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Please post your concerns about SPG/Artillery here (Seriously)

SPG Artillery Scumbags ignore complaining trolls

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n4cer67 #21 Posted Sep 25 2017 - 06:32

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View PostTheBaldguy, on Sep 23 2017 - 14:15, said:

 

When I get hit by arty I generally blame myself. However, the one time I do complain (in my head) about getting artied is the lef hitting me repeatedly over a matter of seconds. IMO that thing fires way too fast for arty.

 

 

Lets be honest, it isn't just arty that does this. I've actually seen more non-arty than arty do it, and I've seen them say they are doing it. In the last two weeks I've seen it most commonly in KV1 and KV4 players. The map opens and it is "*** this team/map" followed by them driving straight into the water and drowning in the first minute of the game. So it is far from anything near exclusive to arty. I've also been in many a game where the dead non-arty players are literally begging or demanding that the remaining player(s) to kill themselves so they can get to the next game, and usually it is arty they are begging. What I have seen more often by arty than drowning is going up to a building and firing to shoot oneself. I didn't even know that was thing until I saw non-arty players requesting it. Personally I refuse to give up and will fight till the last hit point regardless of what I am in or how many reds are bearing down on me. That said, the non-arty who drown themselves at the beginning are more of a cancer on the game than the arty who drowns himself at the end.

 

And to be honest we would also have to bring up the non-arty unsportsmanlike players who push others into enemy fire, shoot them because "you're in MY SPOT", "you bumped into me, RAWR time to die!", "you're arty it is ok to shoot you", "camper!", and so on. They vastly outnumber suicidal artillery. Saying arty is, as a class, almost exclusively unsportsmanlike is not accurate in the least. I see far more trolls in mediums than any other class - mostly because they have more in-game capability to do so and to do it without triggering the blue paintball. Secondarily I see lights and heavies about evenly being unsportsmanlike. Lights tend to permatrack you or get in your face, heavies push you off cliffs or into the open. Indeed, this type of behavior is common enough it gets its own section on Claus's channel. It is rarely, if ever, an arty doing this kind of stuff. A test I think it disingenuous to say arty is a troll class because some of them drown themselves, when this other behavior happens far more often and has far more deleterious effects on gameplay than the occasional end-the-game-by-drowning arty.

 

 

 

Well said buddy,

n4cer67 #22 Posted Sep 25 2017 - 06:39

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View PostJaspo, on Sep 23 2017 - 11:39, said:

 (this from another thread, and is simply my restatement of the gist of what the majority of unicums have been pointing out for a long time now)

 

Additionally,

-God view aim and even worse trajectory aim is incredibly OP and also rather boring to play. Also, this aiming requires very little skill, which is largely what makes it boring.-Indirect fire is inherently unfair when compared to the mechanics of the rest of the game, which the other 4 classes must play by.

-Stop trotting out the one armed amputee argument in favor of artillery, fringe cases do NOT dictate the needs of the majority, particularly in a statted competitive multiplayer game. It would be one thing if you were providing a bot stomping single player experience for said amputee to enjoy, its quite another when you're giving the handicapped person a huge handicap in competitive play.

-This leads to an observation: many artillery players somehow fail to realize what its like on the receiving end (particularly when being focused by multiple, or in the latest update, even just a single, fast firing, arty), or are somewhat sadistically inclined and thus and don't care. Aka, trolls. Don't feed trolls. Bad game design decision, to deliberately feed trolls.

-Arty players like to drown themselves, this is unsportsmanlike, and for some reason almost exclusive to arty (perhaps because they tend to be trolls?)

 

No such thing as God mode, The SPG only sees the enemy that is spotted by teammates.
Many players enjoy SPG's, not only the handicapped.
Who cares what's it like to be on the receiving end of Spg's, no different than being on the receiving end of anything else.
Spg players aren't the only unsportsmanlike players, i've seen more unsportsmanlike conduct from non Spg players. The only trolls are the ones constantly bashing and whining about the Spgs.



n4cer67 #23 Posted Sep 25 2017 - 06:40

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View PostNonamanadus, on Sep 23 2017 - 11:30, said:

Arty = drone strikes.....

