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[Supertest] Vehicle Updates 9/27

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mob12345678 #41 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 15:10

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View Postindoctrinated, on Oct 09 2017 - 04:55, said:

If anything the Soviet tech tree contains a lot of turds. An example would be the T-44, T-54 being garbage tanks. The T-44 is just abysmal while the T-54 is a silly one-trick pony with 330 HEAT pen. Nothing else about a T-54 that's dangerous in a 1v1 fight. A T-54 is WAY less threatening to me than a Type 4 Heavy, T-10 or a Conqueror. Sure some Brit tanks are atrocious like the Tortoise, the Comet and Churchill 7 but other trees are like that too.

 

What i'm pointing out is that on your way to the tier 10s you get good tanks. With the british, on your way to tier 10 you get from horrible to more horrible. So there arent any good tank i'd say you  can grind up to.

Avalon304 #42 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 21:49

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View Postmob12345678, on Oct 09 2017 - 07:08, said:

 Also any other nations tanks is easy to use just the bitish is under powered. "Know how to use them" doesnt apply to other nations for their tanks are used by noobs and they still rekt some people.

 

I mean this is blatantly untrue. There are some lines that are easy to use (mainly the Japanese heavy tanks, Russian heavies through the IS-3 and Russian mediums through the T-54), but many lines in this game require you to understand specific mechanics about the game. And even then these lines have bad tanks in them.

 

View Postmob12345678, on Oct 09 2017 - 07:10, said:

 

What i'm pointing out is that on your way to the tier 10s you get good tanks. With the british, on your way to tier 10 you get from horrible to more horrible. So there arent any good tank i'd say you  can grind up to.

 

You get good tanks in the British line too. Cromwell, both Centurions, Churchill I, Caernarvon, Conqueror, Charioteer, Achilles. What you want are tanks that you can just play and do well in. 



mob12345678 #43 Posted Oct 10 2017 - 00:14

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View PostAvalon304, on Oct 09 2017 - 20:49, said:

 

I mean this is blatantly untrue. There are some lines that are easy to use (mainly the Japanese heavy tanks, Russian heavies through the IS-3 and Russian mediums through the T-54), but many lines in this game require you to understand specific mechanics about the game. And even then these lines have bad tanks in them.

 

 

This part, the Japs heavy line is a pain, arty always targets you and gold pens the front of it all the time. I'm currently using them and they have a few problems if you don't know how to use them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You get good tanks in the British line too. Cromwell, both Centurions, Churchill I, Caernarvon, Conqueror, Charioteer, Achilles. What you want are tanks that you can just play and do well in. 

Those tanks not really good anymore, they only got pen and rapid fire. The cromwell is now over runned by t-34-85m(Russian) centurions......not soo good but requires a lot of understanding to use them (so basically for pros or those with good pc and a good player) Caenarvon...getting buffed so IDK yet(Didn't have much understanding when I used it) Conqueror's gun depression is horrible forcing it's lowerplate to be exposed, cant side scrape to a lot of tanks and large cupola(getting gun depression buffed which would make it not able to be forcing it's lower plate to be shown aswell as it getting side scrape buff) Charioteer(didnt have much but I understood enough that it needs gun depression. Frustrating with 15 fps but it's average) Achillies, garbage without camo perk and stuff that required crew with perks.



indoctrinated #44 Posted Oct 10 2017 - 00:26

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View Postmob12345678, on Oct 09 2017 - 19:14, said:

Those tanks not really good anymore, they only got pen and rapid fire. The cromwell is now over runned by t-34-85m(Russian) centurions......not soo good but requires a lot of understanding to use them (so basically for pros or those with good pc and a good player) Caenarvon...getting buffed so IDK yet(Didn't have much understanding when I used it) Conqueror's gun depression is horrible forcing it's lowerplate to be exposed, cant side scrape to a lot of tanks and large cupola(getting gun depression buffed which would make it not able to be forcing it's lower plate to be shown aswell as it getting side scrape buff) Charioteer(didnt have much but I understood enough that it needs gun depression. Frustrating with 15 fps but it's average) Achillies, garbage without camo perk and stuff that required crew with perks.

15 FPS is a huge problem trying to make good use of the British heavies like the Caern and Conqueror. A key strength of those tanks is they have excellent weapons handling- they aim in much quicker than the other nations' tanks. Shame that computer hardware is quite pricey where you live- GPU technology is quite potent nowadays. An 70$~ USD GT 1030 delivers the same level of performance as a 120$~ (original MSRP) GTX 750 from 2014 while using almost 1/2 the power and less heat produced. Also matches the PS4 in terms of GPU power. I doubt you need a new computer tho- I believe an old Pentium 4 or Core 2 can still run this game. Doom 2016 still runs decently well on a 10+ year old Pentium 4 FYI.



