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Cheating or Slander: Which is It?

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WinningWithWarchild #21 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 17:04

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View PostToxicity73, on Oct 09 2017 - 09:44, said:

In regards to the OP and this is not a troll. Its slander pure and simple. I have a rule in life, unless I have hard proof of anything I dont give it much attention. Ill take notice but I will not by any means take as truth. One persons accusation should not be the basis for what you believe. Dont let someones unfounded opinion on someone else they nothing about solidify your thoughts, get proof.

 

Hey man, I'm with you on this.  I'm skeptical by nature anyway and tend to disbelieve everything that is said to me on the internet.  I've spent a good portion of my job working with lawyers and watching all the movies, so to quote from a Few Good Men, "I don't care what you believe, only what you can prove!"

 

As far as illegal mods go that someone else mentioned, it took me 3 years before I installed my first one in a game and that was AFTER watching Quickybaby and a Wargaming employee live stream using mods with XVM. My clan lead hooked me up with Solo's Modpack and I've really gotten a lot of benefit from it.  I have been told that the selections I use are legal, but they include: fog reduction, safe shoot (I would team kill sometimes if the mod didn't stop me) and a hit pool counter for the total HP for each team. I live stream my games on my YouTube page: www.youtube.com/WinningWithWarchild so you can see what it looks like.  Although those few items help me in game, I really like the benefits of: a clock, auto-credits instead of auto-gold, crew training and return, and seeing my stats for each tank.  I can live without all of these things but now that I've had them, I like having them.



WinningWithWarchild #22 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 17:08

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View PostEisenriese, on Oct 09 2017 - 10:01, said:

 Slapping in a 5+ perk crew with (maybe) improved ranked battles equipment pretty much makes a win 1v1 again the OP 9/10 times.

 

I'm totally okay with this.  One day, the grasshopper will become the clubber too.  Because sometimes those seals are too damn smug!

 

:teethhappy:



BaerenGott #23 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 17:09

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View PostGAJohnnie, on Oct 09 2017 - 10:35, said:

Well in a sense he is "cheating" since the PZB2 is a premium so he is probably using a 4-5 perk crew and has the credits to use improve consumables etc.

 

He is legally stacking the deck as high as he can. It is not actually cheating but it is a pretty scumbag way to play. If a player has  to stack the deck this high in a teir 4, so they can beat up the weaker players who cannot even effectively fight back, they are pretty much the same sort of scum as someone who cheats.

 

I've said it before:  if players were required to fight against their peers(say within 5% of their own WR, or PR, or whatever number decreed) there'd be a lot fewer "top" players.  I think a lot of high-WR comes from seal-clubbing, where that Pz.Kpfw B2 740(f) comes in handy, along with a few other hard-to-find tanks.

 

I personally don't think many people actively cheat.  I do think MANY people 'stack the deck' by using proven-OP tanks, staying in low-tiers, and consuming premium consumables and ammunition.  There is nothing whatsoever illegal about any of that...but it says a lot about a player's lack of ethics and true competitiveness.



Awestryker #24 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 17:29

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View PostAndrewSledge, on Oct 09 2017 - 09:54, said:

I have no issues penetrating every shot fired with premium ammo in a B2 vs B2 fight. The turret isn't heavily armored, has known weakspots, and they're easy to hit when you're up close.

 

I have not played my PzB2 in many months, but yea, when I did play it or other tanks I used to say to my team at the start of every match with a PzB2 on the other team "shoot the PzB2 in the turret, the turret is glass"...and it is...

 

 



WinningWithWarchild #25 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 18:03

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View PostBaerenGott, on Oct 09 2017 - 10:09, said:

 

I've said it before:  if players were required to fight against their peers(say within 5% of their own WR, or PR, or whatever number decreed) there'd be a lot fewer "top" players.  I think a lot of high-WR comes from seal-clubbing, where that Pz.Kpfw B2 740(f) comes in handy, along with a few other hard-to-find tanks.

 

I personally don't think many people actively cheat.  I do think MANY people 'stack the deck' by using proven-OP tanks, staying in low-tiers, and consuming premium consumables and ammunition.  There is nothing whatsoever illegal about any of that...but it says a lot about a player's lack of ethics and true competitiveness.

