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Gold spam - Here is a fix that involves no nerfs or buffs

gold premium spam skill nerf buff maps

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flowerpower210 #1 Posted Jan 06 2018 - 19:20

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Here are my 2 cents on the topic.

 

Those are not solutions:

  • Nerfing super-heavy tanks into oblivion.
  • Reducing the damage done by premium APCR & HEAT. This would put mediums at a serious disadvantage.

 

The solution is as follows (in my opinion):

​The dumbing down of maps is to blame. Most consist of two corridors and an unusable midsection. This map design was achieved overtime to appease angry heavy tank players. Let me explain.

 

- Tank destroyers could farm heavy tanks too easily. The solution was to remove cover &  reduce the engagement range by raising the ground around the corridors.

- Light tanks & medium tanks could use the view range mechanics to gain an advantage over their heavier counterparts. The solution was, again, to remove cover & improve the corridor design.

- Artillery was a problem. They could hit the slow moving tanks over & over & over again. Cover was needed. As such, large objects were placed for heavies to use as cover & the ground was raised in specific locations to prevent easy shots at choke points.

 

​This map design created  a lot of problems as it favors armored tanks & high alpha machines. Lighter tanks, low alpha tank destroyers & artillery are being cheated by the map design. To fix the balance problem, the possibility of flanking must be reintroduced via cover & improved workability of the ''non-corridor'' sections of the maps. The possibility of abusing vision must also be reintroduced. (I'm not saying that it is impossible... just rendered very situational.)

 

The maps need to be re-designed & less heavy centric. Think of Paris as a prime example. Heavy tanks brawl in a single funnel while the rest of the map is a stalemate of invisible TDs staring at eachother.


Edited by flowerpower210, Jan 06 2018 - 19:20.


DoctorThe19th #2 Posted Jan 06 2018 - 19:24

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Your examples don't make any sense as that is the point of each of those classes in comparison to heavies. Not only that but maps still exist where arty can rain down on you. Mediums and lights will still outspot you without being spotted. Tank destroyers will still shoot you in a bush without being the slight of detected.

 

Paris & Himmelsdorf (basically built for heavies) are the only maps I can recall that fit any at all of your description.

 

I'm even more confused on how the maps changing will FIX gold spam.



WhineMaker #3 Posted Jan 06 2018 - 19:25

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View Postflowerpower210, on Jan 06 2018 - 10:20, said:

<snip>

- Artillery was a problem. They could hit the slow moving tanks over & over & over again. Cover was needed. As such, large objects were placed for heavies to use as cover & the ground was raised in specific locations to prevent easy shots at choke points.

<snip>

 

Would you please let the anti arty crowd know this information!

 

According to them, there is nowhere that is arty safe. :child:



flowerpower210 #4 Posted Jan 06 2018 - 19:36

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View PostClickez4Fun, on Jan 06 2018 - 13:25, said:

 

Would you please let the anti arty crowd know this information!

 

According to them, there is nowhere that is arty safe. :child:

 

​Now arty is a problem for medium tanks and light tanks due to the massive splash radius and the unability to hurt heavy tanks XD. Artillery is another subject entirely. I was mostly pointing out that the maps evolved to suit one class of tanks.

 

View PostDoctorThe19th, on Jan 06 2018 - 13:24, said:

Your examples don't make any sense as that is the point of each of those classes in comparison to heavies. Not only that but maps still exist where arty can rain down on you. Mediums and lights will still outspot you without being spotted. Tank destroyers will still shoot you in a bush without being the slight of detected.

 

Paris & Himmelsdorf (basically built for heavies) are the only maps I can recall that fit any at all of your description.

 

I'm even more confused on how the maps changing will FIX gold spam.

 

Heavy centric maps? I recall the following + their winter versions: (all of them are not super bad... but they favor brawling)

Paris 

Himmelsdorf

Stalingrad

Winterberg

Abbey

Ensk

Lakeville

Siegfried Line

Westfield (east doesn't matter)

Kharkov

Airfield



_Michael_Corleone_ #5 Posted Jan 06 2018 - 19:39

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If you play high tiers consistently and you complain about gold spam, don't play high tiers, simple as that, yeah you'll never avoid it but learn to use it correctly :popcorn:

 

I don't complain about gold spam, I combat it and use whats called knowledge to avoid getting penned every single time...

 

Yeah maps are kinda to blame because it put tanks in superior positioning which causes the gold to come out.

 

I've thought of putting a % limit on gold rounds, like 15-30% range of all rounds could be gold?

Some minor adjustments could be used towards this method but just a thought :hiding:


Edited by Al_Scarface_Capone_, Jan 06 2018 - 19:40.


