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is harm finally dead


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TheLaggyFox #1 Posted Sep 09 2017 - 00:11

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please zemke tell me it is so

Ironmike11B #2 Posted Sep 09 2017 - 00:20

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Holy Shnikes!! D-0-S still exists??

Strike_Witch_Tomoko #3 Posted Sep 09 2017 - 00:25

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View PostTheLaggyFox, on Sep 08 2017 - 16:11, said:

please zemke tell me it is so

 

zemke's retired.  he's got nothing to do with any of this.

as for HARM.  who knows

 

prior to last night. HARM was mostly inactive(rare to see a team)

2HARM was active (3 teams per night, dominating CW.   was in 6th place) and doing well

HARMZ was and still is active(3 teams per night, also doing well in CW)

 

but after the drama last night...

long story short, Harm leader tried to put wn8 requirements on 2harm, who for the past few months had been operating on activity and participation instead of wn8 (We tried wn8 in january and march...and both times it led to inactive and infighting)

 

so 2HARM leadership told him that we wouldn't (and the whole clan agreed, somethign harm's leader failed to realize. considering all of 2HARM was aware.  Clan Loyalty means alot to us.)

 

this being the 3rd time he's tried to do this, 2HARM told him to step down from his position, or they would leave.   he said "cya then"

 

and basically all of 2HARM followed 2HARM leadership,   along with the actives in HARM(who were tired of harm leader ranting at them.   to be fair, considering how inactive harm was.....it shows how bad the quality of the leader was. ;)

 

HARM leader got pissed after 40 had left. and kicked 33 from clan.

 

we're reforming into our own clan right now...or 2 clans(yeah.....we have alot of people who came with us X.x   alot more than expected,  and we still have more coming over)

 

 

 

 

as for HARM Nation

2HARM is now dead.  all actives (minus its new leader....who choose to trash talk everyone who left, and caused more to leave.  great leadership style buddy)

HARM is inactive....again.  as all actives left.

 

and a few might still leave.

but HARM naiton is alive in HARMZ and HARMD.  but its still a major blow.

 

 

 

we thinking of a name. Kazoo maybe.

 

 

 

Moral of this: don't mess with a clan who values loyalty and friendship.  we stick together.

 



Hawx_ #4 Posted Sep 09 2017 - 00:26

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It is somewhat, but not nearly as dead as D0S.

TankSchu #5 Posted Sep 09 2017 - 00:58

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HARM Nation will never die. The founder's of the clan are still very much invested, and in control, in/of what's going on, even though some aren't as active much due to real life, loss of interest, etc etc.  What happened to cause the rift wasn't anything new from how the clan has always been run. Some people got upset about it because policies were pretty lax for a long time, and were starting to get enforced again.

 

Talking about loyalty over friendship? Come on. HARM has been nothing but a model for loyalty and class. No one threatens the nation with blackmail. "Do this or else"... always leads to taking the "or else" option. The mass exodus proceeded, and then a bunch of people were kicked. Those kicked weren't done so by Command, but by those who left; and they also thought it would be fun to schedule battles that 2HARM and HARM couldn't cover, and forced us to take penalties. Class act right there. Please don't spread rumors.

 

HARM Nation has survived many exodus' before, we'll survive this one, and we'll continue to survive.


Edited by TankSchu, Sep 09 2017 - 01:00.


Silversound #6 Posted Sep 09 2017 - 01:03

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Bummer. I enjoy seeing clans succeed.

 

I wish you guys well and from all of us in GUNS mad repect for all of the work.



Hellsfog #7 Posted Sep 09 2017 - 01:04

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Kazoo?



Strike_Witch_Tomoko #8 Posted Sep 09 2017 - 01:08

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View PostTankSchu, on Sep 08 2017 - 16:58, said:

HARM Nation will never die. The founder's of the clan are still very much invested, and in control, in/of what's going on, even though some aren't as active much due to real life, loss of interest, etc etc.  What happened to cause the rift wasn't anything new from how the clan has always been run. Some people got upset about it because policies were pretty lax for a long time, and were starting to get enforced again.

 

Talking about loyalty over friendship? Come on. HARM has been nothing but a model for loyalty and class. No one threatens the nation with blackmail. "Do this or else"... always leads to taking the "or else" option. The mass exodus proceeded, and then a bunch of people were kicked. Those kicked weren't done so by Command, but by those who left; and they also thought it would be fun to schedule battles that 2HARM and HARM couldn't cover, and forced us to take penalties. Class act right there. Please don't spread rumors.

 

HARM Nation has survived many exodus' before, we'll survive this one, and we'll continue to survive.

