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Remove Arty from the Game


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nubbc #81 Posted Sep 11 2017 - 02:21

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remove arti. yes.

ianizor1000 #82 Posted Sep 11 2017 - 06:09

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View PostThornir, on Sep 10 2017 - 16:20, said:

 

what is your counter to TDs? Move when spotted. How is arty different? 

 

Good players move. They don't try to hide behind a rock. They move backwards four seconds, pause and move forward. They move in arcs, not straight lines or predictable zig zags. They don't do that stupid serpentine reverse thing most of you do. They make fluid motion a part of their game. And rarely get hit. 

 

But that is too hard. So, work to get an entire class removed because you can't be bothered to learn how to cope with a mechanic that's been in the game longer than you have. Brilliant. 

 

​TD's is a much broader term than arty. The T30 plays a lot like a heavy. The T110E3 is a heavy casemate TD. The Rhm is reliant on camo. I approach these in different ways. A T30 I would generally wait until it fires than put a shot through it's weak hull. The T110E3 pretty much obligates you to flank it. The Rhm you are unlikely to outspot unless you're in a vehicle dedicated to spotting. The key to countering a TD like this is to simply not drive down long firing lanes where it can hit you without subjecting itself to return fire. Oddly enough, none of these strategies work for arty. Because as much as arty supporters try to say it's no different than TD's, it is. Arty does not require line of sight to hit a target. That is the crux of the matter. 

 

You talk a lot about how "good players do this, good players do that, you don't do it etc" without ever having watched me play. If an artillery piece wants to hit you, it will unless you are never spotted or you never venture out from behind a large building or rock. It might miss one shot, but with how big the splash is it will hit you next time and stuns are incapacitating in a fight.



Jungol #83 Posted Sep 11 2017 - 08:48

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View Postianizor1000, on Sep 11 2017 - 06:09, said:

 

​TD's is a much broader term than arty. The T30 plays a lot like a heavy. The T110E3 is a heavy casemate TD. The Rhm is reliant on camo. I approach these in different ways. A T30 I would generally wait until it fires than put a shot through it's weak hull. The T110E3 pretty much obligates you to flank it. The Rhm you are unlikely to outspot unless you're in a vehicle dedicated to spotting. The key to countering a TD like this is to simply not drive down long firing lanes where it can hit you without subjecting itself to return fire. Oddly enough, none of these strategies work for arty. Because as much as arty supporters try to say it's no different than TD's, it is. Arty does not require line of sight to hit a target. That is the crux of the matter. 

 

You talk a lot about how "good players do this, good players do that, you don't do it etc" without ever having watched me play. If an artillery piece wants to hit you, it will unless you are never spotted or you never venture out from behind a large building or rock. It might miss one shot, but with how big the splash is it will hit you next time and stuns are incapacitating in a fight.

 

Very well stated ..good to see that

 

But I think the majority of TD's are huge gun camping traps that slow the dynamic of the game more when they dominate the rosters; Arty is limited to 3 per side (should be 2 honestly) but I see a whole lot more 8 per side TD games...and I know from the start that they are going to end up being crappy stagnant games. Artillery can hit you most anywhere but not if your moving defensively...shoot man it takes more than 1 and a half seconds at least for the shells to hit u.

 

I do like the stun mechanic because it hinders effectiveness like actual high explosives rocking a tank and crew would and allows arty to actually affect the battle more by aiming at tanks in combat with your own front line. Also good for REDUCING camping; on Malinovka I'm more concerned about giant TD guns instantly seeking me out than arty. But I think 3 arties is too much per team; typically it's like they are competing for kills and end up negatively dominating the game

 

So I propose that WG limit games to 2 artillery pieces per side and 5 TD's (6 maybe. but still pushing it)



ianizor1000 #84 Posted Sep 11 2017 - 08:55

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View PostJungol, on Sep 11 2017 - 01:48, said:

 

Very well stated ..good to see that

 

But I think the majority of TD's are huge gun camping traps that slow the dynamic of the game more when they dominate the rosters; Arty is limited to 3 per side (should be 2 honestly) but I see a whole lot more 8 per side TD games...and I know from the start that they are going to end up being crappy stagnant games. Artillery can hit you most anywhere but not if your moving defensively...shoot man it takes more than 1 and a half seconds at least for the shells to hit u.

