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Dceriana98 #41 Posted Sep 17 2017 - 19:40

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View PostTheRadioManIsBleeding, on Sep 17 2017 - 17:44, said:

HARM did not want any 2harm clan members. 

Then why HARM recruiters tryed convince me to leave 2HARM and join them since the moment I enter 2HARM ?

Are u lying here or were u planing to disband 2HARM months ago but u didnt have an excuse?



Truemen #42 Posted Sep 18 2017 - 02:32

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View PostZemke, on Sep 16 2017 - 17:16, said:

Zemke's Open Letter,

I should just let this topic die a quiet death, but I feel that some statement from me is required as the founder of HARM and HARM Nation.  As stated previously I am no longer commander of HARM Nation.  That is due to both real-life work and my disappointment on the direction Wargaming has taken Clan Wars over the past 2 years, (although I was impressed with the current "model" of Clan Wars, it is not enough to make me trust again), and the continuing rollout of tier 8 super money tanks is....anyway, who cares why I am not playing.

 

I have thought about this latest event, defection or whatever you wish to call it for several days now, so while I drink a strong cup of coffee, I will give an insight into my thoughts and how HARM operates, and our values.

 

I will not use names, other than Smackers'.  I heard about this situation via text messages from a former longtime member, then received notice from a current in-active founding member.  My first and continuing feelings were extreme disappointment.  First disappointment primarily in people, second our own systems, or failure of those systems to work as planned.  HARM leadership placed great trust and responsibility in subordinate leaders with the expectation that they were loyal not to certain people or leaders, but loyal to HARM Nation and the systems that HARM Nation has had in place for years.

 

From my understanding, there was two issues that precipitated this, (1) enforcement of WN8 requirements within clans and realignment of personnel to the appropriate Clan within HARM Nation. This proved to be a problem for 2HARM leadership.  (2) The second issue was the desire by HARM main battle planners to attack a clan (Goons) we had a positive relationship with, which was overruled by the Commander of HARM, Smacker.  He overruled this decision because HARM Nation does not put short-term gain above relationships we have with outside clans, that is a value we have always held.  This "disagreement" then caused these subordinate leaders to ask for the resignation of the Commander of HARM Nation, Smacker, which is not how we change leadership.  We have a board of directors in place for this very reason.

 

What is so disappointing was these leaders were given great trust and authority within this organization.  These leaders grew up in HARM Nation, were trained in HARM Nation, over the course of years, not months, but years.  To leave the way they did was unexpected and very sad.  Frankly, that trust was greatly misplaced, in hindsight a huge mistake to have put such trust in them.  The level of disloyalty is incomprehensible to me.  I do not mean loyalty to Smacker or me, but disloyalty to HARM Nation and the systems we have in place, systems of training, rules for promotion, how we deal with outside clans, performance standards and so forth, many these very individuals help craft over time.

 

Based on the above, and the failure to try to resolve any of the above issues, by contacting me or asking the board to convene, it is my opinion that this was a planned event and the ringleaders were looking for a reason to leave.  

 

Based on this incident, I gave instructions that 2HARM would never again be an active Clan in HARM Nation because of this.  Like a unit in the old Roman legions, the 2HARM has been dishonored, it colors will be rolled up, and the unit decommissioned from service.

 

HARM Nation is not dead, this is not the first and won't be the last time people leave.  We have a certain system of leadership, training, and expectations.  We will rebuild, reform and move on.  We have a seat for all levels of players, but our failure to enforce those standards and expectations of training, leadership and standard operating procedures within HARM Nation, procedures in place for years, IMO lead to this.  Certain individuals were promoted too fast before they have put in the required time and demonstrated they could put HARM Nation above themselves and standard procedures of diplomacy, wn8 expectations were not enforced for too long by subordinate leaders who KNOW how HARM Nation does things.  In other words, they knew better.