 

feel free to ask the members who left, and see for yourself.

we couldn't(nor would we) kick anyone, keep in mind Nochos and Airborne left prior to any of this.  who was left with kick powers?  camn's alt aaaaannnnd......kage.

 



Belize_UBstudent #9 Posted Sep 09 2017 - 01:09

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So much drama and am never around to see it 

garrison_flynn #10 Posted Sep 09 2017 - 01:28

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All of us are saddened by the turn of events. Rest assured that HARM Nation will carry on,

I will not feed the rumor mill, each person has an opinion.

To those who left--Good luck on your newly chosen path, Kill Red Tanks!!

To those who remain loyal to HARM Nation, I say thank you, and ----- Kill Red Tanks--For HARM Nation!!!!

HarmZ is still on the chipping the Global map, and remains unaffected by recent events.

HarmD is doing it's job with Advancements, and will soon be joining us on Global Map.

HARM Main is going to be back on the map in a couple days, and as usual, should not be underestimated.

Anyone in any Clan knows that sh*t happens, from time to time. As such, We in HARM Nation will continue

to treat all tankers we meet on the battlefield, PUBS or CW's, with the usual respect that is in keeping with our traditions


 

on behalf of HARM Nation---

Thanks All for reading this!

See you on the Front!


 


 


 


 


 


Edited by garrison_flynn, Sep 09 2017 - 01:44.


Hawx_ #11 Posted Sep 09 2017 - 01:52

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View PostTankSchu, on Sep 08 2017 - 23:58, said:

HARM Nation will never die. The founder's of the clan are still very much invested, and in control, in/of what's going on, even though some aren't as active much due to real life, loss of interest, etc etc.  What happened to cause the rift wasn't anything new from how the clan has always been run. Some people got upset about it because policies were pretty lax for a long time, and were starting to get enforced again.

 

Talking about loyalty over friendship? Come on. HARM has been nothing but a model for loyalty and class. No one threatens the nation with blackmail. "Do this or else"... always leads to taking the "or else" option. The mass exodus proceeded, and then a bunch of people were kicked. Those kicked weren't done so by Command, but by those who left; and they also thought it would be fun to schedule battles that 2HARM and HARM couldn't cover, and forced us to take penalties. Class act right there. Please don't spread rumors.

 

HARM Nation has survived many exodus' before, we'll survive this one, and we'll continue to survive.

 

Battles werent scheduled by harm that couldn't be covered. We were on the map when we left and someone attacked into us. Dont blame us for that. Also because you feel the need to half explain everything to the forums. I'll give the other side. Smacker, the current commander of HARM main promoted by zemke when he left, Has not been running things as the officers wanted. He has been off and on for attendance due to his job and or computer issues. When he returned he instituted a new policy I wont get into. The important part was HARM main and 2HARM both were opposed to it. It went through anyways and cause a large rift in 2HARM. HARM main could barely field 1 team most days and Smacker showing up yelling at players after battles for screw ups wasn't the main issue causing that, but it didn't help. I was the XO of HARM. I was running everything while Smacker was gone, and running damage control for every one of his policies. Somewhere along the line Both 2HARM and HARM leadership, all of both, agreed enough was enough and went to smacker as a group and told him he had to stop and step-down or we were done. We talked with him for 40+ minutes about what the issues were, why were unhappy with the way he was doing things, etc. He offered to step back but retain the position and come back in lead whenever he saw anything was running wrong. Essentially the same as what was already happening as he was never on anyway. At the end, we told him what would most likely happen if he didn't. HARM leadership and 2HARM leadership would leave. apx. 10 players total. We predicted some members would follow and told him who we thought would. He said "I will rebuild. Harm has gone through it before." He chose his rank as commander over everyone that you have all seen leave HARM nation. Much more left than anticipated. That is our side. I was sad to leave HARM nation after 3 years of being there. It is where I learned the game, and where I made tons of friends. Hated having to leave, but it was a last resort.

Edited by Hawx_, Sep 09 2017 - 01:59.


Vallanor #12 Posted Sep 09 2017 - 01:55

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HARM was dead from the day i joined....

