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The problem with arty is...


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Bull_Dozer_42 #1 Posted Sep 21 2017 - 23:44

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First, let me say I think Arty plays an important roll in this game.  It adds atmosphere and, for a game like this, atmosphere is really important.  When arty is on the map, I feel myself looking over my shoulder, having to keep moving, and playing a much different game compared to battles without arty.  KEEP ARTY IN GAME.  However, I like many here, hate arty.  The current game mechanics are, I am sorry, poor game design. 

 

I have often thought of arty as the ultimate mmo rogue.  None of the downside (staying stealthed while moving into position for a huge stun/backstab and hope you get away with it), with all the upside: you get to gankity gank gank gank and stun while you have a high chance of reducing a tank's effectiveness with your HE module damage.   Not bad since you can eat a sandwich in  one-hand and scroll across the map, mouse click and as I said gank other players. 

 

I know arty has RNG trouble and it sucks when a light rolls in and lights you up  in the first few minutes of a battle.  Arty calls the rest of us noobs when this happens, so yeah, I get it, you don't like it.  But sit back and enjoy your sandwich and know most of us hate you more.  And most likely, even though you are a teammate, we kinda enjoy your tears.

 

Now, before I make my point--I have only played for a couple of months, so I am kinda new and inexperienced.  My first 1000 battles were brutal, but I think I can finally say things are looking up (and so is my wn8).  However, maybe there is something I am missing regarding spotting (beyond blowing up the tank but not killing the radio man or destroying the radio--lame, so so lame).  If there is a RATIONAL explanation for what I percieve to be an issue with spotting, I would love to read your RATIONAL response (something beyond: "get gud", ltp you tomato noob nub pos stfu...).

 

So, arty spotting is broken.  Arty should require a Line of Sight spotter, this nonsense getting hit 100 meters as you move behind a house after you have killed their spotter is complete, well, nonsense.  If the spotter moves behind a building or mountain and no longer has los then he may know the general area I am in, but cannot accurately place me such that--blamo arty nails my [edited].  Ex:  three arty remained in a battle.  Me in my Caffee and an 85M are closing on them.  I come over a hill and find an arty.  Light him up and move on.  I roll around a hill (say about 4 seconds later, maybe 100 meters) and the two other arty are spotted by the 85M.  There is a hill between the remaining arty and myself.  I am hit, while on the move, by both arty nearly simultaneously.  Destroyed.  I realize that at times there can be an invisible tank spotting, but in this case only the two arty remained and  they had no line of sight.   A situation like this occurs for me in every, I would estimate, three maybe four battles.  Again, I know there can be another spotter I am unaware of, but the ability of arty to hit me on the move without a line of sight spotter is beyond the pale of even remote realism.  Arty is area effect damage.  Its not pin-point accuracy.  Perhaps with satellites and current technology we can achieve such highly accurate shots, but in the WWII and into the 60s this sort of accuracy was a pipe dream.  A one in a million shot, not a 1 in 4 shot.

In summation:  Arty should require a LINE OF SIGHT SPOTTER.

Two things before I close.

This seems like an enormous nerf to arty.  I get that.  But arty in its current state is poorly designed (in my opinion).  Moving a pointer across a map is lame.  What if arty had atmospheric information and in the 15-20 seconds between firing you had to make calculations (nothing intensive, but something realistic, us math nerds would love that!).  Or maybe arty actually represents several arty and thus causes more of a barrage effect and an increase in stun/damage.  Whatever.  My suggestions are unimportant.  But a conversation and brainstorming are important, because arty just doesn't seem like much fun for anyone (I do play arty a little, and its ok).

Lastly, I admit, honestly I may be misunderstanding spotting in some way.  If I am, I would appreciate some schooling (respectfully please).

 



BANG_UR_DEAD_1 #2 Posted Sep 21 2017 - 23:48

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Arty is the grimreaper of natural selection. the dumb die first.

Bull_Dozer_42 #3 Posted Sep 21 2017 - 23:50

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View PostBANG_UR_DEAD_1, on Sep 21 2017 - 23:48, said:

Arty is the grimreaper of natural selection. the dumb die first.

 

Did you even read the post???????  It posted about 5 seconds ago.

