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TSLA Disaster Musk Deathwatch #YOLO EVs Electric vehicles Quality Safety

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indoctrinated #41 Posted Oct 18 2017 - 00:22

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View PostSpitYoYoMafia, on Oct 17 2017 - 19:09, said:

 

Yea I was telling that dude that China is the WORST example that you could use to call the future a "greener" one so to speak

 

Also maybe they switched the gas and the "break" pedals around :trollface:

 

btw your link returned null, use this one https://en.wikipedia..._the_Dome_(film)

 

edit: nevermind the link is bugged lol

 

also they should have thought about what they made the brake pedal out of from the get go, the vehicles are already heavy, might as well make it out of metal

On an oil blog that I occasionally visit it can be observed that China's oil (and thus gasoline, diesel, kerosene, etc) usage is increasing every year, not decreasing (despite all the hype of EVs)

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Chinese July consumption up 690K bpd over 2016’s July. That’s about 6%

Chinese total consumption 11.67 mbpd July. YTD the average monthly increase has been 550K bpd, which compares with 210K bpd for the same period 2016.

 The URL link thing seems to be rather buggy when special characters get involved for whatever reason.
 

That pedal is actually the accelerator pedal, not the actual "brake" pedal. This is a HUGE safety problem because what if it happened in the middle of you driving, or especially merging on a busy highway? Scary part is we don't know how many more of these dangerously defective Tesla products are running amok.



SpitYoYoMafia #42 Posted Oct 18 2017 - 00:26

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View Postindoctrinated, on Oct 17 2017 - 15:22, said:

On an oil blog that I occasionally visit it can be observed that China's oil (and thus gasoline, diesel, kerosene, etc) usage is increasing every year, not decreasing (despite all the hype of EVs)

 The URL link thing seems to be rather buggy when special characters get involved for whatever reason.
 

That pedal is actually the accelerator pedal, not the actual "brake" pedal. This is a HUGE safety problem because what if it happened in the middle of you driving, or especially merging on a busy highway? Scary part is we don't know how many more of these dangerously defective Tesla products are running amok.

 

No I was just making a joke :)

 

That being said I did some research and it's supposed to snap if too much pressure is applied.

 

The issue is that there wasn't a stopper to catch it and prevent it from going more than 100% which adds extra tension on the pedal and caused it to snap.

 

It's actually just a really simple mechanical failure but for a 100 thousand dollar car I would expect a hell of a lot more



indoctrinated #43 Posted Oct 18 2017 - 00:32

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View PostSpitYoYoMafia, on Oct 17 2017 - 19:26, said:

 

No I was just making a joke :)

 

That being said I did some research and it's supposed to snap if too much pressure is applied.

 

The issue is that there wasn't a stopper to catch it and prevent it from going more than 100% which adds extra tension on the pedal and caused it to snap.

 

It's actually just a really simple mechanical failure but for a 100 thousand dollar car I would expect a hell of a lot more

I see. Didn't catch on lol.
I dunno- I've never seen this happen to other automakers. Even though I have a grudge against Honda I've never seen disastrous safety defects like the broken pillar and this gas pedal. It's also curious that for an expensive car they don't use more expensive floor mounted gas pedals like on some Infiniti models.

 



maxman1 #44 Posted Oct 18 2017 - 00:34

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View PostSpitYoYoMafia, on Oct 09 2017 - 19:45, said:

That being said the newer models are 30k.

 

With massive subsidies, tax breaks and rebates to bring the price down even that low.

 

And this isn't even scratching the surface on the practicality of using an electric car in the same fashion as a gasoline or diesel vehicle.



indoctrinated #45 Posted Oct 18 2017 - 00:51

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View Postmaxman1, on Oct 17 2017 - 19:34, said:

 

With massive subsidies, tax breaks and rebates to bring the price down even that low.

 

And this isn't even scratching the surface on the practicality of using an electric car in the same fashion as a gasoline or diesel vehicle.

