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Concealment has become a joke


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Scanjoon #21 Posted Nov 12 2017 - 19:16

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Don't you just love the WoT fanbois who always swear that the game is spot on in all aspects, and the game physics are the best of all games and never have said-claimed glitches because the fanbois have not experienced the same...or so they claim?

 

I am not saying that what the OP stated did occur, but to say the occurrence was and is not possible is bull [edited]e. Yesterday while watching a last survivor, a Hummel, a T67 came in at the side and then behind the Hummel and did not light up until about 40-50 feet (13 -15m) from the Hummel. PM'd player and asked if he also noticed, and he did.

 

I too have experienced similar detection glitches. The one that stands out the most is when I was in the Wolverine and rolled close by a clump of bushes and did not detect a tank behind the bushes until I had passed at which time he came out behind me.

 

http://www.wotinfo.net/en/camo-calculator

 



the_Deadly_Bulb #22 Posted Nov 12 2017 - 19:38

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View PostDirizon, on Nov 11 2017 - 20:53, said:

Camo is a pretty silly mechanic. It has no outright counter.

View range does not counter camo. If an enemy unit is behind bushes with paint and camo net, it will remain unspotted, unless it is med tank like E5O or M48A, or a TD like Jag Pz or FVs, or heavy tanks. Double bush just makes things horrible. Unless the hidden tank fires, unless swede TDs or E25, detection is terrible, and will cost you terrible chunks of HP

 

camo only known counter, is city maps. Where known camo spots like Paris or ensk or ruinberg, can simply be avoided and you may use a city flank.

 

In my my honest opinion E25 needs view range nerfs, like other typical T7 TDs, reduced gun Traverse so it constantly has to shift and break binocs+camo net, and Swede TDs need advantage of maintaining camo net + binocs on siege mode pivot removed. This reduces their campy stale effect

 

View PostArturo_Steel, on Nov 11 2017 - 23:26, said:

Not sure what you want people to tell you, the view range of his tank was able to overmatch the camo percent of your tank. Thats how the game has always worked.

 

View PostThePigSheFlies, on Nov 12 2017 - 07:51, said:

the lack of player knowledge is what the joke is.

 

the grille15 has horrifyingly bad camo - especially when moving or shooting.  I don't even have the LT100, but if I were to promote my T54LT crew to it, here's how far away I can spot your Grille 15 if you so much as twitch the hull, or fire - with me meanwhile running optics + vents (for simplicity I also made your crew 100% camo across all 6 crewmembers, not just the 4 you have)

 

 

not that any of this matters, the maps where view range actually matters are so rare that it makes the thread author's post even more of a joke.

 

First quoted post is incorrect.

Second one provides a potential explanation.

Third one provides the probable cause. :honoring:


 


 



Mudman24 #23 Posted Nov 12 2017 - 19:38

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View PostJOSEPHINEISH, on Nov 11 2017 - 22:55, said:

So what are you bro some guy that posts from an alt account or are you a lifetime tier IV player?I really want to know.I mean you  have more posts than battles what is this ?

His main account was permanently banned from the forum (also ave tier of 3-4) so now he trolls with this one. 



Viserion_Dies #24 Posted Nov 13 2017 - 00:44

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View PostCarchost0, on Nov 12 2017 - 04:13, said:

Just had a game that highlighted how messed up the cammo values are currently. I was being spotted by a t100-lt sitting dead center of the map, we knew he was somewhere there, but 1/2 our team must have driven past him lessthan 75m. yet he was able to spot me 400m+ in a grille 15, cammo net, bia, +4 crew 100% cammo. 

 

thats funny, cause i repeatedly fail to spot tanks shooting me 100 meters away from me.... yep. wanna trade?

Dirizon #25 Posted Nov 13 2017 - 04:18

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View Postthe_Deadly_Bulb, on Nov 12 2017 - 14:08, said:

 

 

 

First quoted post is incorrect.

Second one provides a potential explanation.

Third one provides the probable cause. 

 

 

An average player, who can't crawl out of average, hat is making 49-5O% W/R, does not know the definitions of correct, cause, or explanation. If you did, you wouldnt be where you are. Hard to take anything you say at all, as valid.

 

Camo scores maybe weaker on some vehicles. Like Cent7/1 for example. But if Cent7/1 is behind a proper full coverage bush, if it has a camo net, paint exterior, vents+BlArms, full commander, camo skill , directives - heck even a double bush too.....all of a sudden your not so stealthy vehicle is invisible. TDs have it better, as camo net gives better bonus on their class. That is how weaker camo TDs , something like a Ferdinand can still go invisible and stay dark.

