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M4 sherman or T1 heavy?


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RiotAnts #21 Posted Dec 02 2018 - 00:52

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Im planning to get the t1 almost done with the grind

dunniteowl #22 Posted Dec 02 2018 - 05:40

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View Postthefastkiller45, on Sep 19 2017 - 20:30, said:

so im about to research a new tier V tank but i dont know which one, the M4 SHERMAN or T1 HEAVY 

anyone know which one is better?

 :unsure:

 

Between the two, you'll gimp your team less with the M4.  You're going to die fast from the looks of things.  If you want to live a bit longer, then the T1 Heavy.  In either case, please read this through over time very carefully with an eye towards improving YOUR understanding of the game.

 

HVY and MED tanks are played relatively differently, due to their HP pools and overall armor makeups, gun types and other factors such as speed, maneuverability and gun depression.  Those come with each tank and you should also study those. 

 

The WoT Welcome Package

 

I won't go on to describe what's in it, it tells you up front what you're getting.

 

If you decide NOT to read that, then I leave you with this bit of advice that would serve any tanker well if they can understand it:


Survive (if you can't/don't survive you cannot)

Do Damage (if you can't/don't do this find a way to)

Help Your Team (if you can't/won't do this, you will have a harder time to)

 

Win (which is never guaranteed)

 

Read the Package.  It will help, I promise.

 


GL, HF & HSYBF!

OvO



hoenndeathnoodle #23 Posted Dec 02 2018 - 06:07

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View Postthefastkiller45, on Sep 19 2017 - 21:30, said:

so im about to research a new tier V tank but i dont know which one, the M4 SHERMAN or T1 HEAVY 

anyone know which one is better?

 :unsure:

 

just go for both. it will take you MAYBE like a week of grinding to get both and both tanks aren't half bad, especially the M4. My memories of the T1 are far foggier though. I haven't had one in my garage for like 4 years

AverageWannabe #24 Posted Dec 04 2018 - 01:05

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View PostOldFrog75, on Sep 21 2017 - 10:56, said:

 

I disagree.  I played over 2000 battles in Tiers I-III before moving up to Tiers IV-V.  If a player can't carry their weight in Tier III, how can they possibly carry their weight in Tier V or above?

 

 

I disagree. If you are already an educated and somewhat intelligent person that want to learn math you don't go to kindergarten to learn how to count 1, 2, 3, you go to a good mathematician that'll teach you in the shortest amount of time possible. Same thing here... I find that in the lower tiers i have nothing to learn cause everyone sucks and do stupid s**t... it is friggin chaos, only thing i can do is to learn how to survive as long as possible and without any control on the game result. Tier 5 and 6 not so good either. Tier 8? Now we're talking! I love playing tier 8 cause there I can actually learn from my teammates, all the time! And I can also do good and help, they rarely complain about my playing, and I almost always classify at the end results around the 8th place, sometimes even higher reaching up to 3rd place. So, no low tiers for me thank you very much.

Edited by AverageWannabe, Dec 04 2018 - 01:15.


dunniteowl #25 Posted Dec 04 2018 - 01:15

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View PostAverageWannabe, on Dec 03 2018 - 18:05, said:

 

I disagree. If you are already an educated and somewhat intelligent person that want to learn math you don't go to kindergarten to learn to count 1, 2, 3, you go to a good mathematician that'll teach you in the shortest amount of time possible. Same thing here... I find that in the lower tiers i have nothing to learn cause everyone sucks and do stupid s**t... it is friggin chaos, only thing i can do is to learn how to survive as long as possible and without any control on the game result. Tier 5 and 6 not so good either. Tier 8? Now we're talking! I love playing tier 8 cause there I can actually learn from my teammates, all the time! And I can also do good and help, they rarely complain about my playing, and I almost always classify at the end results around the 8th place, sometimes even higher reaching up to 3rd place. So, no low tiers for me thank you very much.

 

You, sir, do not know what you're talking about and comparing learning math to playing this game shows that.

