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Hate Arty? Read this, please.


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Sgt__Guffy #501 Posted Oct 12 2017 - 03:02

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View Postbat21zing, on Oct 11 2017 - 19:12, said:

I'll tell you something. AW did arty right. Some people continued to hate it anyways (the campers and those who didn't drive between cover) but it worked really well. No idea why they changed them into TDs.

 

If you want to fix arty lower the alpha and give it support shells. The alpha should max out at 1/5 the HP of a heavy tank and increase it's accuracy) The support shells in AW were smoke rounds and illumination rounds. They were both situationally useful. The smoke rounds were used to provide soft cover to advancing tanks and the illumination rounds were used to light up hidden tanks for a short amount of time. They added depth and power as a support class to SPGs. It was the best implementation of arty I've seen in any game I've played.

 

The SPG got spotting damage on illuminated targets and the smoke shells made attacking much easier for your team when used correctly. Keep in mind when Arty was shooting support rounds they had an effect but weren't directly damaging you. I even (gasp) enjoyed playing arty in AW. You could use your skill to read the battle and support the right spot to create a win. They were actually pretty darn good at it. The illumination rounds made for interesting counter battery battles as well. You could have one arty light up the target then have the others CB them. CB works so poorly in this game now. It really needs this!

 

These changes turn Arty into a more skill based and less RNG based game class. If they'd just knock off the old AW SPG system I'd never complain about arty again.

 

..and how is old AW doing these days? Caught a cold from what I read recently.

Sgt__Guffy #502 Posted Oct 12 2017 - 03:05

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View PostThe_Borg, on Oct 11 2017 - 19:26, said:

So what if I want to play with one hand in my pants and another clicking on people on a global map where I can observe the enemy by seeing destroyed environmental set pieces? Smh.

 

Explanation somebody, I don't have a clue what this is supposed to mean.

Aegis270 #503 Posted Oct 12 2017 - 03:49

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View PostBillT, on Oct 11 2017 - 21:29, said:

 

I just did my own assessment of the maps, giving them a 1-5 rating for "how many important areas can arty target effectively?" It's very subjective, obviously.  By "important areas" I mean the brightest spots on the heat maps.

 

I noticed that what I thought was a canonical list at http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Maps doesn't include Paris.  I excluded the three duplicate maps: WInterberg, Winter Himmelsdorf, and Fiery Salient, because I understand matchmaker considers them the same as the originals when it tries to equalize map rotation.  I ended up with 34 maps, so when you looked at 28 you missed quite a few.

 

I came up with:

    four at rank 1 (Paris, Himmelsdorf, Kharkov, and Ensk, no surprise) 

    eight at rank 2 (Fjords, Lakeville, Mines, Mtn Pass, Ruinberg ,Siegfried Line, Stalingrad, Widepark)

    ten at rank 3 (Abbey, Cliff, Karelia, Overlord, Swamp, Tundra, Arctic, Sacred Valley, Windstorm, El Halluf)

    eight at rank 4 (Fisherman's Bay, Highway, Live Oaks, Serene Coast, Westfield, Erlenberg, Airfield, Sand River)

    four at rank 5 (Murovanka, Prokhorovka, Redshire, Steppes, no surprise)

 

I was pleased by the symmetry, since I didn't have to tweak anything to make it come out so nicely.

 

I docked Mines a point because while arty can engage many key spots, it is ludicrously vulnerable, both to CB fire and direct fire.  Ensk is similar but I couldn't drop it below a 1.  Otherwise I tried to be optimistic.  For Live Oaks, e.g., I rated it highly because SPGs can always shoot at targets along the railroad tracks, and I overlooked the fact that most of them are lousy shots because of slopes.Siegfried Line got a two because occasionally arty gets a lot of shots in the field, though in many games nothing interesting happens there.  Redshire got a five because arty can always shoot at heavy tanks in the obvious zone, even though direct hits are hard to get because of the rocks and hills there. It's certainly no Prokhorovka. 

 

Do note that this rating assumes the arty will move to the right position to shoot (and those positions are often on opposite flanks,so relocating may cost you a lot of shots).  Earlier I think you said something about "arty can cover the map from spawn" (or maybe that was someone else).  My ratings would be much worse with that restriction.