 

I do like the stun mechanic because it hinders effectiveness like actual high explosives rocking a tank and crew would and allows arty to actually affect the battle more by aiming at tanks in combat with your own front line. Also good for REDUCING camping; on Malinovka I'm more concerned about giant TD guns instantly seeking me out than arty. But I think 3 arties is too much per team; typically it's like they are competing for kills and end up negatively dominating the game

 

So I propose that WG limit games to 2 artillery pieces per side and 5 TD's (6 maybe. but still pushing it)

 

​I don't disagree that too many TD's can make a game stagnant, but it really depends on which TD's they are. 3 skorpions on each side is going to suck. 3 T95's isn't quite the same. Actual high explosives wouldn't actually rock a tank like that because artillery was never designed to shoot at tanks. They're an anti-infantry tool and their use against tanks is a last resort. If you're moving defensively you can still be hit it's just less likely. You'll still probably be stunned and if you're moving defensively you can't fight like you normally would. 

Genada #85 Posted Sep 11 2017 - 12:18

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They should remove arty. The main thing arty does is prevent full play of maps. It leads to the matches often playing out the same way due to many spots being off limits due to the ability of arty to hit those spots. So people play arty safe and camp.

 

The only and best way to not get hit by arty is to not get spotted. That is one of the reasons there tends to be so much camping. Arty does not prevent camping, it encourages it.



Thornir #86 Posted Sep 11 2017 - 12:20

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View Postianizor1000, on Sep 11 2017 - 06:09, said:

 

​TD's is a much broader term than arty. The T30 plays a lot like a heavy. The T110E3 is a heavy casemate TD. The Rhm is reliant on camo. I approach these in different ways. A T30 I would generally wait until it fires than put a shot through it's weak hull. The T110E3 pretty much obligates you to flank it. The Rhm you are unlikely to outspot unless you're in a vehicle dedicated to spotting. The key to countering a TD like this is to simply not drive down long firing lanes where it can hit you without subjecting itself to return fire. Oddly enough, none of these strategies work for arty. Because as much as arty supporters try to say it's no different than TD's, it is. Arty does not require line of sight to hit a target. That is the crux of the matter. 

 

You talk a lot about how "good players do this, good players do that, you don't do it etc" without ever having watched me play. If an artillery piece wants to hit you, it will unless you are never spotted or you never venture out from behind a large building or rock. It might miss one shot, but with how big the splash is it will hit you next time and stuns are incapacitating in a fight.

 

what difference does it make if the shell that hits you was fired from across the map or the nearest bush? And why is it that TDs can restrict your play by removing large areas of the map you can't drive down,  but not arty? 

 

I have no idea how you play. I just know how players that can play their game without worrying so much about arty play. 



Old_Noobette #87 Posted Sep 11 2017 - 12:24

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View PosttheSparatan117, on Sep 08 2017 - 20:48, said:

Every time I see a scout fly by me and head towards arty...

 

 

stop...don't....come back      :hiding:     LOL

Smooky_Le_chien_husky #88 Posted Sep 11 2017 - 14:08

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View PostSteelRonin, on Sep 09 2017 - 00:37, said:

yeah, yeah, beating the dead horse or whatever those stupid jokes that you use.....actually, is not even close to be a "beating the dead horse" because we still have a chance to success and WG remove the entire class.

 

Yes, you don't get one-shot, but you are perma bombarded with 14 secs stun even in a miss shot...if you have 500 hp, you are going to die by arty hands. They aim much faster, the accuracy is even better, in 2 secs after being spotted you will die, they moved the entire hull, aimed at you in 2 secs.......

 

I remember the old days in wot where Bison tier 2 dominated low tiers and all the matches were arty versus arty..

 

Personally, I won't stop to support the idea of removing arty.

