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Artillery absolutely integral to game-quit whining


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sksmith #1 Posted Dec 31 2017 - 16:47

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I've said this before, and the artillery whining continues unabated.  Without artilery, WoT would be an utterly boring, one-dimensional game that would quickly get stale and die.  Artillery must stay in the game.

 

I'll simplify a bit, but the basic structure of a WoT battle is: there are three vehicle classes: artillery, scouts, and fighters (at vehicles, mediums, and heavies).  Those three have different functions, and the interaction between them creates a team and not just individual game.  What are the roles of the three classes?

 

Scouts: first, win the scout fight-defeat enemy scouts, or drive them into fighters (where they will lose being light tanks against meds and heavies).  After this is accomplished, zip forward, and either spot enemy fighters, or enemy artillery (and destroy it, or light it up for friendly artillery). Scouts have secondary purposes (light up enemy fighters, and participate in the direct firefight as flankers), but they are primarily there to win the first phase of the battle.  Winning or losing that first phase shapes the entire rest of the battle (it may not win it or lose it, but it shapes it).

 

Artillery; obviously shoot at enemy fighters and break deadlocks (there's nothign wrong with shooting at scouts, but scouts should be moving and thus are more difficult to hit).

 

Fighters: though you don't want to admit it, fighters have the least interesting role in the battle-choose an avenue of approach, drive forward, and shoot at what you see.  If you just guess a particular avenue of approach, as a general rule, you will win or lose based on how the enemy guessed (3 v 3 will be roughly a draw: 1 v 3 should be a win for the 3, and so on).  Particularly for slow heavies: your one important decision is made at the beginning of the battle (go left, go center, or go right?).  When I first started playing, I ground in order to get the KV-1.  When I got it, I was utterly bored-rumble forward for 4 minutes, then shoot basically straight ahead?  How is this fun?

Note that if your scouts have won their battle, and you take the time to use the information they provided to make your decision (left, center, or right), you make an informed decision (set up a 3 v 1 rather than a 1 v 3, and win).  That doesn't often happen (people just tend to rumble forward whereever they want, without looking at the minimap to aid in their decisions), but in a good team game, fighters would use scouts' information to shape their decisions.

 

The point of all this is with the three classes, WoT is a team game, in which each individual tank is dependent on other tanks, and other classes, for victory.  If scouts just fight a scout fight (2 v 2, or 3 v 3) it is generally an irrelevant draw between weaker, light tanks.  They need a reason to fight that scout fight-to win and provide information to artillery (and fighters).  Without it, they are just little, weak, fast tanks.  Spotting for artillery, and spotting for fighters, and breaking through to hunt artillery, has to be important to justify their existence.

  And artillery has to be powerful-it has to have the ability to impact the frontline battle-otherwise scouts have no reason to hunt them down, and frontline battles just devolve into a 3 v 3 sniping exercise (peak around rock, shoot, back up.  Repeat).

  The fighters, while the heart of the game, need those other classes in order to have an interesting battle experience.  We have all had battles where that particular chokepoint is nothing but mediums/heavies.  Peak over the ridge (or around the rock), shoot, backup.  There are enough fighters that it is impossible to flank, and the armor is strong and equal enough that each shot does a bit (say, 25%) of damage.  Just 15 minutes of hunt and peck.  It is utterly uninteresting.  I can't remember the names of the maps, but several choke points are: the east edge of the map with a huge mountain with the lighthouse-often lights drive up it for sighting purposes, and 3-4 tanks peak around the east side (with the cliff just east of that).  The central ridgelines on Prokhorovka and the fisherman's village.  The east avenue on the arctic map.  Just a clump of tanks peaking around the corners to get a quick shot off.  Utterly boring.

 

Artillery has to be in it-otherwise there is no team, or systemic, condition that impacts the whole battlefield.  Scouts have to be in it, in order to find enemy artillery and free up your own artillery to break the deadlock.  

 

If there is a complaint to be made, it is about the map design.  Too many maps are really pretty poor, with not many avenues of approach (and thus limited opportuniites for flanking, scout breakthroughs, etc).  Think of all the maps with a central ridge that results in a boring deadlock (Prokhorovka is the worst, but the fisherman's village is another one).  Maps should be designed with multiple independent avenues of approach-so that maneuver decisions make a difference (down this valley or the other one?  If I make the wrong choice, I might be flanked-and I can't get back to the other avenue easily).  One map that is now out of rotation (tundra, or northwest, or something-it had logging camps on a hilly map) had excellent maneuver choices.  Several maps have as few as three avenues of approach (I think Prokhorovka realistically has two-the field in the west, and the town/hill in the east).  Horrible design.  A map with 4+ independent avenues of approach is what makes a good game.

 

But a game without artillery (and thus, for all intents and purposes, without a meaningful use for scouts) would be a boring, deadlocked, stagnant game.  I'd say the ideal vehicle count would be

3 artilery, 3 scouts, and 9 of mediums/heavies/at guns.  

 



_Gungrave_ #2 Posted Dec 31 2017 - 16:51

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Hardly anyone whines about arty these days as its more about the MM.:mellow:

Edited by _Gungrave_, Dec 31 2017 - 16:55.


holdmecloserTonyDanza #3 Posted Dec 31 2017 - 16:54

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wall of text defending a skill crutch...gg

_PePe_ #4 Posted Dec 31 2017 - 16:56

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The funnest games I've played have been arty free and I cuss the rest.   

