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STG Gaurd Inquiry


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SpitYoYoMafia #41 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 19:48

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View Postdir32jd, on Dec 06 2017 - 10:42, said:

 

just one of those features doesn't make a tank OP by itself then.. it would need all of that.

 

 

Not necessarily all of it, but at least 2 categories to an extreme. For example, the stupid T9 and T10 japanese heavies are impenetrable unless you fling gold, on top of that they get derp guns that they don't have to aim at weak spots with and do as much damage as the average guns at their tiers do killing crew members and breaking modules at the same time. To add insult to injury, it's P2W with the gold round doing more damage than the regular round. It takes no skill to play at all, drive forward, auto aim/snap shot and fire, gg wp.

 

That's what an OP tank looks like. The STG's alpha isn't even special and it will be forced to fight nothing but T9s and T10's. The armor is basically auto pen for those tanks and it doesn't have good gun depression either. So it only has one thing that is even useful that isn't even that great.

 

The tank isn't bad, but it's far from being OP.



I_QQ_4_U #42 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 19:54

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View Postdir32jd, on Dec 06 2017 - 19:42, said:

 

just one of those features doesn't make a tank OP by itself then.. it would need all of that.

 

 

Uh, yeah, that's what I said.

Aknazer #43 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 20:39

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View Postdir32jd, on Dec 06 2017 - 19:42, said:

 

just one of those features doesn't make a tank OP by itself then.. it would need all of that.

 

 

It wouldn't need all of it, it depends on a combination of things.  A tank with stupid armor, decent/good mobility, and a reasonable gun could be OP.  Why?  Because it has enough armor to survive even when flanked, has the mobility to help prevent being flanked (or if flanked then the mobility helps it turn faster which creates odd angles for it's stupid armor which leads to better survivability), can reposition well enough, and between the armor and gun is better able to trade shots.  Especially if the gun is higher alpha and slower reload since that means it can finish someone off easier due to how high alpha works (doesn't matter if you can only fire every 20 seconds if the target is dead after the second shot which can let you beat a "higher DPM" tank for example).

Komitadjie #44 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 20:44

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I can't really make my STG perform, sadly. Scorp has a very good review on it, some guys can make it work well, I just can't. Not enough armor if survive up close, gun takes a month to aim and has really bad bloom issues along with low shell velocity so it's hard to snipe with...

Generally it feels like a tank that's trying hard to be a TD, and failing.

SmirkingGerbil #45 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 21:00

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View PostDrexMaverick, on Dec 06 2017 - 10:09, said:

 

Me I'm the source. Its called experience! And I've seen tons of other complaints about the many changes they make to tanks after they are bought and become popular ...

 

I have more than twice the battles you have, probably more premiums (or standard tech tree), so by your proclamation I should be the ultimate source for all tank design and MM/balance issues, oh wait, that would be StinkyGreen.

galspanic #46 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 21:40

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View Postdir32jd, on Dec 06 2017 - 09:35, said:

 

pretty op when you compare them to the only other two options (considering the best gun handling) and compare them to all the other tier 8 premium mediums (considering the gun's big damage). please try again without the [edited]reply.

 

That's like saying my weak [edited]is OP compared to a couple of 8 year olds - just because I am stronger than an 8 year old doesn't mean I am am strong. The STG is not a strong tank.  If someone cam up to me offering either of the 3 tier 8 Soviet tanks for free, I would take the STG.  But being the best of something disappointingly weak doesn't make it "OP."

dir32jd #47 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 21:45

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View Postgalspanic, on Dec 06 2017 - 12:40, said:

 

That's like saying my weak [edited]is OP compared to a couple of 8 year olds - just because I am stronger than an 8 year old doesn't mean I am am strong. The STG is not a strong tank.  If someone cam up to me offering either of the 3 tier 8 Soviet tanks for free, I would take the STG.  But being the best of something disappointingly weak doesn't make it "OP."

 

I said it was OP compared to the other options, not OP compared to every tank you could choose.

your argument could be simply reversed.. if an 8 year old was stronger than you, you would be considered weak.

 



galspanic #48 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 22:00

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View Postdir32jd, on Dec 06 2017 - 12:45, said:

 

I said it was OP compared to the other options, not OP compared to every tank you could choose.

your argument could be simply reversed.. if an 8 year old was stronger than you, you would be considered weak.

 

 

It's not OP though.  Maybe just P.  And even then, the 44-100 is probably better.  Stats say so at least:
http://www.vbaddict....t_ratio&server=

Let's assume that there's some wiggle room in there... the farthest stretch one could make is that the STG is as strong as the 44-100.

dir32jd #49 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 22:04

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View Postgalspanic, on Dec 06 2017 - 13:00, said:

 

It's not OP though.  Maybe just P.  And even then, the 44-100 is probably better.  Stats say so at least:
http://www.vbaddict....t_ratio&server=

Let's assume that there's some wiggle room in there... the farthest stretch one could make is that the STG is as strong as the 44-100.