 

The sharp little pointy object in the backs of HARM Nation members with just have to heal up.  The long hard job of recruiting back 130+ members and getting back to core values begins in HARM Nation.  Not for the first time, but hopefully the last, (but not likely), as there will always be people who join clans with an agenda or put their own ego before the organization.  Usually, we can spot that quickly, and have systems of promotion to safeguard against that.  Failure to follow those safeguards was not an indirect cause, but the direct cause IMO.

 

A great amount of time and investment (and in some cases real money) went into some of these former members, and to see how and why they so casually toss that aside, was extremely disappointing to me and remaining HARM members. They will be missed.  I hold no grudge against those that left to stay with friends, I understand that.

 

I take responsibility for this, as all of these former subordinate leaders were put in these positions with my approval.

 

 

Thanks,

Zemke

Founder of HARM Nation

 

See Zemke this is what you get for putting the Canadians in charge! Should have put a red blooded American patriot in charge!!! but for real this is all kinda a joke now and it's a freaking game... Just have fun.

Edit (Im from murica and can't spell Canadians)
Edit 2.0 (Again spelling is awful and again murica heck ya!)


Edited by Truemen, Sep 18 2017 - 02:37.


Warhawk402 #43 Posted Sep 18 2017 - 06:23

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RelaxingNova #44 Posted Sep 19 2017 - 01:23

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View PostIronmike11B, on Sep 08 2017 - 19:27, said:

 

Should have stayed in -TDU-!

 

S A V A G E

RelaxingNova #45 Posted Sep 19 2017 - 01:25

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Unban me fam i wasnt even involved with 2HARM lol i did nothing wrong

RECON_RANGER #46 Posted Sep 19 2017 - 17:11

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When I was in HARM for FOUR DAYS it was DEAD or better off DEAD.   I was in an intra-clan practice battle prior to CW's.  We lost, but they still used the same STRAT in the CW's battle.  Guess what, we lost.  I quit the clan 2 minutes after that battle as that was all I needed to know about this clan.  If you "practice" but then don't "learn", why waste players time practicing?     



Zemke #47 Posted Sep 19 2017 - 18:37

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View PostHawx_, on Sep 17 2017 - 11:42, said:

Zemke, I loved being in the old harm. I wouldn't have left harm as anything short of a last resort. I will give you one thing you were right on though. I wasn't loyal to the idea of harm nation. I am loyal to people in it that I've become friends with over the 3 years I was there. If I was solely blindly loyal to harm nation id still be there so I guess you already knew that. The fact you didn't care enough about the 130 some players that left to come and ask us for side on the ts I sent you multiple times astounds me. Over half of the leadeship of the other harm nation clans came and talked to us, but the creator of harm nation didnt think it was worth his time. Some of us that left were in harm nation for 3-5 years. Your addition to the harm forums comparing all the 2harm players that left to sewage really surprised me. I clearly respected you far more than i should have. 

 

Camn karlvonc tankschu and zemke werent there to see anything going on in harm nation for the past 6 or so months, yet the moment a group of 130 leaves they all feel the need to explain what happened to everyone on the forums without talking to the people that left.  As I was told everyone in Together we remain will be banned on harm ts on sight, anyone in harm nation that still values the friendship of anyone that left is welcome on our new ts to continue to be friends. Sanctuary.teamspeak.network  This will be my final post and possibly viewing of this thread as I really dont enjoy reading half my ex clanmates bash their friends that left because of major issues.

 

Organizations are people!  Do you really think you showed loyalty to the members of HARM Nation who left and stayed by splitting HARM Nation?  Do you honestly believe in your heart of hearts that you tried your best to fix whatever the problem was?  I mean do your really believe that or expect me to believe that?  

 

As far as not being there, as you said, I came on TS all the time, and every time I asked you or others how things were going.  NOT ONCE did you or anyone ever say there were problems, not once.  It was always the opposite, "things are great", "we are doing better than ever", "Smacker is doing a great job" and so on.  You had my phone number, and if you lost it, you could have gotten it from Schu or Trueman.  NO ONE contacted me, except Trueman, who is not even in HARM anymore, then Schu.  It took an ex-member who cared enough to let me know what had taken place.  If you did not want Smacker as the Commander, why not ask for a change to the board of directors, not declare an ultimatum to Smacker.  Smacker, the same guy I asked you more than once how he was doing, and you said, "Great!"  So yeah, I don't get it.  