 

You can LEARN this game at any tier and the lower tiers are there for you to get your crap in one bucket, so to speak so that you are not an active Reduction in the chance to win a match with your fellow Tier 8 Players, who, by working their way up there, expect you to already KNOW what you are doing.  You do not yet know that and do not get much out of getting rekt at tier 8 other than a few more credits -- oh, and I'd wager, a good deal more salt from your team mates.

 

Tier V is where most folks say go to get the best "education."  As a forum contrarian in this matter, I think folks should take their time and learn the game at lower tiers (3-5, really and you should bounce between them -- a LOT) so that when you get to tiers 6-8 you have more than a clue as to what's going on.  By this time you should already know how to use the mini-map to maintain an awareness of the flow of the match (called Situational Awareness -- it's not just a Radio Operator's Perk) and to time your movements to those of your team mates, not block your team mates and to know the majority of the weaknesses of the tanks you are playing as well as those you will play against.


At your number of matches, I can honestly say, You Do NOT belong above tier 5.

 

Of course you are free to play any tier you can afford, but don't fool yourself that getting rekt at tier 8 is a better education for you.  Right now you are a boat anchor to your team, dragging the bottom of the sea bed and bringing down the chances of your team to win.  This is a solid fact.  It has nothing to do with anything other than your near total ignorance of how the game plays at tier 3 much less at tier 8.

 

OvO



AverageWannabe #26 Posted Dec 04 2018 - 01:46

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View Postdunniteowl, on Dec 03 2018 - 20:15, said:

 

You, sir, do not know what you're talking about and comparing learning math to playing this game shows that.

 

You can LEARN this game at any tier and the lower tiers are there for you to get your crap in one bucket, so to speak so that you are not an active Reduction in the chance to win a match with your fellow Tier 8 Players, who, by working their way up there, expect you to already KNOW what you are doing.  You do not yet know that and do not get much out of getting rekt at tier 8 other than a few more credits -- oh, and I'd wager, a good deal more salt from your team mates.

 

Tier V is where most folks say go to get the best "education."  As a forum contrarian in this matter, I think folks should take their time and learn the game at lower tiers (3-5, really and you should bounce between them -- a LOT) so that when you get to tiers 6-8 you have more than a clue as to what's going on.  By this time you should already know how to use the mini-map to maintain an awareness of the flow of the match (called Situational Awareness -- it's not just a Radio Operator's Perk) and to time your movements to those of your team mates, not block your team mates and to know the majority of the weaknesses of the tanks you are playing as well as those you will play against.


At your number of matches, I can honestly say, You Do NOT belong above tier 5.

 

Of course you are free to play any tier you can afford, but don't fool yourself that getting rekt at tier 8 is a better education for you.  Right now you are a boat anchor to your team, dragging the bottom of the sea bed and bringing down the chances of your team to win.  This is a solid fact.  It has nothing to do with anything other than your near total ignorance of how the game plays at tier 3 much less at tier 8.

 

OvO

 

well sir, you sure are entitled to your own opinion as much as i am entitled to think that your opinion doesn't fit me at all. You are presuming a lot of stuff about me btw...

 

This is not an easy game, if you want to play it correctly that is, specially for a noob. So comparing learning math to learning the game is totally ok, and that comes from a pretty smart person, trust me on that one. So no thank you, I'll keep playing at tier 8 so I can keep my pace at learning this very fun game.



dunniteowl #27 Posted Dec 04 2018 - 06:39

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Read the WoT Welcome Package, please.

 

And no, learning math is nothing compared to learning this game, unless of course you'd like to learn calculus in the 4th grade.


I assume nothing.  I check your stats, your number of battles and -- using math and statistics -- can discern a LOT about your current skill level.  A LOT!

 

As I said, you can feel free to play any tier you like.  I honestly can tell you, however, that you do not belong in tier 8 and many others who habituate in those tiers would happily tell you the same based on exactly the same information I used.  Of this I am certain.  Yes, it is my opinion.  That opinion, however is not based on just my feels as yours is.  It is based on my understanding of that game -- the one you admit is hard to learn.  You will learn more and it will cost you less in credits and frustration to slow your roll, back down to tiers 4 and 5, possibly tier 3 a few times more as well.

