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TSLA Disaster Musk Deathwatch #YOLO EVs Electric vehicles Quality Safety

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Klaatu_Nicto #161 Posted Nov 15 2017 - 19:20

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View Poststrenfoo, on Nov 15 2017 - 06:49, said:

 

You are in the very small minority.

 

But it's a fast minority.

 

Spoiler

 



indoctrinated #162 Posted Nov 15 2017 - 23:20

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View PostSPACEDUDE71, on Nov 15 2017 - 08:18, said:

They've not just considered outsourcing the manufacturing, they did it from the start. Lotus makes the cars in England.

According to Wikipedia: "The car is assembled at the Lotus factory in Hethel, England, with drivetrain components and body components supplied to the factory by Tesla. . . Tesla Motors' plant in Taiwan manufactures the motors and the Energy Storage Systems (ESS) was initially manufactured in Thailand during development and then moved to San Carlos, California, after production started. Chassis are manufactured in Norway. SOTIRA, in St. Meloir & Pouancé, France, create the RTM carbon fiber body panels. The Roadster's brakes and airbags are made by Siemens in Germany and crash testing was conducted at Siemens as well"

Confirmation of the Lotus relationship from Tesla here: http://www.teslamotors.com/blog2/?p=7

 I would say you are the idiot. Cause this seems like outsourcing to me. And this doesnt even consider the other 1000 parts like wires and switches and paint and such.

 Ive worked at ford motor company for 26 yrs. I know wthim talking about. Ive also been to a tesla plant.

 But i do love when morons like you show up and show what you really are.

Hey moron I'm not talking about a low-volume production model like the Roadster which sold a "colossal" 2,450 units worldwide. I don't give a [edited]if you worked at Ford or TSLA for 26+ years. Is clicking links too difficult of a task for your brain too? How come you can't counter any of my examples in the OP? If you're going to troll, put some effort into it, okay?

View PostKlaatu_Nicto, on Nov 15 2017 - 14:16, said:

 

Soundproofing?  Then you miss the sweetest sound in the world. 

Spoiler

 

Barebones is good.

Spoiler

 

Naw engine sounds are nice but I don't want road/wind noise in my car.



strenfoo #163 Posted Nov 15 2017 - 23:31

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View PostKlaatu_Nicto, on Nov 15 2017 - 12:20, said:

But it's a fast minority.

 

Go drive a Model S and then tell me if you still think that car is fast.  I'm no Tesla fanboy but once you go 0 to 60 in under 3 seconds in an EV, you'll think all production gas powered cars (outside of the most expensive exotics that is) are just plain slow.

 

View PostKlaatu_Nicto, on Nov 15 2017 - 12:16, said:

 

Soundproofing?  Then you miss the sweetest sound in the world. 

Spoiler

 

All I hear is a bunch of annoying noise.  Again, go drive a fast EV that's virtually silent and you'll think all those loud muscle cars are just toys.

 

Yeah, sorry.  Muscle cars do nothing for me.  They're just loud, slow cars that handle like crap.


Edited by strenfoo, Nov 15 2017 - 23:36.


indoctrinated #164 Posted Nov 15 2017 - 23:51

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View Poststrenfoo, on Nov 15 2017 - 18:31, said:

 

Go drive a Model S and then tell me if you still think that car is fast.  I'm no Tesla fanboy but once you go 0 to 60 in under 3 seconds in an EV, you'll think all production gas powered cars (outside of the most expensive exotics that is) are just plain slow.

 

 

All I hear is a bunch of annoying noise.  Again, go drive a fast EV that's virtually silent and you'll think all those loud muscle cars are just toys.

 

Yeah, sorry.  Muscle cars do nothing for me.  They're just loud, slow cars that handle like crap.

