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Will the end of net neutrality make WoT too expensive for many of us?


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Silversound #21 Posted Jan 08 2018 - 17:37

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View PostMr_FruitOfTheTank, on Jan 07 2018 - 21:31, said:

I'm hearing rumors, and I'm scared, guys.

 

Reading things like this makes me sad.

Turn off your television, it's making you crazy!



utgotye #22 Posted Jan 08 2018 - 20:51

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View PostStriker_70, on Jan 08 2018 - 00:22, said:


The ISP's didn't spend millions lobbying against Net Neutrality so they could lose millions of dollars lobbying.  They spent those millions because they know it's going to generate large profits for them.  Those profits are going to come from most everyone who doesn't own an ISP, including you and major websites like google.  It opens the door to making everything on the internet more expensive, and that's exactly what the ISPs want.  More money. 

 

They absolutely can afford throttling and blocking websites too.  They've already done it.  And that's why they spent millions lobbying to be able to do it.  Throttling and outright blocking of websites and services has already happened many times before, even with more protections than we have now.  Netflix was throttled a few years ago, leading to pauses and low quality video while watching netflix.  This forced Netflix to pay ISPs a boatload of money for better connections, which then in turn increased the price of netflix for everyone by 20%.

 

Other ISPs have outright blocked entire websites and services because they own competitive websites and services. Google wallet was 100% blocked by a provider because they were competition with their own service.  It's entirely possible your ISP blocks your access to this game entirely, or forces Wargaming to pay up so you can access it.  This price increase again will be passed onto you.  Same story with any game, service, or website on the internet. 

 

 

 

 

Well, part of that is/was true.  There have been instances of ISPs throttling or blocking certain things in the past.  How about now?  I can name lots of things that previously occurred that don't anymore.  And furthermore, it's less likely because the issue has been brought to the public's attention, making such practices less likely for fear of media/public backlash.

 

Google and other such major companies don't need ISP access to the Internet.  They access it through the backbone so that point is pretty much moot.  And they spent millions of dollars lobbying in order to fight the misinformation and blatant lies and scare tactics of the net neutrality side.  You know, the people that were saying that the internet would be broken, crippled, shut off or never be the same after the repeal?  Despite the fact that the internet would simply revert to 2014 era rules.  The same constant fear-mongering and crying wolf that has created climate change denial?

 

Changing Netflix for a service they need is called capitalism.  Don't like it?  Start your own ISP.

 

There's no net neutrality legislation out there thus far that attempts to do something about the actual issue here: ISP monopolies or monopolistic competition.  An ISP with no competition in a market is more likely to act in the way you fear.  Force that competition upon them, there by giving consumers a choice, and watch them turn into upstanding citizens, lest they lose customers to their competition.

 

 

 

 



Boghie #23 Posted Jan 08 2018 - 23:58

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No.  Why should rescinding a rule implemented in 2015 and surviving to 2017 actually do anything?  If it was that important than Congress would have voted it into law.  Instead someone picked up a phone and a pen and signed it into the bureaucracy.  What has it actually accomplished in its two years of incredibly important existence.

 

No.  You probably have at least some options on providers.  If you live in an apartment you might be stuck.  In my case, the apartment complex subsidizes the cable connection so other providers would be more expensive for me.  But, they are there.

 

No.  Back in the day.  Long before you chaps were tanking and before you were gaming as you do now, we used to use actual modems.  Dumb.  The technology was there for fast internet but we were dependent on the telephone companies for our WAN connections.  Well, the CEO of Intel made an off the cuff remark about INTEL looking at providing fast internet service if the phone and cable companies did not and viola - fast internet service provided by the phone and internet companies was available within two or three years.  Google is now a fiber platform provider.  AT&T is a fiber platform provider.  Verizon is a fiber platform provider.  Etc.  Smallish, and regionalish, but if the cable providers play the games you think they will nobody can tell me Google and Netflix and Verizon cannot step in relatively quickly.

 



Boghie #24 Posted Jan 09 2018 - 00:09

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No.  It is actually hard to buy anything less than 20Mbs.  Why would a company revert to less.

 

No.  Let us say Spectrum throttles gaming by 90%.  That leaves 2Mbs bandwidth if you buy the super throttled service (I think the minimal they sell now is 30Mbs, but go with me!!!).  That will support 5 - 10 running clients.

 

My money is that within five years you will not have 'cable' as you think it now.  Your TV / Entertainment center will connect via the cable modem.  You will not have 'internet' as you have it now.  It will just be it.  Everything will connect to the cable modem.



Striker_70 #25 Posted Jan 09 2018 - 01:26

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View PostWangOnTheLoose, on Jan 08 2018 - 01:26, said:

No it really isn't false.  The law that was removed was only instituted in Feb of 2015, which basically means in the US we are operating under the same rules and regulations from before Feb 2015.

 

Now I am not telling you that ISP will not act differently, they very well may, I am simply saying that it is my opinion it will not be an issue.

