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[Supertest] Soviet TD Changes


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CabbageMechanic #1 Posted Oct 26 2017 - 19:40

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Next up for Supertest: big changes to the lesser-used Soviet TD Branch.

 

Details: Object 263 moves to Tier IX (with the same armor), SU-122-54 moves to Tier VIII, SU-101 – to Tier VII (we’ll take away its M62-C2 as it’s too powerful for Tier VII), and SU-101M1 will be removed altogether.



At Tier X there will be a completely new vehicle with a rear-positioned gun - the Object 268 Version 4. This vehicle has excellent front armor, with high alpha-damage and excellent armor penetration. Gun traverse angles allow this tank to “tank” , the Variant has 24 degrees of aim, 12 per each side. Disadvantages: Gun handling is ideal for middle range/brawling – it will be difficult to fire effectively at 400 m.  In addition, the DPM is below average to compensate for its quality alpha and pen.  The mobility of the vehicle is fair - reasonably quick in a straight line but slow to turn.  So as a result we have a fire support vehicle, intended for group play, which hits hard and then protects itself and its allies with its armor.

 


 

Note: the characteristics and changes are not final and are subject to change by the results of upcoming super tests. Stay tuned and we’ll share more info!



Demonic_Angel_of_Death #2 Posted Oct 26 2017 - 19:45

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They took a tier 10 TD that was actually different by not having the typical 750 alpha gun, and moved it down and replaced it with a generic alpha gun.

It's like what they did with the tier 6 light tanks all over again... You get a 75mm, and you get a 75mm, you all get 75mm's in "different flavors"... :sceptic:

 

There are 7 (8 If you include WT Auf E-100 that had the 150mm) tier 10 TD's with 750 alpha guns, we don't need an 8th (9th). It's been done before, it's been done entirely too much before actually, and this just isn't even dynamic gameplay anymore, this is static "Derp people for 750 all day everyday" gameplay. Which gets old...

 

And I'm just going to point out... In clan wars our clan would take a current 263 over a 268 anyday as if we wanted a 750 alpha derp TD there are better ones for that (T110E3)... The 263 has a place for being accurate and having DPM, it's a in-between TD between a Strv 103B and a typical 750 TD...

 

I rarely see Obj. 268's in battle anymore either, lots of 704's, but no 268's... It's more rare than the 263 because it is frankly still pretty bad...

 

Please ensure your feedback complies with the WCFR Rules - CM

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by CabbageMechanic, Oct 27 2017 - 20:30.


lightball20 #3 Posted Oct 26 2017 - 19:46

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Will those who own SU-101M1 keep it? Or is that undecided yet?

LeaveIT2Beaver #4 Posted Oct 26 2017 - 19:51

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I stopped grinding this line when the 152 rumors started. So glad I did.  I think I need to let the dust settle before I choose a direction.


Edited by LeaveIT2Beaver, Oct 27 2017 - 04:04.


Al_Scarface_Capone_ #5 Posted Oct 26 2017 - 19:53

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The 263 should stay at tier 10? Just make it more appealing to the community?

Give it a bit more side armor?

Some gun depression?

Maybe some lower plate armor?

Higher alpha as hitting for 450 is depressing and really discourages players honestly :sceptic:

 

I'm not looking forward to this new TD, It just doesn't appeal to the play style that the 263 has...

Making it a brawling TD with a 21.4 second reload is not something when you could've had a 9 second reload with the 263 and have some real DPM advantages?


Edited by Al_Scarface_Capone_, Oct 26 2017 - 20:04.


Bad_Oedipus #6 Posted Oct 26 2017 - 20:11

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Dispersion 0.45... much better than Type 5 Heavy 0.48... I was seriously thinking about getting unlocked Obj 263.  Then I red this post.

 

 

It looks like they nerfed dispersion on all of those TDs ti the point blank values...


Edited by Bad_Oedipus, Oct 26 2017 - 20:14.


OseanTanker #7 Posted Oct 26 2017 - 20:14

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What is the point?!?! I thought that the replacement of tier X's with new ones was to make them play similarly. So why does this break that entirely? You take a line of fast firing but lower caliber guns and replace it with a typical 15X 750 alpha gun.

 

Makes no sense whatsoever.

 



_Schneller_Heinz_ #8 Posted Oct 26 2017 - 20:19

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View PostBad_Oedipus, on Oct 26 2017 - 20:11, said:

Dispersion 0.45... much better than Type 5 Heavy 0.48... I was seriously thinking about getting unlocked Obj 263.  Then I red this post.

 

 

It looks like they nerfed dispersion on all of those TDs ti the point blank values...

 

122-54 and Object-263 have currently .33 dispersion values.

.45 really sucks butt.


Edited by _Schneller_Heinz_, Oct 26 2017 - 20:38.


