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Cheating or Slander: Which is It?

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WinningWithWarchild #1 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 15:37

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Howdy Tankers, 

 

This weekend when I loaded up the PzB2, I played against a high WR player from a well known, highly ranked clan in his PzB2.  Now, I'm pretty dang good in my PzB2 and I fire prammo, so I can generally hold my own against a single opponent.  But this guy hit me in the turret for damage with every single shot whereas I bounced every 3rd shot (which is normal).  Needless to say, he smoked me and I was thoroughly impressed.  I messaged him after the game that I hadn't been schooled like that in 20 years, etc. and tried to platoon with him so I could learn. We didn't platoon but he laughed at my message and so I went about my day a lot more humbled about my abilities.

 

Later on in the weekend, I was playing as a Legionnaire for another clan as I often do, and we ended up facing this guy and his clan in a match. Once my team saw this highly ranked clan, they started saying "Here are the cheaters" and comments like that.  I asked why do they think they are cheating and the response was "Everyone knows these guys use Warpack and/or other illegal mods."  

 

I've only been playing WoT for a few months so I don't know the history behind a lot that goes on here.  I also don't take one person's word to heart without support or corroboration.  However, by my team making those comments it really tainted my opinion about this guy and what he had done to me previously.  Did he totally outclass me, or was he using some artificial enhancement that allowed him to dominate?  I'll never know the answer and that's okay but if the guy did simply outclass me, then that's a shame that I have some doubt now.  [The guy had tens of thousands of games and he and his clan show up all purple and blue on my XVM, so I tend to think I just came in 2nd]

 

I probably average 5-8 different teams a night as a legionnaire in Strongholds, and this is not the first time I've heard people complain about another team's "cheating ways."  Most of the time, the team saying that is a fair-to-poor group of players and I figure that they're just saying that to make themselves feel better about losing.  To be fair I don't know anything about illegal mods or bots or how they're detected/used (someone helped me set up Solo's Modpack).  I also don't know how widespread cheating goes in WoT, but if I listened to all the folks who have told me about it, it would appear to be an incredibly high number (which adds to my non-belief in the importance of winrates).

 

None of this changes me or my enjoyment of the game, but now I have this thought in the back of my mind when I play against certain players that wasn't there before.  If they're honest, hard working tankers without anything suspicious then my "doubt" really does them a disservice.  If cheating is as rampant as some folks would have me believe, then that's a shame as well.  Either way, I am no longer a "virgin" player with clean thoughts about my betters which saddens me because I do try to look for the best in others (even though I can rage in game).

 

That's all I have for now.  I'd like to hear what you guys think/know on the subject if you have time.

 

Have a great day and some Happy Tanking!


WinningWithWarchild

 



SilverEaglewing #2 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 15:40

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If people say here are the cheaters in a non sarcastic tone, I just leave them and say this can't be helped. People think they are better outplayed because of hacks, but it really comes down to rng and skill.

Ndtm #3 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 15:44

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All you need to remember is that there is no mod that can affect the game mechanics (i.e make your gun more accurate or reload faster or make your tank go faster etc)

But sure, there are aimbots that can aim for you but even that can't circumvent the mechanics and you still need to be good to have good stats over a large game sample



AnonymousHippopotamus #4 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 15:53

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You seem like a smart guy... Don't believe people people that play this game and call other people cheaters.  In fact, I would distance myself from players that are trying to justify their failures by trying to say other players are cheating or using illegal mods.   A lot of bad/clans and players do this and it's honestly sad.  However it is pretty satisfying when someone goes out of their way to message you after a match and tell you they thought you were cheating.  I love outplaying someone so much that their only thought is that you must have some illegal advantage over them :D

moogleslam #5 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 15:53

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No mod or cheat or hack is going to give a player purple stats.  Side note, if it was RELIC, then apparently we get accused of hacking all the time.  I'm only in REL-A, and even I hear it a lot.  No idea why.  I guess it's bad players not understanding how someone can be so good without cheating?

saber1179 #6 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 15:54

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When TC's where still a thing you would run in to these type of players all the time.   One of the Top 10 clans would pop up, and people would give up all hope or just quite the match and say thinsg like cheaters and they just use gold rounds (when they did cost gold).

 

In all my games I have only questioned one shot on me and thought it might be warpack.  I like  fighting better players you don't get better by farming some dumb pubbie



AndrewSledge #7 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 15:54

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I have no issues penetrating every shot fired with premium ammo in a B2 vs B2 fight. The turret isn't heavily armored, has known weakspots, and they're easy to hit when you're up close.

