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Matchmaking broken fair play

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CTDan #1 Posted Oct 22 2017 - 18:46

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So, I've been hearing both sides of the issue of how the Match Maker is performing.  I'm going to start using this forum post as a way to track the "fairness" of the Match Maker.

 

So, firstly, let me explain my madness as it relates to my thought process as it pertains to how I think a game is going to go.  I admit, doesn't always go the way I'd expect, but, for the most part, I'm pretty on.

 

So, I do use XVM, but only for getting an idea of hard I have to work to carry, and even then, I'll know very early on, if we have a snowball's chance in hell to win.

 

I'll firstly just look at the number of players on each team to see how many players with WN8 rates in 4 digits.  Which ever team has the most, gets a +1.

Then, I compare the number of games a player has on each team.  I use a limiter of 5k games and less.  Whoever has the least gets another +1

If arty is present in a game, I'll also compare their WN8 ratings.  I'll award an +1 to which ever team seems to have the higher WN8 rating for Arty.

Lastly, I'll check the number of players with win percentages in the red.  Again, which ever team has the least gets a +1.

 

Of course, there will be ties, in which case no one gets that point.  And also, I might award a "special" if one team has a Unicum or something like that.  Totally subjective, but for my purposes, it works.

 

So, here's a screen shot of the 1st of two games I played this morning (back to back with the same tank):

 

https://ibb.co/iDawo6

 

Sorry, couldn't get the forum to accept the pic link but, hopefully this will suffice.

 

And here's the 2nd link:

 

https://ibb.co/h5JMMR

 

 

So PLEASE tell me how these are anywhere near "fair and balanced" games.  I recall reading something in the forums about how the MM will "try" to ensure that no two games in a row will be total mismatches.  WRONG!!

 

And WG is wondering why they get so many complaints about the MM???

 

Appreciate your thoughts!

 

Of, and fyi, both games were blow outs and losses.



_Schneller_Heinz_ #2 Posted Oct 22 2017 - 18:51

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View PostCTDan, on Oct 22 2017 - 18:46, said:

So, I've been hearing both sides of the issue of how the Match Maker is performing.  I'm going to start using this forum post as a way to track the "fairness" of the Match Maker.

 

So, firstly, let me explain my madness as it relates to my thought process as it pertains to how I think a game is going to go.  I admit, doesn't always go the way I'd expect, but, for the most part, I'm pretty on.

 

So, I do use XVM, but only for getting an idea of hard I have to work to carry, and even then, I'll know very early on, if we have a snowball's chance in hell to win.

 

I'll firstly just look at the number of players on each team to see how many players with WN8 rates in 4 digits.  Which ever team has the most, gets a +1.

Then, I compare the number of games a player has on each team.  I use a limiter of 5k games and less.  Whoever has the least gets another +1

If arty is present in a game, I'll also compare their WN8 ratings.  I'll award an +1 to which ever team seems to have the higher WN8 rating for Arty.

Lastly, I'll check the number of players with win percentages in the red.  Again, which ever team has the least gets a +1.

 

Of course, there will be ties, in which case no one gets that point.  And also, I might award a "special" if one team has a Unicum or something like that.  Totally subjective, but for my purposes, it works.

 

So, here's a screen shot of the 1st of two games I played this morning (back to back with the same tank):

 

https://ibb.co/iDawo6

 

Sorry, couldn't get the forum to accept the pic link but, hopefully this will suffice.

 

And here's the 2nd link:

 

https://ibb.co/h5JMMR

 

 

So PLEASE tell me how these are anywhere near "fair and balanced" games.  I recall reading something in the forums about how the MM will "try" to ensure that no two games in a row will be total mismatches.  WRONG!!

 

And WG is wondering why they get so many complaints about the MM???

 

Appreciate your thoughts!

 

Of, and fyi, both games were blow outs and losses.

 

Newsflash!

The skill level of the individual players is not taking in account on the match making.

You have to suck it up and carry.

 


Edited by _Schneller_Heinz_, Oct 22 2017 - 18:52.


DUKE_AUTY #3 Posted Oct 22 2017 - 19:00

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Webster's has a very good definition of "random".

 

Look it up.

 

XVM is the Devil.



Viper69 #4 Posted Oct 22 2017 - 19:03

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Agree, stop using XvM it’s a greater plague on this game than artillery.

Mudman24 #5 Posted Oct 22 2017 - 19:05

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So you are going to use arbitrary numbers to assign arbitrary points to prove something? Ok. I look forward to your arbitrary conclusion.

