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How to remove arty from the game without refunding arty players


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JRingo20 #61 Posted Sep 12 2017 - 23:39

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View PostEisenriese, on Sep 11 2017 - 08:43, said:

 

​Actually I spend most of my time playing medium tanks. Medium play is much more "dynamic" than the other classes. Sadly some chimp flinging poo normally ruins any chance to engage the enemy using cover/rig lines. Even flanking is not viable since most times when flanking you will be exposing yourself to chimp poo. Hell, it seems arty doesn't care if they hit team mates when firing into close quarters combat. Nothing like eating a 20+sec stun from a "friendly" arty "just trying to help". Guess what arty? You can help by playing a real tank!

 

Again, THERE ARE NO REAL TANKS. Just pixels.

Sum_won_nu #62 Posted Sep 12 2017 - 23:46

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Or HTFU and get over it.

Beornotns #63 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 00:34

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View PostEisenriese, on Sep 10 2017 - 10:18, said:

 

​OK you sir about made me spit out my ice tea. You cant be serious!? Thinking that red line chimp arty players even TRY to CB. LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!! Holy crap man this is the funniest thing I have read on the forums all day!! I ask arty every battle to try at least one CB to support slower tanks. I even point out what grid to look at so they can find their counterpart chimps gun tracers. I even let my chimps know when the enemy chimp fires. Guess what?! the chimp on my team still shoot at the enemy lowest tier mediums or tanks that are nearly dead. 

 

Arty is a joke. A very bad joke. 

You've never asked me to Counter Battery.  And I prefer it.  Once their artillery is out of play (mind you, I rarely play SPGs except for the Personal Missions), then I can stun other tanks and rack up the assist damage...  Using a long reload and high damage HE shell for a dead/crippled tank is bad form.  And I learned this from playing what you would consider a "real" tank (and, in my opinion, the finest tank of all time...  So ugly she's beautiful... The sexy sweet, One-Fifty-Two Treat, the KV-2!!!).  When you are tethered to a long reload, you MUST use it as effectively as possible.  Killing a bottom tier light tank with 37 hit points or bashing a fresh top tier heavy tank for 300+?  It shouldn't even be a choice, but sadly, not everyone thinks it through.

View Posttanopasman62, on Sep 10 2017 - 10:19, said:

They already did that: It's called wot blitz.

^^^  This right here.  They already have the game.  AND, you can play it on your home computer (Thanks Steam!)

View PostEisenriese, on Sep 10 2017 - 15:30, said:

 

​Just another chimp arty player that needs to be safe for an entire game and fling your poo at real tanks trying to play a tank game. Ever wonder why 2 seconds after spawn with no arty everyone rejoices? That's because no one wants to get hit by something they have no chance to fight back against. Don't even say anything about a hidden td you chimpete. That TD still needs line of sight to hit. 

 

Edit - If you xvm snipe in an arty you are the lowest form of dbag arty and one of the biggest reasons xvm needs to be banned. Proves beyond a shadow a doubt what type of player enjoy arty. I bet 500g that you don't xvm hunt those same blue/purple players when you play a real tank. They would open your tank up and send you back to the garage in under 2 minutes. Also just took a look at you on wotlabs, Yeah 300+ games in the SU-26. 

"everyone rejoices"? I don't know about you, but usually I am using my keyboard and mouse to get to my next objective and looking around for speedy bastards that may have set an ambush, not typing furiously in game:
"REJOICE MY BRETHREN!  FOR YE VERILY DOTH THE LORD SMILE UPON US THIS DAY!  HOORAY AND HUZZAH, GIVE THANKS UNTO OUR CREATOR FOR THERE ARE NO SELF-PROPELLED GUNS CONTAINED HEREIN WITH WHICH TO SHOO...<KA-BOOM!!!> Aw [censored] I'm dead!  ::sighs heavily and looks at twin bed with Star Wars sheets on them, wistfully thinking of nap-time and cookies from Mee-Maw::