 

Last, what would be the point of coming to your TS to hear your side of the story?  What would I hear? "Sorry for reducing HARM main to a shell of its former self, and destroying 2HARM in the process, but we had to because Smacker would not step down", or "sorry for not letting you know everything was not Ok anymore, and things went from Great to Bad in the space of two weeks, and we have no choice"  I am sure that is the short version of what I would hear, but with justifications thrown in there to support your actions. So to expect me to come to your TS and listen to your side AND be calm and understanding of your reasons is asking a little more than my temperament could withstand frankly.  But, if you REALLY want me to, I will.

 

I NEVER compared 2HARM members to sewage.  People posted on the website and could have used different words, but I was NOT pleased by what happened, not sure how anyone in my position would not be upset after the amount of time and energy spent getting HARM Nation to where it was, and then overnight have this happen.  And yes I said 2HARM would never exist again, in hindsight, it was a year of misplaced trust and wasted effort, and the second time this has happened in its history, so why go through that pain again.  Like Camn said to me last year, "you sure you really want to start up 2HARM again?"  I was like, "it will be great, we will have a really good clan to help HARM on the map, plus what is HARM Nation without a 2HARM, which we started with". Should have listened to Camn and saved everyone the trouble.

 

Honestly,  It took YEARS to get where we were, and I do not have the time or energy to direct that recovery effort.  I have offered suggestions on what I think needs to be done. I have offered my own money to help, but years of hard work, sweat and tears are gone in ONE day.  No ONE person built HARM Nation, not me, not you, not Radio, not DD, not Smacker, not Doc, not Loryn, not Schu, not Camn, not Tiger, not Flyen, not Tickle, not Rav, not York, not Marcphil, not Conrad, not Beast, not Bonny, not Wildblade, not Giggidy, not Zaahn, not Kill the Noob, not Sean911, not Degelt, not Grunt, not Fatz, not MarshalZhukov, not MavericGoth, not Kage, not OldCrankyman and on and on I can go who ALL put in hard work, countless hours into this.  I said once, I may have started this, but we all stand on the shoulders of those who came before us, who helped, and if you were not happy, you at least owned it to ALL members and all previous members who have put in time and energy here to at least try and work it out and give that process more than a cursory talk to Smacker, and then call it good.

 

 

 



Silversound #48 Posted Sep 19 2017 - 20:32

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Knowing nothing about the internals of HARM, this whole event really sucks.

 

Last thing I wanted to see happen to a successful multi clan.

 

Please try to work it out guys. We need this game to prosper.

 

Nelson



Strike_Witch_Tomoko #49 Posted Sep 19 2017 - 21:36

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View PostSilversound, on Sep 19 2017 - 12:32, said:

Knowing nothing about the internals of HARM, this whole event really sucks.

 

Last thing I wanted to see happen to a successful multi clan.

 

Please try to work it out guys. We need this game to prosper.

 

Nelson

 

unfortunately i doubt it will be worked out.  While i still have a few friends in HARM,  and more than a few in HARMZ.......in the end......

HARM has decided to ignore any reasons we give, and treat them all as excuses from a bunch of traitors.  And would rather stick to the narrative of one side rather than talk. (which might bite them in the rear considering this means they are choosing to ignore a problem that caused the exodus of over 130 players,   and not doing anything about it....so it could happen again)


and Ex-HARM/2HARM members are rather comfortable in TOGWR, We are all the actives from 2HARM and HARM,  and so have an easy time getting 2-3 CW teams at once.  plus 3-4 strongholds.(aka more active than even 2HARM was during its successful time. which was already successful.........its a bit like WoT's Golden Days of activity 3-4 years ago.)

