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Lites Mediums and Heavies CAMPING is it a problem?


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Poll: Is Camping a problem in Random Battles (88 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 100 battles in order to participate this poll.

Do you feel Lites, Medium or Heavies that camp affect the outcome of Random Battles

  1. yes (66 votes [75.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 75.00%

  2. No (22 votes [25.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

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Ripping #41 Posted Dec 07 2017 - 16:18

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Sadly too many do not know the difference between camping and sniping...

 

Camping is pointless... Your gun is not in action, and by the time it is, the side has already been over run.

 

Sniping is being where you can fire at the reds, remain hidden towards the rear but still support the push...

 

Why is it so hard to know this.

 

Way too many times you call out a heavy, Medium, even a TD on the red line at the rear and get a reply " I am camping, it is what this tank does" :(



Aknazer #42 Posted Dec 07 2017 - 16:40

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View PostRipping, on Dec 07 2017 - 16:18, said:

Sadly too many do not know the difference between camping and sniping...

 

Camping is pointless... Your gun is not in action, and by the time it is, the side has already been over run.

 

Sniping is being where you can fire at the reds, remain hidden towards the rear but still support the push...

 

Why is it so hard to know this.

 

Way too many times you call out a heavy, Medium, even a TD on the red line at the rear and get a reply " I am camping, it is what this tank does" :(

 

It really all depends.  Take Abbey for example.  A TD can very easily camp one of the middle lanes and not fire until a lot later into the match.  But if that "camper" wasn't there then LTs and meds would end up very quickly flanking the 1 or 9 line pushes, take out any arty, etc.  Or on Fisherman's Bay where people might not being firing down the 1/2 line but leaving it open since "no one is there" or only 1-2 tanks have been spotted on it and they're just hiding (but yet more might be camping behind those 1-2) is just asking for the city and mid to be flanked.

 

Which is why I would say having a gun "not in action" isn't always a bad thing.  Of course what you described is bad and people do need to be able to read the map.  You have 5 other allies on your side, 10 enemies have been spotted on the other side of the map, and there's two arty?  The six of you should either push your side to quickly take out the 0-3 tanks there followed by the enemy arty and flanking the enemy (maybe even have 1-2 sit on cap depending on the situation as it now puts a timer pressure on the enemy to hopefully make a few turn around and take pressure off your seven), or several of you (but not all!) should flex to support the other flank where there's a 7:10 overmatch in the enemy's favor.  But if you flex you still need a few "camping" in order to prevent the enemy suddenly coming up an unguarded flank.



Markd73 #43 Posted Dec 07 2017 - 17:49

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View PostIKEWIN, on Dec 07 2017 - 01:59, said:

 

​Apathy.......Is this the best way to solve problems. I am writing this poll to discover if people feel camping is hurting the game.

 

And by the way distance travelled and damage over 300 meters are recorded every game and are in your permanent stats..... therefore WoT can use these stats to determine the make up of a team!

 

Also WoT can reduce the award for farmed and mined damage! Damage from over 300 meter for a lite, medium or heavy tanks should be worth 1/2 as much credits and experience. This alone would motivated the stat [edited]to move closer. Rewarding camper equally to those who move forward with the battle is wrong......

 

IKEWIN

 

The question you should ask yourself is what if any affect that your asking in a forum poll will have?

 

If you are just asking out of curiosity then I get it, but WG doesn't care nor will they ever care



Ripping #44 Posted Dec 07 2017 - 19:20

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View PostAknazer, on Dec 07 2017 - 16:40, said:

 

It really all depends.  Take Abbey for example.  A TD can very easily camp one of the middle lanes and not fire until a lot later into the match.  But if that "camper" wasn't there then LTs and meds would end up very quickly flanking the 1 or 9 line pushes, take out any arty, etc.  Or on Fisherman's Bay where people might not being firing down the 1/2 line but leaving it open since "no one is there" or only 1-2 tanks have been spotted on it and they're just hiding (but yet more might be camping behind those 1-2) is just asking for the city and mid to be flanked.

 

Which is why I would say having a gun "not in action" isn't always a bad thing.  Of course what you described is bad and people do need to be able to read the map.  You have 5 other allies on your side, 10 enemies have been spotted on the other side of the map, and there's two arty?  The six of you should either push your side to quickly take out the 0-3 tanks there followed by the enemy arty and flanking the enemy (maybe even have 1-2 sit on cap depending on the situation as it now puts a timer pressure on the enemy to hopefully make a few turn around and take pressure off your seven), or several of you (but not all!) should flex to support the other flank where there's a 7:10 overmatch in the enemy's favor.  But if you flex you still need a few "camping" in order to prevent the enemy suddenly coming up an unguarded flank.

