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50% Crews: Killing the Game for New Players

Tank Crews Crews Crew Skills Crew Training New Crews More Players Game Improvement Training Crews Crew Perks New Players

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Poll: Crew Training (37 members have cast votes)

How should new crews be trained for the tanks they're purchased for?

  1. Current system: Free 50% trained to tank, Credit 75% trained, Gold 100% trained (15 votes [40.54%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 40.54%

  2. Proposed change: Free 100% trained to tank, Credit 100% +50% Skill, Gold 100% +100% skill (22 votes [59.46%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 59.46%

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CloneSociety #1 Posted Nov 10 2017 - 23:06

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Fixing Tank Crews for New and Old Players
 

As established players, it’s in our best interest to see WoT grow.  I know for many of us it’s been years since we picked up this game and 50% crews are no longer relevant, but I ask that you put yourself in the position of a new player.

 

Newbies VS Low Tier Tankers

 

Even when given 100% crews in their Tier I tanks New Players don't have the resources for crew retraining, so they go for what they can afford: 50% Crews.  Even if they did retrain they would be hit with a sever training penalty should they retrain the crew to a different class of tank.  Which means retraining to anything besides a light tank for nearly all nations.  That 100% tier I crew drops in skill really quickly.  Especially for anyone able to advance down the lines in a timely manner.  It makes the 100% tier I crews a moot point.

New players might begrudgingly throw credits at consumables, but it’s seen as a drain on their resources.  They can’t even fathom paying 500K credit for equipment, let alone real money for premium time.  All the while playing against established players.  I’m not just talking about stat padding seal clubbers either.  There are plenty of people that only play this game at tier V and below.  Whether they’re stat padding or not they’re still playing with crews, equipment, and consumables that far outclass newbies with 50% crews and maybe consumables if they’re lucky.

 

How are new players supposed to be encouraged to move forward with a 50% Crew?

 

This is not how you make new players fall in love with the game. I believe there's a very simple solution that will benefit new and old players alike.  Shift the training values for purchased crews.

 

Free Crews should be 100% trained to the tank the player selects.

 

Credit Crews should be 100% trained to the tank and have 50% of a skill.

 

Gold Crews should be 100% trained to the tank and have 100% of a skill.

Retraining crews from tank to tank can remain the same.

 

50% Crews serve no other purpose than to be free and motive players to pay resources for crews that won’t set them behind other players EVEN FURTHER.  We’re paying to avoid a penalty only applied to new crews only and getting nothing extra for those resources.  How are new players who can only afford free crews supposed to compete against established players and stick with the game?

There’s enough of a learning curve already with spotting and camo mechanics.  50% Crews only put new player even further behind in that curve.  Put a free Crew in any one of your tanks and watch its stats drop.  Play a game if you feel brave, but pray you don’t get stunned by arty.

 

This is plenty long already, so additional points are included here:
 

Spoiler


chzwhz #2 Posted Nov 10 2017 - 23:22

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I think crews should be 100% to start with. If you really wanted to be able to train them beyond 100% with gold or silver the furthest I'd be willing to go is 50% on a first perk with gold.

I think all that's needed though is just start new crews out at 100%.



Blucraft #3 Posted Nov 10 2017 - 23:37

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Experience is developed by playing the game.  However, if someone want's to avoid that grind they can already pay.

 

-Blu



RIA1911 #4 Posted Nov 10 2017 - 23:53

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Funny , why can't they play a tier long enough to earn the credits , to train their crews to 75%, that works just fine.  Get credits , buy tank and train crew. All part of learning the game and not advancing so fast they are clueless as they get to higher tiers.  Otherwise let them pay and support the game.

GeorgePreddy #5 Posted Nov 11 2017 - 00:23

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It has never been easier to train crews than it is right now !

CloneSociety #6 Posted Nov 11 2017 - 01:36

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View Postchzwhz, on Nov 10 2017 - 14:22, said:

I think crews should be 100% to start with. If you really wanted to be able to train them beyond 100% with gold or silver the furthest I'd be willing to go is 50% on a first perk with gold.

I think all that's needed though is just start new crews out at 100%.

 

100% tank trained is the primary goal.  This is simply a system that could easily slip in to the established system.  Not to mention you can already buy skill to whatever level you choose given the ability to currently convert Free EXP to Crew EXP.  Also there is already a precident for crews like this with female crews.