 

Spectator Interruptus....

 

Don't want Spg's shooting you then take out the spotters. Spg's are no where as accurate as drones.

zarg12 #24 Posted Sep 25 2017 - 07:38

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My problems with artillery:
  1. Fires over obstacles
  2. Fires from base
  3. No way to counter it
  4. No way to know you are targeted
  5. Ignores every game mechanics that aren't clicking your mouse
  6. low skill, low effort, low risk, maximum reward
  7. Scumbag allied arty shooting you when brawling then blames you for it because they can't control their gun like a prepubescent teen learning masturbation
  8. XVM snipers
  9. Stunning
  10. Prevents active play
  11. Promotes camping
  12. Deters from leaving hard cover
  13. Does not require direct line of sight
  14. Does not have to move all game




Need more?



NotEnuffDakka #25 Posted Sep 25 2017 - 12:12

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View Postnuclearguy931, on Sep 23 2017 - 17:22, said:

Why do we still have the 'Intuition' perk for arty loaders?

 

This perk should be removed and the skills/perks reset for the loaders.

 

Rather than have it removed, I'd prefer it if this perk worked 100% of the time, rather than just a small chance of it happening.



dino1dude #26 Posted Sep 25 2017 - 18:31

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View PostTheBaldguy, on Sep 23 2017 - 19:36, said:

Well people who play the class have complaints, and some of those are actually inline with non-players' complaints.

 

Lets talk stunning and splash

The idea behind it was solid, but the implementation is severely lacking. The idea was to move arty more towards being a true force multiplier rather than an individual force. This idea is supportable. However the implementation has a few problems:

 

It encourages focusing a specific group or light tanks.

Here it has two effects that seem to be at odds, but make sense. Artillery has two ways to make credits and experience: damage and supporting damage (technically spotting damage too, but, yeah ... heheh like that happens if you aren't running Bert). Since an arty today isn't going to do much damage to anything other than a light or an open top TD, they have a new bias toward those tanks because they can do actual damage and/or get kills. This is countered in scouts by being mobile and in TDs by trying to remain invisible. On the other hand you have stunning damage.

 

It Discourages Other Support Options

To get experience or credits from stunning someone else has to shoot the tank after you stun it. This encourages looking for groups which are already being hit by allies and avoiding ones that are not. Is there a group of TDs camping a corridor but not being shot? The new mechanics disincentives hitting those TDs and especially so for watching for tracers from that spot -- countering "invisible tanks" picking your team apart. You will stun if close enough, and maybe get a hundred points of damage on a hit unless you are top tier and they are open top and bottom tier when you might get a kill. This combination leads directly to people "getting focused" by arty.

 

The other side-effect of this is that due to low damage you will more often simply do nothing or track them. Get two parties coordinating and you can generally keep someone tracked, even though you are doing minimal damage at best. That leads to extreme frustration on the part of the red player. Two or more parties coordinating rare frankly, they only seem to be coordinating or "focusing you" because they don't have anywhere else to shoot.

 

The result is that both sides find the exchange more undesirable. There are better ways to gain the desired effect than the way it is done now. Not sure if you're wanting alternatives here or just complaints so I'll hold off on those suggestions.

 

Top Down View

Next up lets look at top down view. First, lets dismiss any complaints about realism. As someone who has literally been shelled by artillery in an actual battle I'll tell you that stunning is as real as it gets. If anything it is far more powerful in real life than in game. Anyway, lets look at the valid complaint here: if you are in artillery view you can see environment destruction nobody else can. I agree with this aspect of the complaint. It doesn't make sense that in the first minute of the game I can see you running over trees and buildings on the other side. This, however, can be addressed specifically without removing the view. Since this suggestion is small I'll go ahead and make it: have it reflect visibility from tanks. If a tank has a tree in its view range and the tree falls, the arty can see it in their view, and only if this is true. This simulates it being relayed by the spotting tank. Right, now on to the next one. It does produce a problem in that counter battery is much more difficult, but there could be an exception for that.