 

Although I win more than I lose in the PzB2, I have not had a game yet where I felt like I was clubbing.  Even when I've platooned with 2 other good players in their PzB2's.  

 

I think everyone plays games for different reasons.  I play WoT to have fun and so I only keep tanks that I enjoy playing, which is mostly comprised of OP tanks for their tier.  I stopped grinding after I reached the Hetzer, Matilda, AMX 40, and the A-20 (and I paid for the PzB2).  Now, I play those tanks every day but only until the 2x is gone and then I move on.  I sometimes return to the PzB2 or the Matilda if MM is picking on me, but I never have had a game that I felt was a true club.

 

This is today's view of my entire garage:

I consider these tanks to be OP with the exception of the Pudel and the HT No. VI, but I enjoy playing them for sentimental reasons.  The Tech Tree Tier VIII tanks, M40/M43 and the 110, also aren't OP and will be sold and replaced with or without Ace Mastery Badges.  The remaining tanks either have Ace Mastery Badges or will get them at some point in the next 3 months.  The only other tanks that I'm planning on acquiring are the WZ-111-1-4, either the 113 or 5A, the M44 (yes, I'm downgrading the Arty because the M44 was the only one I liked playing), and some Tier VIII Light Tank to be determined later (I would prefer to purchase a premium light than grind to one - I'll do anything to complete the LT-15 StugIV mission!).

 

I don't know what my approach to WoT says about my ethics or competitiveness, but I will say that I use every legal advantage that I can to get a win.  My only real battles in-game are against myself and/or MM - whichever is worst at the time ;)



moogleslam #26 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 18:23

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View PostLethalhavoc, on Oct 09 2017 - 11:52, said:

 

Given the number of illegal "cheat" mods out there and a persons ability to exploit them, it's foolish in the extreme to believe that they wouldn't turn an average or good player into a great player.

As pointed out above, if they didn't offer an advantage, they wouldn't be banned.... Right?

 

There is no cheat that replaces or improves on skill and experience.  Any cheat can only provide a small and incremental improvement statistically, but can never replace the decision making of the human brain, which is necessary for purple stats.  Let's say Aimbot never missed a shot, and even overcame the RNG of the game.  Even that wouldn't result in purple stats because you still need to be in the right place at the right time, need to know when to help a teammate, take a shot for a teammate, retreat, defend, cap, scout, track vs dmg, etc.  No cheat is replacing human decision making.  Yes, they can provide an unfair advantage, and that's why they're banned, but they don't suddenly make every tomato a unicum, or even a good player a great player.

 

Saying it is "foolish in the extreme" doesn't make you right.  That's just hyperbole.



Lethalhavoc #27 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 18:48

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View Postmoogleslam, on Oct 09 2017 - 13:23, said:

 

There is no cheat that replaces or improves on skill and experience.  Any cheat can only provide a small and incremental improvement statistically, but can never replace the decision making of the human brain, which is necessary for purple stats.  Let's say Aimbot never missed a shot, and even overcame the RNG of the game.  Even that wouldn't result in purple stats because you still need to be in the right place at the right time, need to know when to help a teammate, take a shot for a teammate, retreat, defend, cap, scout, track vs dmg, etc.  No cheat is replacing human decision making.  Yes, they can provide an unfair advantage, and that's why they're banned, but they don't suddenly make every tomato a unicum, or even a good player a great player.

 

Saying it is "foolish in the extreme" doesn't make you right.  That's just hyperbole.

 

I think that you're in denial about the effect of multiple illegal mod use.

 

I never claimed or even implied that a tomato player would become purple overnight.

I said that an average or good player would become purple, if they understood how to use those mods.

 

Aimbot + lasers + OTM reload + LS grey silhouettes + object destruction + tracers + ambush would and could give a huge advantage to any player with enough skill to make full use of them.

To deny the power of the above combination of illegal mods is laughable.


Edited by Lethalhavoc, Oct 09 2017 - 19:13.


WinningWithWarchild #28 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 19:02

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Fellas, please.  I think you both agree that illegal mods exist and that certain people use them.  You simply have a disagreement about the degree to which an illegal mod can elevate one's game or winrate.  You both come from different perspectives and experiences and we have all benefited from your input in this thread.  Therefore, I ask that you please refrain from personal or negative attacks on one another here.  Let's keep this thread on a more positive note - if at all possible :girl:

 

 



moogleslam #29 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 19:17

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View PostLethalhavoc, on Oct 09 2017 - 13:48, said:

I think that you're in denial about the effect of multiple illegal mod use.