Now if they have binocs, it propels view range forwards, so they can easily spot moving TDs, heavy tanks, meds, SPGs, and LTs darting from bushes to bush. All these tanks have to do, is not fire, and they stay camo and dark. Because bushes, proper full on bushes, help camo TREMEND0USLY. And there you have it , view range does not counter bloody camo. Because if the camo and dark tank, is disciplined and stalwart, and does not want to break silence, you'll never spot it until driving into it 5Om away. At which way before, its team support chews you apart, behind the spotter using draw ranges not detection range

 

only stuff that can't do this are terrible camo things, like tortoise or Jag Pz E, which have ugly camo scores. And heavy tanks. Can't help ugly out, if downright ugly. Furthermore, these large vehicles and SPGs especially, are very wide and tall, and have problems finding appropriate and proper coverage bushes, that hide their entire line of sight section. Which then don't provide camo. 

 

Nothing counters ever watchful, diligent camo. Nothing. Unless you want to lose all your health driving into it, 5Om. The only thing that does counter camo, thankfully, are city maps. Which you avoid camo spots, not counter it directly. And which there are a lot of city maps.

 

how about you learn some concepts yourself before asserting who is and isn't correct. It will help you both ways, you won't continue to drive at 48% rate in addition. 

 



Markd73 #26 Posted Nov 14 2017 - 22:40

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View PostVinnyI82, on Nov 12 2017 - 04:34, said:

 

I've been killed by strv tds from literally 30-40 meters away and not spotted them.

 

 I am not taking a run at you but perhaps but the use of a replay will confirm/deny your take on it.

 

Leads me to a bigger question - Why are people so adverse to providing evidence when they make a claim?


Edited by Markd73, Nov 14 2017 - 22:43.


Markd73 #27 Posted Nov 14 2017 - 22:41

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View PostDirizon, on Nov 12 2017 - 04:53, said:

Camo is a pretty silly mechanic. It has no outright counter.

View range does not counter camo. If an enemy unit is behind bushes with paint and camo net, it will remain unspotted, unless it is med tank like E5O or M48A, or a TD like Jag Pz or FVs, or heavy tanks. Double bush just makes things horrible. Unless the hidden tank fires, unless swede TDs or E25, detection is terrible, and will cost you terrible chunks of HP

 

camo only known counter, is city maps. Where known camo spots like Paris or ensk or ruinberg, can simply be avoided and you may use a city flank. 

 

In my my honest opinion E25 needs view range nerfs, like other typical T7 TDs, reduced gun Traverse so it constantly has to shift and break binocs+camo net, and Swede TDs need advantage of maintaining camo net + binocs on siege mode pivot removed. This reduces their campy stale effect 

 

I thought that excess view range reduced the camo value of the target?



ThePigSheFlies #28 Posted Nov 15 2017 - 00:02

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View PostMarkd73, on Nov 14 2017 - 16:41, said:

 

I thought that excess view range reduced the camo value of the target?

 

it does, but if the TD in question is already at the edge of view range (because let's be honest most TD players are pretty passive) then you aren't likely to spot one unless it has garbage camo like the Grille, OR it happens to fire during one of your spotting check intervals 

 

the key for a LT or medium on an active run is to make sure that they have dropped lights before attempting a deeper cut with the view range circle - you don't want to already be lit while trying to dive deeper in trying to get lights on the enemy.



Hurk #29 Posted Nov 15 2017 - 01:01

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spotting checks are now several times a second. though still relevant that you might occasionally miss a tank, nowhere near as bad as the old days with the 2-4 second delays.

dirkme1022 #30 Posted Nov 15 2017 - 01:37

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View PostCarchost0, on Nov 12 2017 - 05:13, said:

Just had a game that highlighted how messed up the cammo values are currently. I was being spotted by a t100-lt sitting dead center of the map, we knew he was somewhere there, but 1/2 our team must have driven past him lessthan 75m. yet he was able to spot me 400m+ in a grille 15, cammo net, bia, +4 crew 100% cammo. 

 

Grille is German, it is not allowed camo!!!!

ledhed14 #31 Posted Nov 15 2017 - 02:07

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Imagine if this game had non arcade and realistic mechanics ... EVERYTHING could hide with proper camo as vision from inside most every type is very restricted and teamwork is required with infantry even today with themal sights etc. WWII tanks had even at best POOR vision unless comander was into cheating death and not buttoned up . So you need learn the " Game " mechanics that try to mimic some form of camo for Tanks and also provide them with magic health pools so you can survive a few mistakes or unlike a REAL tanker " sacrifice some health " to kill another tank that should make you a battle casuality with one or two pens NOT someone with half his health left . So we learn to take advantage of HP and use them as armour , same as we use vision mechanics and draw rate restrictions to exploit and turn to our advantage . BUT we complain about premium ammo that actually was and is used for REAL and allowed many tanks to still remain in the field despite sub par guns for tank vs tank battle . You see in this world bunkers and infantry have somehow vanished , no tank traps and anti tank guns hidden in caves . No bazooka or panzer faust . So to play you learn how they made the game and those who do best at trying to undertand the game mechanics and skills for crews , farm those that casually play just becasue it is fun to shoot things in a tank and blow things up . It isn't rocket science , as I didn't mention the ISP , and vid card  ability and HUGE difference this causes that is not skill related just cash or commited gamer vs potato rig from 2004 that runs the game with sat provider type lag that is best you can afford to play with . for some reason we make more of this " game " than it deserves . But it has been this way since game was first launched.