 

Limited Firing Options

This complaint isn't limited to arty but is still a major factor in the other complaints. With small maps and limited shot opportunities, you have a pretty good idea where to aim because the map essentially forces players into that area. This in part leads to the perception of being focused. The main cause of this is small map size, corridors, and firing arc combined with low camo and speed for many arty. There are few positions the arty can have a chance at contributing to the win from, which further reduces where they can shoot, leading to a feeling of being focused by arty. This is actually made worse when there are 2-3 arties because often if nobody else is hitting them the arties split what little damage they do via the stunning mechanic. So it produced even more incentive to "focus" a group.

 

This is amplified by the corridors because it produces the same situation on both sides. The group that you target for splash is only effective if you have a group shooting at the, which means the arty on the other side is targeting your group.

 

Hang Time

Since the "physics" of the game don't reflect any semblance of reality for pretty much most of the tanks and all classes, lets ignore the general "gravity is BS"  complaint as it isn't valid within the game context. However, the long hang time has some specific consequences, some of which lead to other complaints. Most tanks can shoot and within .1-1.5 seconds the round is where it is going to go. So you do have to lead your target if they are moving - and how much is dependent on their speed and your range. Most don't have a problem with that. However, for arty you can be looking at six seconds of hang time, and a lot can happen in that hang time. Most of the friendly fire incidents I've seen have been because someone ran into the area after the shot was sent downrange. Because most people don't understand that arty marked an area, fired, then drove into it they rant about arty killing them. The recent change to a more obvious marker for allies is a good step in this direction, but people still ignore it and face hug after the shot was sent. There is not much that can be done about this mechanically save perhaps a penalty if the arty marked, fired, and then you went in. 

 

It also produced complaints by fast tanks "how did he hit me at 60kph? Impossible!" Nope, it is totally possible. It is possible in all tanks, though harder for arty because they have to anticipate 5-6 seconds rather than .5 to 1.5. I get hit at speed by arty and my first thought is "[edited]; running predictable like that got you killed". Then again, being unpredictable in your movements is a thing learned in armor training (we called it "the Sagger samba" after the soviet Sagger AT guided rocket"). Frankly, as harsh as it sounds, if you are running at 60kph and get hit by arty, either they happen to be good at predicting you based on terrain options or you are very predictable. Or they got lucky and/or you were unlucky. This is especially with the stunning mechanic biasing in favor of shooting at groups of high health targets being hit by others. You have to be a choice and easy target to justify shifting away from stunning damage on a group of heavies.

 

Combining high hang time with long aim time and long reload means an artillery player has to make every shot count as much as possible. This is exacerbated by the reward mechanic. This combination compounds the problem of limited firing opportunities and relying on stun assist damage (or track damage for lower caliber guns). I can see how WG might think it boosts team play, but everyone being essentially forced to shoot the same targets isn't teamwork. Nor is it much fun for either side.

 

You could argue that the hang time for long range is a counterweight. But it really isn't. When the reds are sitting in one spot and playing peekaboo all it does is mean that is who you repeatedly shoot at. Which brings us to the next complaint.

 

I Can't Shoot You Back

First, invisible tanks are annoying and it really doesn't matter why they are invisible. So from that perspective it isn't limited to arty, just the phrase "invisible tanks" which covers TDs, lights, and mediums with good camo. Frankly in game I hear that whine far more often than arty complaints. Some of this complaint about arty though is that they can sit back and rain down fire and vengeance at range (which many TDs can do, but let us ignore that for a moment). One option is to reduce the range and increase the arc - as is done for the Bishop and Bert SPGs. The downside to that, however, is that once seen an arty melts in seconds, and most maps don't have a lot of opportunity for the bishop, for example, to get into a decent support spot. It also requires shorter Time-To-Next-Shot. The other influence on this is the forced focus fire due to the map and other factors above. But breaking through a front brings us to the next complaint.

 

I Get Shotgunned By Arty

Well, my first thought is "tough". Frankly in the real world you get in front of a big bore barrel in a lightly armored tank at close range, you're going to get annihilated even with splash. This as an actual tactic employed in WWII. That said, the complaints here are about a lucky shot as well. It requires the arty to have a shell ready to go, being pointing at you and landing that hit via the arc. He gets, generally, one shot. The two arty I have played where this isn't the case are the Bishop and Bert. The Bishop has the armor/hp to generally take 2-3 shots from a light or on-tier medium, whereas the Bert has mobility. They both have short reloads. I don't really view this complaint as valid; it is really more accurately "I want a free kill". Sure, you can say the arty had the ability to shot you at range, but clearly he didn't have the opportunity, luck, or skill needed to do so. Plus you can say the same thing about most TDs.

