:47

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View PostChalybos, on Aug 30 2017 - 21:35, said:

 

It is.  Actually, the British arty line in general has a lot of advantages over the other lines in that respect.  Up & over when it comes to structures, with the shorter range requiring some more risky positioning to get shells into those sweet spots.  Best platoon support arty, though.

 

That's pretty much what I want, so it seems like an ideal choice! I tend to play more mobile arty anyway, if far rather delay my first couple rounds to get into a good position. I'd actually play a lot more mobile if all the other arty wasn't so darn slow to get anywhere! 

 

I have no problem with short range, as long as it comes in a package that's fast enough that I can move up and back as required. Bonus for being able to escape a collapsing flank and go help your remaining tanks, instead of just getting run down immediately!



JEDIDIEUGH #35 Posted Aug 31 2017 - 14:59

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View PostLexers615, on Aug 30 2017 - 15:04, said:

 

lol!!! Getting salty already? Aimbot and all of its variants is used by like half of the tiers VII+ players, including yourself... According to your stats, you're a true Aimbot vet...

 

A modder trying to troll using Win8? That's super common dude...

 

Calling arty players clickers? What da fock you think you are with Aimbot? Hella clicker, but in the trashy way...

 

All the garbage you belched other than that isn't worth wasting my time...

 

You probably haven't even seen my stats as the sig I use is fake, but I will take no more of your time because I don't argue with people whose IQ is less than 30. Bye

 



Lexers615 #36 Posted Oct 12 2017 - 10:08

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View PostJEDIDIEUGH, on Aug 31 2017 - 08:59, said:

 

You probably haven't even seen my stats as the sig I use is fake, but I will take no more of your time because I don't argue with people whose IQ is less than 30. Bye

 

 

I doubt it, as you must have single digit IQ, you got to be arguing with yourself quite a lot...

dunniteowl #37 Posted Oct 12 2017 - 15:04

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I play German, US, UK and Russian units in SPGs.  So far, honestly, of these the Brits are superior in overall accuracy, damage, mobility and arc.  I honestly really like the T5 Bishop and it's younger line mate, the Birch Gun (T4)  .  As for the US line, they are all relatively decent in terms of mobility, though they take turns at losing important aspects of aiming, load time or accuracy.  I liked the M37, though it was tough to get a good line and remain effective in it.  The current T5 M41 HMC I think I actually hate.  I hear they get better as you go higher, although I'm not a fan of my already long 21s reload time on that thing.  In the current setup, that's like four shots before the LTs and fast TDs come kill me.

 

I'd wager, that the Russian line is decent, though up to tier III I have yet to see ANY of that so-called Russian Bias on any tank, much less with SPGs.  I am doing okay in the Russky SPGs, though that is due to the experience of playing arty regularly, not through any special aspect of the Russian Line.

 

The German arty sucked up to tier III, which is good, because that's only 2 units.  The Pz Sfl IVb is just about the best tier 4 arty I've seen.  It's got great range, decent reload, a nice wide stationary arc (not too wide, mind you, though decent) and reasonable view range for an SPG to keep you from being too surprised by your oncoming LTs and TDs.  Mobility-wise, it takes a few seconds to get going, but once going you can move decently and you can use the brake & turn keys to snap around in it.


 

I don't know when I'll stop playing SPGs, maybe when they're removed.  I play all classes, because that's how I roll.  I like the SPGs in general and do think it lends another aspect to the game that many, though they may not like it, should learn to appreciate more for what it does to the overall game play dynamics.  Those fast burners hate arty, because they can get taken on the move.


 

Yet, arty, apparently, can be played one-handed, while eating Cheetos and watching videos on YT while playing by a complete tomato and make these incredibly "lucky" skill-less shots.  Long reloads, poor overall mobility and range, crap dispersion and aiming accuracy, yet, somehow, these are the 'go-to' units for the baddies.


 

Something's really wrong with someone's logic centers, if you look at what's said and the results that can be observed.


 

Don't listen to the naysayers until they start making actual sense.


 

GL, HF & HSYBF



stalkervision #38 Posted Oct 12 2017 - 15:34

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British arty is great for accuracy and high angle of attack in city maps.

Darkbee2Bee #39 Posted Oct 12 2017 - 15:49

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View PostLexers615, on Aug 30 2017 - 18:04, said:

 

Aimbot and all of its variants is used by like half of the tiers VII+ players, including yourself... According to your stats, you're a true Aimbot vet...

 

Where are these stats available?

xSzikll #40 Posted Oct 12 2017 - 16:19

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View PostLexers615, on Aug 23 2017 - 21:11, said:

 

arty is one of the the sole soures of balance vs camping and OP top tiers...

 

Tell me how the sky cancer prevents camping when shooting light tanks at max speed.




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