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Match Maker Says... M4 mle. 45 = T29


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g4143 #1 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 02:30

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I noticed that most times when I play my AMX M4 mle. 45 the MM will give the enemy team a T29 for the same slot. Have you compared the features of the AMX M4 mle. 45 to the T29? The T29 is a beast compared to the AMX M4 mle. 45. The AMX M4 mle. 45 is a soft target. I've faced both the AMX M4 mle. 45 and the T29 when playing my AMX M4 mle. 45 and I can tell you that every shot fired at the enemy AMX M4 mle. 45 penetrated and most shots on the enemy T29 bounced, ricocheted or didn't penetrated. How can the MM equate these two tanks when all their stats are pretty equal except armour... Yeah armour. The T29 is cloaked in heavy amour but can still go as fast as the AMX M4 mle.

 

Just to compare...

 

90/40/40 mm Hull Armor
100/70/40 mm Turret Armor

 

 

 

102/76/51 mm Hull Armor
279.4/127/102 mm Turret Armor


FrozenKemp #2 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 02:31

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Please just go away.

FrozenKemp #3 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 02:32

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Also:

 



g4143 #4 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 02:33

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View PostFrozenKemp, on Dec 06 2017 - 02:31, said:

Please just go away.

 

You first!

g4143 #5 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 02:34

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View PostFrozenKemp, on Dec 06 2017 - 02:32, said:

Also:

 

 

And here come the trolls.  You think this forum would control the trolls.



Hellsfog #6 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 02:35

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Use the 105, spam gold for the 10% damage bonus, shoot T29 in the hull, profit.

g4143 #7 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 02:37

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View PostHellsfog, on Dec 06 2017 - 02:35, said:

Use the 105, spam gold for the 10% damage bonus, shoot T29 in the hull, profit.

 

Here let me quote WarGaming's docs for the T29

 

"Generally considered one of the best tanks of its tier, if not downright overpowered, the T29 is a solid combination of firepower, armor and mobility..."

 

Now what do the docs say about the AMX mle. 45?

 

"The AMX M4 45 can be considered an evolution of its predecessor play-style. It uses the same guns as the ARL 44, which are less outstanding for its tier, but with improved rate of fire, accuracy, and aim time. Although the M4 45 sports better track protection, its overall armor is weaker than the ARL 44's, and very poor for its tier. However, it receives fairly good mobility for a heavy tank in exchange, and is fairly effective in a supporting role, setting the pattern for future French heavy tanks. "

 

Yeah! Equal.


Edited by g4143, Dec 06 2017 - 02:39.


Hellsfog #8 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 02:41

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View Postg4143, on Dec 05 2017 - 20:37, said:

 

Here let me quote WarGaming's docs for the T29

 

"Generally considered one of the best tanks of its tier, if not downright overpowered, the T29 is a solid combination of firepower, armor and mobility..."

 

It is a very good tank.  I'm telling you how play better against it.  You don't have to listen but I don't imagine you're having much fun playing the way you are. Maybe try something different. 

Hellsfog #9 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 02:48

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View Postg4143, on Dec 05 2017 - 20:37, said:

 

Here let me quote WarGaming's docs for the T29

 

"Generally considered one of the best tanks of its tier, if not downright overpowered, the T29 is a solid combination of firepower, armor and mobility..."

 

Now what do the docs say about the AMX mle. 45?

 

"The AMX M4 45 can be considered an evolution of its predecessor play-style. It uses the same guns as the ARL 44, which are less outstanding for its tier, but with improved rate of fire, accuracy, and aim time. Although the M4 45 sports better track protection, its overall armor is weaker than the ARL 44's, and very poor for its tier. However, it receives fairly good mobility for a heavy tank in exchange, and is fairly effective in a supporting role, setting the pattern for future French heavy tanks. "

 

Yeah! Equal.

 

Nice  ninja edit.  My advice is still good. You can listen and do better or continue to flounder, which doesn't seem to be much fun but as you like. 

ArtofTanks #10 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 02:49

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Spoiler

so are you suggesting that mm waits for the exact same tank to oppose you every time since no 2 tanks are alike?  How about crews should they wait until the exact same tank has the same crew then equipment, and so on?