 

In the meantime, however, regardless of your opinion of my opinion.  Please read The WoT Welcome Package I provided the OP above.  You WILL benefit from it if you do read it and do so with an honest assessment of your actual ability in this game.  Right now, you actively bring down the chance of winning on any team you are on.  That's stats talking, not me.

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!

OvO



AverageWannabe #28 Posted Dec 04 2018 - 07:47

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View Postdunniteowl, on Dec 04 2018 - 01:39, said:

Read the WoT Welcome Package, please.

 

And no, learning math is nothing compared to learning this game, unless of course you'd like to learn calculus in the 4th grade.


I assume nothing.  I check your stats, your number of battles and -- using math and statistics -- can discern a LOT about your current skill level.  A LOT!

 

As I said, you can feel free to play any tier you like.  I honestly can tell you, however, that you do not belong in tier 8 and many others who habituate in those tiers would happily tell you the same based on exactly the same information I used.  Of this I am certain.  Yes, it is my opinion.  That opinion, however is not based on just my feels as yours is.  It is based on my understanding of that game -- the one you admit is hard to learn.  You will learn more and it will cost you less in credits and frustration to slow your roll, back down to tiers 4 and 5, possibly tier 3 a few times more as well.

 

In the meantime, however, regardless of your opinion of my opinion.  Please read The WoT Welcome Package I provided the OP above.  You WILL benefit from it if you do read it and do so with an honest assessment of your actual ability in this game.  Right now, you actively bring down the chance of winning on any team you are on.  That's stats talking, not me.

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!

OvO

 

Typical fool that think stats is everything. Ok, lets talk stats.... looking at your stats they tell me that you have played friggin 23209 battles. With a stupidly low average exp per battle of a mere 275exp and also with a very sucky 351 average damage per battle. And worst of all in fkn 23000 battles your maximum experience earned in a battle is 1600?!?!? I mean really? wow... you really suck at the game, and you go around trying to lesson people? You should stay shut just for your own dignity bro and try to actually learn how to be proficient at the game.

 I am a fkn noob struggling trying to learn the game and with almost 500 battles in my pocket I already have a max exp in battle of 1137 (earned in a tier 8-10 battle btw), and my average exp per battle and hit percentage are already higher than yours.... I am so sorry but your stats are laughable. And that's without saying that your most played vehicle by FAR is a fkn arty!? ...ok, let me lol for a minute 

 

Anyway... These are the stats from someone worth listening, whom i actually like to listen to:

 

https://worldoftanks.com/en/community/accounts/1008450352-LemmingRush/

 

Check out his youtube channel, you might learn a thing or two, or maybe not.

 

Take care.

 


Edited by AverageWannabe, Dec 04 2018 - 08:12.


dunniteowl #29 Posted Dec 04 2018 - 16:23

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Well, you certainly LIVE UP to your handle, Mr. Wannabee, because you are not average now, nor, with your attitude, will you ever be.  You go ahead thinking you got it all figured out, buddy.  In the meantime, when I see you on the Battle Field, I will certainly desperately HOPE you are on the Red Team.

 

 

Good Day to you sir.

 

OvO


Edited by dunniteowl, Dec 04 2018 - 16:23.


Peak_Bagger #30 Posted Dec 04 2018 - 17:24

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Averagewannabe, you and dunniteowl have completely opposite approaches to the game. You have pushed up more quickly than most people ever do while dunniteowl is taking a more methodical approach to progressing through the tiers. It's no surprise that your opinions would be in conflict. Dunniteowl does have a lot more experience, however. One other thing to think about, Averagewannabe, is that while you're learning the game at higher tiers against vastly more experienced players, you're also playing on a non-level playing field. Players at tier 8 most likely have 3-4 skill crews in their tanks with BIA, 6th sense, camo, etc. This makes a huge difference for skilled players. The deck is stacked dramatically against you. That just doesn't seem fair for you.

 

In any case, you're playing at a rate of more than 1,000 games a month. You're a keener!. Good luck and happy tanking! 