Chicago_Deepdish #5 Posted Dec 31 2017 - 16:58

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I can have,and totally enjoy any match that doesn't include arty. You forgot a class of tanks that the scouts can help. TD's make up the important second line of defense. I can see 1 arty per match to help a dead locked flank get up and get moving. 

 

The OP is  totally wrong to think any match without arty is boring.



Roburk #6 Posted Dec 31 2017 - 16:58

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Guys don’t worry his sub 50% winrate makes him an expert on game mechanics 

Treeburst #7 Posted Dec 31 2017 - 17:05

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Clickers do seem to be integral to a lot of folks quitting the game, not sure if they "whine" about it first or not though.

Duqe #8 Posted Dec 31 2017 - 17:09

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tl;dr

 

How is it integral to the game if it barely even partakes in said game? /thread



PoliticallyIncorrectName #9 Posted Dec 31 2017 - 17:13

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Don't worry OP, arty will never focus someone like you with your stats...

 

Funny how the best and most enjoyable games I've had were without any arty at all. Interesting...



xtc_ryder #10 Posted Dec 31 2017 - 17:14

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This is why arty will never be removed. It has nothing to do with game mechanics, and everything to do with keeping terribads like OP playing and paying. It gives them a class that is easy to play, does a bit of damage every game, maybe kill something, and most importantly - not die in the first 2 mins every game they play. 

holdmecloserTonyDanza #11 Posted Dec 31 2017 - 17:17

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View Postxtc_ryder, on Dec 31 2017 - 10:14, said:

This is why arty will never be removed. It has nothing to do with game mechanics, and everything to do with keeping terribads like OP playing and paying. It gives them a class that is easy to play, does a bit of damage every game, maybe kill something, and most importantly - not die in the first 2 mins every game they play. 

 

same with the ridiculous 25% rng

nuclearguy931 #12 Posted Dec 31 2017 - 17:17

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View Postxtc_ryder, on Dec 31 2017 - 10:14, said:

This is why arty will never be removed. It has nothing to do with game mechanics, and everything to do with keeping terribads like OP playing and paying. It gives them a class that is easy to play, does a bit of damage every game, maybe kill something, and most importantly - not die in the first 2 mins every game they play. 

 

Seeing as there are no premium arty vehicles available for purchase, the most a true arty player would then be paying for is premium time, makes your argument baseless.

_Promote_Synergy_ #13 Posted Dec 31 2017 - 17:19

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TLDR - skip the post and move on.

T__J #14 Posted Dec 31 2017 - 17:22

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Gota love when "inicums" yels at you :), specialy when i receiving PM's after battle because those "unicums/gold ammo spammers and stat padders", can't stop crying about being killed by my arty. So, if you that "good" and you "unicum", learn to take cover from arty !!!! AND STOP CRYING !!!.  +1 to thread author.

Edited by T__J, Dec 31 2017 - 17:22.


dominator_98 #15 Posted Dec 31 2017 - 17:23

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Removing artillery would change the game a lot less than removing any other class of vehicle, therefore SPG's are the least important class.

 

 

A second point:

 

Show me a 55%+ player who supports SPG's. You won't find any. If the players who are good at the game hate arty, arty is not good for the game.



dominator_98 #16 Posted Dec 31 2017 - 17:26

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View PostT__J, on Dec 31 2017 - 10:22, said:

Gota love when "inicums" yels at you :), specialy when i receiving PM's after battle because those "unicums/gold ammo spammers and stat padders", can't stop crying about being killed by my arty. So, if you that "good" and you "unicum", learn to take cover from arty !!!! AND STOP CRYING !!!.  +1 to thread author.

 

Yeah, take cover from a class that can hit the entire map and splash behind most obstacles and around corners. Brilliant.

 

Also for those too lazy to check, this guy is another arty main.



_PePe_ #17 Posted Dec 31 2017 - 17:27

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I made sure WG didn't get any more of my money for over a year after a minute into a battle at full speed I'm staring at the hulk of my 140.   I calmly exited the game and uninstalled.  They still aren't getting my money...  There's a lot more no skilled clickers feeding WG money than there are peeps hating on arty so it'll always be here.  

Edited by _PePe_, Dec 31 2017 - 20:52.


T__J #18 Posted Dec 31 2017 - 17:28

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View Postdominator_98, on Dec 31 2017 - 10:26, said:

 

Yeah, take cover from a class that can hit the entire map and splash behind most obstacles and around corners. Brilliant.

 

Also for those too lazy to check, this guy is another arty main.

 

And ???, i love arty dont matter if they even Nerf more, i will keep killing cry babies "unicums", 

R_Razor #19 Posted Dec 31 2017 - 17:36

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View Post_Gungrave_, on Dec 31 2017 - 10:51, said:

Hardly anyone whines about arty these days as its more about the MM.:mellow:

 

I'd say it's about 50-50 split lately. Maybe 52-48 in favor of MM. 

Duqe #20 Posted Dec 31 2017 - 17:40

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View PostT__J, on Dec 31 2017 - 17:22, said:

Gota love when "inicums" yels at you :), specialy when i receiving PM's after battle because those "unicums/gold ammo spammers and stat padders", can't stop crying about being killed by my arty. So, if you that "good" and you "unicum", learn to take cover from arty !!!! AND STOP CRYING !!!.  +1 to thread author.

 

If we sat behind cover all game, you must agree that artillery encourages camping, right?




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