 

 

 


utgotye #11 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 02:51

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It's matched up with the Tiger (P) as well which is a POS and is probably the worst tier VII heavy that doesn't start with Black and end in Prince (though I actually liked the BP to be honest).  The T29 is an easy out unless he's hull down.  Remember, the accuracy on his gun is trollish and will miss seemingly at random for no reason whatsoever.  Use the 105mm, shoot gold as needed and DPM him to death.  Use your superior mobility and HP to your advantage.

Hellsfog #12 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 02:55

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View Postutgotye, on Dec 05 2017 - 20:51, said:

It's matched up with the Tiger (P) as well which is a POS and is probably the worst tier VII heavy that doesn't start with Black and end in Prince (though I actually liked the BP to be honest).  The T29 is an easy out unless he's hull down.  Remember, the accuracy on his gun is trollish and will miss seemingly at random for no reason whatsoever.  Use the 105mm, shoot gold as needed and DPM him to death.  Use your superior mobility and HP to your advantage.

 

Shoot gold because, like the tier 6, the gold round on the M4 45 does 10% more damage and has more pen. 



g4143 #13 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 02:58

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View Postutgotye, on Dec 06 2017 - 02:51, said:

It's matched up with the Tiger (P) as well which is a POS and is probably the worst tier VII heavy that doesn't start with Black and end in Prince (though I actually liked the BP to be honest).  The T29 is an easy out unless he's hull down.  Remember, the accuracy on his gun is trollish and will miss seemingly at random for no reason whatsoever.  Use the 105mm, shoot gold as needed and DPM him to death.  Use your superior mobility and HP to your advantage.

 

And what does WarGaming's docs say?

 

"While in stock form, its 7.5 cm KwK 42 L/70 is insufficient for targets above its tier. Once its accurate and powerful 8.8 cm KwK 43 L/71 is mounted, the Tiger (P) becomes a real sniper, capable of destroying higher tier tanks. Its unusually thick hull armor and the 100mm thick mantlet covering the frontal 100mm plate of the upgraded turret makes it hard for many enemy tanks to penetrate frontally. It has a slightly different game style compared to its cousin, the Pz.Kpfw. VI Tiger; it has less engine power, the same weapons, a lower rate of fire, a lot more armor on the front, and lower top speed. Like the PzKpfw VI Tiger, the Tiger (P) excels as a sniper, though with its 200mm thick hull front, it is capable of leading the charge if required. "

 

Words like excels..



Kamahl1234 #14 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 03:05

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View Postg4143, on Dec 06 2017 - 01:37, said:

 

Here let me quote WarGaming's docs for the T29

 

"Generally considered one of the best tanks of its tier, if not downright overpowered, the T29 is a solid combination of firepower, armor and mobility..."

 

Now what do the docs say about the AMX mle. 45?

 

"The AMX M4 45 can be considered an evolution of its predecessor play-style. It uses the same guns as the ARL 44, which are less outstanding for its tier, but with improved rate of fire, accuracy, and aim time. Although the M4 45 sports better track protection, its overall armor is weaker than the ARL 44's, and very poor for its tier. However, it receives fairly good mobility for a heavy tank in exchange, and is fairly effective in a supporting role, setting the pattern for future French heavy tanks. "

 

Yeah! Equal.

 

It's almost like they have different roles on the battlefield or something!

 

*gasps*



g4143 #15 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 03:17

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View PostKamahl1234, on Dec 06 2017 - 03:05, said:

 

It's almost like they have different roles on the battlefield or something!

 

*gasps*

 

Please educate us. What are the roles and please don't stop at simple quotes from the docs and then demonstrate how that makes them equal. Note: If you'll compare the stats of both tanks you note one can't preform certain roles without exiting the game promptly and the other doesn't have that limitation.... so equal?

Edited by g4143, Dec 06 2017 - 03:17.


xSzikll #16 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 03:18

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Or when the mm pairs 3 autoloader heavy tanks vs super heavies.

utgotye #17 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 03:19

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View Postg4143, on Dec 05 2017 - 19:58, said:

 

And what does WarGaming's docs say?