And all of this while under the command structure we trust of 2HARM's ex leadership(who we can credit for 2HARM's great activity rate prior to all this) and part of HARM's ex leadership (who now have an active clan of eager players, and bring alot of experience to benefit the clan)


so right now, its easy to think we've taken all we liked from HARM, and dropped the flawed chains that let 1 person create so many issues for both clans.

 

plus, we've got a 2ndary clan startign up (which is also credit to the insane activity of our members).

 

 

None of us wanted to leave originally,  we were having a great time in HARM nations and were all proud of what we were accomplishing(at least for 2HARM.   not sure what the mood was in HARM).

 

Us leaving was out of necessity to avoid the mistakes of the past (February and March's  time of low activity, and constant infighting), and stick with the people who we enjoy playing with(and make us want to log on each day.    game is supposed to be for fun. not a job. Something often forgotten in HARM's structured set up.).

 


and we were all nervous when we left, afraid we had lost that(early estimates when this started was maybe 20-30 people at best would come with to form a new clan).  but thankfully enough of us were of similar mind that our fears have been for naught(current count is 130.  hence our 2nd clan being set up),  and the command staff were prepared enough to quickly set up and organize the new clan before people started dropping off the game.

 

 

 

So we've benefited from leaving, and have little to gain, but much to lose,   were we to return.

 

so our efforts to explain our side of the story and trying to end on good terms is for morale and friendship purposes at best.    not for any real hope of returning.

 

and with HARM's refusal to hear us out, even ending on good terms is looking grim.



Vortex747 #50 Posted Sep 19 2017 - 21:41

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View PostZemke, on Sep 19 2017 - 18:37, said:

 

Organizations are people!  Do you really think you showed loyalty to the members of HARM Nation who left and stayed by splitting HARM Nation?  Do you honestly believe in your heart of hearts that you tried your best to fix whatever the problem was?  I mean do your really believe that or expect me to believe that?

 

As far as not being there, as you said, I came on TS all the time, and every time I asked you or others how things were going.  NOT ONCE did you or anyone ever say there were problems, not once.  It was always the opposite, "things are great", "we are doing better than ever", "Smacker is doing a great job" and so on.  You had my phone number, and if you lost it, you could have gotten it from Schu or Trueman.  NO ONE contacted me, except Trueman, who is not even in HARM anymore, then Schu.  It took an ex-member who cared enough to let me know what had taken place.  If you did not want Smacker as the Commander, why not ask for a change to the board of directors, not declare an ultimatum to Smacker.  Smacker, the same guy I asked you more than once how he was doing, and you said, "Great!"  So yeah, I don't get it.

 

Last, what would be the point of coming to your TS to hear your side of the story?  What would I hear? "Sorry for reducing HARM main to a shell of its former self, and destroying 2HARM in the process, but we had to because Smacker would not step down", or "sorry for not letting you know everything was not Ok anymore, and things went from Great to Bad in the space of two weeks, and we have no choice"  I am sure that is the short version of what I would hear, but with justifications thrown in there to support your actions. So to expect me to come to your TS and listen to your side AND be calm and understanding of your reasons is asking a little more than my temperament could withstand frankly.  But, if you REALLY want me to, I will.

 

I NEVER compared 2HARM members to sewage.  People posted on the website and could have used different words, but I was NOT pleased by what happened, not sure how anyone in my position would not be upset after the amount of time and energy spent getting HARM Nation to where it was, and then overnight have this happen.  And yes I said 2HARM would never exist again, in hindsight, it was a year of misplaced trust and wasted effort, and the second time this has happened in its history, so why go through that pain again.  Like Camn said to me last year, "you sure you really want to start up 2HARM again?"  I was like, "it will be great, we will have a really good clan to help HARM on the map, plus what is HARM Nation without a 2HARM, which we started with". Should have listened to Camn and saved everyone the trouble.