 

Fundamentally I think most valid complaints about arty that are specific to arty boil down to "the maps suck". Which is something I think every class can complain about.

 

 

^this guy knows whats up.

as an avid artillery player (who doesn't kill myself at the end of the round) what the bald guy said really sums it up. as an artillery player i would be more than happy to get more confrontational, to have higher arc and more speed to manoeuvre with. Artillery in general are pretty forced into their roles, especially on city maps. but adding this will allow us to be more dynamic, consistent, and give opportunity to the enemy team. 

 

My personal complaint is the removal of AP shells. while i agree that they were bs at long ranges (im talking about 2k dmg hits from 600m....) it was really artilleries only way of self defence, and because of that we would stay and fight. we used to have a chance but now its just more profitable for most players to drown them selves at the end of the battle to save on repair costs.

 

give us higher arcs, less dmg, and the ability to fire AP along a lower trajectory. (maybe arty that can actually brawl will be a thing, think kv-2 but with artillery capabilities at range, and only AP at close quarters)



UnDeadDemon956 #27 Posted Sep 25 2017 - 19:13

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Remove arty and then all the issues about the game magically disappear.

strenfoo #28 Posted Sep 25 2017 - 20:18

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Every complaint against arty can be summed up as follows: battles without arty are more fun.



TheBaldguy #29 Posted Sep 26 2017 - 06:18

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View Postzarg12, on Sep 25 2017 - 00:38, said:

My problems with artillery:
  1. Fires over obstacles
  2. Fires from base
  3. No way to counter it
  4. No way to know you are targeted
  5. Ignores every game mechanics that aren't clicking your mouse
  6. low skill, low effort, low risk, maximum reward
  7. Scumbag allied arty shooting you when brawling then blames you for it because they can't control their gun like a prepubescent teen learning masturbation
  8. XVM snipers
  9. Stunning
  10. Prevents active play
  11. Promotes camping
  12. Deters from leaving hard cover
  13. Does not require direct line of sight
  14. Does not have to move all game




Need more?

 

1. Yup. I have the same complaint about derps topping over a ridge line.

2. So do camping mediums, heavies, and TDs.

3. False

4. Are you spotted? You might be targeted. This is no different than any other tank, especially that invisible one over in the bushes just outside of your view range relying on the light, medium, or heavy to provide spotting for him or her.

5. False.

6. "maximum reward" ahahahahahah

7. Scumbag allied LT/MT/TD/HT shooting you when brawling then blames you for it because they can't control their gun like a prepubescent teen learning masturbation. Again, not unique to SPG

8. Also not unique to SPG. I've had many a game where some XMVer calls out "kill XXX he is purple".

9. I can somewhat agree with you. But then again, I can say "Premium rounds" in its place.

10. Arguable. I've seen more "yay no arty" followed by them running into an open field and dying because, well stupid is as stupid does.

11. Arguable. I've seen more "yay no arty" followed by them running into an open field and dying because, well stupid is as stupid does.

12. So does that invisible TD or sniping Russian medium. So, again, not unique to arty.

13. Repeat.

14. Neither does a camping TD, MT, HT, or LT. I've even said in chat "If you're behind the Bishop, you are camping." ... because they were behind me.

 

If you really believe that all arty players, or even most, are mere moronic campers, and that most campers are in SPGs, then you should support arty being in the game. Why? Because that would limit the campers to no more than three per side. But that isn't how it happens, is it? As with many things, what you perceive is biased by what will support your worldview. When you've got 3-6 mediums, lights, and heavies camping back at or next to base, the fact that arty "doesn't have to move from base" becomes rather irrelevant, doesn't it? But rather than [edited]about the class, what do people say? We call them out for what they are doing: camping.