 

"While in stock form, its 7.5 cm KwK 42 L/70 is insufficient for targets above its tier. Once its accurate and powerful 8.8 cm KwK 43 L/71 is mounted, the Tiger (P) becomes a real sniper, capable of destroying higher tier tanks. Its unusually thick hull armor and the 100mm thick mantlet covering the frontal 100mm plate of the upgraded turret makes it hard for many enemy tanks to penetrate frontally. It has a slightly different game style compared to its cousin, the Pz.Kpfw. VI Tiger; it has less engine power, the same weapons, a lower rate of fire, a lot more armor on the front, and lower top speed. Like the PzKpfw VI Tiger, the Tiger (P) excels as a sniper, though with its 200mm thick hull front, it is capable of leading the charge if required. "

 

Words like excels..

 

The gun isn't a DPM gun because it still has a 7+ sec reload.  It's not an alpha gun either.  The L71 is neither powerful, nor all that accurate with a tragic 2.5 sec aim time (w/ GLD); you can't snap shot real well with it either because the turret turns so slowly.  The frontal armor is quite good but that's about the only thing it has going for it.  There's still 120ish effective weak spots that can be hit from the front, as well as the giant cupola.  The turret is OK but it's still easily penned from the front by equal tier tanks.  The top speed might be 35 but you will never get there with such a piss poor engine and ground resistances.  The gun depression is awful and the front mounted turret makes side scraping impossible unless you do it in reverse.  Considering the average player can't do it well facing forward, that's asking a lot.


Edited by utgotye, Dec 06 2017 - 03:20.


Kamahl1234 #18 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 03:25

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View Postg4143, on Dec 06 2017 - 02:17, said:

 

Please educate us. What are the roles and please don't stop at simple quotes from the docs and then demonstrate how that makes them equal. Note: If you'll compare the stats of both tanks you note one can't preform certain roles without exiting the game promptly and the other doesn't have that limitation.... so equal?

 

Are you trying to imply that both tanks being the same tier, and both being heavies that this means they must perform the same roles?

 

I'm not sure how you got to tier 7 and didn't notice that there's sub-classes via tank roles. For example, a IS is not the same role as a Tiger H, one is a brawler, the other a sniper. 

 

 

For the tanks you mention, the T29 is suited to be hull down and brawling, where the turret takes the focus and it can use its gun to best effect. While the M4 45 is designed for medium-long range support engagements, where ideally it's not the focus of the enemy and can use its relative speediness to engage at different angles. It also helps that it gets decent guns as one is high pen and quite accurate, the other has much higher damage at the cost of some pen (this is especially true as the 105mm has increased damage over the AP). 



g4143 #19 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 03:26

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View Postutgotye, on Dec 06 2017 - 03:19, said:

 

The gun isn't a DPM gun because it still has a 7+ sec reload.  It's not an alpha gun either.  The L71 is neither powerful, nor all that accurate with a tragic 2.5 sec aim time (w/ GLD); you can't snap shot real well with it either because the turret turns so slowly.  The frontal armor is quite good but that's about the only thing it has going for it.  There's still 120ish effective weak spots that can be hit from the front, as well as the giant cupola.  The turret is OK but it's still easily penned from the front by equal tier tanks.  The top speed might be 35 but you will never get there with such a piss poor engine and ground resistances.  The gun depression is awful and the front mounted turret makes side scraping impossible unless you do it in reverse.  Considering the average player can't do it well facing forward, that's asking a lot.

 

Have you looked at the docs for the AMX M4 45? I think you should.

g4143 #20 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 03:28

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View PostKamahl1234, on Dec 06 2017 - 03:25, said:

 

Are you trying to imply that both tanks being the same tier, and both being heavies that this means they must perform the same roles?

 

I'm not sure how you got to tier 7 and didn't notice that there's sub-classes via tank roles. For example, a IS is not the same role as a Tiger H, one is a brawler, the other a sniper. 

 

 

For the tanks you mention, the T29 is suited to be hull down and brawling, where the turret takes the focus and it can use its gun to best effect. While the M4 45 is designed for medium-long range support engagements, where ideally it's not the focus of the enemy and can use its relative speediness to engage at different angles. It also helps that it gets decent guns as one is high pen and quite accurate, the other has much higher damage at the cost of some pen (this is especially true as the 105mm has increased damage over the AP). 

 

But the T29 has the same numbers or better for mobility and it doesn't explain why WarGaming buff's and nerf's tanks. If  your point had traction then WarGaming won't be tweeting the stats.

Edited by g4143, Dec 06 2017 - 03:33.





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