Komitadjie #4 Posted Sep 21 2017 - 23:54

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I don't see it as any different than any of the other weird vision mechanics. You get the same spotting drop time from arty view as you do from all other modes.  There's a ton of vision issues in the game, that's not one I'd put near the top of the list.

riff_ #5 Posted Sep 21 2017 - 23:55

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In summation:  Arty should require a LINE OF SIGHT SPOTTER.

Then would it not be a TD.



Komitadjie #6 Posted Sep 21 2017 - 23:57

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I think he wants tanks to disappear from the arty sighting view faster than they do from everyone else's. I think.  Not entirely sure, but that's what I gathered, anyway.

Edited by Komitadjie, Sep 21 2017 - 23:57.


Jaspo #7 Posted Sep 22 2017 - 00:02

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View PostBANG_UR_DEAD_1, on Sep 21 2017 - 16:48, said:

Arty is the grimreaper of natural selection. the dumb die first.

 

Actually, the opposite is true and that's one of artillery's main problems...it can easily target players who are good enough to not be targeted by anything else, while still contributing...thus making their skill irrelevant. This is made worse by arty that is deliberately XVM sniping the better players on the enemy team. And, there's really not a lot of options for remaining arty safe WHILE still contributing to the battle. Thus the common argument; arty causes camping.

Block Quote

 

However, maybe there is something I am missing regarding spotting (beyond blowing up the tank but not killing the radio man or destroying the radio--lame, so so lame).  If there is a RATIONAL explanation for what I percieve to be an issue with spotting, I would love to read your RATIONAL response

 Its simply a matter of crew skill and perks, and equipment. Someone with camo, camo perks, camo net, 125%ish crew, and binos and/or optics, particularly in lower tiers, has a HUGE spotting advantage over pretty much everyone else in the battle...and some players get a kick out of getting a tank crewed and set up this way and then clubbing seals with it in say, tier 6...

 


Edited by Jaspo, Sep 22 2017 - 00:08.


Xeraux #8 Posted Sep 22 2017 - 00:03

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Oh my god, the funniest arty post ever.

Visiro #9 Posted Sep 22 2017 - 00:06

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ok well artillery doesn't require line of sight in real life so why on earth should it in game? it depends on others just like in real life and spotted tanks disapear fast AF most of the time. as riff_ said it would no longer be arty if it required line of sight it would be more like a paper thin td with terrible aim time terrible accuracy terrible reload time and garbage damage

Bull_Dozer_42 #10 Posted Sep 22 2017 - 00:10

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View PostKomitadjie, on Sep 21 2017 - 23:57, said:

I think he wants tanks to disappear from the arty sighting view faster than they do from everyone else's. I think.  Not entirely sure, but that's what I gathered, anyway.

 

No.  No other unit in the game can hit you without line of sight.  There are tanks that fall out of view range that we can still hit, but you still need a straight line to target.  Arty does not need "unobstructed view."  In fact it does not need to have a view at all; it relies upon other tanks.  If those tanks do not have line of sight (whether dead or behind and obstacle) then arty should not have a shot.  Ok, so yes, in a way, now that I worked through it, if an enemy tank has no line of sight view of you, then you should drop off arty's map immediately.

Bull_Dozer_42 #11 Posted Sep 22 2017 - 00:14

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View PostXeraux, on Sep 22 2017 - 00:03, said:

Oh my god, the funniest arty post ever.

 

I shall assume this is due to my incredible wit and not because what I have said is completely stupid.  Please don't tell me otherwise.  Your comment won't get through my tinfoil hat anyways.

Viper69 #12 Posted Sep 22 2017 - 00:19

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View PostBull_Dozer_42, on Sep 21 2017 - 17:50, said:

 

Did you even read the post???????  It posted about 5 seconds ago.

 

of course he didn't. Some people see arty and get triggered out of their safe spaces.

kishan99 #13 Posted Sep 22 2017 - 00:24

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Make them do 0 damage and a maximum stun of 5 seconds... Boom, everybody happy. 

Beorn_of_the_NorthernSea #14 Posted Sep 22 2017 - 00:31

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I see what you are doing here, but, alas, this is not real life.  It is a video game.  And as such, line-of-sight rules in the game are based on algorithms and coding rather than real life.  Nearly everyone on these forums, provided they are not legally blind, should be able to spot a tank at more than 445m distant when it is moving.  And yet, the way the mechanics work, that isn't always the case.  Also, if you require line of sight, then you will have to get rid of all the mechanics for the perk Designated Target.  After all, how could something be lit for 2 more seconds?  That isn't reality?