AverageWannabe #31 Posted Dec 04 2018 - 18:25

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View Postdunniteowl, on Dec 04 2018 - 11:23, said:

Well, you certainly LIVE UP to your handle, Mr. Wannabee, because you are not average now, nor, with your attitude, will you ever be.  You go ahead thinking you got it all figured out, buddy.  In the meantime, when I see you on the Battle Field, I will certainly desperately HOPE you are on the Red Team.

 

 

Good Day to you sir.

 

OvO

 

Lol.. Challenge accepted! Looking forward to put a few holes into your fkn bishop :izmena:

 

A good day to you too.

 

Average Wannabe.



dunniteowl #32 Posted Dec 04 2018 - 18:43

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I figured, as AW actually brought NUMBERS into it, I'd make a comparison.  Which numbers would YOU rather have?

 

 

  Total Past 24 Hours Past 7 days Past 30 days 60 days • 1000 Battles
Battles 496 238 450 450 450
Avg. Tier 5.2 6.2 5.35 5.35 5.35
Victories 215 43.35% 94 39.5% 194 43.11% 194 43.11% 194 43.11%
Defeats 270 54.44 142 59.66% 248 55.11% 248 55.11% 248 55.11%
Draws 11 2.22 2 0.84% 8 1.78% 8 1.78% 8 1.78%
Survived 91 18.35 45 18.91% 83 18.44% 83 18.44% 83 18.44%
Destroyed 130 0.26 74 0.31 119 0.26 119 0.26 119 0.26
K/D Ratio 0.32 0.38 0.32 0.32 0.32
Detected 297 0.6 97 0.41 271 0.6 271 0.6 271 0.6
Damage 104223 210.13 71004 298.34 100611 223.58 100611 223.58 100611 223.58
Capture Points 96 0.19 0 0 96 0.21 96 0.21 96 0.21
Defense Points 234 0.47 234 0.98 234 0.52 234 0.52 234 0.52
Experience 153067 308.6 84642 355.64 143527 318.95 143527 318.95 143527 318.95
WN8 167 157 172 172 172

 

 

Or:

 

 

  Total Past 24 Hours Past 7 days Past 30 days 60 days • 1000 Battles
Battles 23209 33 288 825 1317
Avg. Tier 4.44 4.83 4.84 4.87 4.88
Victories 11794 50.82% 13 39.39% 137 47.57% 425 51.52% 673 51.1%
Defeats 11217 48.33 20 60.61% 149 51.74% 391 47.39% 633 48.06%
Draws 198 0.85 0 0% 2 0.69% 9 1.09% 11 0.84%
Survived 7636 32.9 14 42.42% 99 34.38% 318 38.55% 510 38.72%
Destroyed 16609 0.72 32 0.97 220 0.76 650 0.79 1076 0.82
K/D Ratio 1.07 1.68 1.16 1.28 1.33
Detected 13583 0.59 8 0.24 94 0.33 245 0.3 310 0.24
Damage 8164326 351.77 14306 433.52 120502 418.41 356504 432.13 589524 447.63
Capture Points 9523 0.41 0 0 49 0.17 100 0.12 232 0.18
Defense Points 17460 0.75 10 0.3 344 1.19 784 0.95 953 0.72
Experience 6389723 275.31 13368 405.09 115535 401.16 321613 389.83 455511 345.87
WN8 881 826 861 940 957

 

At other ends of the spectrum, we can compare the average based on expected values, which is where the Green and the Red come into play, green means it's above average for the tier spreads and red means below average for the tier spread.

 

I play lower tiers, thus my damage is BOUND to be lower in general.  That said, were we to compare the amount of damage someone at tier 8 SHOULD be doing, compared to someone at tier 5, there would be a Large Disparity in Expected Values.

 

This is more what this chart indicates.