 

I think that you're in denial about opinions being different from facts

 

View PostLethalhavoc, on Oct 09 2017 - 13:48, said:

I never claimed or even implied that a tomato player would become purple overnight.

I said that an average or good player would become purple, if they understood how to use those mods.

 

Thanks; I know what I said and what you said.  I was here and am well aware "tomato to purple" came from me and not you.  Moving on.... maybe we have different definitions of good vs great.  Good is what, green?  That's above average so let's call it good.  Great is purple? Maybe you can't grasp how someone can be purple without hacks, or at least, you can't conceptualize that you'll need to improve the human factor to get there, and that installing some cheats won't do it to any significant degree (my opinion).

 

View PostLethalhavoc, on Oct 09 2017 - 13:48, said:

To deny the power of the above combination of illegal mods is laughable.

 

To deny the power of opinions and facts being different is laughable.

 

View PostLethalhavoc, on Oct 09 2017 - 13:48, said:

And your last post proves that you are foolish in the extreme and seriously naive.

 

That was cute how you quoted me quoting you.  I think all it does is prove that I have a different opinion from you, and until we have data to support our opinions, they are just opinions and not facts.  Insults don't change that, and don't make me take you any more seriously, or make me believe you more.



Lethalhavoc #30 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 19:29

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View Postmoogleslam, on Oct 09 2017 - 14:17, said:

 

I think that you're in denial about opinions being different from facts

 

 

Thanks; I know what I said and what you said.  I was here and am well aware "tomato to purple" came from me and not you.  Moving on.... maybe we have different definitions of good vs great.  Good is what, green?  That's above average so let's call it good.  Great is purple? Maybe you can't grasp how someone can be purple without hacks, or at least, you can't conceptualize that you'll need to improve the human factor to get there, and that installing some cheats won't do it to any significant degree (my opinion).

 

 

To deny the power of opinions and facts being different is laughable.

 

 

That was cute how you quoted me quoting you.  I think all it does is prove that I have a different opinion from you, and until we have data to support our opinions, they are just opinions and not facts.  Insults don't change that, and don't make me take you any more seriously, or make me believe you more.

 

I never claimed or even implied that every (or even many) purple players used illegal mods.

My kid is a purple player, he doesn't use illegal mods.

 

However, I've seen enough videos of players using illegal mods over the years to respect their impact on game play. 

As far as "opinion" goes, maybe we could argue that this is just a matter of education?

It would be easy for a person who has not seen them to greatly underestimate their effect.

 

I, like xvm, consider a yellow player to be average, a green player to be good, a blue player to be very good and a purple player to be great.

 

Oh, and here is a fact for you. They are banned for a reason, that's a fact.

 


Edited by Lethalhavoc, Oct 09 2017 - 19:37.


WinningWithWarchild #31 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 19:38

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What we have hee-ya...

 

Is a faaaaailure...to communicate...

 

You gotta get your mind right, boy(s).

 

;)

 

PS - Bonus points if you can name the movie without Googling it!



Lethalhavoc #32 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 19:41

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View PostWinningWithWarchild, on Oct 09 2017 - 14:38, said:

What we have hee-ya...

 

Is a faaaaailure...to communicate...

 

You gotta get your mind right, boy(s).

 

;)

 

PS - Bonus points if you can name the movie without Googling it!

 

Cool hand Luke of course.

WinningWithWarchild #33 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 19:43

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View PostLethalhavoc, on Oct 09 2017 - 12:41, said:

 

Cool hand Luke of course.

 

You win! :great:

Lethalhavoc #34 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 19:46

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View PostWinningWithWarchild, on Oct 09 2017 - 14:43, said:

 

You win! :great:

 

Without googling it, which Cool hand Luke star died recently?