 

THe abbey one I personally do not agree, if the team plays well enough, you will not need to have people camping to stop lights and mediums. But Fishermans Bay, they are sniping more than camping, as from the 2 ends of 1/2 line they can see and hit tanks from the moment they set up...

 

More the problem is all the maps where they set up and cannot see anything til the reds roll right up to them, over them and keep going... No real TD for example can hold off a push by 2=3 determined tanks... It is not meant for that.

 

Prime example... Ruinberg TDs and Mediums sitting on the red line, with all the rises and drops of the land they can see nothing til the reds have pushed the 9/0 lines clear and set up in the little town...

 

There is just a lack of clarity as what they should be doing...

 

Yes we have all seen the E100 or Type 4 trying to snipe while the team is rolled...And if we are honest, these are sub 44%ers usually with under 2k games played...



IKEWIN #45 Posted Dec 07 2017 - 20:19

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View PostRipping, on Dec 07 2017 - 16:18, said:

Sadly too many do not know the difference between camping and sniping...

 

Camping is pointless... Your gun is not in action, and by the time it is, the side has already been over run.

 

Sniping is being where you can fire at the reds, remain hidden towards the rear but still support the push...

 

Why is it so hard to know this.

 

Way too many times you call out a heavy, Medium, even a TD on the red line at the rear and get a reply " I am camping, it is what this tank does" :(

 

​Ripping I could not agree with you more. Snipers are good but campers are bad. You described the outcome of games where there a lot of campers perfectly.

 

Cheers brother.

 

IKEWIN



IKEWIN #46 Posted Dec 07 2017 - 20:21

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View PostAknazer, on Dec 07 2017 - 16:40, said:

 

It really all depends.  Take Abbey for example.  A TD can very easily camp one of the middle lanes and not fire until a lot later into the match.  But if that "camper" wasn't there then LTs and meds would end up very quickly flanking the 1 or 9 line pushes, take out any arty, etc.  Or on Fisherman's Bay where people might not being firing down the 1/2 line but leaving it open since "no one is there" or only 1-2 tanks have been spotted on it and they're just hiding (but yet more might be camping behind those 1-2) is just asking for the city and mid to be flanked.

 

Which is why I would say having a gun "not in action" isn't always a bad thing.  Of course what you described is bad and people do need to be able to read the map.  You have 5 other allies on your side, 10 enemies have been spotted on the other side of the map, and there's two arty?  The six of you should either push your side to quickly take out the 0-3 tanks there followed by the enemy arty and flanking the enemy (maybe even have 1-2 sit on cap depending on the situation as it now puts a timer pressure on the enemy to hopefully make a few turn around and take pressure off your seven), or several of you (but not all!) should flex to support the other flank where there's a 7:10 overmatch in the enemy's favor.  But if you flex you still need a few "camping" in order to prevent the enemy suddenly coming up an unguarded flank.

 

​Dear Sir. You keep bringing up Tank Destroyer. My poll and comments have nothing to do with TD who are expected to camp. This is about TANKS not TDs. 

 

Thank you for the feedback but please stay on topic. This camping beef is not about TD its about tanks. 

 

Regards IKEWIN



IKEWIN #47 Posted Dec 07 2017 - 20:32

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View PostRipping, on Dec 07 2017 - 19:20, said:

 

THe abbey one I personally do not agree, if the team plays well enough, you will not need to have people camping to stop lights and mediums. But Fishermans Bay, they are sniping more than camping, as from the 2 ends of 1/2 line they can see and hit tanks from the moment they set up...

 

More the problem is all the maps where they set up and cannot see anything til the reds roll right up to them, over them and keep going... No real TD for example can hold off a push by 2=3 determined tanks... It is not meant for that.

 

Prime example... Ruinberg TDs and Mediums sitting on the red line, with all the rises and drops of the land they can see nothing til the reds have pushed the 9/0 lines clear and set up in the little town...

 

There is just a lack of clarity as what they should be doing...

 

Yes we have all seen the E100 or Type 4 trying to snipe while the team is rolled...And if we are honest, these are sub 44%ers usually with under 2k games played...

 

Dear Sir.

 

This is not about TDs it is about Tanks. Please stay on topic.

I agree with your points but when the Tanks hide with the TDs a team is going to have a problem. In many cases I see heavies mediums and lites hiding behind the TDS. This is the issue the Tanks that play like TDS.

 

This behavior has more to do with the reward for a Tank hiding with the TDs. Tanks who do damage over 300 meters should not receive the same credit rate as a TD who does the same damage as a Tank at over 300meters.

