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The longest PVE Battles argument you'll probably read this year ... oh and poll also

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Poll: Proving Grounds for All Tiers (112 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 100 battles in order to participate this poll.

Would you play PVE Battles?

  1. Yes (57 votes [50.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.89%

  2. No (55 votes [49.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 49.11%

Should other people be allowed to play PVE?

  1. Yes (65 votes [58.04%])

    Percentage of vote: 58.04%

  2. No (47 votes [41.96%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.96%

Do you believe it would increase queue times?

  1. Yes (63 votes [56.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 56.25%

  2. No (49 votes [43.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 43.75%

Do you believe it might bring more players?

  1. Yes (52 votes [46.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 46.43%

  2. No (60 votes [53.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 53.57%

(For fun) Remove Artillery from the game?

  1. Yes (31 votes [19.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.38%

  2. HELL YES (39 votes [24.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 24.38%

  3. No (37 votes [23.12%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.12%

  4. It belongs there (23 votes [14.37%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.37%

  5. I like Bacon (30 votes [18.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.75%

Vote Hide poll

theSparatan117 #1 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 11:19

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Let's bring this up again... chit chat about some thoughts I've been compiling for the past year or so. 

 

Thought 1 - Proving Grounds


Proving Grounds is already in the game. Yep... PVE is already in the game, and the AI aren't ... smart... but they're not dumb either. If you're not careful, they'll remove you from the game fairly efficiently. They're limited to Tiers 1 & 2, and you don't earn any credits from them once you have a certain number of battles. They do prove to be a lot of fun if you're waiting for a game to end and want your tank back. Games are fast, fluid, and engaging. The AI doesn't camp... they'll actively push you without regard. It really changes the way you fight, and can be very refreshing at times. 

 

https://worldoftanks...unds-mode-10-0/

 

Thought 2 - Alternative to SBMM


We all know that MM from time to time turns into absolute diarrhea ... all over the place ... number of people to pick from grows small... not a lot of tanks to pick from... mm just waits for enough people to enter the queue and throws something together. We get in and we're like UGH... probably about the same reaction, as if we came home and the dog shat on the carpet... can't do anything about it now... it's already done... just have to make due. 

 

PVE comes in... You can switch over to fighting bots. Your Queue time will never be more than 30 seconds, as the server can fill the empty slots with bots if players aren't available for a fair matchup. You don't earn as many credits, but you still get to play. People get to grind their tank lines in peace, without wanting to level a small forest outside with an axe. Bots can get absolutely obliterated all day again and again over and over, and it never becomes dull. The thrill of WoT is not in the victory most of the time. The fun comes from the little exchanges you have against an enemy tank. Bouncing this round and tracking him, while your allies wail on him. Great thing is, you don't ever have to feel any remorse for one shotting that light tank that just flew over the mountain... it's just a bot... he doesn't care... he's just code. A human player will want to throw his keyboard... yell at his team for being [edited] [edited] morons and learn how to play, along with telling them that they fornicate with their mothers and they should kill themselves. You get where I'm going with this. Some things in this game are very fun, but it creates toxicity on the opposite side when you mess up... and when you're on the receiving end, it's never fun.... games are about fun after all... right? No wonder why the community tends to be very toxic. 

 

Thought 3 - PVE WILL ALLOW PLAYERS TO PAD STATS


True, no argument there. 

How about no WN8 or WR earned from playing PVE. Fair? 

 

Thought 4 - PVE Allows players to grind to the top faster without ever having learned how to play


Oh definitely... can't have a bunch of tomatoes at T10 running around not knowing what to do ... that'd be terrible.... it'd be almost.... oh wait no it'd be exactly like what it is now... where skill doesn't matter and if someone puts in enough time and spends enough money, they can have all the Tier 10s in the world, without ever having learned. 

 

However, the people who aren't competitive and would probably be terrible teammates will probably end up playing PVE. Obviously credits and XP are the incentive to play PVP, but if you remove players who have no regard for teamwork or any sort of coordination by allowing them to exit on their own, then you'll see an improvement in the quality of games. 

 

Example of this. Say you just unlocked a new tank. It's now stuck as a stock tank. Against your human counter parts, it's going to be absolute trash. Not everyone has the budget to spend on gold to get free XP and unlock everything on the tank... so... you go off to play PVE. You can unlock everything on the tank much faster than you could against humans of the same tier who have fully upgraded tanks, and earn more damage thus giving you a consistent grind, instead of an inconsistent "well I happened to find someone who was AFK and farmed them". Players are less aggravated because they feel relevant, and WG keeps players sticking around... and if there's anything Cosco has taught us ... if you keep people in your store longer, they're going to be more inclined to buy things. 