Kamahl1234 #6 Posted Oct 22 2017 - 19:08

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OP, where did you read the false information that MM takes player skill into account? Also why do you think they would use a third party metric for measuring this skill?

 

MM balances tanks only. That's it. It's called randoms remember. 



CTDan #7 Posted Oct 22 2017 - 19:11

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As I expected...it's all my fault.

 

All I can tell you is I played 4 more games with this tank and using my "arbitrary" process, I lost 3 of the 4 games, as my prophetic process predicted. 

 

No real reason to get upset any more, as I know that there's no way to win most of those games.  I'll attempt to be in the top 5 of damage doled out, but it won't matter.

 

But then again, what do I know I'm an admitted noob.



Mudman24 #8 Posted Oct 22 2017 - 19:14

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Random is not balanced. It is fair though. We all get the same randomness. So if you consistently do a lot to influence battles, you will win more battles. It’s that simple.

VooDooKobra #9 Posted Oct 22 2017 - 19:24

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what they said was going to be balanced was the vehicles, they never said anything about balancing player skill.  

 

and on that note when the heck did fair and balanced become a thing in pvp?  looking back at the games i loved there sure wasn't fair and balanced in any of those


Edited by VooDooKobra, Oct 22 2017 - 19:25.


Steeljaw_MajT #10 Posted Oct 22 2017 - 19:35

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I see you conspicuously left out the after action report so we couldn't judge how your team preforms (you are on your team aren't you).  If you aren't carrying your own weight why do you expect your team to carry you every game?  You want to win win, do better,  it is a simple as that.  

Dogsoldier6 #11 Posted Oct 22 2017 - 19:35

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Play online solitaire if you want fair and balanced......................................

Kamahl1234 #12 Posted Oct 22 2017 - 19:41

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View PostCTDan, on Oct 22 2017 - 18:11, said:

As I expected...it's all my fault.

 

All I can tell you is I played 4 more games with this tank and using my "arbitrary" process, I lost 3 of the 4 games, as my prophetic process predicted. 

 

No real reason to get upset any more, as I know that there's no way to win most of those games.  I'll attempt to be in the top 5 of damage doled out, but it won't matter.

 

But then again, what do I know I'm an admitted noob.

 

Dude, small sample sizes are the biggest problem with your evidence. I could play 4 battles, see wildly different results from same match-ups, and declare that the lower skill teams get an advantage in MM. You actually need hundreds if not thousands of battles to properly show relations of these things.

 

One example of this was a player who wanted to ague how well the win prediction system XVM has works, and amazingly found it to be pretty inaccurate after ~750 games of testing. Player skill (in WN8) is only displayed as average, not recent, and it's also not the only major contributor to a win or loss. There's a number of major things that lead to whether or not you'd win based on predictions, such as tanks on the team, individual ability per tank, individual ability per map, positioning of the teams, teamwork of the teams, event things down to real-life events that may distract players at crucial moments. 

 

Stuff is complex. 

 

 

No reason to be a noob and defeatist. I win most of my games. I get the same teams you do. There's a reason for that, and part of it is that I don't let silly things like WN8 dictate my morale. The only single constant in your battles is you. Improve your abilities and viewpoints, and you simply win more. It's much the same as real life. You don't get that high paying job by just sitting at minimum wage and complaining that it takes effort to get a better job, you try to improve marketable skills and put in effort to be a better employee, and you get better jobs. Tanks works the same way for wins. You only will see ~45% or so win rate by being the level you're at. Playing better wins more, and your skills in-game have a lot to do with it. 


Edited by Kamahl1234, Oct 22 2017 - 19:43.


Coffee_ #13 Posted Oct 22 2017 - 19:42

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Not to be the on the wrong side of this if there really is one but... and there always is one.
I have seen thousands of matches where one team is stacked with outstanding players while the other is filled with average to below average players.

I see this OVER and OVER. If this is random selection of just tanks why is this happening so much?

I heard clans like to count down and click to try and get in the same match but the same team?
It would be interesting to log a fairly large sample of the match ups based on player skill and see just how random that is.

 


Edited by Coffee_, Oct 22 2017 - 19:43.


Michael_Cochrane_2017 #14 Posted Oct 22 2017 - 19:43

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View PostMudman24, on Oct 22 2017 - 12:14, said:

Random is not balanced. It is fair though. We all get the same randomness. So if you consistently do a lot to influence battles, you will win more battles. It’s that simple.