 

WN8 Rating 159 Very bad
Performance Rating 762 Bad
Battles 496
Win Rate 43.35% Very bad
Average damage 210
Average experience 309
Maximum experience 1,137
Average kills 0.26

 

  Overall Most recent Last ~7 days Last ~1,000 battles Last 17,078 battles
WN8 Rating 880 Average 823 -0.5 823 -0.5 938 +2.9 1,011 +388.5
Performance Rating 1,253 Average 1,209 -0.5 1,209 -0.5 1,297 +1.9 1,326 +243.8
Battles 23,209 261 261 825 17,078
Win Rate 50.82% Above avg. 46.74% -0.05% 46.74% -0.05% 51.52% +0.03% 51.65% +2.31%
Average damage 352 409 +0.6 409 +0.6 432 +3.0 403 +142.4
Average experience 275 390 +1.3 390 +1.3 390 +4.2 293 +50.0

 

As I said before, please feel free to do it your way.  But when you make comparisons of numbers (that whole math analogy YOU brought up, fumbled and then allowed me to intercept) you have to compare the numbers to the numbers in a way that makes ordered sense.

 

Again, I have to ask, which set of these numbers would YOU rather have?  My damage is lower due to my tiers played.  They are MUCH MORE CONSISTENT and in the positive range.  The reason for this is that I have taken, as PeakBagger mentions, a MORE MEASURED APPROACH.

 

More measured in the sense that I took my time and learned what I was doing.  More measured in that I use my stats as a way to figure out where I need to improve on my performance in game.  More measured in that I am patient.  More measured in that I am being more practical in my approach to the game.

 

Which would YOU (this is not to the OP, but to anyone who reads this) rather have as something by which You WILL be measured by others when it comes to whether or not you know what you're doing?  The choice IS yours.

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!

OvO


Edited by dunniteowl, Dec 04 2018 - 18:49.


AverageWannabe #33 Posted Dec 04 2018 - 18:44

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View PostPeak_Bagger, on Dec 04 2018 - 12:24, said:

Averagewannabe, you and dunniteowl have completely opposite approaches to the game. You have pushed up more quickly than most people ever do while dunniteowl is taking a more methodical approach to progressing through the tiers. It's no surprise that your opinions would be in conflict. Dunniteowl does have a lot more experience, however. One other thing to think about, Averagewannabe, is that while you're learning the game at higher tiers against vastly more experienced players, you're also playing on a non-level playing field. Players at tier 8 most likely have 3-4 skill crews in their tanks with BIA, 6th sense, camo, etc. This makes a huge difference for skilled players. The deck is stacked dramatically against you. That just doesn't seem fair for you.

 

In any case, you're playing at a rate of more than 1,000 games a month. You're a keener!. Good luck and happy tanking! 

 

Hey there, thanks for the friendly response. Yea maybe you're right, problem is that said person likes to invalidate my approach suggesting along the way that I am a stupid or something like that, without even knowing my background. Besides, his stats really speak.

 But anyway... whatever.

 

You're also right about the disadvantages of playing on the higher tiers being a noob with undeveloped crews. Still sometimes I can do pretty well and the extra difficulty helps me learn even faster, which is what I'm trying to accomplish. I think I'm those kind of people that need to be subject to high pressure or demands, then it's when i do best. 

 

Damn right I'm a keener!! Lovin the game.

 

Cheers and see you on the battlefield.


Edited by AverageWannabe, Dec 04 2018 - 19:14.


dunniteowl #34 Posted Dec 04 2018 - 18:53

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Never said you were stupid or implied it.  I did say you are playing a tier beyond your ability.  Please don't put words there that I didn't say.  I say what I mean and imply nothing.  I did say you were a detriment to your team at those tiers.  I did say the numbers support those statements.  I did say that the math analogy was flawed.

I think I have not implied you were stupid.  Impatient, yes.  I will now add somewhat arrogant to that.

 

OvO



AverageWannabe #35 Posted Dec 04 2018 - 18:58

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But you play arty,  I like to brawl in the front line or second line with my TD.

 

 To be honest, taking into account that my account is a little over two weeks old, I rather have my numbers, by a huge margin... like PLEASE LET ME KEEP MY NUMBERS, PLEEAAAAASEEEE!

If my futures stats were doomed to be like yours, i'd quit the game right now.

 

But hey, that's just me I suppose.



the_Deadly_Bulb #36 Posted Dec 04 2018 - 19:03

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View PostAverageWannabe, on Dec 04 2018 - 09:44, said:

 

Hey there, thanks for the friendly response. Yea maybe you're right, problem is that said person likes to invalidate my approach suggesting along the way that I am a stupid or something like that, without even knowing my background. Besides, his stats really speak.