 

Thought 5 - How does WG make money off PVE?


You'd be absolutely shocked at how many people play with premium battleships, cruisers, and destroyers in World of Warships. Some people don't care about the grind or the meta at all... they just want to shoot some other ships with one of their all time favorite ships (I love my Cleveland class cruiser to death).

 

Parallel this to World of Tanks... 

 

Also, you're more likely to attract bees with honey than vinegar. Forcing your player base to buy upgrades, gold, Premium Time, and Premium Tanks, in order to offset the cost of grinding a terrible tank is not how you attract more volumes of sales. In fact, I would be very interested to see the correlation between who buys more in World of Warships... Majority PVP or PVE players. I have a gut feeling it's the latter. When players are happy, they're more likely to get ahead. 

 

Lets use Candy Crush to illustrate this point. 

Oh yes, that game we all love to hate. There are some levels in Candy Crush that are just impossible, because of the initial positioning of the pieces and the obstacles placed on the game board for that level. As a result, King gives players boosters... allowing you to mix up the game board... get ahead... nuke some of those bad game pieces, for the low low price of $0.25. What's it to you? It's only a quarter... until you do it over and over for the span of 200 levels ($50). Sure you could just reset the level and do it all over again hoping to get a better roll this time, but you're giving up money in exchange for getting ahead. Now, before you jump to pay to win... that's not the path we're headed towards. Imagine that playing without boosters is playing PVP mode. Yeah it's harder and in WoT there's more reward for doing better, but if you used boosters to beat the level (in Candy Crush), are you any less satisfied than if you hadn't? Is it better to win period? Or Win after being frustrated as hell with a game.... think on this... seriously. 

 

If someone is happy playing PVE mode, and making decent credits, they're going to be more inclined to buy Premium Time or Gold to unlock Free XP, than someone who is absolutely pissed off at the game, MM, and all the toxicity that comes off of players who are equally having a rough time (I know, I've been there). Happy players are definitely more than willing to part with their money. If that happiness comes from playing against bots, then so be it. The idea is for WG to make money, so they can keep the servers open and continue playing Employees. That's it... You wouldn't want Meat Head to lose his job because the game collapsed, now would you? 

 

Thought 6 - Artillery


Careful now lads... yee be enterin dangerous waters with this  section. No but seriously this is a very valid point for this. 

 

The biggest hate that Artillery gets is when players get nuked by it, after trying their best to not get shot by it. To not get shot by it you have to remain "Arty Safe" aka unspotted (because let's be honest... artillery can hit just about anywhere on any map if it tries).

 

In a PVE mode, this is no longer a problem, as players would be far more inclined to work with their Artillery players to stun and overcome bots spotted out in the field. Coordinated attacks and ambushes are much easier and fun to set up against opponents that do what you expect them to do, instead of thinking for themselves individually. Teamwork promotes positive gameplay. Positive gameplay promotes fun, and fun means that people in the game, will be far more likely to get players who don't play, to join. More people join, increases server queues ... you get where I'm going with this. 

 

Thought 7 - Armored Warfare PROVED IT WILL NEVER WORK


Oh boy... can't tell you how many times I've heard this one. Literally can't... it's like engraved in people's heads, the same way the get about Apple products or something... 

 

Lets knock out some of the things AW did wrong... or rather, Obsidian Entertainment (OE from now on) was forced to do by MailRU / My.com

  • PVE was always missions
  • PVE was never the same format as PVP
  • PVE spawned enemies directly behind you and around you... enemies were never initially on the field to be spotted. 
    • Ever played those classic arcade games like Time Crisis? You know how they have these points where someone will quickly pop up from the bottom of the screen and shoot you before you can block it? Yeah, that's intentional by the way. It's there so you'll lose life and have to insert more coins. Likewise, enemies were supposed to spawn randomly around you, in order to remove your health, and make the game mode harder. A lot of those shots, were incapable of being avoided. It was also there, so that you'd spend consumables in order to stay alive longer. 2 consumables were added to the game as a result of this. 1 for a revive with half your life upon death, and the other was to give you full health, ammo, and smoke again. You could only bring one, so you had to choose based on your play style. 
  • Repetitive missions become very stale when the enemies spawn in the exact same spot every game, and with the exact same tanks. When you can name off what is going to spawn and when, it's not even fun any longer. 