 

You're being very pessimistic about artillery's options on a lot of those maps. On Lakeville, you can always slap around the tanks that go valley, or often get fire into the church area. Mines should definitely be higher because they have the capability of shutting down anyone that actually captures the hill, which is incredibly important for that map, CB or no CB. The entire eastern flank of Erlenberg is completely exposed, and much of the western flank if they aren't hiding behind the castle. Karelia has a lot of options on both flanks, as well as in assault games. On Sand River, you can hammer the HTs that have to go the the dry river bed location to have a hope of doing well. On Siegfried line and Ruinberg, there are positions you can take that allow you fire on to crucial positions in the towns. Similarly, Airfield can easily get shots onto the enemy brawling area to the north.

Shortcult #504 Posted Oct 12 2017 - 04:18

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View PostBillT, on Oct 09 2017 - 08:58, said:

 

From signature: FV 215b "Anduril, Flame of the West"

 

LOL.  Do you kill a lot of orcs with that tank, Legolas?  Do you like to pretend your tank crews are all hobbits?

 

Bill we see things differently at different times but I have always respected your opinions.  Legolas never wielded Anduril however.

 

Further, how many Hobbits could one fit into a ToG II?  Need to take some ground, that thing could drive up and unload a platoon to hold it.



Shortcult #505 Posted Oct 12 2017 - 04:31

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View PostBolo_MkXX_Tremendous_DMD, on Oct 10 2017 - 06:20, said:

you old parasites project too much.  No man of honor will ever agree with you about your arty and your right to ruin everything for everyone else and have us subsidize it.

 

Little one, you do amuse me.  You have this all encompassing love of the truth of the internet.  Don;t lose that, never let anyone tell you the internet is not full of truth.

 

We old fat men have lived a different life.  We require proof before our eyes.  We expect people to be responsible, even when we don't agree with them.  We don't search out one negligible post hidden somewhere on the interwebz to try to prove ourselves right.  We've seen, been and done. 

 

The ironic part is in 30 years none of us will be here to tell you 'I told you so' when your head finally starts to wrap around the idea of how the planet really runs.  Enjoy your youth, take your meds and listen to the doctors, if you possibly live to old age, it would be nice to be in full control of your facilities.  Not sure you are now.

 

C'mon, gimme some more of your Harkonnen propaganda, got your heart plug installed already?



Thornir #506 Posted Oct 12 2017 - 05:10

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View PostShortcult, on Oct 12 2017 - 04:31, said:

 

Little one, you do amuse me.  You have this all encompassing love of the truth of the internet.  Don;t lose that, never let anyone tell you the internet is not full of truth.

 

We old fat men have lived a different life.  We require proof before our eyes.  We expect people to be responsible, even when we don't agree with them.  We don't search out one negligible post hidden somewhere on the interwebz to try to prove ourselves right.  We've seen, been and done. 

 

The ironic part is in 30 years none of us will be here to tell you 'I told you so' when your head finally starts to wrap around the idea of how the planet really runs.  Enjoy your youth, take your meds and listen to the doctors, if you possibly live to old age, it would be nice to be in full control of your facilities.  Not sure you are now.

 

C'mon, gimme some more of your Harkonnen propaganda, got your heart plug installed already?

 

:popcorn:​  Get 'Im, short!!

Thornir #507 Posted Oct 12 2017 - 05:12

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View PostSgt__Guffy, on Oct 12 2017 - 03:05, said:

 

Explanation somebody, I don't have a clue what this is supposed to mean.

 

​He means like when his invisible tank knocks over fences and trees and he gets shot for it. The premise is that only arty can do that.

 

::Snickers::



Sgt__Guffy #508 Posted Oct 12 2017 - 05:34

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This is extracted from Rita's page today:

Minsk Developer Q&A with CCs    Q: Artillery is annoying will they be remove or change further?

A: Artillery will not be removed. The class is for people for like to predict another players behavior. There is a proportion of the players that really like this class and some players only plays artillery. Now players can survive longer rather than being one shot by artillery.

 

:trollface: :trollface: :trollface:

 

Arty haters: Thank you for your contribution

Case dismissed.

 

 



Shortcult #509 Posted Oct 12 2017 - 05:52

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View PostThornir, on Oct 11 2017 - 20:10, said:

 

:popcorn:​  Get 'Im, short!!

 

I didn't do this for you, but do you at least feel a little bit like maybe I'm more in the middle?

 

and btw, eff that guy.



Thornir #510 Posted Oct 12 2017 - 06:00

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View PostShortcult, on Oct 12 2017 - 05:52, said:

 

I didn't do this for you, but do you at least feel a little bit like maybe I'm more in the middle?

 

and btw, eff that guy.

Well, I was hoping. 

 

And maybe so.

 

and yes!






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