CL1CK3R #13 Posted Sep 09 2017 - 02:00

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View PostHawx_, on Sep 08 2017 - 19:52, said:

 

Battles werent scheduled by harm that couldn't be covered. We were on the map when we left and someone attacked into us. Dont blame us for that. Also because you feel the need to half explain everything to the forums. I'll give the other side. Smacker, the current commander of HARM main promoted by zemke when he left, Has not been running things as the officers wanted. He has been off and on for attendance due to his job and or computer issues. When he returned he instituted a new policy I wont get into. The important part was HARM main and 2HARM both were opposed to it. It went through anyways and cause a large rift in 2HARM. HARM main could barely field 1 team most days and Smacker showing up yelling at players after battles for screw ups wasn't the main issue causing that, but it didn't help. I was the XO of HARM. I was running everything while Smacker was gone, and running damage control for every one of his policies. Somewhere along the line Both 2HARM and HARM leadership, all of both, agreed enough was enough and went to smacker as a group and told him he had to stop and step-down or we were done. We talked with him for 40+ minutes about what the issues were, why were unhappy with the way he was doing things, etc. He offered to step back but retain the position and come back in lead whenever he saw anything was running wrong. Essentially the same as what was already happening as he was never on anyway. At the end, we told him what would most likely happen if he didn't. HARM leadership and 2HARM leadership would leave. apx. 10 players total. We predicted some members would follow and told him who we thought would. He said "I will rebuild. Harm has gone through it before." He chose his rank as commander over everyone that you have all seen leave HARM nation. Much more left than anticipated. That is our side. I was sad to leave HARM nation after 3 years of being there. It is where I learned the game, and where I made tons of friends. Hated having to leave, but it was a last resort.

where is the like button?



Ironmike11B #14 Posted Sep 09 2017 - 02:27

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View PostVallanor, on Sep 08 2017 - 18:55, said:

HARM was dead from the day i joined....

 

Should have stayed in -TDU-!

TankSchu #15 Posted Sep 09 2017 - 16:00

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Look, most of the details are still fuzzy, and I wasn't trying to be all inclusive in some details. Airing out dirty laundry in public is always a bad idea, but being that I'm so loyal to HARM Nation I couldn't stand by idly and just let it slide while HARM Nation was being slandered. Thanks to the OP for making this even a thing :facepalm:. A lot of this is a "he said, she said" kind of deal, and everyone's trying to say only the facts that make themselves look to be in the right; and both sides are guilty of making hasty decisions. It all boils down to that, that no one talked to the founders of the clan before taking action and leaving only one course of action: abandonment of the clan, and HARM Nation having to rebuild... again. Such is the life of any clan. It shrinks and grows continually, and as long as there's people to rebuild, the clan will live on. HARM Nation is lucky that the founders still care after all this time to keep rebuilding.

 

Good luck to those who left. I do wish you luck. I don't hate you for leaving, but am saddened it happened the way it did. Such is life. We all change roads in our lives and sometimes those roads lead to opposing directions. Simple as that.

 

To those who wish to keep slandering each other and pointing fingers, that's the real disappointment. Make a decision and own it. Don't force others to take blame for it. Truth or not doesn't matter. As the saying goes, lie in the bed you make (paraphrased). 


Edited by TankSchu, Sep 09 2017 - 16:00.


CAMN #16 Posted Sep 10 2017 - 03:42

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Oh god, the drama...

 

 

Would hearing from one of the HARM co-founders help to bring light to this? Maybe no, either way I'll try.

 

Lets talk about some facts first:

 

1. No HARM did not dissolve, nor will it ever. We still have 3 more clans with more than enough numbers to pick people from if one day EVERYONE on HARM decided to drop tags.

2. Yes, a group of people left, the numbers range from 15 to 25, it is hard to tell at this point who left to follow the group of officers that left, and who left because they didn't like the drama that kicked up.

3. 2HARM didn't "dissolve" either, but a group of about 30 people in it left, and another group of about 20 got kicked by one of the officers before he left as well. Other people have been dropping tags to move to our other clans. At this point we are not going to focus our efforts in recruiting for that one just yet, so we decided to leave it empty.

4. As far as we can tell, the people who left didn't touch the gold on either HARM or 2HARM on their way out, so at least there is that.

 

This isn't even the first time this happens. In fact, I count three instances in the past 5 years where the results were similar to the current situation. We lost a bunch of people because someone decided to bring drama into the clan. We just pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and carry on. Hell, it even made me create a new TS avatar to commemorate the occasion:

 

 

Does it suck that it happen, of course, it's a pain in the [edited]to have to recruit a bunch of new people and have them get used to the way we operate. But it is not the end of anything really, we are not going to change much from it, just some old faces being gone and new faces coming in to replace them. The officers core is pretty much old faces from all over HARM Nation, so that won't even change at all.

 

View PostStrike_Witch_Tomoko, on Sep 08 2017 - 18:55, said:

HARM leader got pissed after 40 had left. and kicked 33 from clan.