Bad_Oedipus #9 Posted Oct 26 2017 - 20:22

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View Post_Schneller_Heinz_, on Oct 26 2017 - 14:19, said:

 

122-54 and Object-263 have currently .33 dispersion values.

.45 really sucks butt.

 

I think it is a lot less pleasant that what you suggests... 

Plays_With_Matches #10 Posted Oct 26 2017 - 20:24

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View PostDemonic_Angel_of_Death, on Oct 26 2017 - 13:45, said:

They took a tier 10 TD that was actually different by not having the typical 750 alpha gun, and moved it down and replaced it with a generic alpha gun.

 

It's like what they did with the tier 6 light tanks all over again... You get a 75mm, you get a 75mm, you all get 75mm's in "different flavors" :sceptic:

 

 

Please ensure your feedback complies with the WCFR Rules - CM

 

^^^^ This

 

Anything that is unique is on the chopping block. RIP VK28.01, Obj 416, Obj 263, ...



CapPhrases #11 Posted Oct 26 2017 - 20:31

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soooo you make it the same as other TD's because tanks that are different are too confusing or what?

like how all meds now have strong turrets to make them hulldown tanks, even when that doesn't make sense (AMX 30b anyone?)

or altering the RU med line because that totally needed attention when other lines have fallen to the wayside.

 

Please ensure your feedback complies with the WCFR Rules - CM


Edited by CabbageMechanic, Oct 26 2017 - 20:32.


godofdun #12 Posted Oct 26 2017 - 20:45

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View PostPlays_With_Matches, on Oct 26 2017 - 12:24, said:

 

^^^^ This

 

Anything that is unique is on the chopping block. RIP VK28.01, Obj 416, Obj 263, ...

Couldn't agree more with this.



CapPhrases #13 Posted Oct 26 2017 - 20:46

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to be clear on why this is a poor idea is that the line of TD's had a faster firing gun than the other line which cared more about sheer raw alpha.

to change that so now all of a sudden the tier X has the same alpha and similar reload (and yet worse pen) is just baffling and gives the impression that the line is being changed for no truly good reason.

make the lines unique in giving players a choice depending on playstyle, and that is truly important when a nation has multiple lines of the same type. you have to make them different from each other. these lines currently have the question of "what do you prefer? alpha or dpm?"

that's fine as is, to change it like this is just baffling.



IndygoEEI #14 Posted Oct 26 2017 - 20:53

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View Postlightball20, on Oct 26 2017 - 13:46, said:

Will those who own SU-101M1 keep it? Or is that undecided yet?

 

It says they are completely removing and I will state my opinion on it shortly in this post...

 

You guys at WG have conveyed the idea of having a narrative for tank lines and I agree that

makes sense.  However before we go over what I consider a big mistake, let's look at the ones

you've done so far or are working on where you changed the lines for a more cohesive

narrative.

 

Foch 155 - Overall a nice adjustment so far except I wish you guys had left the option for

single firing guns along with the autoloaders.  I loved my T8 AC with the single shot cannon.

Super Conqueror -  Much better!  Excellent job!  This needed to happen and works well for

you guys can do.

 

Proposed FV 183 change - I like this idea and ending with a turreted td was dumb in the first

place.

 

Proposed Obj 430 Changes - Everything looks good and checking out the 416 is good move. 

Just do not remove it from the game and make it a premium we can earn for unlocking it and

eliting it.

 

Smaller changes

 

US LT Stuff - Removing the Autoloader from the bulldog allows it to be reintroduced into a

more balenced premium if you work on it.  Also adding the alternate T71 as part ot the non

Auto line is good.

 

The Bat Chat change - Granted it wasn't perfect, but you returned the Lorry back to us. 

The only problem we had is that former owners didn't receive anything for having it elite

in the garage in except a replacement.  However we loved our then crappy Lorry and and

wanted it.  If you really want to sell another ex tech tree vehicle to us again, at least give

previous owners a coupon to buy it at discount or a nice sweet lower priced bundle to

show some gratitude.  Customer satisfaction goes a long way.  You should really do this

with the upcoming Aufklaring Panzer since old owners have it in their stats of owning it.

 

Now for the main show...

 

I have a problem with you completely removing the SU101M1.  It should be again made

into a premium.  However the bigger issue is that your changing a line that pretty much

already has a narrative cohesiveness with a unique T10 TD.  Not only that, but this line

has DPM as it's trademark.  Now you're taking away that line's trademark and making it

guns vanilla.  Sure they also have armor, but it you played SU101s you know they suck

hard and that armor means nothing against gold.  Why are you removing DPM from this

line?!  I don't get it.  That with good armor is their trademark. 

 

Couldn't  you have just removed the SU101m1 and kept the Obj 263's DPM gun on it's

Version 4 variant?  Why are you doing this.  It doesn't make sense.