Zamboniman_60 #8 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 15:55

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It's really hard to say...  I know that illegal mods have been used by players previously and WG claims to now actively address that issue (I found this on the Daily Bounce - https://thedailybounce.net/2017/09/29/world-of-tanks-sixth-wave-of-bans/

 

The fact that they don't actually list player's names does leave question marks about the legitimacy of their claims (I haven't heard of anyone being perma-banned) but I take it for face value.

I understand that in this game there are those that are good, then there are those that are REALLY good, but I can't wrap my head around how someone can have a 65%+ WR with the MM that has been going on lately.  No matter how good you are, you'd think that the law of averages would impact on your stats at some point...lol

I guess at the end of the day, you have to believe that WG is trying to deal with the illegal mods and that some people just have better hand/eye coordination than you... that would be my take away from it...



WinningWithWarchild #9 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 15:55

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View PostSilverEaglewing, on Oct 09 2017 - 08:40, said:

If people say here are the cheaters in a non sarcastic tone, I just leave them and say this can't be helped. People think they are better outplayed because of hacks, but it really comes down to rng and skill.

 

Yeah, I agree with you.  I lose to better, smarter players all the time and I've never felt like they did anything special other than outclass or outsmart me.  This was the one time where I was bobbing and weaving and still couldn't bounce a shot - had I bounced one (just one), I would have dismissed this clan's comments like I have all the previous ones.  As it sits right now, I still believe this guy was just that good without anything illegal - but 5% of my thought is that it could have been rigged.

 

On the rarest of occasions, people complain that I am hacking in game.  I take that as a compliment and always offer the complainer the opportunity to watch the replay from my perspective (on www.wotreplays.eu) if they feel that strongly about it.

 

*Side Note: I'm skeptical.  So when someone says something about someone else, I ask questions.  Some of the clans that have discussed cheating have players from these other clans who give "first hand accounts" of the cheating.  I don't know if they got kicked out and are mad or what have you.  I don't really care.  I have around an 85% winrate in Stronghold battles and many victories come against some of these "cheaters" so either they're turning the cheat off for SH's or people are full of it.



APPSTATE83 #10 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 16:05

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quickybaby on you tube has a good aimbot cheating video...

WinningWithWarchild #11 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 16:07

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View Postmoogleslam, on Oct 09 2017 - 08:53, said:

No mod or cheat or hack is going to give a player purple stats.  Side note, if it was RELIC, then apparently we get accused of hacking all the time.  I'm only in Rel-A, and even I hear it a lot.  No idea why.  I guess it's bad players not understanding how someone can be so good without cheating?

 

It was not RELIC or any subclan of you guys. That's going to be my one and only denial though.  I'm not going to say who it was or which clan because I don't believe the cheating remarks and after reading all of your comments, I'm not going to think about cheating in game anymore either.  

 

Keep in mind, my rating is around 5,600.  So when top clans don't take a chance on me (or are desperate) in Strongholds, then I have to find teams that will and that includes clans with 2,000-3,000 ranked players.  A lot of those players complain about cheating, but as I said before and many of you have reaffirmed: people say things to make themselves feel better and I will continue to dismiss those types of comments as I have always done.



Ken_McGuire #12 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 16:27

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Do people use illegal mods? Yeah - it happens. In just about every human activity, there are some humans who will take illegal advantages, There are mods that can mark on the minimap where trees go down - and thus telling where unspotted tanks are. There are mods that can change default auto-aim to aim at weak points or modules.

 

But these mods cannot change RNG that the SERVER calculates. And at tier 6, this is huge. Almost certainly there are quite a few more "hackusations" than actual cheats in the game. I certainly know that I have been accused of it when I certainly was not.

 

As stated above, in general it is better to associate with those in game who will examine their own play instead of instantly complaining about hacks.



GAJohnnie #13 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 16:35

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Well in a sense he is "cheating" since the PZB2 is a premium so he is probably using a 4-5 perk crew and has the credits to use improve consumables etc.

 

He is legally stacking the deck as high as he can. It is not actually cheating but it is a pretty scumbag way to play. If a player has  to stack the deck this high in a teir 4, so they can beat up the weaker players who cannot even effectively fight back, they are pretty much the same sort of scum as someone who cheats.



Lethalhavoc #14 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 16:43

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View Postmoogleslam, on Oct 09 2017 - 10:53, said:

No mod or cheat or hack is going to give a player purple stats. 

 

I gotta disagree with that.

 



WinningWithWarchild #15 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 16:44

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View PostGAJohnnie, on Oct 09 2017 - 09:35, said:

Well in a sense he is "cheating" since the PZB2 is a premium so he is probably using a 4-5 perk crew and has the credits to use improve consumables etc.