If you don't remember his name, name another movie he stared in.



nuclearguy931 #35 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 19:48

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View Postmoogleslam, on Oct 09 2017 - 12:23, said:

 

There is no cheat that replaces or improves on skill and experience.  Any cheat can only provide a small and incremental improvement statistically, but can never replace the decision making of the human brain, which is necessary for purple stats.  Let's say Aimbot never missed a shot, and even overcame the RNG of the game.  Even that wouldn't result in purple stats because you still need to be in the right place at the right time, need to know when to help a teammate, take a shot for a teammate, retreat, defend, cap, scout, track vs dmg, etc.  No cheat is replacing human decision making.  Yes, they can provide an unfair advantage, and that's why they're banned, but they don't suddenly make every tomato a unicum, or even a good player a great player.

 

Saying it is "foolish in the extreme" doesn't make you right.  That's just hyperbole.

 

So, auto-aim and auto-activate mods don't help? They allow the player to continue playing without having to worry about aiming or activating repair kits, med kits or fire extinguisher which in turn allows the player to not have to think about applying them. But you're right, they still have to make a decision, and that's to cheat at an online game by installing them in the first place.

 

The gun direction mod allows the player to go to the side of a building, that a tank is hiding behind, and come around on the side that the turret is facing away from. Just another mod that removes the need to think or make a decision in game.

 

Or the reload timer, showing how much time another vehicle needs to reload before it can fire, I don't think an explanation is even needed for that one.



WinningWithWarchild #36 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 22:41

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View PostLethalhavoc, on Oct 09 2017 - 12:46, said:

 

Without googling it, which Cool hand Luke star died recently?

If you don't remember his name, name another movie he stared in.

 

I think I know who you're talking about but I never remember that guy's name but he was in several other movies during that time period.  He was in that Clint Eastwood movie (Lightfoot something?) where they find the schoolhouse with the money hidden at the end. Another Clint movie, where he was the double agent - Eiger Sanction.  He was in some John Wayne movies too but I can't remember the names - maybe Cahill.  Anyway, was it that guy?

APPSTATE83 #37 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 22:48

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the only time i felt blatant cheating had occurred was a battle i had on Malinovka a few years ago ...we were south spawn, i was in a slow tier 8 td and 4 or 5 of us were going to protect the west line, the battle had just started and we had just got behind the buildings when in a matter of a minute or two we were all blown to smithereens by their platooning artys. i've never had that happen before or since.....

WinningWithWarchild #38 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 22:51

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View Postnuclearguy931, on Oct 09 2017 - 12:48, said:

 

So, auto-aim and auto-activate mods don't help? They allow the player to continue playing without having to worry about aiming or activating repair kits, med kits or fire extinguisher which in turn allows the player to not have to think about applying them

 

Hold on a sec.  Is there a legal mod that allows you to activate an appropriate repair kit without having to hit a button?  I ask because I go cheap on my repair kits and have to hit like the 5 button to activate repair and then select another button to fix what's ailing my tank.  In the heat of battle, I hit like 3 buttons at a time and I mess that up a lot.  I don't want to cheat at all, but if there's something that could handle that for me without making me a "punk," I'd like to have it.  I'd say I'm too old to deal with all the buttons but 60% of the people that I talk with on here are older than I am.

 

The other 40% - don't know or care about Clint & John (breaks my heart)

 

RIP JW  :honoring:



WinningWithWarchild #39 Posted Oct 09 2017 - 23:00

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View PostAPPSTATE83, on Oct 09 2017 - 15:48, said:

the only time i felt blatant cheating had occurred was a battle i had on Malinovka a few years ago ...we were south spawn, i was in a slow tier 8 td and 4 or 5 of us were going to protect the west line, the battle had just started and we had just got behind the buildings when in a matter of a minute or two we were all blown to smithereens by their platooning artys. i've never had that happen before or since.....

 

To answer your signature question - It's the Pinkertons posse.

 

 

*Or are you talking about Butch & Sundance?



Lethalhavoc #40 Posted Oct 10 2017 - 00:32

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View PostWinningWithWarchild, on Oct 09 2017 - 17:41, said:

 

I think I know who you're talking about but I never remember that guy's name but he was in several other movies during that time period.  He was in that Clint Eastwood movie (Lightfoot something?) where they find the schoolhouse with the money hidden at the end. Another Clint movie, where he was the double agent - Eiger Sanction.  He was in some John Wayne movies too but I can't remember the names - maybe Cahill.  Anyway, was it that guy?

 

No, it's Harry Stanton, he passed away in Sept of this year at age 91.







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