 

If the Tanks doing damage from a distance over 300 meters received lets say 1/2 the credits and xp they would if the damage was done at less than 300 meters I believe this would have a huge impact on Tanks camping. Tanks that camp should receive less rewards than tanks that advance in the game. I believe this would be a easy solution to Tanks camping. If a tanker got a lower rating (stats suffered) cause they are camping then I believe that camping by tanks would be severely hindered.

 

As it stands now your statistic as a Tank are better if you camp. This however defeats one goal of the game which is the capture of the enemy base. If a team has 50% or greater Tanks that camp the chance of capturing the enemy base are next to none.

 

Regards

 


Edited by IKEWIN, Dec 07 2017 - 20:35.


Boxhawk #48 Posted Dec 07 2017 - 21:49

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This is kind of a dumb post.  I could make a whole series of them about dying in the first 30 seconds, about being afraid to take a hit, about not angling your tank properly, you name it there is a bad things that players do.

IKEWIN #49 Posted Dec 08 2017 - 01:11

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View PostBoxhawk, on Dec 07 2017 - 21:49, said:

This is kind of a dumb post.  I could make a whole series of them about dying in the first 30 seconds, about being afraid to take a hit, about not angling your tank properly, you name it there is a bad things that players do.

 

Would not expect anything different from one of the biggest camping clans around

 

The fact that you do not feel this is important or that u insult the post as stupid shows you have problem with camping being brought to the attention of wargaming and the community.

 

See you on the pitch

 

 


Edited by IKEWIN, Dec 08 2017 - 01:12.


Aknazer #50 Posted Dec 08 2017 - 01:31

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View PostIKEWIN, on Dec 07 2017 - 20:21, said:

 

​Dear Sir. You keep bringing up Tank Destroyer. My poll and comments have nothing to do with TD who are expected to camp. This is about TANKS not TDs. 

 

Thank you for the feedback but please stay on topic. This camping beef is not about TD its about tanks. 

 

Regards IKEWIN

 

It can be applied to more than just TDs.  Any of the "sniper" and "second line" tanks could do this stuff.  LTs can potentially do this stuff and still actually be spotting depending on the location and their VR.  If the match has no/few TDs then it isn't uncommon to see non-TDs in these locations (or sometimes even when there are plenty of TDs).  My point is just because a tank isn't/can't currently engage the enemy and thus appears to be camping doesn't mean that they aren't helping the team by guarding a flank.

 

Also TDs are still tanks, it's just a sub-category just like LT, med, and HT.  SPGs are the only non-tank class and I haven't talked about them at all.



Diomidis #51 Posted Dec 08 2017 - 01:56

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There is camping and there is "hiding and waiting". I can camp the front line. 

So of course I voted "yes it affects the game", but it is like saying "does aiming the gun affect the game" or "does leaving base affect the game". Of course it does. Which way does it affect the game is the REAL question.

 

And of course the answer to the "REAL" question is "it depends". 

 

Players will seek what they assume gives them an advantage. Perhaps they are wrong, but they will always seek the "safe® bet", be it unicums or "tomatoes": they all think they are making a play that gives them the best chances for winning.



_Red_Saaryn_ #52 Posted Dec 08 2017 - 02:17

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Some maps are heavily focused in camping, for example the map with a city that has a broad road to the right, a few hills to the left and a city in middle but more to the right next to the broad road there is a circle in the open like a coliseum, most go straight city, some camp in the road but usually when they leave that circle unprotected half enemy team flank them and win, in a match I held my position protecting that place since I was the only one with a max dicker we lost the battle but I killed 4 and did  3000 damage before they all went to hate rape me by arty and shots from everywhere of everyone

IKEWIN #53 Posted Dec 22 2017 - 08:32

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View PostDiomidis, on Dec 08 2017 - 01:56, said:

There is camping and there is "hiding and waiting". I can camp the front line. 

So of course I voted "yes it affects the game", but it is like saying "does aiming the gun affect the game" or "does leaving base affect the game". Of course it does. Which way does it affect the game is the REAL question.

 

And of course the answer to the "REAL" question is "it depends". 

 

Players will seek what they assume gives them an advantage. Perhaps they are wrong, but they will always seek the "safe® bet", be it unicums or "tomatoes": they all think they are making a play that gives them the best chances for winning.

 

​Dude your definition is of hiding. CAMPING is hiding at the spawn or close to it by tanks. Your answer is well REAL donkey dung.



_Tsavo #54 Posted Dec 22 2017 - 15:34

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A few things:

 

View PostIKEWIN, on Dec 07 2017 - 14:32, said:

 

Dear Sir.

 

This is not about TDs it is about Tanks. Please stay on topic.