Avalon304 #45 Posted Oct 10 2017 - 01:54

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View Postmob12345678, on Oct 09 2017 - 16:14, said:

Those tanks not really good anymore, they only got pen and rapid fire. The cromwell is now over runned by t-34-85m(Russian) centurions......not soo good but requires a lot of understanding to use them (so basically for pros or those with good pc and a good player) Caenarvon...getting buffed so IDK yet(Didn't have much understanding when I used it) Conqueror's gun depression is horrible forcing it's lowerplate to be exposed, cant side scrape to a lot of tanks and large cupola(getting gun depression buffed which would make it not able to be forcing it's lower plate to be shown aswell as it getting side scrape buff) Charioteer(didnt have much but I understood enough that it needs gun depression. Frustrating with 15 fps but it's average) Achillies, garbage without camo perk and stuff that required crew with perks.

 

In regards to what you bolded I said they were easy to use... I didnt say they were good. You literally load HE and shoot people for free damage. They are not hard to use at all. Even you as a 47% overall player is over performing in them (except the O-I for whatever reason).

 

As for the rest... you are blatantly wrong: 

 

The T-34-85M is good but its not as good as a Cromwell.

 

The Centurions are perfectly serviceable tier 8 and 9 mediums as they exist right now.

 

Caernarvon is basically a fatter Centurion with a better gun, meaning it can be used very effectively, even when bottom tier.

 

The Conqueror is one of the best tier 9 heavies in the game, and -7 degrees of gun depression is perfectly fine for this game as it exists to day. If youre being forced to expose your lower plate plate you need to learn how to position your tank better. -7 is more than most Russian heavies get, and you seem to think those tanks are so good. More over Conqueror shouldnt be used for side scraping.

 

If you think the Charioteer needed gun depression you were playing it wrong. Its currently the best TD in that line, its borderline OP on the test server. Because it can now effectively be played as a medium tank with that gun, in a turret, at tier 8.

 

The Achilles is a great tier 6 TD with a powerful punchy gun that can engage from stand off distances, as TDs should be doing. Camo is not required to do well in it. Its basically a Jackson but with a faster firing gun.

 

 

If you havent caught on yet... you need to learn the game. Your FPS excuse is just that... its an excuse. Learn to play this game learn the strengths of your tanks. You dont even have to be a good player to learn these tanks... just average. All the tanks listed are good, or at least average. They are not "horrible" not matter how much you want to frame them as such. Players like you, who think tanks are trash unless theyre super good are part of the reason this games balance is so godawful right now. Its ok for tanks to be average, or even bad. Thats part of having a balanced game. 



indoctrinated #46 Posted Oct 10 2017 - 02:25

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View PostAvalon304, on Oct 09 2017 - 20:54, said:

 

 

If you havent caught on yet... you need to learn the game. Your FPS excuse is just that... its an excuse. Learn to play this game learn the strengths of your tanks. You dont even have to be a good player to learn these tanks... just average. All the tanks listed are good, or at least average. They are not "horrible" not matter how much you want to frame them as such. Players like you, who think tanks are trash unless theyre super good are part of the reason this games balance is so godawful right now. Its ok for tanks to be average, or even bad. Thats part of having a balanced game. 

I'd like to see you try playing effectively on a toaster-quality computer that generates 15 FPS.



SpectreHD #47 Posted Oct 10 2017 - 06:39

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View Postmob12345678, on Oct 09 2017 - 22:08, said:

 I sort of agree with the rest but this last part cant compute with the level of noobs. Also any other nations tanks is easy to use just the bitish is under powered. "Know how to use them" doesnt apply to other nations for their tanks are used by noobs and they still rekt some people. Thats my point of view on it. Not only experienced players is to use the brits but noobs to. Why cant that happen? Anyways I cant explain all that I want to say for every day I tend to forgot what I really wanted to say.

 

I'm still using 15 fps toaster...kind of hard to aim now that the game keeps updating :(. I've been playing this game for  few years but only on july and august vacation so if you add that up it leads to less than 18 months so i nthat period I learned and learned with laggy gameplay of 15 fps. Now that I'm concious of how to play but the lag is my problem. I moved from 45% win rate to 47% winrate with that lag and now it's laggier :( with the updates coming in more and more. I aint living in the states so it's gonna be hard to spend money on a good pc  where 1 US = 7 TTD(my currency)

 

All I have to say it unfortunate your machine cannot handle the game. 

 

But for the other nations, they do have tanks that should be good but don't perform even if bad players are using them. For the nations I play, the M103 is considered good but it does have a high skill ceiling so there are players that cannot perform in it. For the Russian heavy line it is the T-10/IS-8.