That subject is even more hilarious with respect to Tesla:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-11/its-confirmed-without-government-subsidies-tesla-sales-implode
 

Zerohedge

 in 2015 Tesla sold a total of 2,738 cars in Denmark. In 2016 the number dropped by 94% to just 176 units.

 

A sales disaster- a drop of 94% after gov't incentives were dropped

SpitYoYoMafia #46 Posted Oct 18 2017 - 01:19

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View Postmaxman1, on Oct 17 2017 - 15:34, said:

 

With massive subsidies, tax breaks and rebates to bring the price down even that low.

 

And this isn't even scratching the surface on the practicality of using an electric car in the same fashion as a gasoline or diesel vehicle.

 

Also as 120 posted if these things crash ooooohhhh boooyyy. . .

indoctrinated #47 Posted Oct 18 2017 - 01:37

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View PostSpitYoYoMafia, on Oct 17 2017 - 20:19, said:

 

Also as 120 posted if these things crash ooooohhhh boooyyy. . .

 

I dunno if battery fires are all that common from being rear ended. I don't think it's proven to be that big of a deal with large quantities of hybrids like the Prius, Highlander Hybrid, Q50 Hybrid in service, etc etc. I believe automakers take special precautions to minimize that risk.

It's weird that this thread hasn't been raided by the Tesla Defense Force. I'd expect any criticism of Tesla or Dear Leader Musk to be shouted down.

Worland #48 Posted Oct 18 2017 - 01:50

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Being on a survey panel for auto makers has scared me to death over the years. Some of their surveys make me wonder how we survive getting to work everyday. Especially Toyota. Every survey from them talks about our opinion of their various scandals, accidents and coverups. Only company that seems more worried about reputation than the actual safety of their vehicles. But, have yet to take a survey for Tesla.

riff_ #49 Posted Oct 18 2017 - 03:41

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That's is a lot of posts/words and pictures about Tesla.

SpitYoYoMafia #50 Posted Oct 18 2017 - 05:05

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View Postindoctrinated, on Oct 17 2017 - 15:51, said:

That subject is even more hilarious with respect to Tesla:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-11/its-confirmed-without-government-subsidies-tesla-sales-implode
 

 

A sales disaster- a drop of 94% after gov't incentives were dropped

 

Speaking of subsidies, did you know that the reason why china hasn't moved forward with being greener is because they keep giving the coal companies subsidies instead of weeding them out and letting the free market take over?

Son__Of__Anarchy #51 Posted Oct 18 2017 - 14:53

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View PostSleeper_has_Awaken, on Oct 10 2017 - 01:28, said:

Probably BS, the must of done some crazy driving and bent the frame for that to happen.

 

dont be stupid, if you notice, the edges of that crack are PAINTED in the car's color.. means it WAS cracked already before get paint job done even.. if the crack happened after delivery, the edges would be in metal' s color, not paint's..

120mm_he #52 Posted Oct 18 2017 - 20:54

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Tesla fires up to 1200 workers for 'poor performance' so they didn't have to report it to the labor board. :trollface:

 

https://www.inc.com/...erformance.html

 

View Postindoctrinated, on Oct 17 2017 - 19:37, said:

 

I dunno if battery fires are all that common from being rear ended. I don't think it's proven to be that big of a deal with large quantities of hybrids like the Prius, Highlander Hybrid, Q50 Hybrid in service, etc etc. I believe automakers take special precautions to minimize that risk.

It's weird that this thread hasn't been raided by the Tesla Defense Force. I'd expect any criticism of Tesla or Dear Leader Musk to be shouted down.

 

I'm less worried about a crash brewing up a tesla over just bad manufacturing defects doing the same. I also don't trust a company that only operates successfully with massive government subsidies to the tune of 5 billion. Yes you the taxpayer are actually paying for someone elses crappy electric car toys.