TacoJohnHG #32 Posted Nov 15 2017 - 02:27

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View PostDirizon, on Nov 12 2017 - 21:18, said:

 

An average player, who can't crawl out of average, hat is making 49-5O% W/R, does not know the definitions of correct, cause, or explanation. If you did, you wouldnt be where you are. Hard to take anything you say at all, as valid.

 

Camo scores maybe weaker on some vehicles. Like Cent7/1 for example. But if Cent7/1 is behind a proper full coverage bush, if it has a camo net, paint exterior, vents+BlArms, full commander, camo skill , directives - heck even a double bush too.....all of a sudden your not so stealthy vehicle is invisible. TDs have it better, as camo net gives better bonus on their class. That is how weaker camo TDs , something like a Ferdinand can still go invisible and stay dark.

Now if they have binocs, it propels view range forwards, so they can easily spot moving TDs, heavy tanks, meds, SPGs, and LTs darting from bushes to bush. All these tanks have to do, is not fire, and they stay camo and dark. Because bushes, proper full on bushes, help camo TREMEND0USLY. And there you have it , view range does not counter bloody camo. Because if the camo and dark tank, is disciplined and stalwart, and does not want to break silence, you'll never spot it until driving into it 5Om away. At which way before, its team support chews you apart, behind the spotter using draw ranges not detection range

 

only stuff that can't do this are terrible camo things, like tortoise or Jag Pz E, which have ugly camo scores. And heavy tanks. Can't help ugly out, if downright ugly. Furthermore, these large vehicles and SPGs especially, are very wide and tall, and have problems finding appropriate and proper coverage bushes, that hide their entire line of sight section. Which then don't provide camo. 

 

Nothing counters ever watchful, diligent camo. Nothing. Unless you want to lose all your health driving into it, 5Om. The only thing that does counter camo, thankfully, are city maps. Which you avoid camo spots, not counter it directly. And which there are a lot of city maps.

 

how about you learn some concepts yourself before asserting who is and isn't correct. It will help you both ways, you won't continue to drive at 48% rate in addition. 

 

 

 

You should watch this video, particularly the last 2-3 minutes. Please don't spout off nonsense like "nothing counters camo".

 


Dirizon #33 Posted Nov 15 2017 - 07:40

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View PostMarkd73, on Nov 14 2017 - 17:11, said:

 

I thought that excess view range reduced the camo value of the target?

 

most players go for 445 then stop. 

Most of these view range checks happen over open ground.  Enemies properly using camo use bush coverage, close transparent for themselves bushes, and setup binocs -- as opposed to open ground active scouts that cannot peer through opaque bushes and their coated optics....

lf the stealthed spotter holds fire, you really won't spot it. 

 

View PostTacoJohnHG, on Nov 14 2017 - 20:57, said:

 

 

You should watch this video, particularly the last 2-3 minutes. Please don't spout off nonsense like "nothing counters camo".

 

Not one shred of nonsense. Stop steaming out of your spout.

and don't please at me, taco.

these lab'' open ground spot checks, don't reveal one shred of the reality that is true professional nearly uncounterable passive spotting.  Bushes, double bushes, add so much more to camo.  That the only way to counter, is to , with your LT....race to known coveted spots first early game in hopes of beating enemy LTs to the location. IE:  prokh, forest flank mid rows. Murovanka bush ridges, 2-3 column. El hal, middle rocks. Mines, island lighthouse bushes. Malin, shortside river channel.

In these cases you don't counter camo, you prevent a tactical adv because you spot the perpetrator approaching over open ground, to which it is spotted. Not revealing a diligent pro passive spotter behind a bush. 

 



TankFullOfBourbon #34 Posted Nov 15 2017 - 07:47

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Agree Op. I was killed by a Type 5 Heavy standing right behind me, blocking my exit, totally unspotted on the map.

Roggg2 #35 Posted Nov 15 2017 - 14:58

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View PostCarchost0, on Nov 11 2017 - 23:13, said:

Just had a game that highlighted how messed up the cammo values are currently. I was being spotted by a t100-lt sitting dead center of the map, we knew he was somewhere there, but 1/2 our team must have driven past him lessthan 75m. yet he was able to spot me 400m+ in a grille 15, cammo net, bia, +4 crew 100% cammo. 

 

I think your interpretation of events is most likely wrong, and unless you post a replay, I think most people are probably going to go with that.  When something odd happens in a game, and you want to run it by the community, you need to provide a replay.  If it's worth posting to the community about is it not worth the 60 seconds to upload and link the replay?




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