View PostEisenriese, on Sep 11 2017 - 06:43, said:

 

​Actually I spend most of my time playing medium tanks. Medium play is much more "dynamic" than the other classes. Sadly some chimp flinging poo normally ruins any chance to engage the enemy using cover/rig lines. Even flanking is not viable since most times when flanking you will be exposing yourself to chimp poo. Hell, it seems arty doesn't care if they hit team mates when firing into close quarters combat. Nothing like eating a 20+sec stun from a "friendly" arty "just trying to help". Guess what arty? You can help by playing a real tank!

Listen Iron Giant, you and your simian fecal fixation need some therapy.  I do NOT recommend the Zoo, for, um, obvious reasons.  And I would submit to you that teammates also swerve into the path, even after marked by arty, just to grief the SPG player.    Guess what "dynamic" player?  You can help by not being a foot-long knob on a dirty stick!

View PostEisenriese, on Sep 11 2017 - 06:45, said:

 

​At least IF infantry was in the game they would have to risk being killed to do damage. Not just sit on the red line, using god mode, to fling poo. 

So which is it?  Is it the Cretinous Cascades of Crap?  Or is it Deific Distance Doom?

 

Look, you're a better player than I am, no doubt about it, but you've logged over 100 battles in American SPGs, so...  You aren't exactly as clean as a preacher's sheets now, are you?  The thing about Chimpanzees is, according to the most recent mapping of the human genome, they share 96% of our DNA.  Oh, and also, if you get one mad, it can rip your arms off, beat you to death with them, and then use your oozing, still warm stump holes to pleasure themselves with.

 

So, what you need to ask yourself is, do you want to be a partner on the field of tanking endeavor with these denizens of the self-propelled gun to the greater glory of all involved?  Or do you want your arm sockets romantically abused by a boning Bonobo?

 

Just, ya know... curious?

 

~B



Beornotns #64 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 00:35

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View PostJRingo20, on Sep 12 2017 - 14:39, said:

 

Again, THERE ARE NO REAL TANKS. Just pixels.

 

True enough...  Although I have spent a decent amount on pixels...

 

~B



BillT #65 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 01:21

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View Postv_i_c_e, on Sep 10 2017 - 10:37, said:

To remove arty, simply allow a check box for matchmaking that says "play with arty" --- this way arty players can play with whomever wants to play with them, and war gaming doesn't need to refund anything to people who invested in these arty tanks.

 

obviously a refund scenario is the major holdback from ever changing arty, so this is why i made a realistic proposition. 

 

You're not thinking.   (Arty haters usually don't, so it's not your fault.)

 

It doesn't matter whether WG simply removes SPGs from the game, or adds a mechanism that makes it impossible for an SPG to get a match. Either way they create a bunch of SPG players who are angry that the tanks they spent time and money developing are now useless.  They feel exactly like you would feel if WG took some of your tanks out of the game.

 

Players who've just had their virtual property destroyed are not likely to spend any more money on the game. So WG never does that.  When they need to remove a tank (like the WT E 100), they always compensate the owner (by giving them another tank of equal value, the Grille 15).  They won't even nerf premium tanks for fear that customers might get angry, so they sure as heck aren't going to remove entire lines of vehicles without compensation.

 

Besides, what's it to you if WG gives me a million-odd free XP and 12 million credits to buy back my SPGs? I t's not coming out of your pocket.  It's not coming out of WG's, either... it's just more virtual goods.



BillT #66 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 01:49

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View PostShortcult, on Sep 10 2017 - 15:04, said:

  I can only conclude, and maybe I am not being open minded enough, that apologists absolutely dread the idea of having players that do not want to play with arty removed from their target list.

