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First Firearm: Good Beginners Choices


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sargev55 #21 Posted Jan 07 2018 - 04:39

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ADMIN,   I'm sorry, I was just trying to post an actual photo of good guns for beginners, but apparently, I can make two post in say 3 or 4 minutes, wargaming what the [edited]

Edited by sargev55, Jan 07 2018 - 04:39.


CPT_Flounder #22 Posted Jan 07 2018 - 04:41

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Starter Rifle i would have to agree with the .22LR any make, Learn the fundamentals of shooting. Entry level savage arms rifle would be fine, cheap and accurate. M1 would be great so would an enfield but don't the M1 is expensive and should be treated as a treasure, as should the Lee. .223 or 556n are great rounds Small rounds small recoil and accurate. Out to 600m for a trained shoot. Farther for a better shot and not as good for one lacking skills. My treasure and a wedding gift from my wife is a Sako M995. Wonderful rifle accurate and the .270 hardly kicks. good range and a high velocity selection of rounds. 

 

-.22 for beginers

.-223 versatility 

-.270 Power, Accuracy and an ability to grow your new hobby into hunting and other things.

 

Fun thread Good luck and enjoy what ever you select. 



Red_Ensign #23 Posted Jan 07 2018 - 04:43

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op, contact a gun club of some sort and see if you can show up at an event and try a few people's guns out.  the people who are certifying you almost certainly know some people.

sargev55 #24 Posted Jan 07 2018 - 04:46

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View Postrich30606, on Jan 07 2018 - 03:23, said:

WOW, It took me about 30 mins to get my carry license (Ga, USA). I can buy and carry about anything I want, as many as I want, wherever I want- short of a full auto in a federal building...America!

 

Try a Ruger 10-22 to get ya going....

 

 

 

you will never go wrong with a ruger 10/22, I picked mine up in the early 90's, it has probably seen 10,000 rounds since I have had it

 



sargev55 #25 Posted Jan 07 2018 - 04:52

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View PostDirizon, on Jan 07 2018 - 03:37, said:

Read the thread....l listed everything

 

though nonetheless cool to see, the intent here was not gun-show-and-tell.

 

​sorry, only reason I asked was because if you were close we could would hit up some ranges together.

sargev55 #26 Posted Jan 07 2018 - 05:04

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Dear admins, as a player that has played for 5 years, and generally not sucked, and has used imageshack for all phoos ever linked to this forum, I need a very good explanation as to why I now cannot upload any sort of photos.  It's not me, its your admin.

 

I have trained a lot of people in this game, and I have helped many.


​Someone here tonight blocked my image posting, I find that very uncool, especially considering I have a rather high forum rating.


Edited by sargev55, Jan 07 2018 - 05:18.


sargev55 #27 Posted Jan 07 2018 - 05:30

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Dirizon, you would be interesting to talk to, but apparently right now I am unable to load any other photos which kind of makes my other suggestions rather pointless.  Thanks admin, and why, I posted my own gun collection and you banned me from posting pics, I mean really?

rich30606 #28 Posted Jan 07 2018 - 05:32

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View Postsargev55, on Jan 07 2018 - 04:46, said:

 

 

 

you will never go wrong with a ruger 10/22, I picked mine up in the early 90's, it has probably seen 10,000 rounds since I have had it

 

 

i grew up on those tube fed .22's....

Is that a Ruger revolver in that pic?

 



Dirizon #29 Posted Jan 07 2018 - 05:35

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View Postsargev55, on Jan 07 2018 - 00:00, said:

Dirizon, you would be interesting to talk to, but apparently right now I am unable to load any other photos which kind of makes my other suggestions rather pointless.  Thanks admin, and why, I posted my own gun collection and you banned me from posting pics, I mean really?

 

I know your problem. I have t too.

Dirizon #30 Posted Jan 07 2018 - 05:37

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You haves used 498 of your allowed 5OOmbts for uploading images.

its a well known forum bug. Lots complain of it. I just post by tinypic



Klaatu_Nicto #31 Posted Jan 07 2018 - 06:48

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View PostSpartan_Striker, on Jan 06 2018 - 17:58, said:

My question is... Why ask here on an MMO inhabited by monkeys?:harp:

 

However, hope you find what you are looking for! :honoring:

 

Because a lot of people here know a lot about guns.

ChaosKampf #32 Posted Jan 10 2018 - 01:09

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Kind of surprised no one has mentioned it, but regardless of what you end up buying, the very first thing you need to learn is Gun Safety.