A vehicle purchase to me is much more than just mere 0-60 times or quarter mile time/trap speeds. The Model S is a piece of garbage quality wise (LOL @ the mold growth on the interior), the batteries lose capacity over time (due to the nature of lithium batteries) and the vehicle cannot be serviced independently OR make use of cheaper aftermarket parts (Tesla has a monopoly on that).



SpitYoYoMafia #165 Posted Nov 16 2017 - 01:33

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View Poststrenfoo, on Nov 15 2017 - 14:31, said:

 

Go drive a Model S and then tell me if you still think that car is fast.  I'm no Tesla fanboy but once you go 0 to 60 in under 3 seconds in an EV, you'll think all production gas powered cars (outside of the most expensive exotics that is) are just plain slow.

 

 

All I hear is a bunch of annoying noise.  Again, go drive a fast EV that's virtually silent and you'll think all those loud muscle cars are just toys.

 

Yeah, sorry.  Muscle cars do nothing for me.  They're just loud, slow cars that handle like crap.

 

Just going 0-60 fast is not that fast. That car can't compete at all in the higher divisions and it sure as hell can't compete with the big boys in longer drags. The dude that did it literally admitted this. He cannot enter higher divisions even at the quarter mile because he would be smoked.

 

Then you have to talk about handling, grip for track racing etc. If all it has is the power to go 0-60 really fast sorry but that's not that impressive. Especially since that was a GUTTED tesla meaning they took everything out of it. The standard tesla does not do 0-60 in 3 seconds.


Edited by SpitYoYoMafia, Nov 16 2017 - 01:38.


indoctrinated #166 Posted Nov 16 2017 - 02:01

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View PostSpitYoYoMafia, on Nov 15 2017 - 20:33, said:

 

Just going 0-60 fast is not that fast. That car can't compete at all in the higher divisions and it sure as hell can't compete with the big boys in longer drags. The dude that did it literally admitted this. He cannot enter higher divisions even at the quarter mile because he would be smoked.

 

Then you have to talk about handling, grip for track racing etc. If all it has is the power to go 0-60 really fast sorry but that's not that impressive. Especially since that was a GUTTED tesla meaning they took everything out of it. The standard tesla does not do 0-60 in 3 seconds.

 

He acts as if a 10+s (No Tesla has actually gotten a 10s or lower elapsed time) quarter mile is like a world record, or it's a special achievement. There are GT-Rs with special mods that have even faster quarter mile times. Observe this GT-R Alpha Omega:

Now this is insane. A quarter mile done in 7.70 with a trap speed of 186 MPH.

SpitYoYoMafia #167 Posted Nov 16 2017 - 02:09

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View Postindoctrinated, on Nov 15 2017 - 17:01, said:

 

He acts as if a 10+s (No Tesla has actually gotten a 10s or lower elapsed time) quarter mile is like a world record, or it's a special achievement. There are GT-Rs with special mods that have even faster quarter mile times. Observe this GT-R Alpha Omega:

Now this is insane. A quarter mile done in 7.70 with a trap speed of 186 MPH.

 

He doesn't understand that the car set a record for its division and being a production car which wasn't even entirely true because the thing was friggin gutted. It wasn't unmodified. On top of that you can't tune it to go faster.

 

I bet if they also controlled that front better they could have gone even faster


Edited by SpitYoYoMafia, Nov 16 2017 - 02:11.


indoctrinated #168 Posted Nov 16 2017 - 02:47

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View PostSpitYoYoMafia, on Nov 15 2017 - 21:09, said:

 

He doesn't understand that the car set a record for its division and being a production car which wasn't even entirely true because the thing was friggin gutted. It wasn't unmodified. On top of that you can't tune it to go faster.

 

I bet if they also controlled that front better they could have gone even faster

Yeah it's pretty dishonest to claim that 10.4s car to be a "production" model when they practically gutted the entire interior saving a surprising 400lbs of weight. There is no more performance that can be extracted- any mods such as more powerful electric motors would have to be built by Tesla. No aftermarket parts to further boost its performance.