 

View PostRIA1911, on Nov 10 2017 - 14:53, said:

Funny , why can't they play a tier long enough to earn the credits , to train their crews to 75%, that works just fine.  Get credits , buy tank and train crew. All part of learning the game and not advancing so fast they are clueless as they get to higher tiers.  Otherwise let them pay and support the game.

 

The point is that 50% crews don't do anything to move the game to a higher level.  No player in their right mind would willing use a 50% crew.  They do nothing but drag the people still learning the game down.

 

View PostGeorgePreddy, on Nov 10 2017 - 15:23, said:

It has never been easier to train crews than it is right now !

 

Reserves are not a substitute.  This is a change that helps new players the most to encourage them to keep up with the game.  This is not about giving a bonus to established players.  There is no good reason to force a 50% on new players.

RC_1140 #7 Posted Nov 11 2017 - 03:43

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I agree, anything to help new players is a good thing. I didn't notice it when I was new but this is kinda a hard game to start. After you build up resources and knowledge its fine but being new is hard. Especially with seal clubbers. 

tikimonk #8 Posted Nov 13 2017 - 02:15

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I think wargaming has nothing to lose by looking into this concept. at worst its business as usual. but we may be able to get some changes out of this for the game. that are positive.

CloneSociety #9 Posted Nov 20 2017 - 02:12

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View PostRC_1140, on Nov 10 2017 - 18:43, said:

I agree, anything to help new players is a good thing. I didn't notice it when I was new but this is kinda a hard game to start. After you build up resources and knowledge its fine but being new is hard. Especially with seal clubbers. 

 

Yes, this game has a steep learning curve and in the past Wargamming hasn't done s very good of teaching the unique features of the game.  What I notice a number of people seem to be missing about this is the disparity between new players and established players that have Credits, Crews, Reserves (Personal and Clan), equipment, and consumables.

 

View Posttikimonk, on Nov 12 2017 - 17:15, said:

I think wargaming has nothing to lose by looking into this concept. at worst its business as usual. but we may be able to get some changes out of this for the game. that are positive.

 

At worst they could up the price for a gold crew.  I still think it could be worth it.

ArcticTankHunter #10 Posted Nov 20 2017 - 02:15

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How about 90% for creds retrain and 75% for free training?

I find tier 4 has the most difficulty due to 50% facing T5 premiums and players who have 100% crew on T5-T6.

 

Even then T4 doesn't seem to be able to make the crew 100% when you unlock next tank with credits trained at 75%. Which is stupid. Giving you a major disadvantage when you hit T5.

 

Gold should be giving 100% crew + 50% crew skill for the first skill.

How rare is it to use gold? Plus if people use gold to train they only need to do it once per line. No one is going to bother spamming gold for each tank. Gold crew training should be a one time thing per line and it is for everyone.

 

Tank around T4-T6 tends to have lots of crew members costing you around 100k to 140k to retrain with creds which you don't have at the start of the game. Changing from 50% -> 75% default should give new players less problem at the start.


Edited by ArcticTankHunter, Nov 20 2017 - 02:26.


CloneSociety #11 Posted Nov 20 2017 - 23:03

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View PostArcticTankHunter, on Nov 19 2017 - 17:15, said:

How about 90% for creds retrain and 75% for free training?

I find tier 4 has the most difficulty due to 50% facing T5 premiums and players who have 100% crew on T5-T6.

 

Even then T4 doesn't seem to be able to make the crew 100% when you unlock next tank with credits trained at 75%. Which is stupid. Giving you a major disadvantage when you hit T5.

 

Gold should be giving 100% crew + 50% crew skill for the first skill.

How rare is it to use gold? Plus if people use gold to train they only need to do it once per line. No one is going to bother spamming gold for each tank. Gold crew training should be a one time thing per line and it is for everyone.

 

Tank around T4-T6 tends to have lots of crew members costing you around 100k to 140k to retrain with creds which you don't have at the start of the game. Changing from 50% -> 75% default should give new players less problem at the start.

 

As it stands, I don't see the need to change crew retraining and my idea doesn't call for it.  Leaving retraining as it stands still promotes players buying premium tanks to boost after they've retrained a crew.  Gold retraining is still an option for lines that don't have premium tank trainers, like many of the artillery lines.  The idea of free crews being given at 100% means crews will add up quickly and either drive up demand for barracks slots or require a regular cleaning out of the barracks.  It gives barracks slots more value to either be requested as rewards or for players to spend gold on them.