I agree with your points but when the Tanks hide with the TDs a team is going to have a problem. In many cases I see heavies mediums and lites hiding behind the TDS. This is the issue the Tanks that play like TDS. There are often times valid reasons for this.  One needs to be flexible and know when to press on and when to fall back.  Lots of players have no idea when to do either and thus tend to be in the wrong position at the wrong time.  If I'm back behind a TD, there's a reason for it, and most decent players will have a reason for it.  Being up front is not always the solution.

 

This behavior has more to do with the reward for a Tank hiding with the TDs. Tanks who do damage over 300 meters should not receive the same credit rate as a TD who does the same damage as a Tank at over 300meters. 

 

If the Tanks doing damage from a distance over 300 meters received lets say 1/2 the credits and xp they would if the damage was done at less than 300 meters I believe this would have a huge impact on Tanks camping. Tanks that camp should receive less rewards than tanks that advance in the game. I believe this would be a easy solution to Tanks camping. If a tanker got a lower rating (stats suffered) cause they are camping then I believe that camping by tanks would be severely hindered.  This is a bad idea, there are too many times where engaging from distance is the right thing to do, so arbitrarily punishing that is a fairly dumb suggestion.

 

As it stands now your statistic as a Tank are better if you camp. This however defeats one goal of the game which is the capture of the enemy base. If a team has 50% or greater Tanks that camp the chance of capturing the enemy base are next to none.

 

INCORRECT.  Capping is not the one goal of the game, its one of two goals you are presented with for winning the game.  Killing all the enemies or capping.  Killing is the most reliable way for winning with capping be a secondary tool for victories.  If you just play to cap, you're not going to have much success.

 

Regards

 

 

Now, to be fair, you did make me chuckle at the line "This however defeats the one goal of the which is the capture of the enemy base" that was a good one.


Edited by _Tsavo, Dec 22 2017 - 15:50.


Vanatee #55 Posted Dec 22 2017 - 15:48

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Its nearly as big a problem as below average players constantly passing judgement on the actions of everyone else on the team and saying who is playing wrong while at the same time losing more than half their games playing the 'right' way.  Sure, a heavy tank hanging out with the SPGS all game is useless, but just as often someone yolo's the enemy, dies, then ping spams the other mediums/heavies/etc and can't fathom why everyone else isn't up dying with them on the beach of overlord or some other crap.

LOL_i_CLICKED_u #56 Posted Dec 22 2017 - 18:45

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Make it like Pubg but with larger maps than we currently have. Yes, arty would have to move too.

highlandwolf #57 Posted Dec 22 2017 - 19:13

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last night i saw in a match a heavy, light AND td's all camping near the base on one side..they were the first to die and then they rolled over the arty at base and came after the rest..by that time we were about 7 down and well it went bad from there..so YES...camping is a problem

Trauglodyte #58 Posted Dec 22 2017 - 19:26

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View PostIKEWIN, on Dec 05 2017 - 21:26, said:

I have played 26 000 games. I believe that camping is a serious problem WoT refuses to address in MM and RNG.

 

1. When a "tank" never leaves the spawn or hides with the TDs at the back it basically puts the entire team at a disadvantage. When the team consist of more than 50% camper tanks in Random Battles a team the odds of winning are greatly reduced.

 

2. Camping at the back of the map is effectively providing the enemy team with the teams positions and result in forward player getting swarm killed when the enemy deducts they are easy to pick off.

 

3. Camper by the nature/style of play abandoned the objective of capturing the enemy Base.

 

4. Campers make it impossible for their team mates to advance past the center of any map.  If you do advance past the center of the map the campers will never see or hit the enemies your fighting cause the enemies are out of radio range.

 

5. I am not talking about yolo I am talking about the ability to advance or count on support is not there when to many players camp.

 

 

WG should add intermittent artillery barrages that do little damage just to encourage people to move.  Will never happen but it should.

Mikosah #59 Posted Dec 22 2017 - 19:53

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Generally speaking, passive play is easier and less risky than active play. And inevitably there will be situations where passive positioning is well-rewarded even in spite of the above. Doesn't even matter which class we're talking about, all of them occasionally experience the same phenomenon (except arty, for whom low-risk and low-effort are the norm).

 

So your typical new guy quickly learns not to stick his neck out. And why should he? Until he learns more advanced techniques that allow him to employ active play effectively, he'll be doing more harm than good both to himself and to his team if he plays aggressively. If WG wants that to change, many game mechanics will have to be rebuilt from the ground up. 



Scanjoon #60 Posted Dec 22 2017 - 20:04

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Block Quote

WG should add intermittent artillery barrages that do little damage just to encourage people to move.  Will never happen but it should. 

 

The day that WoT begins to dictate or force how a player should play is the day that WoT can turn out the lights and lock the door. 






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