 

These are just a few... we're not getting into the terrible economy, the bad progression system, the confusing stat system, add ons to the tank that upgraded tanks stats without balancing the tanks stock first... yeah... 

 

So to say that PVE is the reason AW died, is far from accurate, and shows just how little you know of AW. Speaking as someone who was a part of the pre-alpha group of beta testers... 

 

Thought 8 - The final thought - Some people, just don't like playing against other people. 


I'm one of them. I'm not a fan of playing against real people. I do it... but I don't get any pleasure or value out of it. Every time I send someone back to the garage, I feel slightly bad for them, knowing what it's like to be shut down like that. Especially if you blow someone up. Yeah it looks awesome, but now that person is stuck waiting for their tank to be unlocked so they can play it again. That might be the tank they love to play, and only want to play it, but you just took that away from them. It's not so bad if you're at the end of the match and there's only 5 people left alive. That kind of gameplay is riveting, fast and exciting. If you get taken out, you're disappointed, but satisfied. However, if you're like the 3rd person in the game to be taken out, and there's still 12 min left in the game, it's quite frustrating.... and remember our little chat about happy players spend money... yeah... not great. 

 

Closing Thoughts


I just compiled these as the main thoughts I've seen from the community over the span of the past 12 months or so. Some of the biggest gripes people have had in game... some of the biggest issues going on in the community... I'm sure there are more arguments that could be made as to why PVE would be a great idea... and I'm sure there will be those who argue that it will split up the already dwindling player base further, to which, I say it looks like it's doing that on it's own now... and some growth wouldn't be bad. If all else fails, we all get our accounts moved over to EU anyways, and there's plenty of people over there to play against, so ... what do you honestly have to lose. 

 

I'd rather not lose what we have though. I'd like to gain players. I had a friend install the PC client on his laptop the other day (he's been playing the game on his PS4 a lot) and his first comment was "Wow, this is a lot more fun than on the PS4" ... :eyeroll: no duh... 

 

If adding a PVE mode, means we can have more players playing on the server, then it has the potential to add players to PVP as well as PVE... and by letting people have a fun outlet while still playing the game, allows WG to open the relief valve on the toxicity building up in the community.... I think everyone's on board with that idea at least... 

 

Anyways, I'm gonna head back to grinding this Type 61. Here's hoping I get the STB before this on track ends...

 

That's it for now, good luck on the battlefield 



Canadian_Mano #2 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 11:39

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If you want a PvE tank game go play AW. Oh. PvE is a bad idea, especially for our low server pop, because it will give all the bads, who comprise like 80% of the server pop, a safe space to generally be bad in, which means regular queue tops out at 20% of server pop. Lengthens queue times and creates those fun 8v7 or 4v4 queue dump games

johnmadara #3 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 11:43

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if you want PvE then go play AW... oh right its dead, I wonder why

CapPhrases #4 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 11:49

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I get the feeling people don't actually read the posts anymore...

johnmadara #5 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 11:51

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View PostCapPhrases, on Sep 13 2017 - 10:49, said:

I get the feeling people don't actually read the posts anymore...

 

we arnt going to waste our time reading a 2300 word wall of text over why PvE is somehow good  

theSparatan117 #6 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 12:06

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View Postjohnmadara, on Sep 13 2017 - 05:51, said:

 

we arnt going to waste our time reading a 2300 word wall of text over why PvE is somehow good  

 

I broke it up into sections...

You should seriously read Thought 7



johnmadara #7 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 12:11

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View PosttheSparatan117, on Sep 13 2017 - 11:06, said:

 

I broke it up into sections...

You should seriously read Thought 7

 

you basically described why PvE is bad, AI in general is too repetitive...

Edited by johnmadara, Sep 13 2017 - 12:11.


theSparatan117 #8 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 12:16

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View Postjohnmadara, on Sep 13 2017 - 06:11, said:

 

you basically described why PvE is bad, AI in general is too repetitive...

 

As if PVP is any better.

Being predictable is what inspires confidence from playing against AI. 

Not knowing what is going to be around the next turn is what makes it fun. 

 

Also, AI don't give a flip about their health, which will lead to a lot more "Oh [edited]" moments where people freak out and try to deal with a coordinated push by AI, instead of the dysfunctional soup that is random battles. 