 

Yeah.  This is a game, and the mechanics of this game are what they are.

 

~B



Bull_Dozer_42 #15 Posted Sep 22 2017 - 00:49

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View PostBeornotns, on Sep 22 2017 - 00:31, said:

I see what you are doing here, but, alas, this is not real life.  It is a video game.  And as such, line-of-sight rules in the game are based on algorithms and coding rather than real life.  Nearly everyone on these forums, provided they are not legally blind, should be able to spot a tank at more than 445m distant when it is moving.  And yet, the way the mechanics work, that isn't always the case.  Also, if you require line of sight, then you will have to get rid of all the mechanics for the perk Designated Target.  After all, how could something be lit for 2 more seconds?  That isn't reality?

 

Yeah.  This is a game, and the mechanics of this game are what they are.

 

~B

 

Ever player Advanced Squad Leader?  An amazing, ridiculously complicated (and greatest) board game ever created.  Dates back to the 70's, but is still being updated by Multiman Publishing.   There are groups in every city in the US/UK that still play.   Its a game that sets out to model reality as much as possible.  Much like WoT claimed it did years ago.  Of course Squad Leader fell short.  Its a game.  In the case of WoT, arty isn't really working, and it causes more annoyance than enjoyment (my opinion).  So, why not make a better model of reality to start?  Or at least make a better game.  So far WG has done neither.

 



Omega_Weapon #16 Posted Sep 22 2017 - 00:53

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View PostBull_Dozer_42, on Sep 21 2017 - 17:44, said:

I realize that at times there can be an invisible tank spotting, but in this case only the two arty remained and  they had no line of sight.   A situation like this occurs for me in every, I would estimate, three maybe four battles.  Again, I know there can be another spotter I am unaware of, but the ability of arty to hit me on the move without a line of sight spotter is beyond the pale of even remote realism.  Arty is area effect damage.  Its not pin-point accuracy.

 

​Its called making a good guess. Same as a tank blind firing at a bush to nail the scout they suspect is hiding there. And if the arty hit you on a guess, you were most likely being predictable even when you got out of their line of sight. Remember, arty shells travel very slowly so they actually fire at you based on where they think you will be in 4 or 5 seconds anyways.

Omega_Weapon #17 Posted Sep 22 2017 - 00:55

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View PostBull_Dozer_42, on Sep 21 2017 - 18:10, said:

 

No.  No other unit in the game can hit you without line of sight.  There are tanks that fall out of view range that we can still hit, but you still need a straight line to target.

 

Low velocity derp guns say hi. :arta:

Arteei #18 Posted Sep 22 2017 - 01:17

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View PostJaspo, on Sep 21 2017 - 23:02, said:

 

Actually, the opposite is true and that's one of artillery's main problems...it can easily target players who are good enough to not be targeted by anything else, while still contributing...thus making their skill irrelevant. This is made worse by arty that is deliberately XVM sniping the better players on the enemy team. And, there's really not a lot of options for remaining arty safe WHILE still contributing to the battle. Thus the common argument; arty causes camping.

 Its simply a matter of crew skill and perks, and equipment. Someone with camo, camo perks, camo net, 125%ish crew, and binos and/or optics, particularly in lower tiers, has a HUGE spotting advantage over pretty much everyone else in the battle...and some players get a kick out of getting a tank crewed and set up this way and then clubbing seals with it in say, tier 6...

 

 

let me ease your mind on the XVM sniping, they hit me nearly every game, and my stats are horrible 

 

 

it wouldn't fix spgs but it would make me happier if they were half as fast as the slowest tank in the game and had around 5 hitpoints 



bf109master #19 Posted Sep 22 2017 - 01:47

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they need to give us more power again I think its stupid It takes 4 hits of my M53 to kill a tiger

 



StiffWind #20 Posted Sep 22 2017 - 02:22

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View Postbf109master, on Sep 22 2017 - 01:47, said:

they need to give us more power again I think its stupid It takes 4 hits of my M53 to kill a tiger

 

 

In reality you'd never hit it in the first place.

 






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