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Free to Play. Pay to Win


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g4143 #1 Posted Oct 07 2017 - 22:17

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Does anyone else notice that this game, as you progress through the tiers, becomes more and more about pay and less and less about skill?

 

You hear the wot experts claim that its skill that wins the battles but you also hear from the experts that must get your tank and research all your modules and then train your crew and then add all your additional/essential modules and elite your tank by getting the next tank in line and then hope the RNG favors you... And this takes 100's of hours of playing to gain this without whipping out your credit card. Did I also mention this only 'marginally' increases the features of your base tank? Now if skill is the major factor here then why do you have to play all those 100's of hours to add and research and train and are at the mercy of the RNG? Shouldn't a skilled player be able to do that without al those modules and research and training and etc? No! You must go through that ritual every time you unlock the next tank if you hope to be competitive at any level above tier 1.

 

Look I'm not complaining about the business model wot uses(they are a business after all), I'm complaining about the so called experts who think skill is a major factor in playing this game when its not. You can't and I mean can't win consistently without investing 100's of hours into a tank or wiping out the credit card and purchasing your crew skills and modules and/or premium tanks. 

 

The bottom line is - If you want to consistently do better then you have to invest huge amounts of time into a tank to make it marginally better or you wipe out your credit card and purchase a premium tank and instantly become a much better tanker.

 

Let me save all the wot experts the response. Yeah I know I'm new and yeah I know my averages are terrible but I'm not dense. I can see how the premium tanks can outperform the standard tanks.

 

WOT experts. I want you to answer truthfully. Do you think you would win more consistently with a premium tank(that plays to your strengths) or a standard tank(without 100's of hours of play time to outfit the tank to be competitive) from the tree? 

 

Like I said, this is not a complaint aimed at WOT(a business has to make a profit) but at the so called wot experts.

 

PS. I'm surprised WOT hasn't sold ad space in its game. You could have an ad play while you are waiting for the count down to complete.


Edited by g4143, Oct 07 2017 - 22:24.


riff_ #2 Posted Oct 07 2017 - 22:24

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Does anyone else notice that this game, as you progress through the tiers, becomes more and more about pay and less and less about skill?

No.



VooDooKobra #3 Posted Oct 07 2017 - 22:28

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in my opinion i do not think that premium tanks necessarily make the player any better than he or she already is.  yes there are tree tanks and premium tanks that can be very forgiving when it comes to mistakes but long term you will more than likely see their stats normalize to what they run in tree tanks.  an OP tank is not going to fix fundamental errors and lack of skill.

 

with all the different tanks/vehicles in the game the trick is to find the line that plays to your strengths just like a person buying a premium does.

 

back in the age of pref MM the premium tanks could be the equivalent of unresearched tanks.  though since them and with a few facepalm tanks we seem to be getting more that are the equivalent of fully researched tanks



DERP_IN_THE_FACE #4 Posted Oct 07 2017 - 22:29

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Mother of god, another topic by this player. Everyone just leave this topic alone and dont say anything else

 

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/556041-amx-50-100-sucks/page__fromsearch__1

an example of how you cant anything through their head



J3Tears #5 Posted Oct 07 2017 - 22:30

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I can win in whatever is best that fits my Play style. As you progress through tiers its more about skill each and every level. I cant go into the low tiers and do good because Its all Fast Firing guns and there is rarely anything such as armor. 

 

Sure you can buy Premium tank, And then spend $500 Of gold to Use Free experience and Get a Full Maxed Crew, Permanent Camo, All Gold Load out, Premium Consumables and all that. But if you scout in a Skorpian G then you are still a bad player, Just a Rich bad player. 



Bavor #6 Posted Oct 07 2017 - 22:31

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DId you ever notice that the players who fail to be bothered to learn the basics of this game call the game pay to win and say that skill doesn't matter?  Especially the ones who average 1 shot of damage per battle in their tier 6, tier 7, and tier 8 tanks?

1mp0ster #7 Posted Oct 07 2017 - 22:32

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I don't realize that. Many people choose to stay in the mid-tiers and never pay a cent. I only started paying about a year and a half ago, played the first 2.5 years free. It was a pain, but I did get some tier 10s. This is not really a pay-to-win game. In fact, of the couple dozen F2P games I have played, this is the one that gives the least amount of actual advantage to paying players in actual competitiveness. Paying really only allows you to progress faster.