 

Plus, AI pre-spawning on the field just like any other game in WoT will already be drastically different than AW's implementation of it... 

 

Your move. 



MacDaddyMatty #9 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 12:23

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Will the dead bots arm-chair-quarterback the game, and then follow me into my garage crying with an incomprehensible slew of (assumed) insults?

Nah, I'll play against the current hoard of (mostly) sentient keyboard-punchers.



johnmadara #10 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 12:37

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View PosttheSparatan117, on Sep 13 2017 - 11:16, said:

 

As if PVP is any better.

Being predictable is what inspires confidence from playing against AI. 

Not knowing what is going to be around the next turn is what makes it fun. 

 

Also, AI don't give a flip about their health, which will lead to a lot more "Oh [edited]" moments where people freak out and try to deal with a coordinated push by AI, instead of the dysfunctional soup that is random battles. 

 

Plus, AI pre-spawning on the field just like any other game in WoT will already be drastically different than AW's implementation of it... 

 

Your move. 

 

so you want random battles to not be random???

lionheart1118 #11 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 12:37

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Pve killed aw, don't need it to kill the player base of the game also.

theSparatan117 #12 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 12:44

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View Postjohnmadara, on Sep 13 2017 - 06:37, said:

 

so you want random battles to not be random???

 

No I'm not saying that. 

 

Having a PVE Mode where everything is essentially exactly the same as PVP, but the opposite team is AI instead of real players, and you earn less XP from it. 

 

You get in return:

  • Fun Engaging games
  • Less toxic team-mates
  • Que Times of 30 sec or less for any tier
  • Consistent XP grind 

 

Random Tanks... Random maps... Random Tier placement. (Unless you're tier 8 then screw you)



theSparatan117 #13 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 12:45

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View Postlionheart1118, on Sep 13 2017 - 06:37, said:

Pve killed aw, don't need it to kill the player base of the game also.

 

Learn to read... 

ColonelShakes #14 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 12:49

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View PostCanadian_Mano, on Sep 13 2017 - 11:39, said:

because it will give all the bads, who comprise like 80% of the server pop

 

 

Failed math eh ?



lionheart1118 #15 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 12:52

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View PosttheSparatan117, on Sep 13 2017 - 11:45, said:

 

Learn to read... 

I did read, just because you say something doesn't mean it will work out that way. Either way you look at it it will pull a pool of players out of PvP thus making que times even longer and the mm throwing whatever game it can together resulting in more games where people are down 2 tires than we already have. If wargaming thinks pref mm tanks existing creates a mm problem then this would have a far more reaching affect. This is a dumb idea period. Deal with it.



Arclyte #16 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 12:58

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PvE is the #1 reason AW died

 

nope.jpg



theSparatan117 #17 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 13:02

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I honestly don't understand how people on here can make a comparison between AW and WoT as far as PVE goes. 

 

AW's Mission PvE implimentation has no parallel to WoT's would be PvE mode. 

 

The only direct parallel you could draw is WoWS, and clearly there's no increase of queue time over there for PVP... so your argument  is null and void. 



lionheart1118 #18 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 13:05

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View PosttheSparatan117, on Sep 13 2017 - 12:02, said:

I honestly don't understand how people on here can make a comparison between AW and WoT as far as PVE goes. 

 

AW's Mission PvE implimentation has no parallel to WoT's would be PvE mode. 

 

The only direct parallel you could draw is WoWS, and clearly there's no increase of queue time over there for PVP... so your argument over there is null and void. 

Well for 1 the teams are far smaller. 2 last I knew wows filled out empty spots with ai. So I mean that's two things there.



SuperTankDriver #19 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 13:08

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View PostColonelShakes, on Sep 13 2017 - 11:49, said:

 

 

Failed math eh ?

 

the amount of terrible players in this game is far far greater than purple players. 80% is not a special value, it's probably somewhere around that.

theSparatan117 #20 Posted Sep 13 2017 - 13:08

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View Postlionheart1118, on Sep 13 2017 - 07:05, said:

Well for 1 the teams are far smaller. 2 last I knew wows filled out empty spots with ai. So I mean that's two things there.

 

1 far less people play WoWS than WoT currently 

2 who cares if your teammates are AI as well as your opponents? That's more potential damage for you, and teammates that will never shoot you. 

 







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