 

He is legally stacking the deck as high as he can. It is not actually cheating but it is a pretty scumbag way to play. If a player has  to stack the deck this high in a teir 4, so they can beat up the weaker players who cannot even effectively fight back, they are pretty much the same sort of scum as someone who cheats.

 

I respect your opinion on this subject, but I disagree with your thoughts on this.  I don't consider that cheating, nor do I consider people who fire gold rounds to be less talented players.  I, myself, use every advantage that I can get and the whole reason I play my Tier IV's every day for the 2x is to improve their skills so they will be even more dominate.  Because as OP as I am in my Tier IV tanks (and I am pretty dang good in them), there's nothing I can do about MM and especially when playing in my 1 1/2 skill PzB2, Wargaming makes me work extra hard to carry for the win.  I cannot wait for the day that I have 3-4 skill crews in those tanks - and if that's considered cheating then I guess "if you can't beat'em, join'em!"

 

:trollface:



Toxicity73 #16 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 16:44

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In regards to the OP and this is not a troll. Its slander pure and simple. I have a rule in life, unless I have hard proof of anything I dont give it much attention. Ill take notice but I will not by any means take as truth. One persons accusation should not be the basis for what you believe. Dont let someones unfounded opinion on someone else they nothing about solidify your thoughts, get proof.

nuclearguy931 #17 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 16:46

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View PostWinningWithWarchild, on Oct 09 2017 - 09:37, said:

Howdy Tankers, 

 

This weekend when I loaded up the PzB2, I played against a high WR player from a well known, highly ranked clan in his PzB2.  Now, I'm pretty dang good in my PzB2 and I fire prammo, so I can generally hold my own against a single opponent.  But this guy hit me in the turret for damage with every single shot whereas I bounced every 3rd shot (which is normal).  Needless to say, he smoked me and I was thoroughly impressed.  I messaged him after the game that I hadn't been schooled like that in 20 years, etc. and tried to platoon with him so I could learn. We didn't platoon but he laughed at my message and so I went about my day a lot more humbled about my abilities.

 

Later on in the weekend, I was playing as a Legionnaire for another clan as I often do, and we ended up facing this guy and his clan in a match. Once my team saw this highly ranked clan, they started saying "Here are the cheaters" and comments like that.  I asked why do they think they are cheating and the response was "Everyone knows these guys use Warpack and/or other illegal mods."  

 

I've only been playing WoT for a few months so I don't know the history behind a lot that goes on here.  I also don't take one person's word to heart without support or corroboration.  However, by my team making those comments it really tainted my opinion about this guy and what he had done to me previously.  Did he totally outclass me, or was he using some artificial enhancement that allowed him to dominate?  I'll never know the answer and that's okay but if the guy did simply outclass me, then that's a shame that I have some doubt now.  [The guy had tens of thousands of games and he and his clan show up all purple and blue on my XVM, so I tend to think I just came in 2nd]

 

I probably average 5-8 different teams a night as a legionnaire in Strongholds, and this is not the first time I've heard people complain about another team's "cheating ways."  Most of the time, the team saying that is a fair-to-poor group of players and I figure that they're just saying that to make themselves feel better about losing.  To be fair I don't know anything about illegal mods or bots or how they're detected/used (someone helped me set up Solo's Modpack).  I also don't know how widespread cheating goes in WoT, but if I listened to all the folks who have told me about it, it would appear to be an incredibly high number (which adds to my non-belief in the importance of winrates).

 

None of this changes me or my enjoyment of the game, but now I have this thought in the back of my mind when I play against certain players that wasn't there before.  If they're honest, hard working tankers without anything suspicious then my "doubt" really does them a disservice.  If cheating is as rampant as some folks would have me believe, then that's a shame as well.  Either way, I am no longer a "virgin" player with clean thoughts about my betters which saddens me because I do try to look for the best in others (even though I can rage in game).

 

That's all I have for now.  I'd like to hear what you guys think/know on the subject if you have time.

 

Have a great day and some Happy Tanking!


WinningWithWarchild

 

 

OP, don't listen to others when they say there are no known mods out there that can help a player out or better their stats. If that was the case WoT would not have a list of banned mods that are available with a simple Google search. This was all brought to the greater attention of others when one well known streamer actually got caught using (at the time 'suspect' mods) mods that have since been labelled 'banned', on his live stream.

 

Here is a C&P from another WoT forum:

All is listed in black font as using red on these forums is reserved for moderator use, here is the direct link to the thread in question that I am referring: 

http://forum.worldof...and-forbidden/ 

 

In red those that are obvious cheats and thus forbidden. (The colors are based on what WG said in their Fair Play communication, although I personally consider great part of the mods in yellow/orange as cheats.)

 

 [Obvious cheat category - according to WG].  3. Mods that do provide a gameplay advantage, one that we think is bad overall for the game. These are classified as a cheat and are illegal going forward.