 

I challenge the "random" comment...if battles were truly random then the law of averages would mean I should spawn on various maps equally or close enough. Funny though, 9/10 times I spawn at the same end/side over and over and over again. In addition, the majority of battles now are encounter vs standard...I bet I've only played 10 standard battles in the last 100. 

For example: Murovanka; without fail, I've spawned on the north side ONCE in the past week vs 50 or more on the south.

Random? lol...NFW.

I read that they revamped the "roles" of various tanks in battles...I see the old adage applies: tier iv tier v and tier vi are merely easy kills, points for tier's vii and viii.....

Albinosmurfs #15 Posted Oct 22 2017 - 19:45

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View PostCTDan, on Oct 22 2017 - 19:11, said:

As I expected...it's all my fault.

 

All I can tell you is I played 4 more games with this tank and using my "arbitrary" process, I lost 3 of the 4 games, as my prophetic process predicted. 

 

No real reason to get upset any more, as I know that there's no way to win most of those games.  I'll attempt to be in the top 5 of damage doled out, but it won't matter.

 

But then again, what do I know I'm an admitted noob.

 

You should google self fulfilling prophecy.

Mudman24 #16 Posted Oct 22 2017 - 19:48

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View PostMichael_Cochrane_2017, on Oct 22 2017 - 12:43, said:

 

I challenge the "random" comment...if battles were truly random then the law of averages would mean I should spawn on various maps equally or close enough. Funny though, 9/10 times I spawn at the same end/side over and over and over again. In addition, the majority of battles now are encounter vs standard...I bet I've only played 10 standard battles in the last 100. 

For example: Murovanka; without fail, I've spawned on the north side ONCE in the past week vs 50 or more on the south.

Random? lol...NFW.

I read that they revamped the "roles" of various tanks in battles...I see the old adage applies: tier iv tier v and tier vi are merely easy kills, points for tier's vii and viii.....

I’m sure you track this data and have replays to prove you spawn 50:1 on the south side of the map. Making up numbers and exaggerating doesn’t prove anything. 



Dogsoldier6 #17 Posted Oct 22 2017 - 19:59

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View PostMichael_Cochrane_2017, on Oct 22 2017 - 19:43, said:

 

I challenge the "random" comment...if battles were truly random then the law of averages would mean I should spawn on various maps equally or close enough. Funny though, 9/10 times I spawn at the same end/side over and over and over again. In addition, the majority of battles now are encounter vs standard...I bet I've only played 10 standard battles in the last 100. Turn off Encounter, problem solved..............

For example: Murovanka; without fail, I've spawned on the north side ONCE in the past week vs 50 or more on the south.

Random? lol...NFW.

I read that they revamped the "roles" of various tanks in battles...I see the old adage applies: tier iv tier v and tier vi are merely easy kills, points for tier's vii and viii..... Tier 4s NEVER see tier 7-8...... Tier 5s never see more then THREE tier 7s the rest are tier 5-6...... Tier 6s never see more then THREE tier 8s the rest are tier 6-7...............  So somehow THREE tier 8s or THREE tier 7s are just cutting through the hordes of lower tier tanks with ease. Yea right sing me another sad song :facepalm:

 



bockscar43 #18 Posted Oct 22 2017 - 20:00

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View PostCTDan, on Oct 22 2017 - 19:11, said:

As I expected...it's all my fault.

 

All I can tell you is I played 4 more games with this tank and using my "arbitrary" process, I lost 3 of the 4 games, as my prophetic process predicted. 

 

No real reason to get upset any more, as I know that there's no way to win most of those games.  I'll attempt to be in the top 5 of damage doled out, but it won't matter.

 

But then again, what do I know I'm an admitted noob.

Hang in there troop, and watch wots kill itself.........just my thoughts.



bockscar43 #19 Posted Oct 22 2017 - 20:01

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View PostCTDan, on Oct 22 2017 - 19:11, said:

As I expected...it's all my fault.

 

All I can tell you is I played 4 more games with this tank and using my "arbitrary" process, I lost 3 of the 4 games, as my prophetic process predicted. 

 

No real reason to get upset any more, as I know that there's no way to win most of those games.  I'll attempt to be in the top 5 of damage doled out, but it won't matter.

 

But then again, what do I know I'm an admitted noob.

Hang in there troop, and watch wots kill itself.........just my thoughts.



Shortcult #20 Posted Oct 22 2017 - 20:10

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I know my problem with the current MM is perceptual, it SEEMS to me that there are too many matches with three arty on either team and no heavies at all.  Paradise for the arty I'm sure.

 

I have zero data to back it up, zero.  Therefore I know it is just my perception.  Starting to see where I am going OP?







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