DoctorThe19th #6 Posted Jan 06 2018 - 19:39

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View Postflowerpower210, on Jan 06 2018 - 10:36, said:

Heavy centric maps? I recall the following + their winter versions: (all of them are not super bad... but they favor brawling)

Paris 

Himmelsdorf

Stalingrad

Winterberg

Abbey

Ensk

Lakeville

Siegfried Line

Westfield (east doesn't matter)

Kharkov

Airfield

 

I didn't count the winter version of Himmelsdorf, got me there but most of those don't really seem "heavy" based.

Airfield & Abbey really disagree with those two.

Half of the map having a city doesn't make it a "heavy" map IMO.


Edited by DoctorThe19th, Jan 06 2018 - 19:40.


Lucudus58 #7 Posted Jan 06 2018 - 19:52

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View PostDoctorThe19th, on Jan 06 2018 - 19:24, said:

Your examples don't make any sense as that is the point of each of those classes in comparison to heavies. Not only that but maps still exist where arty can rain down on you. Mediums and lights will still outspot you without being spotted. Tank destroyers will still shoot you in a bush without being the slight of detected.

 

Paris & Himmelsdorf (basically built for heavies) are the only maps I can recall that fit any at all of your description.

 

I'm even more confused on how the maps changing will FIX gold spam.

lol



DoctorThe19th #8 Posted Jan 06 2018 - 19:54

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View PostLucudus58, on Jan 06 2018 - 10:52, said:

lol

 

lol all you want this is all just a big scheme to try and be a arty hate thread.

flowerpower210 #9 Posted Jan 06 2018 - 20:27

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View PostDoctorThe19th, on Jan 06 2018 - 13:54, said:

 

lol all you want this is all just a big scheme to try and be a arty hate thread.

 

You got me. It was a clever plot to get rid of arty. The suggestion of making maps better was a lie.



Apache1990 #10 Posted Jan 06 2018 - 20:32

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View PostClickez4Fun, on Jan 06 2018 - 13:25, said:

Would you please let the anti arty crowd know this information!

 

According to them, there is nowhere that is arty safe. :child:

 

Arty safe spots are also known as useless camping spots with minimal influence on the game, in many cases.



hllrbrn #11 Posted Jan 07 2018 - 02:37

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View Postflowerpower210, on Jan 06 2018 - 18:20, said:

Here are my 2 cents on the topic.

 

Those are not solutions:

  • Nerfing super-heavy tanks into oblivion.
  • Reducing the damage done by premium APCR & HEAT. This would put mediums at a serious disadvantage.

 

The solution is as follows (in my opinion):

​The dumbing down of maps is to blame. Most consist of two corridors and an unusable midsection. This map design was achieved overtime to appease angry heavy tank players. Let me explain.

 

- Tank destroyers could farm heavy tanks too easily. The solution was to remove cover &  reduce the engagement range by raising the ground around the corridors.

- Light tanks & medium tanks could use the view range mechanics to gain an advantage over their heavier counterparts. The solution was, again, to remove cover & improve the corridor design.

- Artillery was a problem. They could hit the slow moving tanks over & over & over again. Cover was needed. As such, large objects were placed for heavies to use as cover & the ground was raised in specific locations to prevent easy shots at choke points.

 

​This map design created  a lot of problems as it favors armored tanks & high alpha machines. Lighter tanks, low alpha tank destroyers & artillery are being cheated by the map design. To fix the balance problem, the possibility of flanking must be reintroduced via cover & improved workability of the ''non-corridor'' sections of the maps. The possibility of abusing vision must also be reintroduced. (I'm not saying that it is impossible... just rendered very situational.)

 

The maps need to be re-designed & less heavy centric. Think of Paris as a prime example. Heavy tanks brawl in a single funnel while the rest of the map is a stalemate of invisible TDs staring at eachother.

 

This is spot on, I wish this thread had got more traction because you nailed it flowerpower. 

 

The only thing I would disagree on is that i think the coridorization of maps actually was an inadvertent buff to artillery as there are a couple of guaranteed spots where tanks are going to stop on the map for targeting. 

When we had the days of the ability to actually use more of the map in a strategy, arty would need to refocus their arc of fire to deal with different areas. Now it can focus on just a couple of areas for significant periods of time just dialed in waiting.  

 

The perceived problem with gold spam has resulted from corridors necessitating frontal engagements on top of  a +-25% RNG, and there are a significant number of players that are going to opt for a gold round even when shooting at weak spots in order to mitigate RNG. 

 

There are so many players playing tier 8 that probably needed to spend a little more time at lower tiers that every shot taken by someone a little better needs to penetrate and do damage in order to make up for their lack of experience in how to trade effectively, how to aim, knowing when to push and when to retreat, and correct tactical deployment. 

 

And firing more gold rounds means more purchase of premium time, silver, premium vehicles, and gold from the in game store.

 

Would WG really change back to a meta that did not encourage firing a round that ultimately results in monetary gain for them?  







Also tagged with gold, premium, spam, skill, nerf, buff, maps

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