 

My recommendation still stands, one game mode for 90% of the players with arty in it and one competitive game mode with no arty and reduced RNG on 'to hit' rolls.  Got arty in the garage?  Can't select competitive mode.  Cool down period after the selection to keep people from jumping back and forth.  I can not come up with and I have not seen a better idea to make the most players happy.

 

Absolutely correct.  You are not being open minded enough.

 

The "opt out" idea, whether via a check-box or by the mechanism you suggest, reminds me of the economic discrimination before the 1960s.  Back then, business owners had the right to "opt out" of hiring or serving black people. And it turned out that 90% of businesses didn't decline to do that, because a lot of white customers wouldn't do business with companies that didn't uphold segregation.  It didn't require a majority of whites to be bigoted; even if only 10 or 20% of whites were bigots, that was too many customers for a business to chase away.   Today we see bigots defending their right to refuse to hire or server GLBT people.  I know, I know... choosing to play an SPG is nothing like being born black or gay, I'm not trying to push the analogy that far.  I'm just using it to illustrate how market forces tend to snowball to extreme results.

 

I think the same mechanisms will happen in WOT.   One group or the other -- arty players, or those who opt out of arty -- is going to wind up in the minority, and peer pressure will force people who are neutral into one camp or the other.  "I play arty-free, and I don't want to platoon with you unless you opt out, too."   Or "this is an arty-free clan".  Even if the split is 50/50, I don't think the NA server is populous enough to support "separate but equal" MM queues for both groups.  And as someone who plays SPGs, any of these outcomes is a loss for me.   If SPGs are in the minority, I won't be able to find a match and the valuable SPGs I own become worthless.  If SPGs are in the majority, you won't be able to find a match, so you'll have to opt back in.  Then you'll come back to the forums saying, "That didn't work, so let's try something else to handicap artillery."  And if the server splits 50/50, we'll all have long queue times and it will cause players to quit in droves until the entire server dies.
 

And I laugh at your definition of "Competitive mode".  Generally that term applies to modes that are harder and more complex, not ones that are simpler because a major element of the game has been disabled.  You should call it "Blitz mode" instead, because Competitions -- tournaments and CW -- will still use arty.

 



Boomer_Thorsen #67 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 01:56

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I am all for totally losing arty but if that happened the arty owners should be compensated as is usually done when WG removes a tank. 

 

If WG just limited arty to ONE per team most of the problem would be eliminated, tankers could have tank battles and nothing complicated or expensive would be required.

 

On the other hand if they just dumped arty and flipped the x-arty players the bird, those who left the game would be a good riddance.

 

The abject stupidity of the recent arty implementations is undoubtedly the biggest cause of the declining player population because otherwise WoT is an excellent game.  I mean in what universe did WW2ish arty have first shot accuracy against targets they could not see via direct line of sight?  Here's a hint....it never happened.  Indirect fire was directed at an AREA, hoping for a useful hit on something.



BillT #68 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 02:00

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View Postspud_tuber, on Sep 11 2017 - 09:10, said:

FYI, look for tracers during your reload, not while you're loaded with important targets lit.

 

The problem there is that I spend my reload time moving, so I can't be CB'd.  I can't manage to do that while using to-down mode to scan the other side of the map.

 

I think CB should be more effective, though.  I like the solution others have suggested, where once an SPG fires, after a delay (maybe 15 seconds) the enemy team gets a ping on their minimap showing his rough position.  Each additional shot he fires from the same spot makes that ping more accurate; really, two pings in a row would be enough for the enemy to know where to look for your next tracer and instantly drop CB on you.  Moving right after you shoot would keep you safe, but if you keep hanging around the same area the enemy SPG will still narrow down your location and catch you.

 

Of course, for that to be fair WG would also have to improve a few of the maps which offer very few spots for arty to set up.  They would include Mines, Ensk, Himmelsdorf, Paris,.... basically all the small maps and all the city maps.  And while we're at it, if we're going to make arty still weaker, then give SPGs more maps like Prokhorovka and Murovanka, where they can be effective.






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