 

Hell, often a legitimate sniper TDs is  "called out" as camping. And sometimes people (arseholes) take it on themselves to "teach them a lesson" (that aforementioned trolling douchebaggery that has nothing to do with tanks). Sure, it may help one feel superior by thinking all arty players are stupid morons who would quit the game if arty went away, but reality says otherwise. That useless, pathetic campers exist in all classes (though TDs are arguable. Many should be camping to be useful.) is proof this worldview is false.

 

Try this: for the next hundred games, try to keep track of the number of arty on your team versus the number of non-arty campers. Then come back and tell us again how this is a complaint about arty specifically or exclusively.

 

 

 



NotEnuffDakka #30 Posted Sep 26 2017 - 11:55

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View PostTheBaldguy, on Sep 26 2017 - 06:18, said:

Hell, often a legitimate sniper TDs is  "called out" as camping. And sometimes people (arseholes) take it on themselves to "teach them a lesson" (that aforementioned trolling douchebaggery that has nothing to do with tanks). Sure, it may help one feel superior by thinking all arty players are stupid morons who would quit the game if arty went away, but reality says otherwise. That useless, pathetic campers exist in all classes (though TDs are arguable. Many should be camping to be useful.) is proof this worldview is false.

 

This also happens with support heavies. They think just because you have two stripes on your diamond you're supposed to charge out in the open and eat shells all day.

 

Your entire post is perfect.



Shortcult #31 Posted Sep 27 2017 - 04:10

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Without choosing a side, here are the problems I see with arty as implemented in WoT.

 

Wargaming advertises WoT as a competitive game.  The ability to shoot someone while not being able to be shot back at is not competitive.  Oh but teams!!!  Randoms are not a team.  Are the people that suggest that both teams have it so it is ok trying to really say arty should only exist in organized battles?

 

Arty does in fact play by a different set of rules.  In a medium tank I cannot snap shot the most likely spot for an enemy tank right at the beginning of a match.  I have many many kills from my first shot in a match just shooting a likely scout bush or a likely arty spot, admittedly fewer since 9.18.  I don't play TD's well enough to 'know' the good hiding spots and fire an early shot there.  As an aside, anyone remember way back in the day when it was hazardous leaving the spawn?  Sadly the stats are not available, but I would be willing to bet I hit an enemy tank leaving spawn once every 50 games.  More frequently than some claim arty one shots tanks.  I know I have also hit vehicles after I saw destruction on the map (fence, tree etc) by throwing a snapshot out in front of them.  Again, hardly competitive.

 

Raise your hand if you have never snapped a shot back up the bearing a hidden TD just hit you from and damaged or killed them.  Those who raised their hands, stick to arty.  Vehicles not in view still have to take a risk when opening fire.  Arty on the red line behind bushes does not worry about that.  But, but  CB!!!  I am again willing to bet that less than 3% of arty players attempt to CB by watching for tracers.  Dropping shots on a spotted enemy arty does not count (why are arty so rabid to kill each other anyway?).  I definitely used to enjoy CB, then they made it harder.  So I still enjoyed it, just wasn't as effective at it.  Then, oh, stun mechanic, can't kill them anyway..  Why CB again?

 

But, but...no view range or health.  Arty is sitting on the red line, it needs those for...what?  If players are advocating for the removal of top down view and the silly little box that accompanies it on the mini map and making arty more direct fire, then yes, health and vision need buffing.  But what about when a scout gets through, arty needs armor and vision to protect itself.  Why are an arty players team mates allowing those scouts to get through?  Both sides shout 'Vocal minoriity!' at the other, but what we see in game is the real measure.

 

Restriction on number allowed per match.  Why does that even exist?  I was here when it didn't exist.  It was most certainly not better in those days.  Arty is the only class that has such a restriction, why?  I would suggest that any class that requires a restriction in number allowed per match is in fact unbalanced and needs removal or repair.  My vote is still repair, but it will only be repaired when the match restriction is gone.

 

But, but...we need arty to dig out hull down tanks!  It's 2017, code 22 takes care of damned near every tank in the game.  Not carrying premium ammo is as bad as not bringing forward trained crews to higher tiers or free xp'ing modules.  Your a burden to your team if your not making an effort to make/keep each tank tip top.  But, I playz for free.  So do I currently and have 10,000,000 creds, there is a difference between irresponsible and lazy.  Figure it out and don't be both.