Gunadie #15 Posted Oct 26 2017 - 21:23

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I was not disappointed to see something happen to this side of the tech tree but at first glance its

hard to tell whether this is an improvement or just change for the sake of change

The underwhelming features that the Object 263 had seem to have been passed over to the Obj 26(4)

Even the name change appears to have taken little effort and doesn't sit well.

The 263 had a good ROF and until the mobility nurf it could re-locate quickly as a support vehicle.

The problem with the 263 was a poor turret traverse that caused its camo/bloom/dispersion to be effected

Another big issue was it lacked decent over all vehicle traverse so pivoting to defend was paltry at best and its insufficient power to weight ratio meant that light tanks could not be squished out from a building wedge situation when attempting to prevent a circular flanking method from an enemy.

The decent, yet over rated frontal armor is plagued with a terrible and overly large lower glacis that is easily penned from any distance and close in play was hampered with a huge weak gun mantel. Any attempt to side scrap with this tank was pointless and one of the worst tactics due to terrible side armor

Although these features were bad enough nothing is as bad as the horrendous gun depression compounded by the long track design that prevented

one to utilize bumps and depressions in the terrain to overcome it. The word hull-down tactics were removed from this tank vocab due to it!

So now we have the 268-4 to look forward to...?

First thing I would recommend changing is the over-used and hyphenated name

we already have a 268 and we have a type 4...is this the best you can do?

How about some useful gun depression, not another depressing gun depression stat.

If you are going to brutalize a .32 disp to .45 (which in itself is un-befitting for TD status) shouldn't you at least

give it a decent gun depression seeing as how it cannot snipe anyways.

Isnt taking away the DPM enough compensation for the high Alpha gun!

One garage pumpkin in this side of the line is enough War Gaming, please don't make it 2!!

 

 

Moving the 263 to tier 9 without fixing the problems will more than likely result in this tank sitting is the garage at tier 9 , same as at tier 10!

Why do you think these 2 tanks are underplayed?

BAD GUN DEPRESSION IS A GAME KILLER!

But that DPM nerf....REALLY!!! Time to change the Hepa filters!


 



pickpocket293 #16 Posted Oct 26 2017 - 22:18

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The SU-100M1 is one of my favorite tanks in the game. Sure it's not popular with the majority of players but I really like it. Please don't take away another of my favorites... (RIP Bulldog 10-round autoloader)

 

The SU-100M1 could be an alternate tier 7 in the line, so that a player can go through the M1 or the SU-101 on their way up the line. There's no reason to keep removing tanks that fit the line and are also balanced.



Lesser_Spotted_Panzer #17 Posted Oct 26 2017 - 22:29

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The other line changes WG has made recently have been very logical. I just don't get this change.



Canadian_Reaper #18 Posted Oct 26 2017 - 22:40

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Who's going to grind a 750 Alpha TD with .45 accuracy? Isn't .36 the worst accuracy in game for a T10 TD? And a 21 second reload?

I get that these are (hopefully) placeholder values, but changing the accurate fast firing low alpha TD line to (by far) the most inaccurate and low DPM TD line seems.... odd.



Mikosah #19 Posted Oct 26 2017 - 22:55

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Before we even begin to discuss individual vehicle performance, the much larger question has to be asked: Why?

What is the point of these recent series of replacements? Exactly which problem is WG trying to solve? 

 

All the evidence seems to point in the direction that WG is now needlessly obsessed with making each tank line stay consistent. Each tank has to serve exactly the same role and playstyle as the one researched from it. And again, I have to ask why. How is this helpful? Which problem does it solve? And whatever that is, is it worth all the commotion in reshuffling the lines and otherwise making the replacements so generic? Probably not. All this effort would have been better spent elsewhere.

 

My honest advice to WG is to completely scrap all the recently announced line changes and replacements. Tanks like the T-10, SU-100m1, and Obj 416 are just fine right where they are. The fact that they're a little different from the tanks researched to and from them was never a real problem to begin with. No one complained about it, and the fuss it'll cause to remove them just isn't worth your trouble. So leave them alone. 

 

Admittedly, the SU-100m1 and SU-101 (and the SU-122-54 to a lesser degree) aren't very user-friendly nor particularly strong in the meta, but that could be so much more easily solved by a few basic buffs than all these ridiculous line changes. And as of the Obj 263, it already fits nicely in its niche and is distinct from its counterpart the 268. Replacing it would be nothing short of a travesty. 

 

One last thing I want to cover is that if by chance all this reshuffling might be with the intent of emphasizing armor, then let it be known that armor is a pipe dream. Whenever armor works, then it becomes cancerous to the lower tiers that struggle to deal with it. Whenever it doesn't work, it becomes useless. Code 22 still leaves us with just these two outcomes. This path of 'emphasizing armor' only leads to dead ends. 

 

Incidentally, point of curiosity- how is the RU server reacting to these line change/replacement proposals?



_Schneller_Heinz_ #20 Posted Oct 26 2017 - 22:55

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I will have many empty garage slots if this change happens.




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