 

Crew Retraining isn't what I'm addressing.  Personally, I think that a crew should only fall under 100% trained if they're in a vehicle they aren't trained for, or if they've gone through anything less than gold retraining. The idea that giving new players crews that take away from their tank will make them want to continue playing the game is preposterous.  Especially given how stats are displayed in red now in the garage.

Veteran players already have benefits of Personal Reserves, Clan Reserves, Equipment, Crew Skills and Perks, any Premium Tanks they've been awarded or bought, Bond equipment or Directives, and the ability to play in a tank that isn't stock.  In what way is it fair to throw a 50% crew on a new player against all that and expect them to enjoy the game?

My overall point is that 50% and 75% crews do nothing to serve the game in a positive and meaningful way, and do nothing to endear new players to World of Tanks.  In fact I would say it takes away from the game as it takes away from new players enjoyment as it does their tanks performance.



CloneSociety #12 Posted Nov 20 2017 - 23:40

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View PostCloneSociety, on Nov 20 2017 - 14:03, said:

 

As it stands, I don't see the need to change crew retraining and my idea doesn't call for it.  Leaving retraining as it stands still promotes players buying premium tanks to boost after they've retrained a crew.  Gold retraining is still an option for lines that don't have premium tank trainers, like many of the artillery lines.  The idea of free crews being given at 100% means crews will add up quickly and either drive up demand for barracks slots or require a regular cleaning out of the barracks.  It gives barracks slots more value to either be requested as rewards or for players to spend gold on them.

 

Crew Retraining isn't what I'm addressing.  Personally, I think that a crew should only fall under 100% trained if they're in a vehicle they aren't trained for, or if they've gone through anything less than gold retraining. The idea that giving new players crews that take away from their tank will make them want to continue playing the game is preposterous.  Especially given how stats are displayed in red now in the garage.

Veteran players already have benefits of Personal Reserves, Clan Reserves, Equipment, Crew Skills and Perks, any Premium Tanks they've been awarded or bought, Bond equipment or Directives, and the ability to play in a tank that isn't stock.  In what way is it fair to throw a 50% crew on a new player against all that and expect them to enjoy the game?

My overall point is that 50% and 75% crews do nothing to serve the game in a positive and meaningful way, and do nothing to endear new players to World of Tanks.  In fact I would say it takes away from the game as it takes away from new players enjoyment as it does their tanks performance.

 

Further more, as long as new players are playing with sub 100% crews they're not learning about perks or skills.  It also has the potential to cause an increase in crew reskilling.

SpectreHD #13 Posted Nov 21 2017 - 02:28

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View PostCloneSociety, on Nov 21 2017 - 06:40, said:

 

Further more, as long as new players are playing with sub 100% crews they're not learning about perks or skills.  It also has the potential to cause an increase in crew reskilling.

 

I agree. I do feel one of the factors new players leave is the fact that poorly trained crews add into stock tanks makes this game frustrating for NEW players.

 

The bolded part seems to be lost on most people. 

 

This game needs less barriers of entry, especially from a game design standpoint.

 

Heck, my version is that newly researched and bought tanks should come with a 100% crew should the player elect to take it on their new purchase. Otherwise revenue can be earned through crew retraining of older crews.



Altwar #14 Posted Nov 21 2017 - 02:35

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Why not give new players a free tier 8 premium?   And 20 slots in the garage?  And 100s of consumables of every type?  Because geez, who wants to start at the beginning and train up a crew for a while when you can take the easy road and hurry up and get big tanks that make things go boom?  /sarcasm

 

I could see maybe doing a special mission that might boost a single tank's crew from 50% to 75% after which, hey.  Struggle for a while. Doesn't take all that long to get to 100% from there, even with a free account.

 



SpectreHD #15 Posted Nov 21 2017 - 03:40

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View PostAltwar, on Nov 21 2017 - 09:35, said:

Why not give new players a free tier 8 premium?   And 20 slots in the garage?  And 100s of consumables of every type?  Because geez, who wants to start at the beginning and train up a crew for a while when you can take the easy road and hurry up and get big tanks that make things go boom?  /sarcasm

 

I could see maybe doing a special mission that might boost a single tank's crew from 50% to 75% after which, hey.  Struggle for a while. Doesn't take all that long to get to 100% from there, even with a free account.

 

 

Struggling with a stock tank is enough. No need to make it worse with a crew not operating at full capacity.

Pongo #16 Posted Nov 21 2017 - 03:51

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I agree that it is imposible to play with 50% crews. But moving the revenue stream to make the first 50% of the top crew seems suspect to me. 