 

When I said other options I didn't mean it as options for a russian medium. I meant compared to the other big alpha mediums (T-34-3 / M4A1 Rev)

galspanic #50 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 22:10

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View Postdir32jd, on Dec 06 2017 - 13:04, said:

 

When I said other options I didn't mean it as options for a russian medium. I meant compared to the other big alpha mediums (T-34-3 / M4A1 Rev)

 

But why exactly is that the comparison?  It seems like a more relevant comparison would be all tier 8 premiums or Soviets only since those would be their competition.

The STG is a fine tank but there's really no metric that will give you the conclusion that it's "OP" unless you look at its gun stats on paper, and even then it doesn't really seem to stand above the crowd when you look at all the soft stats.  Ultimately, win rate is the thing I judge a tank by though.



dir32jd #51 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 22:15

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View Postgalspanic, on Dec 06 2017 - 13:10, said:

 

But why exactly is that the comparison?  It seems like a more relevant comparison would be all tier 8 premiums or Soviets only since those would be their competition.

The STG is a fine tank but there's really no metric that will give you the conclusion that it's "OP" unless you look at its gun stats on paper, and even then it doesn't really seem to stand above the crowd when you look at all the soft stats.  Ultimately, win rate is the thing I judge a tank by though.

 

If you only look into buying a big alpha medium because most of the tier 8 mediums won't do well in tier 10 matchmaking as everyone has said.. I would think this one is at the top of the list being the best of the other two. Has the best gun handling which is really nice with a 122mm.

If the only thing that matters is wins then what's the point in a lot of decent premiums that can do well.


Edited by dir32jd, Dec 06 2017 - 22:15.


galspanic #52 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 22:27

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Where are you getting these gun handling stats?  It looks like they are worse on my end.

Gang_Starr #53 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 23:36

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View Postdir32jd, on Dec 06 2017 - 16:15, said:

 

Has the best gun handling which is really nice with a 122mm.

 

Please do your research before spewing nonsense. The Guard has the worst gun handling values of the three tanks. The only thing it does better is it's more accurate when 100% fully aimed in. Please refresh yourself on what "gun handling" means and how it works: https://tanks.gg/com...t-34-3~m4a1-rev

 

Posted Image



Komitadjie #54 Posted Dec 06 2017 - 23:48

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The gun handling is what really keeps me from enjoying the tank. The lack of armor and really bad DPM I could work with, but the horrible gun handling just lets what could be a really fun vehicle down badly.

EmperorJuliusCaesar #55 Posted Dec 07 2017 - 06:44

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View PostDrexMaverick, on Dec 06 2017 - 07:51, said:

I really like the looks of this tank, but I wonder whether its worth the buy with the current poor Tier 8 MM and I don't just want to add another failed premium experience to my list of disappointments. Sure I imagine it's OP attributes will be nerfed soon enough, but as it is right now, how does it hold up against Tier 10?

 

Just like most tier 8 prems, the near constant tier 10 MM makes it to where it doesn't make as much money, nor is much fun to play.  Until they remove the ability for people to uncheck "Grand Battles", tier 8 MM is going to suck.



the_dude_76 #56 Posted Dec 07 2017 - 20:36

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View PostDrexMaverick, on Dec 06 2017 - 16:02, said:

 

Well that's a lie because they did it every tank I ever purchased

 

I'm not going to accuse you of lying even though you're as wrong as you could possibly be. I can't even remember the last time WG nerfed a premium tank.

the_dude_76 #57 Posted Dec 07 2017 - 20:46

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View PostHOTA_CHATON, on Dec 06 2017 - 17:26, said:

 

  The Super Pershing only had a single MM of total armor removed from the hull and turret so that really does not qualify as a nerf.  

 

It was enough of a change to prompt them to offer a refund to anyone who had it

 

https://worldoftanks...nges-86-update/

 



dir32jd #58 Posted Dec 07 2017 - 21:43

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View Postthe_dude_76, on Dec 07 2017 - 11:36, said:

 

I'm not going to accuse you of lying even though you're as wrong as you could possibly be. I can't even remember the last time WG nerfed a premium tank.

 

besides the two that everyone knows of (SuperPershing & Type 59)..

didn't the Panther 88 get a nerf? I thought they got a refund originally for that tank



the_dude_76 #59 Posted Dec 07 2017 - 23:22

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View Postdir32jd, on Dec 07 2017 - 20:43, said:

 

besides the two that everyone knows of (SuperPershing & Type 59)..

didn't the Panther 88 get a nerf? I thought they got a refund originally for that tank

 

Not that I recall and I doubt it since it was pretty underwhelming before it got buffed

dir32jd #60 Posted Dec 07 2017 - 23:26

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View Postthe_dude_76, on Dec 07 2017 - 14:22, said:

 

Not that I recall and I doubt it since it was pretty underwhelming before it got buffed

 

http://forum.worldof...-premium-tanks/

according to this post a lot more tanks than just the Type 59 and SuperPershing got nerfed.

They talk about the STA-2, Lowe and T34 specifically 






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