 

Honestly,  It took YEARS to get where we were, and I do not have the time or energy to direct that recovery effort.  I have offered suggestions on what I think needs to be done. I have offered my own money to help, but years of hard work, sweat and tears are gone in ONE day.  No ONE person built HARM Nation, not me, not you, not Radio, not DD, not Smacker, not Doc, not Loryn, not Schu, not Camn, not Tiger, not Flyen, not Tickle, not Rav, not York, not Marcphil, not Conrad, not Beast, not Bonny, not Wildblade, not Giggidy, not Zaahn, not Kill the Noob, not Sean911, not Degelt, not Grunt, not Fatz, not MarshalZhukov, not MavericGoth, not Kage, not OldCrankyman and on and on I can go who ALL put in hard work, countless hours into this.  I said once, I may have started this, but we all stand on the shoulders of those who came before us, who helped, and if you were not happy, you at least owned it to ALL members and all previous members who have put in time and energy here to at least try and work it out and give that process more than a cursory talk to Smacker, and then call it good.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, nice skidmark of a post Zemke but you get to own this one, all of it starts with you and your decision to name Smacker commander of Harm main. Let me remind you that about a year ago, Smacker was in fact commander of the very same 2Harm and 2 days before the start of the campaign, he left all 100 of us with our d***s in our hands and jumped up to Harm leaving us with unexpected and inexperienced leadership, once again 2 freaking days before the campaign started. Why?.... Because he wanted a free fu**ing tank and you let him do it! Now, you want to talk of loyalty? Where was his loyalty to the 100 guys who helped him stand up a new arm of Harm Nation? Where was yours?

 

So yeah, you did place your trust in the wrong person, now you get to live with the results of that decision.



Kage4 #51 Posted Sep 20 2017 - 03:14

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View PostHawx_, on Sep 17 2017 - 17:42, said:

Hawx

XO of TOGWR

 

 

Just noticed the twin TOGs in your clan emblem. Epic.

I hope ownership of a TOG is required for membership @ TOGWR.

And I want to see some all TOG SH and CW fights. Just sayin'... ;)

Kage4 #52 Posted Sep 20 2017 - 03:32

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and with HARM's refusal to hear us out, even ending on good terms is looking grim.

 

Somehow, I pray to the Virtual Gods of Armored Warfare that somehow the poor scrubs remaining at HARM Nation will maintain 'good terms' with strikewhateverwhatever.

However, this is most likely an impossibility due to the rank inferiority of everyone at HARM Nation when compared to the awesomeness of strikewitchwhateverwhatever.

So the poor dregs left at HARM nation will just cry silently into their Canadian beers (thanks, Smacker) while they mope in the CW RR, pining for the evenings of amazing insight and wisdom previously bestowed upon them by strikewitchwhateverwhatever.

I think we actually lucked out. When I found out it was leaving HARM nation I was expected a wave of deleted WoT accounts tearing through our clueless, pitiful ranks.

But as the saying goes, a HARM ranker in the end is 'Strong Like Bull, Smart Like Tractor' so I guess we'll just plod on, somehow, until HARM nation dies off.

Hold your breath, in anticipation, please. ;)

All apologies to all reading this thread for the 26th wall of text from strikewitchwhatwasitagain (?) in yet another 'LOOOOK AT MEEEEE!' reply.

V/R
-Kage4
HARM Nation Mediocrity Compliance Commisar
Arrested 145 times, never convicted

PS Are you a mediocre scrub? Does grinding for insane WN8 while screwing over your team in pubs all night leave you feeling empty and alone? Join HARM Nation and hide your mediocre scrubiness within our ranks. Details;
* Free Dental Insurance if injuries are CW-related
*Free Entry into Monthly 'Win a Tiger Beat Dream Date with Zemke' sweepstakes
*Up to 4 prior violent felonies waved, up to 6 waived for E-100 and Tiger I drivers
*Free All-You-Can-Eat Bothan & Ewok sausage combo pizza on Friday nights
*Free Morale and Happiness boosting discussion sessions with HARM Nations own Tankschu

A deal so good, it's too good to be true, but it is!