And, the game is not dying because of this. When numbers where 5 times what they are this was still in effect.

The game has been stomped by something that has changed in the last 3 years.

Likely the drift to way to powerful premium tanks.

 



CloneSociety #17 Posted Nov 21 2017 - 04:36

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View PostAltwar, on Nov 20 2017 - 17:35, said:

Why not give new players a free tier 8 premium?   And 20 slots in the garage?  And 100s of consumables of every type?  Because geez, who wants to start at the beginning and train up a crew for a while when you can take the easy road and hurry up and get big tanks that make things go boom?  /sarcasm

 

I could see maybe doing a special mission that might boost a single tank's crew from 50% to 75% after which, hey.  Struggle for a while. Doesn't take all that long to get to 100% from there, even with a free account.

 

 

Give me one good reason to have 50% crews in the game.  Besides "I suffered through it, and so should they."
 

A new player is already so far behind.  Why do they need one more hurdle to cross that established players never have to suffer?  On top of missing out on Personal Reserves, Clan Reserves, Equipment, Crew Skills and Perks, Premium Tanks, Bond equipment or Directives, and the ability to play in a tank that isn't stock, they must also play with a 50% crew.
 

Put a free 50% crew in some of your favorite tanks and watch the stats go red.  Also consider that a new player probably doesn't have the credits for equipment and the like.  Getting a crew to 100% is not the only time you train a crew.  Let new players play with and learn about skills at perks.  Skills and Perks need to be updated anyway.

 

View PostPongo, on Nov 20 2017 - 18:51, said:

I agree that it is imposible to play with 50% crews. But moving the revenue stream to make the first 50% of the top crew seems suspect to me. 

And, the game is not dying because of this. When numbers where 5 times what they are this was still in effect.

The game has been stomped by something that has changed in the last 3 years.

Likely the drift to way to powerful premium tanks.

 

 

No one has said anything about the game dying.  I see no good reason to put 50% crews in the tanks of new players who are still learning the game where they have no camo, view range, and a long reload.  This makes the game more approachable, yes, which would make it more accessable.  WoT needs to grow, and they've been making a lot of good changes, but Crews obviously need to change as well.  World of Warships, World of Warplanes, even WoT console and blitz do crews differently.  Crews need to catch up with the times.

CloneSociety #18 Posted Nov 21 2017 - 04:56

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View PostSpectreHD, on Nov 20 2017 - 17:28, said:

 

I agree. I do feel one of the factors new players leave is the fact that poorly trained crews add into stock tanks makes this game frustrating for NEW players.

 

The bolded part seems to be lost on most people. 

 

This game needs less barriers of entry, especially from a game design standpoint.

 

Heck, my version is that newly researched and bought tanks should come with a 100% crew should the player elect to take it on their new purchase. Otherwise revenue can be earned through crew retraining of older crews.

 

Yeah, not many seem to be able to return to the headspace of a new player.  An alternative to my idea would be to allow Free Exp to Crew Exp conversions to bring a crew up to 100% trained.  At this point you can only convert the exp to boost skills and perks.

SpectreHD #19 Posted Nov 21 2017 - 04:59

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View PostCloneSociety, on Nov 21 2017 - 11:56, said:

 

Yeah, not many seem to be able to return to the headspace of a new player.  An alternative to my idea would be to allow Free Exp to Crew Exp conversions to bring a crew up to 100% trained.  At this point you can only convert the exp to boost skills and perks.

 

So many ways. But will WG do it? Doubt it. Their game design, catered for the RU server, involves frustrating a player to level up and/or spend.

CloneSociety #20 Posted Nov 21 2017 - 05:13

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View PostSpectreHD, on Nov 20 2017 - 19:59, said:

 

So many ways. But will WG do it? Doubt it. Their game design, catered for the RU server, involves frustrating a player to level up and/or spend.

 

I would beg to differ.  We've seen a lot of very good changes to the game since the failure of Rubicon. World of Warships, Warplanes, WoT console, and Blitz all handle crews differently, so I think that change is possible and likely to come.  I just don't think it's given the priority that I think it should.

We've seen updates to spotting to speed it up and the move to a draw circle instead of a square.  We've seen tanks and eventually maps move into HD.  We've even seen MM become updated and a little more balanced.  Because of these changes and others, I remain positive about the development of the game.  It's possible they're even working on their own solution for crews. If nothing else discussions like these can potentially be helpful for the game and its development.




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