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How vision works- Why do i get shot by "invisible tanks"

new team play tanks skill survive lights heavies meds

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shoe123 #1 Posted Sep 27 2017 - 05:34

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If your getting shot by tanks you cant see and wonder why well here you go. (if you already have good understanding  this game, you know what your doing...move along..)

Just today on the map called El Halluf, a large map with a valley that runs down the center. Our top tier 9 heavy, a conqueror, decided that he would shoot down into the valley and get lights I guess... To his surprise he was instantly under fire and nearly dead within seconds of making this decision. He died less than two minutes into the match having done nothing. He was genuinely frustrated that he was getting shot but getting no lights.. At tier 9 I would think most would know but if not here we go.

Vision is the ability to see enemies around you. there are youtube videos and more information on WOT for exact information on mechanics of vision but here is a high level summary.

Lights can see the best out of all other tanks. Their view range is the farthest and they have great detection rate for tanks hiding in cover.

Mediums are next up, with some very close to that of lights

Heavies are third

TD's are last.

What this means is if both tanks are out in the open without cover and special equipment.. A light will see any other class before they see the light.

A medium will see a heavy before the heavy sees the med. and the heavy(usually) will see the TD before the td sees the heavy.. Now, there are some heavies that have very bad view range but as a whole this is pretty accurate.

Variables:

  • Cammo nets. A vehicle with a cammo net is harder to detect. if this vehicle isn't moving or firing all classes will have to get close before they see it
  • Trees and brush: if a tank is behind brush or trees, not moving and not firing, tanks will have to get closer before detecting the hidden tank
  • Binoculars, brothers in arms, coated optics, cammo nets, all help in detection or concealment. This means a tank with a cammo net behind a bush will be very hard to detect
  • Moving or firing increases your detection​
  • Gun size effects detection range. the bigger the gun the greater the chance for detection

​WOT has a large group of tanks to choose from.

  • Heavies:Typically heavies are slow, heavy armor, poor vision, large HP pool. If you are playing a heavy then you are deciding to play according to this type of tank. Your are making a decision to help your team as a heavy.
  • Mediums are usually faster, better vision, decent armor, can flex from flank to flank. If your in a medium...you have decided that you want to help as a medium..
  • TD's have terrible vison and typically sit behind their team and shoot what's lit. Be aware that with brush, cammo nets and binocs. a TD can be hard to detect if they are careful when they shoot
  • Light tanks: typically the hardest tank to get used to. small HP, little armor, fast, great vision, prone to lots of mod damage when hit.. IF you are in a light.. you have chosen a very important and underappreciated role...You have chosen a tank, whos job it is to get close to the enemy and get lights for the rest of your team. sometimes this means active spotting (driving around). Other times this means passive spotting (finding a bush near enemies and sitting still). If you are going to run a light, you must help your team as a light. If you sitting next you a TD inn the back...in most cases your too far back...I would only recommend lights when you understand all the tanks roles and what they do well. before running a light. tag along with a player in a light tank when you die..watch what they do.

​I hope this is helpful.

 

 

 



Doomslinger #2 Posted Sep 27 2017 - 05:50

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I used these bushes on the top of this hill to keep from getting spotted. I have 6th sense and you can see me firing many times at close ranges to enemy tanks and not getting spotted. Use the 15 meter dark bush rule when firing your gun and it helps hide your tank when firing at closer ranges. The bushes hide your tank as you fire when you back away from them but you also lose your ability to spot those enemy tanks. So, when they go dark again, push up to re-spot them then pull back and fire when the bush is dark again. Sometimes you might get spotted but it could be an enemy tank off at another angle that spotted you and not the tanks you were firing at, in most cases. If you want to know what not to do, watch what an ally in that hellcat did at 1:30 minutes in after he saw me and the td attacking the enemy and then decided to give it a go. He did it all wrong:



shoe123 #3 Posted Sep 27 2017 - 06:01

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View PostDoomslinger, on Sep 27 2017 - 05:50, said:

I used these bushes on the top of this hill to keep from getting spotted. I have 6th sense and you can see me firing many times at close ranges to enemy tanks and not getting spotted. Use the 15 meter dark bush rule when firing your gun and it helps hide your tank when firing at closer ranges. The bushes hide your tank as you fire when you back away from them but you also lose your ability to spot those enemy tanks. So, when they go dark again, push up to re-spot them then pull back and fire when the bush is dark again. Sometimes you might get spotted but it could be an enemy tank off at another angle that spotted you and not the tanks you were firing at, in most cases. If you want to know what not to do, watch what an ally in that hellcat did at 1:30 minutes in after he saw me and the td attacking the enemy and then decided to give it a go. He did it all wrong:

 

great example. And something else for the viewer to see is the total lack of cover the enemy tanks had on their side... which made detection for you that much easier.

1mp0ster #4 Posted Sep 27 2017 - 06:04

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Newer players have it super easy with the minimap circles. They still have to learn how camo works and double bushing and things like that. But basically learning spotting, view range, and camo ratings based on feel and experience was extremely difficult back 4 years ago.

VooDooKobra #5 Posted Sep 27 2017 - 07:08

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check out this website

 

http://www.wotinfo.n...camo-calculator



Rawrlynn #6 Posted Sep 27 2017 - 10:10

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there are a few exceptions when talking view range and tank class. a couple TDs are up close to mediums.  just a few though. like the E25 and T67 they both have a great view range that I know of. the Hellcat isn't bad but can still be out spotted by most mediums. 

then some mediums and heavies have the view range of a blind man in a closet with a blindfold on. but then there are just some exceptions 

 

but very good post. 