 

Most important of all: Treat all guns as if they are loaded, at all times, no matter if it's just a BB gun. Lots of people have killed or wounded themselves, or others, with "unloaded" guns, along with shooting through walls, ceilings, etc...

 

Even if you're pointed down-range, and preparing to take your shot at a Target, keep your finger completely away from the trigger until you are actually ready to make the shot. Get into the habit of holding your trigger finger on the side, or front of the trigger-guard until you are ready to fire. That pressure you feel on your finger from the edge of the trigger-guard will eventually act as a form of "muscle-memory" and keeping your finger there, instead of inside the trigger-guard will become second nature.

 

Always be 100% positive of what you are shooting at before you touch that trigger, and maintain awareness of what might have moved into the background behind your target while you were fiddling around with the scope magnification, or whatever. Especially if you're relying on a natural terrain feature as a back-stop, rather than a purpose-built Berm. We have to constantly keep an eye out for a neighbors dog, for example, at my family shooting range, and even when shooting at the local (rural) Gun Club that I occasionally frequent, there are still neighbors in the general area, so Cats, Dogs, and even a Donkey (once) have gotten into the line of fire over the years.

 

When shooting at a Range with other people around, before you leave the Bench, or Firing line, always empty the gun and open the action. If you stop shooting without emptying the gun, drop the Magazine, check the chamber, and lock the Slide back in the open position before turning away from the direction of the firing range. In the case of a bolt-action, levergun, pump-shotgun, Double or O/U shotgun, and other non semi-auto's, open the action, check the chamber, then leave the action open as you move back behind the firing line. With a Revolver, open the cylinder, dump the shells (fired or not), and leave the cylinder open. Some Gun clubs, especially in cities, require you to clear the gun, then stick a red or yellow plastic "Flag" in the chamber before turning around, and any time the gun is not actually in use. This is not only a good idea, and a way for others to know positively that your gun is "safe", it can also get you banned from a Range if you don't do it.

 

Another thing worth mentioning is metallic targets and jacketed bullets. When a jacketed bullet hits steel, the lead basically scatters itself, but the jacket more often than not, comes back towards the shooter. Some of the surplus ammo, especially Russian, have steel cores in them, and often enough, the steel core will go through a standard unhardened steel target, while "stripping" the jacket off and sending it straight back towards the shooter.

 

This issue is mainly a problem associated with the Handgun Sports that use steel targets, such as PPC, IPSC, CAS, or just plinking at close-range gongs or "flipper" targets. But at ranges closer than 50yds, it can be a serious problem with Rifles as well, and is something all shooters should be aware of.


Edited by ChaosKampf, Jan 10 2018 - 01:18.


Speedy_DePalma #33 Posted Jan 10 2018 - 18:40

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Looks like most posters here already beat me to it in regards to a good bolt gun choice but I'll throw my hat in as well and attest that Savage and Weatherby are some solid first timer bolt guns as well as saying one of the best choices for a Mauser style bolt system is the Ruger M77/Hawkeye series and if you're that hung up on getting something in 5.56 and you can get AR magazines then you could go with a Mossberg MVP scout rifle.

maxman1 #34 Posted Jan 10 2018 - 23:09

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View PostDirizon, on Jan 06 2018 - 20:54, said:

2) lever or bolt operation. Keep in mind, my Canadian laws are very different than Texas or Alaska. Semi automatic rifles have a lot of catches.

 

No, they really don't.

 

For Non-Restricted, a rifle or shotgun must be:

26" overall, with telescoping or folding stock (if equipped) folded/collapsed;

18.5" barrel for centre-fire semi-autos (manual actions and semi-auto rimfires are exempt, so long as the barrel was not cut down from a longer barrel);

Not be listed by name on the Restricted Weapons List (the AR-15 is the only such gun, courtesy of Pierre Trudeau) or the Prohibited Weapons List or a variant of a firearm listed on either.

 

A manual action is bolt action, lever action, pump action, break open, falling block (think Ruger No. 1 and Martini Henry), muzzleloader and so forth.

 

 

A Prohibited firearm is:

A Handgun with a barrel of 4.1"/105mm or less or chambered in .25 or .32 calibre.

 

A rifle or shotgun:

Cut down to less than 26" overall, or more than 26" but with a barrel cut down to less than 18"; or

Full auto, even if it has been permanently converted to semi-auto only; or

Anything on the Prohibited Weapons List.

 

Anything not meeting those definitions is Restricted.