 

http://www.investors...subsidizing-it/



indoctrinated #53 Posted Oct 18 2017 - 22:41

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View PostWorland, on Oct 17 2017 - 20:50, said:

Being on a survey panel for auto makers has scared me to death over the years. Some of their surveys make me wonder how we survive getting to work everyday. Especially Toyota. Every survey from them talks about our opinion of their various scandals, accidents and coverups. Only company that seems more worried about reputation than the actual safety of their vehicles. But, have yet to take a survey for Tesla.

Modern vehicles IMO are definitely more poorly built on average than the 90s.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/08/looks-like-ford-problem-nuts/
Tons of ridiculous crap going on with something as basic as the lug nuts that hold the wheels onto the wheel hub (and your car). If automakers are cutting corners there, where else are they doing practices like this? Crazy that some people there reported that they even needed to cut the lug nuts off using a power chisel, risking damage to the wheel studs.

View PostSpitYoYoMafia, on Oct 18 2017 - 00:05, said:

 

Speaking of subsidies, did you know that the reason why china hasn't moved forward with being greener is because they keep giving the coal companies subsidies instead of weeding them out and letting the free market take over?

I've heard China in general is an economy where the gov't heavily subsidies local industries. They also require foreign companies to set up "joint ventures" with local Chinese companies too.

View Post120mm_he, on Oct 18 2017 - 15:54, said:

Tesla fires up to 1200 workers for 'poor performance' so they didn't have to report it to the labor board. :trollface:

 

https://www.inc.com/...erformance.html

 

 

I'm less worried about a crash brewing up a tesla over just bad manufacturing defects doing the same. I also don't trust a company that only operates successfully with massive government subsidies to the tune of 5 billion. Yes you the taxpayer are actually paying for someone elses crappy electric car toys.

 

http://www.investors...subsidizing-it/

Yeah that mass firing is very suspicious. I don't trust Tesla period- that mass firing of employees, anti-consumer practices with regards to repairs/maintenance/aftermarket parts for their vehicles, their cavalier attitude towards safety, etc etc etc.

Tesla is a company that would die without government assistance (and electric cars in general). Investors of Tesla are also pretty insane if these issues don't phase them one bit. How can Tesla have a higher market capitalization than GM despite the fact that I don't think they've ever made a profit?

120mm_he #54 Posted Oct 18 2017 - 23:04

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View Postindoctrinated, on Oct 18 2017 - 16:41, said:

Tesla is a company that would die without government assistance (and electric cars in general). Investors of Tesla are also pretty insane if these issues don't phase them one bit. How can Tesla have a higher market capitalization than GM despite the fact that I don't think they've ever made a profit?

 

Tesla was born off the premature push to replace fossil fuel technology with 'green' technology by the previous administration which poured hundreds of billions or more into said technology and elon musk being no fool got his share out of the feeding trough. Whilst this sounds good alas 'green' tech is still in its infancy and no where near being able to be deployed on a level to replace coal and oil powered tech. It will happen eventually but not for decades or more and with the advances in scrubber technology its rapidly becoming a non issue as you can get coal plants to near 95% emission reduction over a non scrubbed plant. Expect green tech to be a supplement to coal power for a long time to come. As to china and its coal power its a complicated feudal setup with control over how they run their plants done on a near individual plant level. Well china has scrubber tech and has laws to use them but in the feudal setup each plant manager more or less says f the laws and pockets the money that is saved from not running the scrubbers. China is dying from poorly run infrastructure rife with severe corruption at literally every level. I give china about another 20 years before it implodes.



SpitYoYoMafia #55 Posted Oct 19 2017 - 00:15

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View Post120mm_he, on Oct 18 2017 - 11:54, said:

Tesla fires up to 1200 workers for 'poor performance' so they didn't have to report it to the labor board. :trollface:

 

https://www.inc.com/...erformance.html

 

 

I'm less worried about a crash brewing up a tesla over just bad manufacturing defects doing the same. I also don't trust a company that only operates successfully with massive government subsidies to the tune of 5 billion. Yes you the taxpayer are actually paying for someone elses crappy electric car toys.