Nunya_000 #8 Posted Oct 07 2017 - 22:34

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View Postg4143, on Oct 07 2017 - 13:17, said:

 

Do you think you would win more consistently with a premium tank(that plays to your strengths) or a standard tank(without 100's of hours of play time to outfit the tank to be competitive) from the tree? 

 

Horrible comparison to create a loaded question.  It is no secret that premium tanks are better than comparable regular tanks that are stock.  A premium tank will not really make anybody better or win more....but they sure do make "the grind" a little more bearable. 



Anderwar #9 Posted Oct 07 2017 - 23:12

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For the win you need skill(game knowledge)+decent hardware (good fps and decent internet).  I had really great games in stock tanks too all my lines are grinded with out any investment (or the free exp from the game) just time. If the grind make you so sick just get a tank you like and play it.

8bit_Gamer #10 Posted Oct 07 2017 - 23:18

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#1: Premium Tanks are better than their Standard Tech tree piers. 

Yes, many of them are. At least for the average player. Some examples are Defender, Lorraine 40t, Patriot, AMX M4 mle. 49 Liberté and Skorpion G. These tanks may not be better than ALL of their Standard TechTree piers but better than most.

The situation, generally, also dictates the performance of your tank obviously but put in the same situation with two equally skilled players these Premium Tanks will perform better.Clearly the tank you choose will not change a players decision making or his map/situational awareness...it simply allows him/her to perform better in the situations they put themselves in.

*This can be confirmed through VBAddict.

 

#2: Premium Ammo, load the skill!

Loading Premium Ammo does not make you a better player. But it WILL improve your performance. Premium ammo has a higher penetration value which, in general depending on ammo type and opponent, will cause less bounces and more.....yup, damaging hits. Damaging hit = experience, kills and a better chance of winning the game. You can buy these rounds with silver which you can buy with real life currency. Not rocket science people...

 

#3 Premium Accounts and Premium Tanks only helps to speed up your grind.

Your Crew Skill % matters. Any F2P player who has had to grind a crew to %100 knows this. As does anyone who uses silver or gold to speed this process up.

Crew Skills matter. Take a 5 skill crew out on any tank. Then swap that crew out for a 0 skill crew and you will notice the difference.

Many stock tanks are terrible and only become viable/competitive after researching the top gun or turret or both. Many players, mostly experienced players with at least 10k battles will Free Exp (which cam be converted with Gold you bought with real life currency) through stock tank grinds for this exact reason.

 

All of the above are clear examples of Pay2Win elements. In many other competitive online titles even cosmetic micro transactions are cause for an uproar if the price is to high or the grind to get them through gameplay is to great. In the WoT community we are suffering from 'head in the sand' syndrome. Most refuse to acknowledge these observations.

 

I am in know way condoning nor condemning WG's business model. I myself have taken advantage of all the offerings WG gives me including Premium Account and Premium Tanks. I am only trying to bring to light what I feel to be painfully obvious. Any player if given the above mentioned advantages will perform better, advance quicker and in general have a more pleasant gaming experience.

 

I play WoT to win...and I pay to do it!

 



SilverEaglewing #11 Posted Oct 07 2017 - 23:24

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*tin foil hat equipped*

Stats:

+100% rng on unicums

-100000% accuracy 

50% crew equipped

1 shot of damage tier 1-8

Special ability: inability to take advice and reasoning instantly bounces off.

 



Sturm_Teufel #12 Posted Oct 07 2017 - 23:47

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View Post8bit_Gamer, on Oct 07 2017 - 14:18, said:

#1: Premium Tanks are better than their Standard Tech tree piers. 

Yes, many of them are. At least for the average player. Some examples are Defender, Lorraine 40t, Patriot, AMX M4 mle. 49 Liberté and Skorpion G. These tanks may not be better than ALL of their Standard TechTree piers but better than most.

The situation, generally, also dictates the performance of your tank obviously but put in the same situation with two equally skilled players these Premium Tanks will perform better.Clearly the tank you choose will not change a players decision making or his map/situational awareness...it simply allows him/her to perform better in the situations they put themselves in.