  • [a] Mods that reveal the position of enemies in a way not included in the vanilla client, by marking objects destroyed on the map and minimap in real-time, by altering the display of shell flight tracers or calculating the position of enemy SPGs with tracers and marking them, as well as those that keep spotted vehicles displayed, even when you aren’t aiming at them
  • [b] Software that makes it easier to block an enemy’s shell by indicating their exact aiming point, for example, with a laser beam
  • [c] Modifications that alert you when spotted vehicles are reloading or show enemy vehicles’ reloading timers
  • [d] Auto-aim or so-called “aimbots” that provide more functionality than the “aim lock” in the vanilla client, specifically including those that aim at the enemy's weak spots and/or lead the aim automatically so that a cheater can focus on maneuvering their tank
  • [e] Software that enables the automatic use of non-Premium consumables
  • [f] Mods that aid in finding enemies by letting you adjust the transparency of objects on the map
  • [g] Software that leaves “ghosts” of enemy vehicles on the battlefield, placed where they were last detected
  • [i] Mods that actually alter the physical properties, performance characteristics, or effects of any vehicle or object in the game, or subvert the game rules

 

 * Different versions from different authors

 


 

  • Destroyed Objects on the Minimap *  
  • Aimbots/Autoaimbots * 
  • Laserpointers/Lazers [Shows you where the enemy team is aiming in real time with different lazer colours for every tank.] *
  • Tracers [Allows you to see the trajectory of shells fired from tanks - I suppose this is used to find where campers are hiding] *
  • Translocation Modification [I don't understand what this is able to do] 
  • Sphere/Column Outside Rendering *
  • Reload Timers Modifications *
  • Zoom Out Modifications  (A source -link- says it's 0k to use.)
  • X- Ray Modifications [Allowing you to see the tank silhouette despite the tank being behind an object/building/mountain] *
  • Premium Consumable AutoEquipment [Gives you premium fire extinguisher automatically]
  • Transparency Alteration Mods/Tundra Script [Making possible to alter the transparency of vegetation] *
  • Fog Remover Modification [Removes fog in the maps where it is present] (A source -link- says it's 0k to use.)
  • White dead tanks: makes destroyed tanks more visible by making them totally white* (A source -link- says it's 0k to use.)
  • Master Ambush [New Cheat that calculates different parameters and basically tells you if it's ok to shoot behind a bush without being spotted by the enemy]  
  • Live Player Stats (with or without other parts of XVM) *
  • Arty (battle) Assistant 
  • SafeShoot (0k to use - link)
  • HP Pools - adds information about HP of the tanks (ally and enemy) as last seen by the player
  • Extended 6th sense sound duration, e.g. prolonged to 10 seconds.
  • Modifications to objects to make them more visible, like bright yellow trains, etc. (Link)
  • Enemy gun indicators on the minimap: shows direction where enemies within the draw distance are pointing their guns (on the minimap) (Link)
  • Sound mods
  • Effect mods: changing how explosions look like, removing smoke, etc.
  • Server-side reticle: secondary aiming point that corresponds to where your tank is aiming on server side
  • Damage indicator mods: OK as long as these don't show the enemy reload time
  • Reload time indicator (approximate with no countdown) (Link)
  • Clown skins and skins that show locations of crew and modules (Link)
  • In-game penetration indicator mods (Link)
  • Extending both the sound and icon visibility duration of 6th sense (Link)
  • Received hit indicators (Link)


moogleslam #18 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 16:47

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View PostLethalhavoc, on Oct 09 2017 - 11:43, said:

View Postmoogleslam, on Oct 09 2017 - 10:53, said:

No mod or cheat or hack is going to give a player purple stats. 

 

I gotta disagree with that.

 

 

Please elaborate.



Lethalhavoc #19 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 16:52

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View Postmoogleslam, on Oct 09 2017 - 11:47, said:

 

Please elaborate.

 

Given the number of illegal "cheat" mods out there and a persons ability to exploit them, it's foolish in the extreme to believe that they wouldn't turn an average or good player into a great player.

As pointed out above, if they didn't offer an advantage, they wouldn't be banned.... Right?



Eisenriese #20 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 17:01

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I have seen a few instances of aimbot/aim assist but other than that its too hard to tell if you got out played or was cheated. 

 

The problem with the OP's scenario is that tank is a seal clubbers tank. The "unicum" was either having a bad day and need to wreck some noobs OR was having a bad day in "real" tanks and had to salvage some wn8. Like others have said. Slapping in a 5+ perk crew with (maybe) improved ranked battles equipment pretty much makes a win 1v1 again the OP 9/10 times.







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