 

(Also it's a Possession and Acquisition License)

 

View PostDirizon, on Jan 06 2018 - 22:24, said:

A lot of those are prohibited.

Kel Tech Carb seem cool, but are definitively illegal 

I would really like an M1 Carbine though. Low recoil

i even see you have 1 rifle in Scout Rifle scoped concept.

 

Besides the AK, they're not.

 

The Kel Tec Sub2000 and the bolt action are Non-Restricted, the two ARs, the 1911 and the SAA are Restricted. The M1A1 Carbine can be either depending on the barrel length, but is likely the milspec 18" so Restricted.

 

I'm not sure what the other rifle is, so I can't comment.

 

Auto Ordnance makes new, non-restricted M1 Carbines with 18.6" barrels, available with both the full stock and the M1A1 folding paratrooper stock. The wood tends to come dry and unstained. They're sold at a number of Canadian online stores (buying a gun online is quite easy in Canada due to the licensing system).

 

Steer clear of Universal M1 Carbines. They're notoriously poor quality, or at least once they ran out of surplus GI parts and started building their own circa 1960. They were also only available with the restricted barrel; if you're going to get a restricted M1 Carbine, it might as well be a wartime military model (or failing that, one of the better post-1960 makes like Iver Johnson).

 

Another .22 rifle to consider is the Cooey Model 64, made in Cobourg, Ontario. Cooey changed hands several times over the years, such as Lakefield, Winchester (By Olin) and currently Savage. Usually they sell for less than the 10/22.

 

The SKS and the Norinco M305 (Chinese copy of the M14) are both non-restricted and fairly cheap and available. The M305 is available in .308, but last year they introduced another version in 7.62x39mm.

 

Also consider making an account in CanadianGunNutz.com, if you haven't already. Besides large amounts of information, there's an Equipment Exchange where you can buy, sell and trade with other members.



Dirizon #35 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 01:18

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A kel tech is judged a carbine, not by the pistol ammunition it shoots or the magazine it employs, but rather altered the use of the gun and role, and its added physical properties as opposed to the handgun base structure it is built up from. The barrel is not over 18' length, the magazine is over 5 round capacity ( even over 1Ords using semi-auto pistol restrictions ) making it neither NR or R. Even pinning the magazines will not suffice.

 

Most M1 carbines are Vintage, hence feature an 18' barrel, not meeting cutoff. A 15 or 3Ord mag decidedly needs pinning, too, and automatic M2 versions need a locked selector. Universal carbines also come in a select batch of .256 mag, a necked .357, making for a decidedly stronger rifle with still mild recoil probably suitable for most mid-game and out to 2OOy, but ammunition is hard to find.

 

A .223 is my best bet.

 



Horribad_At_Tanks #36 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 02:21

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View Posttod914, on Jan 06 2018 - 22:37, said:

 

That's a good little rifle. .22 cal would be a great way to get into the hobby/sport.  Inexpensive ammo is a big plus too.  The Ruger Mini 14 in .223 would be pretty close to your M! Carbine.  Plus, a much better rifle.  .30 cal on the carbine is not a great round.

 

Maybe consider a Henry Golden boy lever action in .22 as well.  Nice looking rifle.

https://www.henryusa...les/golden-boy/

 

 

All my guns past the shotty are ruger. 10/22, mini-14 tactical and sr40 pistol with a nice mossy 500 for the rocksalt shells.

 

For the op since he thinks .223 is the way to go I would not get an ar-15 clone and instead get a new model mini-14.

 

Why? Durability, good accuracy at mid and long range with the new retooled barrels and the ability to use it as a club if you run out of ammo and go for the battle rifle garand clone stock instead of a tactical type.

 

The ar-15 is marginally more accurate and certainly more modifiable depending on the stock but it takes constant cleaning, lube and maintenance if you plan to shoot it regularly whereas the garand action on the mini-14 will last generations with nothing more than a stiff brush to the receiver and a dry copper brush down the tube every few hundred rounds if you don't use dirty ammo.