*This can be confirmed through VBAddict.

 

#2: Premium Ammo, load the skill!

Loading Premium Ammo does not make you a better player. But it WILL improve your performance. Premium ammo has a higher penetration value which, in general depending on ammo type and opponent, will cause less bounces and more.....yup, damaging hits. Damaging hit = experience, kills and a better chance of winning the game. You can buy these rounds with silver which you can buy with real life currency. Not rocket science people...

 

#3 Premium Accounts and Premium Tanks only helps to speed up your grind.

Your Crew Skill % matters. Any F2P player who has had to grind a crew to %100 knows this. As does anyone who uses silver or gold to speed this process up.

Crew Skills matter. Take a 5 skill crew out on any tank. Then swap that crew out for a 0 skill crew and you will notice the difference.

Many stock tanks are terrible and only become viable/competitive after researching the top gun or turret or both. Many players, mostly experienced players with at least 10k battles will Free Exp (which cam be converted with Gold you bought with real life currency) through stock tank grinds for this exact reason.

 

All of the above are clear examples of Pay2Win elements. In many other competitive online titles even cosmetic micro transactions are cause for an uproar if the price is to high or the grind to get them through gameplay is to great. In the WoT community we are suffering from 'head in the sand' syndrome. Most refuse to acknowledge these observations.

 

I am in know way condoning nor condemning WG's business model. I myself have taken advantage of all the offerings WG gives me including Premium Account and Premium Tanks. I am only trying to bring to light what I feel to be painfully obvious. Any player if given the above mentioned advantages will perform better, advance quicker and in general have a more pleasant gaming experience.

 

I play WoT to win...and I pay to do it!

 

 

Well said.:great:

View PostSilverEaglewing, on Oct 07 2017 - 14:24, said:

*tin foil hat equipped*

Stats:

+100% rng on unicums

-100000% accuracy 

50% crew equipped

1 shot of damage tier 1-8

Special ability: inability to take advice and reasoning instantly bounces off.

 

 

This amuses me, +1.:D I'm pretty sure it's aliens.... (or inbreeding in dev dept.....)

g4143 #13 Posted Oct 08 2017 - 01:02

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View PostVooDooKobra, on Oct 07 2017 - 22:28, said:

in my opinion i do not think that premium tanks necessarily make the player any better than he or she already is.  yes there are tree tanks and premium tanks that can be very forgiving when it comes to mistakes but long term you will more than likely see their stats normalize to what they run in tree tanks.  an OP tank is not going to fix fundamental errors and lack of skill.

 

with all the different tanks/vehicles in the game the trick is to find the line that plays to your strengths just like a person buying a premium does.

 

back in the age of pref MM the premium tanks could be the equivalent of unresearched tanks.  though since them and with a few facepalm tanks we seem to be getting more that are the equivalent of fully researched tanks

 

Again you are saying a good player can do just as good in a bad tank as a good tank and that's just not so. Can you please justify this logic in another place? Does an athlete using bad equipment play just as good as an equal athlete using good equipment? You are claiming they can.

Edited by g4143, Oct 08 2017 - 01:02.


g4143 #14 Posted Oct 08 2017 - 01:10

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View Post8bit_Gamer, on Oct 07 2017 - 23:18, said:

#1: Premium Tanks are better than their Standard Tech tree piers. 

Yes, many of them are. At least for the average player. Some examples are Defender, Lorraine 40t, Patriot, AMX M4 mle. 49 Liberté and Skorpion G. These tanks may not be better than ALL of their Standard TechTree piers but better than most.

The situation, generally, also dictates the performance of your tank obviously but put in the same situation with two equally skilled players these Premium Tanks will perform better.Clearly the tank you choose will not change a players decision making or his map/situational awareness...it simply allows him/her to perform better in the situations they put themselves in.

*This can be confirmed through VBAddict.

 

#2: Premium Ammo, load the skill!

Loading Premium Ammo does not make you a better player. But it WILL improve your performance. Premium ammo has a higher penetration value which, in general depending on ammo type and opponent, will cause less bounces and more.....yup, damaging hits. Damaging hit = experience, kills and a better chance of winning the game. You can buy these rounds with silver which you can buy with real life currency. Not rocket science people...