 

But I do agree, overall, the British heavy line is bad. The Churchills are weighed down by their worthless armour thanks to premium ammo. The Caernarvon has been powercreeped. It truly gets good at the Conqueror because it is similar to the M103 both in characteristic and skill ceiling. I may even be better than the M103 because they have very similar stats but the Conqueror gets a more potent 120mm couple with good dispersion.

 

However, this isn't to say the other nations are easier. I would say the fault of the British heavies is that they have reduced capability because they cannot depend on armour particularly the ones that are balanced around it like the Churchills and Black Prince. This is of course a fault of WG and their reluctance to address premium ammo.

 

View Postindoctrinated, on Oct 10 2017 - 09:25, said:

I'd like to see you try playing effectively on a toaster-quality computer that generates 15 FPS.

 

Playing on a machine not capable of running the game doesn't reduce the balance of the tanks. 



Avalon304 #48 Posted Oct 10 2017 - 07:20

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View Postindoctrinated, on Oct 09 2017 - 18:25, said:

I'd like to see you try playing effectively on a toaster-quality computer that generates 15 FPS.

 

I used to play this game at 20 FPS on a MacBook with integrated Intel graphics. That was how I started and I still managed to do better than most of the player base. Not only on a toaster quality computer, but a Mac AND a laptop. Computer performance matters very little in this game as far as its relation to how you can perform as a player. And even if it did... it doesnt change the balance of the game.



Mikosah #49 Posted Oct 10 2017 - 18:03

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The situation concerning the 4202 is not the same as that of the Centurions in light of the difference in their silhouette sizes and camo values. WG has a golden opportunity to differentiate their roles, so hopefully that's what they'll do. The 4202 could make a decent conventional medium if it had buffs to horsepower and aim time rather than armor. 

 

As of the Centurions themselves, I repeat my usual position that giving them turret armor is an acceptable solution to their ongoing problems. Other potential solutions exist, and some may even be more ideal, but turret armor will do just fine.



mob12345678 #50 Posted Oct 10 2017 - 18:45

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View PostAvalon304, on Oct 10 2017 - 00:54, said:

 

In regards to what you bolded I said they were easy to use... I didnt say they were good. You literally load HE and shoot people for free damage. They are not hard to use at all. Even you as a 47% overall player is over performing in them (except the O-I for whatever reason).

The 0-i gets raped by "LeFH" aswell as the o-i EXP, that tank relaods too quickly and ll arty aims for them but I have low win rate in it cause gold roudns pens the front of the O-I everytime and the speed of it is way slower than the O NI. Thats why it dies pretty easily and quick

 

 

 

 

If you havent caught on yet... you need to learn the game. Your FPS excuse is just that... its an excuse. Learn to play this game learn the strengths of your tanks. You dont even have to be a good player to learn these tanks... just average. All the tanks listed are good, or at least average. They are not "horrible" not matter how much you want to frame them as such. Players like you, who think tanks are trash unless theyre super good are part of the reason this games balance is so godawful right now. Its ok for tanks to be average, or even bad. Thats part of having a balanced game. 

I can tell when a person never played the game with low performance, they always speak about "fps is just an excuse"



mob12345678 #51 Posted Oct 10 2017 - 18:51

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View PostAvalon304, on Oct 10 2017 - 06:20, said:

 

I used to play this game at 20 FPS on a MacBook with integrated Intel graphics. That was how I started and I still managed to do better than most of the player base. Not only on a toaster quality computer, but a Mac AND a laptop. Computer performance matters very little in this game as far as its relation to how you can perform as a player. And even if it did... it doesnt change the balance of the game.

 

Oh and 20 fps is actually slightly better than 15 fps, but in my situation when I go to sniper mode I reach 11 and 9 fps. These days my laptop malfunctions when I fire in my derp gunned tanks FV 183 and o-i. the speakers cant handle it :V

Avalon304 #52 Posted Oct 10 2017 - 21:32

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View PostMikosah, on Oct 10 2017 - 10:03, said:

The situation concerning the 4202 is not the same as that of the Centurions in light of the difference in their silhouette sizes and camo values. WG has a golden opportunity to differentiate their roles, so hopefully that's what they'll do. The 4202 could make a decent conventional medium if it had buffs to horsepower and aim time rather than armor. 

 

As of the Centurions themselves, I repeat my usual position that giving them turret armor is an acceptable solution to their ongoing problems. Other potential solutions exist, and some may even be more ideal, but turret armor will do just fine.

 

Once again youre wrong... the 4202 is the same sort of tank as a Centurion. They have the same role (as they should). Their profiles are not much different. It shouldnt be a conventional medium any more than any other Centurion should be.

 

And regarding the Centurions themselves, armor isnt going to fix anything for whatever ongoing problems you think they have. Stop being wrong.