 



maxman1 #37 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 02:38

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I mixed up the Sub2000 with the SU-16, which is .223, uses AR-15 magazines and is non-restricted. However, Kel Tec does make a Canadian version with an 18.5" barrel:

https://www.tradeexc...-non-restricted

 

With that said:

 

  1. "Carbine" is not a classification in the Firearms Act. There is only "rifle", "shotgun" and "handgun". The Sub2000 is a pistol calibre rifle. Due to its barrel length of 16.1", it is Restricted.
  2. As I stated before, the barrel length cutoff is 18.5", not 18". This is specifically because the M1 Carbine has an 18" barrel.
  3. All magazines available to civilians in Canada are pinned to five rounds for rifles and ten rounds for pistols, except those exempt from magazine limits (.22 rifles, the M1 Garand, original Bren and Luger magazines, magazines for bolt action rifles). As a buyer, you do not need to even think about pinning the magazines. You will not be able to purchase full capacity magazines.
  4. The capacity of a detachable magazine does not determine the classification of a firearm in Canada.
  5. Magazines are limited based on what firearm and calibre they were designed for, not what they can be used in.A pistol magazine used in a rifle of the same calibre (such as the Beretta Cx4 Storm) is limited to ten rounds; that it is being used in a rifle is irrelevant, it was designed for a pistol. Similarly, a .40 S&W magazine will usually hold 12 or 13 9mm rounds. It is perfectly legal to use a .40 S&W magazine in a 9mm pistol. The RCMP's website spells both of these out in Bulletin No. 72.
  6. I know the original M1 Carbines have 18" barrel, that's exactly what I said in my post. And as I said above, you can't buy 15 or 30 round magazines in Canada anyway, they're pinned to five rounds before they can be sold to the public. And as I also said my previous post, Auto Ordnance is making new, non-restricted M1 Carbines with 18.6" barrels. You can also find non-restricted barrels to convert a restricted M1 Carbine to non-restricted. It's also not the end of the world to own a restricted rifle.
  7. The M2 Carbine is 12.2 Prohibited, or 12.3 if converted to semi-auto (even though the M1 and M2 receivers are identical and just use different internals). You can't buy an M2 unless you have 12.2 or 12.3 on your license, so I don't know why you brought this up.

 

https://www.tradeexc...ted-out-stock--

https://www.tradeexc...e-magazines-305

 

 

 

If you're looking for a non-restricted .223 rifle, go with the Mini-14. If you buy a new one, you'll avoid the issues from around 2008-09.



maxman1 #38 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 02:45

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View PostHorribad_At_Tanks, on Jan 10 2018 - 20:21, said:

The ar-15 is marginally more accurate and certainly more modifiable depending on the stock but it takes constant cleaning, lube and maintenance if you plan to shoot it regularly whereas the garand action on the mini-14 will last generations with nothing more than a stiff brush to the receiver and a dry copper brush down the tube every few hundred rounds if you don't use dirty ammo.

 

And the AR-15 does not need constant cleaning (look up the British L85/SA80 for real horror stories - probably the only firearm with a drill bit included in the cleaning kit). Yes, there were serious issues in Vietnam, but those can be sourced entirely to two things: the lack of a cleaning kit and DuPont using gunpowder meant for howitzers instead of the powder specified by the gun's designer, Eugene Stoner and ArmaLite. The howitzer powder burned dirty, leaving excessive carbon deposits, and burned slower, leading to case ruptures and Failures to Eject (FTE). Eugene Stoner never called it maintenance-free and in fact stated he assumed the Army would supply a cleaning kit.

 

Every firearm needs cleaning, even the Garand and derivatives, and every firearms does better with lubrication, especially the Garand system due to the design of the operating rod. Anyone who thinks metal-on-metal contact is a good thing is an idiot. For the Garand in particular pretty much every gun, use synthetic bearing grease on the the sliding surfaces and oil on the rotating points. Use less grease in the winter or you might get a 1911 slide running in slow-motion if it's cold enough.

 

For the AR-15, a light film of oil is all it needs, though it will run dry. It will not run properly if drenched in oil and will accumulate dirt and carbon. Also, as Hickok45 points out in one of his videos on his Colt AR-15A2, the AR design is extremely easy to clean, as it allows you to run a patch through from the breach.

 

And in both world wars and Korea, soldiers regularly cleaned their guns during downtime. Not doing so would incur the wrath of one's platoon sergeant.



Horribad_At_Tanks #39 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 02:46

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If the op decides to 'graduate' to 7.62 and doesn't mind paying a bit more then you can't go wrong with a Krebs Custom.

 



nub2016 #40 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 02:48

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I got a .357 lever action 2 years ago. No recoil, surprisingly accurate with iron sights out to 50 yards. I paired it with a Ruger Blackhawk in the same caliber. Fun to walk the farm and plink, same ammo is very nice. Get with an experienced friend, learn and enjoy whatever you end up with. glhf




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