Chalybos #7 Posted Sep 27 2017 - 14:15

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View PostRawrlynn, on Sep 27 2017 - 04:10, said:

there are a few exceptions when talking view range and tank class. a couple TDs are up close to mediums.  just a few though. like the E25 and T67 they both have a great view range that I know of. the Hellcat isn't bad but can still be out spotted by most mediums. 

then some mediums and heavies have the view range of a blind man in a closet with a blindfold on. but then there are just some exceptions 

 

but very good post. 

 

E25 makes a hell of a scout.

redjkent #8 Posted Sep 27 2017 - 15:27

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i would have talk to the player and had him go down a few tiers, it seems like he doesn't get this game at that level and still needs to learn where heavies go on maps


Edited by redjkent, Sep 27 2017 - 15:27.


Cheesehead1964 #9 Posted Sep 27 2017 - 19:02

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View Postshoe123, on Sep 27 2017 - 05:34, said:

Lights can see the best out of all other tanks. Their view range is the farthest and they have great detection rate for tanks hiding in cover.

Mediums are next up, with some very close to that of lights

Heavies are third

TD's are last.

What this means is if both tanks are out in the open without cover and special equipment.. A light will see any other class before they see the light.

A medium will see a heavy before the heavy sees the med. and the heavy(usually) will see the TD before the td sees the heavy.. Now, there are some heavies that have very bad view range but as a whole this is pretty accurate.

 
  • TD's have terrible vison and typically sit behind their team and shoot what's lit. Be aware that with brush, cammo nets and binocs. a TD can be hard to detect if they are careful when they shoot

....

 

This is a good discussion but don't some TDs, like the Archilles, Wolverine, and Dicker Max, have excellent view ranges, especially with binos? And excellent camo values, especially with camo nets (and most TD players play with binos and camo nets)? I have a hard time believing a blind as a bat heavy would spot a TD first in most situations, especially when a TD is far more likely to be in cover, while heavies are usually brawling more out in the open (or at least around corners and hard cover), and are more likely to have been detected by scouts.


Edited by Cheesehead1964, Sep 27 2017 - 19:03.


WangOnTheLoose #10 Posted Sep 27 2017 - 19:30

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View PostCheesehead1964, on Sep 27 2017 - 13:02, said:

 

This is a good discussion but don't some TDs, like the Archilles, Wolverine, and Dicker Max, have excellent view ranges, especially with binos? And excellent camo values, especially with camo nets (and most TD players play with binos and camo nets)? I have a hard time believing a blind as a bat heavy would spot a TD first in most situations, especially when a TD is far more likely to be in cover, while heavies are usually brawling more out in the open (or at least around corners and hard cover), and are more likely to have been detected by scouts.

 

His explanation is overly simplistic.  For instance not all lights have better view range than same tier mediums and a lot of TDs have pretty good view range, tend to use binoculars, tend to be the only class that uses camo nets so they are pretty hard to spot unless they are the larger ones with bad camo.

 

The benefits that lights have over mediums is that they don't lose their camo rating while moving.


Edited by WangOnTheLoose, Sep 27 2017 - 19:30.


Tongates #11 Posted Sep 28 2017 - 04:36

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https://www.youtube....h?v=z0ed6y1PxS4

shoe123 #12 Posted Sep 28 2017 - 15:10

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View PostWangOnTheLoose, on Sep 27 2017 - 19:30, said:

 

His explanation is overly simplistic.  For instance not all lights have better view range than same tier mediums and a lot of TDs have pretty good view range, tend to use binoculars, tend to be the only class that uses camo nets so they are pretty hard to spot unless they are the larger ones with bad camo.

 

The benefits that lights have over mediums is that they don't lose their camo rating while moving.

Yes it is overly simplistic. It wasn't my goal to get into every detail. As a whole what I said is true. And I did mention variables with bullets on how vision and detection can be influenced... it's my hope that someone who is new that is stuggeling reads this. And then proceeds to dig deeper after have a better understanding. 



WangOnTheLoose #13 Posted Sep 28 2017 - 15:17

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View Postshoe123, on Sep 28 2017 - 09:10, said:

Yes it is overly simplistic. It wasn't my goal to get into every detail. As a whole what I said is true. And I did mention variables with bullets on how vision and detection can be influenced... it's my hope that someone who is new that is stuggeling reads this. And then proceeds to dig deeper after have a better understanding.

 

I get that but saying that lights have better view range than mediums is pretty misleading as it isn't particularly true, ditto with TDs.  Unfortunately, I think most people will just read what you wrote and take it as gospel!

firekitty #14 Posted Oct 01 2017 - 17:28

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Crew skills must also be taken into account. For example, say a team mate has radio relay, you do as well. That enables any tank within your combined broadcast area to see the tank, as long as it is in their render range, and any camo factors mitigated due to your closer proximity and spotting them. They will remain " invisible" to the target if out of their view range. Recon, situational awareness, equip. such as binocs, optics, upgraded turret ( extended view range) all affect camo values for ability to spot.

Edited by firekitty, Oct 01 2017 - 17:31.






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