Hawx_ #53 Posted Sep 20 2017 - 06:44

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View PostKage4, on Sep 20 2017 - 02:14, said:

 

Just noticed the twin TOGs in your clan emblem. Epic.

I hope ownership of a TOG is required for membership @ TOGWR.

And I want to see some all TOG SH and CW fights. Just sayin'... ;)

 

There are no current requirements of owning a tog, but that may be something we add in the future. I Personally am looking forward to the 15v15 tog naval battles we have planned. ;)

Truemen #54 Posted Yesterday, 12:33 AM

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View PostZemke, on Sep 19 2017 - 11:37, said:

 

Organizations are people!  Do you really think you showed loyalty to the members of HARM Nation who left and stayed by splitting HARM Nation?  Do you honestly believe in your heart of hearts that you tried your best to fix whatever the problem was?  I mean do your really believe that or expect me to believe that?  

 

As far as not being there, as you said, I came on TS all the time, and every time I asked you or others how things were going.  NOT ONCE did you or anyone ever say there were problems, not once.  It was always the opposite, "things are great", "we are doing better than ever", "Smacker is doing a great job" and so on.  You had my phone number, and if you lost it, you could have gotten it from Schu or Trueman.  NO ONE contacted me, except Trueman, who is not even in HARM anymore, then Schu.  It took an ex-member who cared enough to let me know what had taken place.  If you did not want Smacker as the Commander, why not ask for a change to the board of directors, not declare an ultimatum to Smacker.  Smacker, the same guy I asked you more than once how he was doing, and you said, "Great!"  So yeah, I don't get it.  

 

Last, what would be the point of coming to your TS to hear your side of the story?  What would I hear? "Sorry for reducing HARM main to a shell of its former self, and destroying 2HARM in the process, but we had to because Smacker would not step down", or "sorry for not letting you know everything was not Ok anymore, and things went from Great to Bad in the space of two weeks, and we have no choice"  I am sure that is the short version of what I would hear, but with justifications thrown in there to support your actions. So to expect me to come to your TS and listen to your side AND be calm and understanding of your reasons is asking a little more than my temperament could withstand frankly.  But, if you REALLY want me to, I will.

 

I NEVER compared 2HARM members to sewage.  People posted on the website and could have used different words, but I was NOT pleased by what happened, not sure how anyone in my position would not be upset after the amount of time and energy spent getting HARM Nation to where it was, and then overnight have this happen.  And yes I said 2HARM would never exist again, in hindsight, it was a year of misplaced trust and wasted effort, and the second time this has happened in its history, so why go through that pain again.  Like Camn said to me last year, "you sure you really want to start up 2HARM again?"  I was like, "it will be great, we will have a really good clan to help HARM on the map, plus what is HARM Nation without a 2HARM, which we started with". Should have listened to Camn and saved everyone the trouble.

 

Honestly,  It took YEARS to get where we were, and I do not have the time or energy to direct that recovery effort.  I have offered suggestions on what I think needs to be done. I have offered my own money to help, but years of hard work, sweat and tears are gone in ONE day.  No ONE person built HARM Nation, not me, not you, not Radio, not DD, not Smacker, not Doc, not Loryn, not Schu, not Camn, not Tiger, not Flyen, not Tickle, not Rav, not York, not Marcphil, not Conrad, not Beast, not Bonny, not Wildblade, not Giggidy, not Zaahn, not Kill the Noob, not Sean911, not Degelt, not Grunt, not Fatz, not MarshalZhukov, not MavericGoth, not Kage, not OldCrankyman and on and on I can go who ALL put in hard work, countless hours into this.  I said once, I may have started this, but we all stand on the shoulders of those who came before us, who helped, and if you were not happy, you at least owned it to ALL members and all previous members who have put in time and energy here to at least try and work it out and give that process more than a cursory talk to Smacker, and then call it good.

 

 

 

Sorry I left for real life reasons (Work and School) But I am still sad it had to happen! Let me know when your back home Zemke gonna try and make a trip out to around where you are soon!



LordEdwardthefith #55 Posted Yesterday, 05:14 AM

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