Klaatu_Nicto #169 Posted Nov 16 2017 - 07:38

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View Poststrenfoo, on Nov 15 2017 - 14:31, said:

 

Go drive a Model S and then tell me if you still think that car is fast.  I'm no Tesla fanboy but once you go 0 to 60 in under 3 seconds in an EV, you'll think all production gas powered cars (outside of the most expensive exotics that is) are just plain slow.

 

 

All I hear is a bunch of annoying noise.  Again, go drive a fast EV that's virtually silent and you'll think all those loud muscle cars are just toys.

 

Yeah, sorry.  Muscle cars do nothing for me.  They're just loud, slow cars that handle like crap.

 

I love my loud SS with the handling package. G suit required to ride in my car. 

Klaatu_Nicto #170 Posted Nov 16 2017 - 19:08

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https://www.ericpete...udder-runs-dry/

indoctrinated #171 Posted Nov 17 2017 - 00:06

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View PostKlaatu_Nicto, on Nov 16 2017 - 14:08, said:

 

One thing that strikes me as odd is why are people supporting Tesla's use of EV credits? This has acted as a subsidy for rich people to buy the Model S/X as toys. Why aren't subsidies being given to people to say trade in their older model vehicles with less efficient/less clean burning engines for more modern vehicle designs that emit less pollution and have better fuel economy?

SpitYoYoMafia #172 Posted Nov 17 2017 - 00:18

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View Postindoctrinated, on Nov 16 2017 - 15:06, said:

 

One thing that strikes me as odd is why are people supporting Tesla's use of EV credits? This has acted as a subsidy for rich people to buy the Model S/X as toys. Why aren't subsidies being given to people to say trade in their older model vehicles with less efficient/less clean burning engines for more modern vehicle designs that emit less pollution and have better fuel economy?

 

Good question

indoctrinated #173 Posted Nov 17 2017 - 03:21

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View PostSpitYoYoMafia, on Nov 16 2017 - 19:18, said:

 

Good question

It comes back to a point I made earlier- what is the point of these electric vehicles? If people say "environmental concerns", all these do will simply shift the burden onto the electric grid instead of fossil fuels.
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3
According to the EIA America's sources of electricity in 2016 were:

Block Quote

 

Major energy sources and percent shares of U.S. electricity generation at utility-scale facilities in 2016

  • Natural gas = 33.8%
  • Coal = 30.4%
  • Nuclear = 19.7%
  • Renewables (total) = 14.9%

These EVs will simply force us to use more fossil fuels like natural gas and coal. We're just going to produce more pollution at electric power plants rather than vehicle tailpipes. Also consider that if we eliminate more gasoline/diesel vehicles, that will put more demand on the electric supply, jacking up the price of electricity for everyone (and making the "fill-up" on an EV more expensive).
This colossal screwup reminds me of the push for Ethanol in gas (gasohol) during the Bush admin. Ethanol is a terrible fuel source- contains 33% less energy per unit volume than gasoline and requires as much/or more energy to produce than you get when burning it. Corrodes fuel lines, and jacks up the price of food by diverting valuable corn crops for its production. If people would actually do some basic research we wouldn't be having these disasters.



Klaatu_Nicto #174 Posted Nov 17 2017 - 19:53

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Elon Musk unveils 'fastest production car ever' in shock announcement
http://www.telegraph...-manufacturing/

 

 



indoctrinated #175 Posted Nov 17 2017 - 23:55

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The Tesla Semi was recently "introduced". Lets see a rational analysis of the information that's been presented.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/11/head-class-8-semi-tesla-promises-green-trucking-alternative/

Block Quote

 The Semi’s specifications are straightforward, even if the economics surrounding the vehicle are not. For a currently undisclosed price, Tesla plans to sell a day cab semi-trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating of 80,000 pounds, with power provided by four Model 3 motors.