 

Rereading this, yep once again, looks like I'm in the haters camp.  I still don't say remove arty.  People are no doubt sick of seeing the suggestion I support and my reasoning behind it.  If anyone could give me a reasonable, logical, verifiable reason that that suggestion would not work, I would love to hear it.  I do think a split mode solves the most problems and provides the best chance to lure players back.



TheBaldguy #32 Posted Sep 27 2017 - 05:56

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View PostShortcult, on Sep 26 2017 - 21:10, said:

Raise your hand if you have never snapped a shot back up the bearing a hidden TD just hit you from and damaged or killed them.  Those who raised their hands, stick to arty.  Vehicles not in view still have to take a risk when opening fire.  Arty on the red line behind bushes does not worry about that.  But, but  CB!!!  I am again willing to bet that less than 3% of arty players attempt to CB by watching for tracers.  Dropping shots on a spotted enemy arty does not count (why are arty so rabid to kill each other anyway?).  I definitely used to enjoy CB, then they made it harder.  So I still enjoyed it, just wasn't as effective at it.  Then, oh, stun mechanic, can't kill them anyway..  Why CB again?

 

Ah yes, CB. It did used to be more fun before the +stunning/-dmg change. I agree it is far less useful now. I try for CB, and play TD "enough" to have an idea where they are. As to why SPGs are so anti-SPG? Probably to make their teammates shut up about arty. I admit I rabidly will go after an arty clearly running for the deep end and even take a sh to if they make it. Mostly because despite it being more common in my experience for the other classes, it is now a stereotype for arty. But also because, for me, I've found that if I can take out the other arty, the red team often decides to camp, followed by them losing. Not sure why that happens, but damn it works quite often. Fundamentally I prefer to take out fellow SPGs when I can because I truly understand the force multiplier they can be and don't want the other side having it. I don't believe in a "fair fight" in combat. I probably wouldn't be alive today if I did. :bush:

 

But frankly, CB would be better if people would choose to use their time and typing to give an indication of where that arty shot they ate came from rather than whining. Regardless of what I play it is common to see people whine after getting killed about being focused by arty - even if it wasn't arty that killed them. By then, of course, it is too late.

 

Block Quote

Restriction on number allowed per match.  Why does that even exist?  I was here when it didn't exist.  It was most certainly not better in those days.  Arty is the only class that has such a restriction, why?  I would suggest that any class that requires a restriction in number allowed per match is in fact unbalanced and needs removal or repair.  My vote is still repair, but it will only be repaired when the match restriction is gone.

 

I'd be in favor of a restriction on TD count. Indeed, I would be in favor of a cap on all classes. "Oh look, 8 TDs per side, three arty, and four heavies." is broken. Chat becomes nothing but a stream of "stop camping fckrs" - by someone in a heavy going nowhere, or who ran into the open and got shellacked. "oh look, they've for 7 mediums, 5 lights, one arty, and two TDs. YOLO Rush incoming. We have five classes. Cap any given class at, say, 5. That said I'm getting fairly decent at anticipating what kind of play the other side will likely do depending n breakout and map, so such a cap could mess with my (still developing) ability to prepare. As to why only arty has one, I suspect that having, say, 4-6 arty actually hamper your team rather than help it enough to offset the lack of mobility, vision, HP, and armor it causes compared to the other side having only 2-3. Though the change from damage-on-high to stunning would demand a cap to avoid true "always stunned" situations in the crappy "nowhere else to go" maps WG provides.

 

Give us much bigger maps. Give us maps with many places to go, where we aren't deciding between corridors A and B, and the Darwin zone. I first played on a PS4 and we had a large map (don't recall its name atm). At the time I hated it in my heavies because it was steep and large, and they were slow. I came over to PC version and fund everything flat by comparison, and tiny. I actually miss that map now. Never thought I'd write that. But I do, and I did.