 

 

;) Deal with it . He made in this way for who no love Arty lol . Is part of game for support the team deal with it . I did talk with wg . He will never touch Arty for take off he stay on the game forever . He says he only editing buff or need but never to take off the game . That make me yes yaaay ;) hafun and rage more



Komitadjie #89 Posted Sep 11 2017 - 14:13

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Heeeehehehe, so much salt. Just got my GW Panther, should have the XP for the top gun tonight! :-D

_Hatsune__Miku_ #90 Posted Sep 11 2017 - 14:15

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Time to take the dust of my T92!!

Kenshin2kx #91 Posted Sep 11 2017 - 19:33

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... it should be interesting year ... with the consolidation of the NA servers, the stats regarding player base and vehicle demographics should become clear to all, not the least being WG of course.  Why is this of significance?  Well, the first step in effective change is to gather accurate data and intel ... then parse the numbers.  The basic goal is fairly simple, find out the breakdown of the player base by numbers and by finance contribution ... use these two factors as the basis for game evolution and game play reinforcement for the win/win of majority player satisfaction + ongoing company profit.

 

At a guess, based on what has been done recently (to the game and to the server infrastructure) I conclude that WG is more than ever focused on making the sustaining profit ... a second guess, that WG has begun come to some conclusions already ... which seem to point to a larger conventional tank playerbase* ( i.e. the primary base to optimize for )  

 

As for the future of arty in the game?  I leave these observations to make of what you the reader will ...

 

* based on the 2 factors of server conolidation and the cumulative patch implications to arty from 9.17 to present.


Edited by Kenshin2kx, Sep 11 2017 - 19:35.


ianizor1000 #92 Posted Sep 11 2017 - 20:17

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View PostThornir, on Sep 11 2017 - 05:20, said:

 

what difference does it make if the shell that hits you was fired from across the map or the nearest bush? And why is it that TDs can restrict your play by removing large areas of the map you can't drive down,  but not arty? 

 

I have no idea how you play. I just know how players that can play their game without worrying so much about arty play. 

 

​Because I can avoid the TD shell by hiding behind a dead tank, or angling my armor, or going hulldown, or moving behind a rock, or spotting it when it fires. I can do absolutely 0 of these things, these core skills people learn to avoid taking damage from every other class against arty and I think that is bad for gameplay. You're either being intentionally or unintentionally, incredibly dense about how arty differs from other classes. Line of sight and render range affect every class except arty and that makes a huge difference.

SideSkirtPenetration #93 Posted Sep 11 2017 - 20:47

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Hmm, just makes me wanna rinse off my T10 arty everytime I read these godforsaken posts.  Takes dead horse beating to a whole new level.

 

T92, Conq, 261, all rolling out of the geeeeerage tonight!!!!!



Komitadjie #94 Posted Sep 11 2017 - 21:16

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I'll follow your shot, man! Steel rain! :D

muddypuddle #95 Posted Sep 11 2017 - 23:07

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View PostThornir, on Sep 11 2017 - 11:20, said:

 

what difference does it make if the shell that hits you was fired from across the map or the nearest bush? And why is it that TDs can restrict your play by removing large areas of the map you can't drive down,  but not arty?

 

I have no idea how you play. I just know how players that can play their game without worrying so much about arty play.

 

 

 

the difference from across the map compared to the nearest bush is obvious


 

the TD has to get to the nearest bush without getting seen and shot at


 

Try thinking,  Thinking is so important



Cheese_Wagon_3 #96 Posted Sep 11 2017 - 23:23

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LONG LIVE ARTY!!!

Omega_Weapon #97 Posted Sep 12 2017 - 02:33

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View PostGenada, on Sep 11 2017 - 06:18, said:

The main thing arty does is prevent full play of maps. It leads to the matches often playing out the same way due to many spots being off limits

 

​Corridor maps do that, with or without arty. Maps used to be more open, and arty was less of a problem because it didn't have places to pre-aim knowing that enemies had to use that specific corridor. On open maps they really did promote dynamic gameplay because they primarily hit the people who stayed still in the open. But the player based cried about hidden tank destroyers getting too many kills which led to the corridors being introduced. TDs are less effective now with corridors (and less cover), but arty in a sense became more effective.




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