From this perch, a driver can pilot the truck for 300 or 500 miles, depending on variant, then dump 400 miles into the massive under-cab battery pack via a 30-minute charge courtesy of the currently hypothetical Megacharger network.

The company claims a 0-60 mph time of five seconds for an unburdened rig, or 20 seconds hauling a trailer bursting at the seams. On a 5-percent grade, Tesla says the Semi can maintain 65 mph.

Speed is nice, but cost is key for any operator. And unpacking the Semi’s economics proved difficult. The operational cost figure tossed out by Tesla is $1.26 per mile, with rival diesel models pegged at $1.51. Chalk up the difference to reduced fuel costs (Tesla claims a $200,000 fuel savings over the life of the vehicle, which is guaranteed for 1 million miles), plus reduced maintenance. As the model employs regenerative braking, Musk touted the Semi’s brake pads as having a “quasi-infinite lifespan.”
 

So, are you interested? If so, be prepared to wait until 2019 for production to begin, but the company will take your $5,000 reservation now. According to the terms and conditions of those reservations, “the timing of your order may depend on development, manufacturing and production schedules, among other factors.”

Given that the company’s main focus right now is clearing assembly and supply hurdles for the Model 3 sedan — which recently saw its production ramp-up pushed back by a quarter of a year — you might not want to set that calendar date in stone. No one knows where Tesla plans to build the thing, as its Fremont assembly plant won’t have the spare capacity after the company reaches its passenger car production goals. The company’s currently burning through all available cash to iron out issues delaying the ramp-up. (Maybe that’s where the $250,000 upfront price for the first 1,000 Roadsters comes in.)

As well, the Megacharger network exists only on paper. How the company plans to juggle all of these balls (and pay for them) at the same time remains a nagging question. Still, it won’t be a shock to see the automaker’s stock soar once trading opens this morning. That’s just how it goes in Teslaland.

Seems suspicious that there's no mention of price, how Tesla will actually build, service, and repair these new vehicles, battery costs, battery lifespans, maintenance costs and intervals etc etc. The operating cost that Tesla threw out also seems fishy:

Block Quote

 TTAC’s own Bozi Tatarevic takes issue with Tesla’s math, claiming that maintenance costs would need to fall nearly to nearly zero in order to reach the stated operational costs. Of course, the model’s mysterious price doesn’t help the calculations.

Typical Tesla- throw out some flashy numbers to impress uninformed viewers, but leave out crucial details. Trucking/fleet operators will not tolerate unreliable vehicles. Tesla as it is has a very checkered record with that regard. This vehicle currently as it stands is vaporware- a paper launch.
 

View PostKlaatu_Nicto, on Nov 17 2017 - 14:53, said:

Elon Musk unveils 'fastest production car ever' in shock announcement
http://www.telegraph...-manufacturing/

 

 

 

Glorified toy. Another low volume, niche product.



maxman1 #176 Posted Yesterday, 02:19 AM

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View Poststrenfoo, on Nov 15 2017 - 17:31, said:

All I hear is a bunch of annoying noise.  Again, go drive a fast EV that's virtually silent and you'll think all those loud muscle cars are just toys.

 

Steam cars are dead silent.



indoctrinated #177 Posted Today, 12:10 AM

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View PostKlaatu_Nicto, on Nov 17 2017 - 14:53, said:

Elon Musk unveils 'fastest production car ever' in shock announcement
http://www.telegraph...-manufacturing/

 

 

 

In any case the intro of the Semi and the new Roadster are simply a distraction from the real issue- Tesla's non-existent Model 3 production and sales. Only building 260 Model 3's in Q3 2017? That means they only built three cars per day, a literal drop in the bucket compared to the rate of 20,000 per month promised in July for the Model 3 launch. If anything the cynic in me says that these "deposits" are just another desperate move to raise cash. After all, this company lost 700 million in one quarter. Compare and contrast that to the launch of the new Nissan Leaf. That's already selling in decent quantities, and had no silly system of "deposits".




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