 

View Postmob12345678, on Oct 10 2017 - 10:51, said:

 

Oh and 20 fps is actually slightly better than 15 fps, but in my situation when I go to sniper mode I reach 11 and 9 fps. These days my laptop malfunctions when I fire in my derp gunned tanks FV 183 and o-i. the speakers cant handle it :V

 

5FPS isnt that much of a difference. 20FPS is still well below whats deemed as "playable" in any real world measurement. The point is it is an excuse for a bad player to continue being bad. Stop making excuses and improve.

Mikosah #53 Posted Oct 10 2017 - 22:54

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View PostAvalon304, on Oct 10 2017 - 14:32, said:

 

Once again youre wrong... the 4202 is the same sort of tank as a Centurion. They have the same role (as they should). Their profiles are not much different. It shouldnt be a conventional medium any more than any other Centurion should be.

 

And regarding the Centurions themselves, armor isnt going to fix anything for whatever ongoing problems you think they have. Stop being wrong.

 

Once again you're trying to needlessly shoehorn both tanks into a very situational niche. The only thing that holds the 4202 back from being an ordinary flanking/sniping medium is mobility. And the only thing holding back the Centurions from hull-down tactics is the lack of turret armor. You've claimed a number of times now that the whole point is to never get hit in the first place, but if the proposed turret buffs go live then they wouldn't have to be nearly as paranoid about taking a single hit. That is a meaningful difference. 



Avalon304 #54 Posted Oct 11 2017 - 00:40

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View PostMikosah, on Oct 10 2017 - 14:54, said:

 

Once again you're trying to needlessly shoehorn both tanks into a very situational niche. The only thing that holds the 4202 back from being an ordinary flanking/sniping medium is mobility. And the only thing holding back the Centurions from hull-down tactics is the lack of turret armor. You've claimed a number of times now that the whole point is to never get hit in the first place, but if the proposed turret buffs go live then they wouldn't have to be nearly as paranoid about taking a single hit. That is a meaningful difference. 

 

You realize that the 4202 was called the 40 ton Centurion, right? It was literally a variant of the Centurion meant to test concepts (stuff like the supine driving position) for use in Chieftain. The FV4202 IS a Centurion. It does not need to be given a different role. The thing you say keeps the FV4202 from being a traditional medium is the same stuff that keeps all the other Centurions from being traditional mediums. None of them SHOULD be traditional mediums.

 

Im still just as paranoid about getting hit in the turret in my Primo Victoria. Because its armor IS NOT good. Players are going to very quickly find that they will still get penned in the turret cheeks or directly through the 230mm mantlet. Unless youre a tier 6 or 7, in which case youre basically told to go somewhere else. And THAT is bad balance.

 

More over its not just me putting these tanks in this role, its Wargaming. Who have ALSO described these tanks as "mid-range support" that should be engaging "unassuming targets". Meaning dont get hit in the first place, and engage targets from the 2nd line.



mob12345678 #55 Posted Oct 18 2017 - 02:47

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View PostAvalon304, on Oct 10 2017 - 20:32, said:

 

Once again youre wrong... the 4202 is the same sort of tank as a Centurion. They have the same role (as they should). Their profiles are not much different. It shouldnt be a conventional medium any more than any other Centurion should be.

 

And regarding the Centurions themselves, armor isnt going to fix anything for whatever ongoing problems you think they have. Stop being wrong.

 

 

5FPS isnt that much of a difference. 20FPS is still well below whats deemed as "playable" in any real world measurement. The point is it is an excuse for a bad player to continue being bad. Stop making excuses and improve.

 

Stop talk BS for me. You talk form up your *censored) and not form experienced. My winrate is increasing but then again you don't know how hard it is to aim with 15 fps. Stop trying to fight down something you never experience

mob12345678 #56 Posted Oct 18 2017 - 02:48

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View PostAvalon304, on Oct 10 2017 - 23:40, said:

 

You realize that the 4202 was called the 40 ton Centurion, right? It was literally a variant of the Centurion meant to test concepts (stuff like the supine driving position) for use in Chieftain. The FV4202 IS a Centurion. It does not need to be given a different role. The thing you say keeps the FV4202 from being a traditional medium is the same stuff that keeps all the other Centurions from being traditional mediums. None of them SHOULD be traditional mediums.

 

Im still just as paranoid about getting hit in the turret in my Primo Victoria. Because its armor IS NOT good. Players are going to very quickly find that they will still get penned in the turret cheeks or directly through the 230mm mantlet. Unless youre a tier 6 or 7, in which case youre basically told to go somewhere else. And THAT is bad balance.

 

More over its not just me putting these tanks in this role, its Wargaming. Who have ALSO described these tanks as "mid-range support" that should be engaging "unassuming targets". Meaning dont get hit in the first place, and engage targets from the 2nd line.

 

So if the p victoria gets hit in the mantle which makes the armor useless then what is the problem with  the cent if they have the same armor as the primo...wont they get penned like the primo? So it's like they have no armor -_- your argument is done.





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