 

Amber (or Strike Witch as you call yourself now), you've been in and out of HARM at least three times in the past, so It was a little surprising that you are willing to put your trust on people like the ones who created the drama in the first place... but that is beyon the point. Those people who got kicked out of 2HARM were kicked by one of the officers who left, no one in HARM had anything to do with it, simply because no one in HARM had the power to kick anyone in 2HARM. Only Zemke can, and he hasn't been around in quite a while now.

 

Even if Smacker had the power to kick people, why would he? Doing that was beyond moronic. We even had Kage send PMs to everyone who got kicked, because they were joining in on TS asking what the hell happened. We got some of them back, others decided to just stay out of all the drama (can't fault them for that). The fact is, one of your "friends" you left with, decided to kick about 20 people out of 2HARM before he himself dropped tags.

 

View PostStrike_Witch_Tomoko, on Sep 08 2017 - 18:55, said:

(minus its new leader....who choose to trash talk everyone who left, and caused more to leave.  great leadership style buddy)

 

Haven't heard anyone talking crapabout anyone to be honest, but it would be your word against mine, and neither of it matters at this point.

 

View PostStrike_Witch_Tomoko, on Sep 08 2017 - 18:55, said:

Moral of this: don't mess with a clan who values loyalty and friendship.  we stick together.

 

Two words you clearly don't know the meaning to...

 

To quote someone who was smarter than I am:

 

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."

 

 

 

To those who left HARM Nation (whatever the reason), there isn't much left to say but good luck out there.



Strike_Witch_Tomoko #17 Posted Sep 10 2017 - 03:52

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View PostCAMN, on Sep 09 2017 - 19:42, said:

 

pming ya.

i want you to hear both sides.   not just smackers side.

 

and to anyone browsing the thread,  

keep in mind 2HARM went from 97 to 12. (even if 20 are kicked. thats 65)
and HARM....98 to...65 (so 33 loss)

hardly small,  and all of them active.



CAMN #18 Posted Sep 10 2017 - 04:13

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Oh, that's right, I forgot one "small" point I need to address.

 

The sheer hubris of thinking any of you had any saying on who gets to be the acting commander of HARM Nation is beyond anything I've ever seen. Next time, before you try and ask someone to step down as the commander of a clan, save everyone involved those 5 very uncomfortable minutes and drop your tags. The end result would be the same, and the drama would be much lower.

 

View PostStrike_Witch_Tomoko, on Sep 09 2017 - 22:22, said:

pming ya.

i want you to hear both sides.   not just smackers side.

 

The time to talk ended when you all lef the clan, there is nothing to talk about anymore.

Funny how "everyone" had issues with Smacker, but no one ever reported that to anyone in power to do something about it.



Strike_Witch_Tomoko #19 Posted Sep 10 2017 - 04:20

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View PostCAMN, on Sep 09 2017 - 20:13, said:

Oh, that's right, I forgot one "small" point I need to address.

 

The sheer hubris of thinking any of you had any saying on who gets to be the acting commander of HARM Nation is beyond anything I've ever seen. Next time, before you try and ask someone to step down as the commander of a clan, save everyone involved those 5 very uncomfortable minutes and drop your tags. The end result would be the same, and the drama would be much lower.

 

 

The time to talk ended when you all lef the clan, there is nothing to talk about anymore.

Funny how "everyone" had issues with Smacker, but no one ever reported that to anyone in power to do something about it.

 

did we say we wanted to choose who is acting commander?

 

no.

 

this is why i pm'd you to hear our side of the story. isntead of smacker's only.

 

we wanted him to step down due to how he was acting(HARM) and what he was doing(2HARM)

 

we never said anything about putting someone else in the position.

 



if you refuse to hear our side of it. then you have only yourself to blame for the number of people who left.

from both 2HARM and HARM. 

 

and i'd think its laughable to think 85 people from 2HARM, and 33 from HARM(in a time when HARM is inactive and struggling to get 1 team on a night)   is "small"

 

EDIT: to answer your question of why no one reported.

 

they did. Hawx took their complaints,  hence talking to smacker

Nochos and Airborne took them for 2HARM, and indeed didn't even need them to submit reports, considering everyhting was public in 2harm chat.

 

and if you must know, all of this i did inform Doc about, i thought he put that in his board of director's report



Kage4 #20 Posted Sep 11 2017 - 01:18

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View PostIronmike11B, on Sep 08 2017 - 23:20, said:

Holy Shnikes!! D-0-S still exists??

 

Ironmike (why not 'Bronzebruce'? ;) ),

All of this drama has me skeered. Hold me.

;)

-Kage4
PS Miss you in the RR, Brother-in-Arms from another Mother (branch)




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