 

#3 Premium Accounts and Premium Tanks only helps to speed up your grind.

Your Crew Skill % matters. Any F2P player who has had to grind a crew to %100 knows this. As does anyone who uses silver or gold to speed this process up.

Crew Skills matter. Take a 5 skill crew out on any tank. Then swap that crew out for a 0 skill crew and you will notice the difference.

Many stock tanks are terrible and only become viable/competitive after researching the top gun or turret or both. Many players, mostly experienced players with at least 10k battles will Free Exp (which cam be converted with Gold you bought with real life currency) through stock tank grinds for this exact reason.

 

All of the above are clear examples of Pay2Win elements. In many other competitive online titles even cosmetic micro transactions are cause for an uproar if the price is to high or the grind to get them through gameplay is to great. In the WoT community we are suffering from 'head in the sand' syndrome. Most refuse to acknowledge these observations.

 

I am in know way condoning nor condemning WG's business model. I myself have taken advantage of all the offerings WG gives me including Premium Account and Premium Tanks. I am only trying to bring to light what I feel to be painfully obvious. Any player if given the above mentioned advantages will perform better, advance quicker and in general have a more pleasant gaming experience.

 

I play WoT to win...and I pay to do it!

 

 

You forgot to mention that the higher you go in the standard tank lines, the harder it is to stay out of deficit playing until you reach tiers that can't avoid deficit playing.

redjkent #15 Posted Oct 08 2017 - 01:17

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i guess im in the minority cause i don't use gold to train crews or to covert free xp, i think the better investment is on premium tanks that can train your crews and on premium time, i buy garage slots and barracks slots, cameo when its on sale so i don't spend that much a month on this game

8bit_Gamer #16 Posted Oct 08 2017 - 01:36

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View Postredjkent, on Oct 08 2017 - 00:17, said:

i guess im in the minority cause i don't use gold to train crews or to covert free xp, i think the better investment is on premium tanks that can train your crews and on premium time, i buy garage slots and barracks slots, cameo when its on sale so i don't spend that much a month on this game

 

Always best to wait for sales. Whether it is for crew retraining, free exp comversion...pretty much anything.

 

I typically only use accumulated free exp to skip tiers 1-4 in a new tank line I am grinding. Rarely use gold to convert.



Icon_Charlie #17 Posted Oct 08 2017 - 01:44

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At the OP.  You are not going to get the right answer here.  Message me if you want one and you will understand why.

VooDooKobra #18 Posted Oct 08 2017 - 01:49

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View Postg4143, on Oct 07 2017 - 17:02, said:

 

Again you are saying a good player can do just as good in a bad tank as a good tank and that's just not so. Can you please justify this logic in another place? Does an athlete using bad equipment play just as good as an equal athlete using good equipment? You are claiming they can.

 

More accurately i am saying that a good tank is not going to make a bad player a good one.  While tanks like the defender and the liberte on the premium side may be kinder to a bad player when they make mistakes they will still have the same flaws in their playstyle which will not help them in other vehicles.   Good players know how to use their tanks strengths and minimize their weaknesses.   you made the statement that buying a premium instantly makes you a better tanker and that is not true.  

 

you could probably have given Barry Bonds a wiffle bat and he probably would have more home runs than an average player with a high end bat



uberdice #19 Posted Oct 08 2017 - 01:50

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Player like OP really know what it takes to win games.



g4143 #20 Posted Oct 08 2017 - 02:05

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View PostVooDooKobra, on Oct 08 2017 - 01:49, said:

 

More accurately i am saying that a good tank is not going to make a bad player a good one.  While tanks like the defender and the liberte on the premium side may be kinder to a bad player when they make mistakes they will still have the same flaws in their playstyle which will not help them in other vehicles.   Good players know how to use their tanks strengths and minimize their weaknesses.   you made the statement that buying a premium instantly makes you a better tanker and that is not true.  

 

you could probably have given Barry Bonds a wiffle bat and he probably would have more home runs than an average player with a high end bat

 

Your example doesn't address the point. Would Barry Bonds hit more home runs with a professional baseball bat or a whiffle bat? This addresses the point.

 

When you consider the tank presents a set of features which includes better chances with the RNG.


Edited by g4143, Oct 08 2017 - 09:56.





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