 

http://www.investors...subsidizing-it/

 

I would never work for them. . . I hope they realize that people won't want to work for a company that fires its workers so easily

indoctrinated #56 Posted Oct 19 2017 - 01:02

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View Post120mm_he, on Oct 18 2017 - 18:04, said:

 

Tesla was born off the premature push to replace fossil fuel technology with 'green' technology by the previous administration which poured hundreds of billions or more into said technology and elon musk being no fool got his share out of the feeding trough. Whilst this sounds good alas 'green' tech is still in its infancy and no where near being able to be deployed on a level to replace coal and oil powered tech. It will happen eventually but not for decades or more and with the advances in scrubber technology its rapidly becoming a non issue as you can get coal plants to near 95% emission reduction over a non scrubbed plant. Expect green tech to be a supplement to coal power for a long time to come. As to china and its coal power its a complicated feudal setup with control over how they run their plants done on a near individual plant level. Well china has scrubber tech and has laws to use them but in the feudal setup each plant manager more or less says f the laws and pockets the money that is saved from not running the scrubbers. China is dying from poorly run infrastructure rife with severe corruption at literally every level. I give china about another 20 years before it implodes.

I believe the use of ethanol as a fuel source was spawned by the Bush administration. So we have two colossal failures by the previous two admins w.r.t. energy. Ethanol is a trash fuel source that is an energy loser (more energy required to produce it than you recover from using it) , uses valuable corn crops to produce the stuff, corrodes fuel lines in cars, AND gets you 25%~ less gas mileage if you use E85. I doubt power sources like Solar, Wind, etc will overtake hydrocarbon fuels (especially liquids like gasoline, diesel, kerosene). In previous posts I mentioned a big problem with electric vehicles- the batteries add a colossal amount of weight. Don't forget that charging a car battery takes hours while you can fill up a car's gas tank in a couple of minutes. Can battery technology be improved to make these vehicles sustainable?



indoctrinated #57 Posted Oct 19 2017 - 23:09

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The drama with Tesla is just too hilarious:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/oct/19/tesla-factory-workers-discrimination-claim-race-lgbt-elon-musk

Block Quote

 

Soon after he started working on the assembly line at Tesla, Jorge Ferro said he was taunted for being gay and threatened with violence. “Watch your back,” a supervisor warned after mocking his clothes for being “gay tight”, Ferro said.

The harassment didn’t stop after he reported it to a manager, and days after he made a second complaint, Ferro was punished, according to his account. An HR representative took away Ferro’s badge, claiming that he had an “injury” that prevented him from working and saying there’s “no place for handicapped people at Tesla”, he alleged.

 Wasn't expecting something like this to happen to Tesla, out of all the automakers.
 

Block Quote

 Consumer Reports released reliability scores on Thursday for a number of new cars, many of which they haven’t seen yet, like the new Kia Stinger. The organization gave the Stinger an “average” score, basing this in part on drivers’ experiences with current Kia models. CR gave the same score to the Tesla Model 3, which they have also not driven, prompting a lengthy, angry statement from the automaker, who has contended for some time now that CR has singled them out for bad coverage. CR has emphatically denied the charge.

 
https://jalopnik.com/heres-why-tesla-is-furious-with-consumer-reports-over-i-1819689234

If anything I think CR is pro-Tesla biased. If it were up to me, I'd give Tesla the worst possible scores especially after seeing their corporate practices and atrocious quality of their vehicles.

120mm_he #58 Posted Oct 19 2017 - 23:23

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View Postindoctrinated, on Oct 18 2017 - 19:02, said:

Can battery technology be improved to make these vehicles sustainable?