 

 

 

 



Shortcult #33 Posted Sep 27 2017 - 06:24

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View PostTheBaldguy, on Sep 26 2017 - 20:56, said:

 

Ah yes, CB. It did used to be more fun before the +stunning/-dmg change. I agree it is far less useful now. I try for CB, and play TD "enough" to have an idea where they are. As to why SPGs are so anti-SPG? Probably to make their teammates shut up about arty. I admit I rabidly will go after an arty clearly running for the deep end and even take a sh to if they make it. Mostly because despite it being more common in my experience for the other classes, it is now a stereotype for arty. But also because, for me, I've found that if I can take out the other arty, the red team often decides to camp, followed by them losing. Not sure why that happens, but damn it works quite often. Fundamentally I prefer to take out fellow SPGs when I can because I truly understand the force multiplier they can be and don't want the other side having it. I don't believe in a "fair fight" in combat. I probably wouldn't be alive today if I did. :bush:

 

But frankly, CB would be better if people would choose to use their time and typing to give an indication of where that arty shot they ate came from rather than whining. Regardless of what I play it is common to see people whine after getting killed about being focused by arty - even if it wasn't arty that killed them. By then, of course, it is too late.

 

 

I'd be in favor of a restriction on TD count. Indeed, I would be in favor of a cap on all classes. "Oh look, 8 TDs per side, three arty, and four heavies." is broken. Chat becomes nothing but a stream of "stop camping fckrs" - by someone in a heavy going nowhere, or who ran into the open and got shellacked. "oh look, they've for 7 mediums, 5 lights, one arty, and two TDs. YOLO Rush incoming. We have five classes. Cap any given class at, say, 5. That said I'm getting fairly decent at anticipating what kind of play the other side will likely do depending n breakout and map, so such a cap could mess with my (still developing) ability to prepare. As to why only arty has one, I suspect that having, say, 4-6 arty actually hamper your team rather than help it enough to offset the lack of mobility, vision, HP, and armor it causes compared to the other side having only 2-3. Though the change from damage-on-high to stunning would demand a cap to avoid true "always stunned" situations in the crappy "nowhere else to go" maps WG provides.

 

Give us much bigger maps. Give us maps with many places to go, where we aren't deciding between corridors A and B, and the Darwin zone. I first played on a PS4 and we had a large map (don't recall its name atm). At the time I hated it in my heavies because it was steep and large, and they were slow. I came over to PC version and fund everything flat by comparison, and tiny. I actually miss that map now. Never thought I'd write that. But I do, and I did.

 

 

 

 

 

At the start of every match I play arty in I type in 'give me a vector and I will CB'.  I could make up some stats to sound cool, but lets just say the amount of times I get any feed back is terribly small.

 

While I don't completely disagree with having a cap for each class, I see a lot of negatives.  Que times could get unwieldy.  There would be a lot more of 'this map has to be played this way', less variety.  I still hate seeing the lemming train going valley on Lakeville, but some team compositions can pull it off handily.

 

My point however was that having a restriction in place on one class is an admission there is something wrong with that class.  I was here when there was no restriction, games with five arty on each side seemed to be the norm.  I saw games with as many as nine arty per side.  I was in a que dump once with only 20 players, 19 in arty and me in an IS-8.  You think the camping is bad now?  You kids have it easy.  Back in my day, we camped the whole match with arty raining down all over my yard!  In the snow!  Both ways!

 

Cannot disagree with you at all about bigger maps, I so miss wolf packing in my mediums, that was WoT's high point.



NotEnuffDakka #34 Posted Sep 27 2017 - 14:45

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I also agree about not wanting fair fights. This is a PVP game and you want to take down your enemies as quickly and efficiently. They'd do the same to you in a heartbeat. Removing potential advantages and/or dangers is the basic form of securing victory in the long run.

 

Quote

But frankly, CB would be better if people would choose to use their time and typing to give an indication of where that arty shot they ate came from rather than whining. Regardless of what I play it is common to see people whine after getting killed about being focused by arty - even if it wasn't arty that killed them. By then, of course, it is too late.

 

I always send a message in pre-battle chat asking people to ping enemy SPG's approximate locations when they get clicked. Nobody does. I gave up trying to CB because I mostly play French arties, and I don't always kill an enemy arty in one shot. If the enemy survives, they'll wise up to CBing and try to do the same to me, all the while getting more defensive and moving after firing. This means I didn't remove their gun from the game and I made the match harder for myself. 