 But anyway... whatever.

 

You're also right about the disadvantages of playing on the higher tiers being a noob with undeveloped crews. Still sometimes I can do pretty well and the extra difficulty helps me learn even faster, which is what I'm trying to accomplish. I think I'm those kind of people that need to be subject of high pressure or demands, then it's when i do best.

 

Damn right I'm a keener!! Lovin the game.

 

Cheers and see you on the battlefield.

 

Yes you are a keener.

It will  be interesting to see how far you get before you tap out in frustration.


 

Keeners, in general, burn out in this game like gas soaked candles.

You'll soon tire of being a damage piñata.


 

You've been provided sound advice with which you've wiped your backside.


 

Best of luck. :honoring:


Edited by the_Deadly_Bulb, Dec 04 2018 - 19:04.


AverageWannabe #37 Posted Dec 04 2018 - 19:04

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View Postdunniteowl, on Dec 03 2018 - 20:15, said:

 

You, sir, do not know what you're talking about and comparing learning math to playing this game shows that.

 

 

OvO

that's an elegant way of saying "you, sir, are a moron"  Lol


Edited by AverageWannabe, Dec 04 2018 - 19:14.


AverageWannabe #38 Posted Dec 04 2018 - 19:08

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View Postthe_Deadly_Bulb, on Dec 04 2018 - 14:03, said:

 

Yes you are a keener.

It will  be interesting to see how far you get before you tap out in frustration.


 

Keeners, in general, burn out in this game like gas soaked candles.

You'll soon tire of being a damage piñata.


 

You've been provided sound advice with which you've wiped your backside.


 

Best of luck. :honoring:

 

i'm no pinata... normally when i don't fkup cause of a stupid decision I'm from the last 2-3 killed. And don't worry, I am not a quitter. 

Thanks tho.



the_Deadly_Bulb #39 Posted Dec 04 2018 - 19:09

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View PostAverageWannabe, on Dec 04 2018 - 10:04, said:

that an elegant way of saying "you, sir, are a moron"  Lol

 

You also personalise way to hard.

What Owl said was you don't know what you're talking about as per WoT.

No where did he say you were stupid.

Got a "stupid complex" perhaps?


 

Owl was accurate, your knowledge of this game is extremely shallow. Feel free to swim in the deep end.

It won't be long and you'll be back here with a "this game is rigged" thread.


 


Edited by the_Deadly_Bulb, Dec 04 2018 - 19:13.


GAJohnnie #40 Posted Dec 04 2018 - 19:12

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View PostAverageWannabe, on Dec 03 2018 - 19:05, said:

 

I disagree. If you are already an educated and somewhat intelligent person that want to learn math you don't go to kindergarten to learn how to count 1, 2, 3, you go to a good mathematician that'll teach you in the shortest amount of time possible. Same thing here... I find that in the lower tiers i have nothing to learn cause everyone sucks and do stupid s**t... it is friggin chaos, only thing i can do is to learn how to survive as long as possible and without any control on the game result. Tier 5 and 6 not so good either. Tier 8? Now we're talking! I love playing tier 8 cause there I can actually learn from my teammates, all the time! And I can also do good and help, they rarely complain about my playing, and I almost always classify at the end results around the 8th place, sometimes even higher reaching up to 3rd place. So, no low tiers for me thank you very much.

 

Right so using this logic we should all skip elementary school and high school and go straight to college so we can "learn"

 

Problem with that "logic: is, unless you are a re-roll, you don't know enough about the game to know what you are seeing at tier 8. You are not actually learning anything, you just being complete dead weight to any team your on.

 

Any team you are on automatically starts out 1 gun down because any tank you are in you do not  know enough about playing it to even be a useful meat shield.

 

Looking at your bragged about  "stats" you are not even averaging 1 shot of damage a game in your tier 8. You are nothing but dead weight for you team to carry. Hiding in back being useless until the real players do all the work for you is not "being in the game to the last kill". it is just being completely useless.

 

So sorry to pop your narcissistic little bubble world, but at your current skill level, you are not at all ready to be playing above teir 4 right now.






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