 

Yes in part. I think for the foreseeable future hybrids will be the way to go as we have plenty of oil and coal to turn into fuel as long as we can continue to increase efficiency and extend the supply. However I don't know if we will see batteries that are as efficient as gasoline used for cars due to having too high an energy density. You see what already happens to lithium batteries due to to having such high capacity in a tiny form factor and they want to make it even more dense? Lulz you get to that point and every car will be a potential jihadi device by default just waiting for the cells to get shorted or damaged.



SpitYoYoMafia #59 Posted Oct 20 2017 - 02:57

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View Postindoctrinated, on Oct 19 2017 - 14:09, said:

The drama with Tesla is just too hilarious:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/oct/19/tesla-factory-workers-discrimination-claim-race-lgbt-elon-musk

 Wasn't expecting something like this to happen to Tesla, out of all the automakers.
 

 
https://jalopnik.com/heres-why-tesla-is-furious-with-consumer-reports-over-i-1819689234

If anything I think CR is pro-Tesla biased. If it were up to me, I'd give Tesla the worst possible scores especially after seeing their corporate practices and atrocious quality of their vehicles.

 

If a person is working for you and doing the best that they can, what does how they identify themselves have anything to do with it? They are making you a lot of money aren't they?!?!?

indoctrinated #60 Posted Oct 20 2017 - 23:01

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View PostSpitYoYoMafia, on Oct 16 2017 - 20:42, said:

This just sounds like a bad idea, sure a general purpose truck that just moves goods in town would be okay but a semi? Uuuuhhh, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell you that it's probably not a good idea and just using a basic mechanical system that handles stress well is better.

I've found some more information that elaborates on why this is a bad idea:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/06/researchers-cast-doubt-teslas-electric-big-rig/#more-1573040

Block Quote

 

“The challenge is on par in difficulty level with electric airplanes,” said Venkat Viswanathan, who crafted the study with colleague Shashank Sripad.

There isn’t much known about the looming big rig, except that it will use the same motors as the upcoming Model 3 sedan. Based on this information, and using the current Tesla standard of a battery pack generating 243 watt-hours per kilogram, the researchers examined all of the factors affecting transport trucks: anticipated load, distance traveled, aerodynamic drag, etc.
 

A typical semi covers between 300 and 600 miles a day. To cover 600 miles without charging, the truck would need a 14-ton battery, the study claims. Boost the range to 900 miles, and the battery would tip the scales at 22 tons. While battery prices are trending downwards, current prices state the packs would carry a price tag of $290,000 to $450,000 alone, minus the cost of the overall vehicle. Compare that to the price of a regular diesel semi — roughly $120,000.

Because federal laws limit a truck’s gross weight to 40 tons, a Tesla big rig configured in such a manner would likely only be able to haul 9 tons of cargo — far less than the average payload of 16 tons. When you add to that the inflated price, you’re left wondering what shipping company would pay for such a vehicle. Yes, electric vehicles are touted as having lower ownership and maintenance costs, but such a truck would have to be on the road for a very long time before making up the difference. As well, there’s the issue of recharging times.

 We can already see that this Class 7/8 Truck is doomed to fail before it begins production (if that even happens, LOL). A 28,000 pound battery costing 300,000$+ !?.  This is why Cummins had to add a diesel engine on board to act as a generator.
 

View Post120mm_he, on Oct 19 2017 - 18:23, said:

 

Yes in part. I think for the foreseeable future hybrids will be the way to go as we have plenty of oil and coal to turn into fuel as long as we can continue to increase efficiency and extend the supply. However I don't know if we will see batteries that are as efficient as gasoline used for cars due to having too high an energy density. You see what already happens to lithium batteries due to to having such high capacity in a tiny form factor and they want to make it even more dense? Lulz you get to that point and every car will be a potential jihadi device by default just waiting for the cells to get shorted or damaged.

Some fairly big hurdles to making a "post-lithium" battery I think are scalability, ease of production, energy density, weight, etc etc. Dunno if it's really possible right now but I haven't really looked into it. I'm actually interested in gasoline fuel cell technology, advanced combustion technologies like HCCI and Adiabatic combustion.






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