Edited by NotEnuffDakka, Sep 27 2017 - 14:47.


kuxan #35 Posted Sep 27 2017 - 15:32

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Here is my feeling about arty. Even though i dont play it much and i get annoyed and even enraged when i get focused by 1 or 2 of then and it happends quite a bit.

 

The splash damage is pitifull and needs to go back to pre latest nurf when hitting targets outside cover.

Leave the splash damage and mechanics when tanks behind hard cover as is now.

Increase alpha damage by 10% on all tier 9-10 arty.

 

Increase aimtimes for at least tier 8-10 arty by 1-1.5 second.    

 

 Reduce the arc of fire of the CGC 

( yes i understand CGC specializes in high arc. But its little bit over the top. It can literly shot over the top of alot of steep high mountains) and prabobly 1-2 other artys but i cant comment on all of them since i currently dont owne them.

 

Reduce # of arty per team in randoms from 3 to 2 per side.



TheBaldguy #36 Posted Sep 27 2017 - 19:39

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View PostNotEnuffDakka, on Sep 27 2017 - 07:45, said:

I always send a message in pre-battle chat asking people to ping enemy SPG's approximate locations when they get clicked. Nobody does. I gave up trying to CB because I mostly play French arties, and I don't always kill an enemy arty in one shot. If the enemy survives, they'll wise up to CBing and try to do the same to me, all the while getting more defensive and moving after firing. This means I didn't remove their gun from the game and I made the match harder for myself. 

 

I've been working on getting into the habit of telling people to let me know where from when I play arty and it does seem to make a difference sometimes. But in the latter case, I'd say the situation described was still a benefit to the team. Every CB shot at where I used to be is a shot not splashing green heavies. Every minute they spend watching for my tracer is a minute they don't spend targeting a green cluster. Every time they have to move, they risk getting spotted. You didn't take the gun out of the game entirely, but you did so effectively for a time at least and that can turn the tide.

 

But there does need to be something done, IMO, to make CB more "worth it" to the one doing it. My arty is British so I don't one-shot other arty anymore either. And with nobody else shooting it, the stun does nothing for you in terms of XP or credits. Finding a way to alter that might shift the priority some. Maybe arty shells have a higher chance to destroy antennae for example, or give us WP so we can light things (terrain, tanks) on fire more often. ;)

 



SanguTik #37 Posted Sep 28 2017 - 16:02

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View PostTheBaldguy, on Sep 27 2017 - 11:39, said:

 

I've been working on getting into the habit of telling people to let me know where from when I play arty and it does seem to make a difference sometimes. But in the latter case, I'd say the situation described was still a benefit to the team. Every CB shot at where I used to be is a shot not splashing green heavies. Every minute they spend watching for my tracer is a minute they don't spend targeting a green cluster. Every time they have to move, they risk getting spotted. You didn't take the gun out of the game entirely, but you did so effectively for a time at least and that can turn the tide.

 

But there does need to be something done, IMO, to make CB more "worth it" to the one doing it. My arty is British so I don't one-shot other arty anymore either. And with nobody else shooting it, the stun does nothing for you in terms of XP or credits. Finding a way to alter that might shift the priority some. Maybe arty shells have a higher chance to destroy antennae for example, or give us WP so we can light things (terrain, tanks) on fire more often. ;)

 

 

 

Enough said.



cnumartyr #38 Posted Sep 28 2017 - 17:21

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There are two great SPGs in the game.

 

FV4005 and FV215B 183.

 

They should be the prototypes for SPGs.  Direct Fire, high caliber howitzers.



NotEnuffDakka #39 Posted Sep 28 2017 - 18:34

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View PostSanguTik, on Sep 28 2017 - 16:02, said:

Enough said.

 

Not really. Do you mean to invalidate his opinion through his stats?



eagleninja #40 Posted Sep 29 2017 - 21:17

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Is is just me or does everyone get automatically tracked every time I am hit directly by sky cancer? Wargaming should have an option to opt out of games with SPGs. 





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