 

No we've had a form of net neutrality for well over a decade:

 

"The FCC has had some form of net-neutrality protections in place since 2005. After two different versions of the rules were struck down in court, the FCC in 2015 officially designated broadband providers as telecommunications companies, a move that allowed it to put in place new rules grounded in its authority over such companies under Title II of the Communications Act.

 

The latest proposal from the FCC reverses the designation of broadband providers as telecommunications companies and do away with the three major net-neutrality prohibitions. Under the new proposal, companies would be able to block, slow, or provide fast lanes to particular sites or services."

 

http://www.businessi...-repeal-2017-12

 

 

 

 

ISPs didn't spent millions lobbying for the complete end of Net Neutrality just so that nothing would change. 



Striker_70 #26 Posted Jan 09 2018 - 02:05

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View Postutgotye, on Jan 08 2018 - 13:51, said:

 

Well, part of that is/was true.  There have been instances of ISPs throttling or blocking certain things in the past.  How about now?  I can name lots of things that previously occurred that don't anymore.  And furthermore, it's less likely because the issue has been brought to the public's attention, making such practices less likely for fear of media/public backlash.

 

Google and other such major companies don't need ISP access to the Internet.  They access it through the backbone so that point is pretty much moot.  And they spent millions of dollars lobbying in order to fight the misinformation and blatant lies and scare tactics of the net neutrality side.  You know, the people that were saying that the internet would be broken, crippled, shut off or never be the same after the repeal?  Despite the fact that the internet would simply revert to 2014 era rules.  The same constant fear-mongering and crying wolf that has created climate change denial?

 

Changing Netflix for a service they need is called capitalism.  Don't like it?  Start your own ISP.

 

There's no net neutrality legislation out there thus far that attempts to do something about the actual issue here: ISP monopolies or monopolistic competition.  An ISP with no competition in a market is more likely to act in the way you fear.  Force that competition upon them, there by giving consumers a choice, and watch them turn into upstanding citizens, lest they lose customers to their competition.

 

 

In the first few paragraphs you're basically repeating the propaganda that is coming from the ISPs themselves.  Here is what counters their arguments:

 

1) The final vote didn't mean that Net Neutrality was instantly gone.  The full order needs to go through and until that happens there won't be any changes.  

 

2) When the full order is released, the changes will likely be slow so that there isn't an uproar all at once.  Remember, they didn't spend millions lobbying for the changes so that there would be no changes.

 

3) You need an ISP to get access to Google and other major websites.  You need an ISP to get access to everything on the internet.  If the company that owns your ISP competes with one of these websites, then don't be surprised if you can no longer access these websites (just like what happened before).  Don't be surprised when they start charging websites like Netflix and Youtube so you can access those sites.  When they do, the price of your Netflix goes up due to it (again) and youtube may no longer remain a free website.

 

4) No the internet will not revert back to pre-2014 rules.  Pre 2014 we already Net Neutrality rules in place, they just hadn't been solidified yet by the FCC.  The end of Net Neutrality means there will be zero protections in place, like how it was in the early 90's.  You know, like when AOL would block their internet users from going to any website or service that AOL didn't approve (which was a huge portion of the internet).

 

5) Ending Net Neutrality would be desirable if there was a plethora of competition in the ISP market.  There isn't, so it becomes dangerous.  IIRC 2/3rds of the US has reliable access to only 1 broadband ISP in their location.  That lack of competition makes it even more likely that websites, online games, and services will be throttled and blocked. 

 

6) These ISPs didn't spend millions of dollars lobbying for the power to throttle and block websites just so they wouldn't ever use it.  It's going to be used, guaranteed.  It's already been used.  And now that there are even fewer protections than there were pre 2014, its usage is likely to be more widespread.

 

 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if internet access eventually ends up turning into something like cable TV access.  With cable TV, you can't just access any channel you want like you can with the internet.  With cable TV, a TV channel has to make a deal with your cable company for you to see it.  Then you have to pay your cable company for access to that channel.  So if your ISP doesn't make a deal with your favorite website/game/service, and you don't pay for adequate access to that channel/website, then you simply don't get to go to that website. 

 

In the end, there is nothing about the end of Net Neutrality that helps regular people or websites.  There is zero upside for us here, and infinite upside for the ISPs.



Striker_70 #27 Posted Jan 09 2018 - 02:12

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View PostBoghie, on Jan 08 2018 - 16:58, said:

  Why should rescinding a rule implemented in 2015 and surviving to 2017 actually do anything? 

 

Because it gives the ISPs what they spent millions lobbying for.  The ability to have total control over what you access on the internet. 

 

Remember, we've had a form of Net Neutrality for well over a decade.  Every single bit of those protections will soon be 100% gone, exactly what the ISPs spent millions to achieve.



Trigger_Happy_Jax #28 Posted Jan 09 2018 - 06:56

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Just call up your ISP and tell them to ban Netflix and Hulu from your internet company.   Tell them to sell their bandwidth hogging garbage to the TV networks, where TV and movie programs (and their commercials) belong.   That will free up way more than enough bandwidth for gamers to enjoy low lag gaming for decades, and lower our prices!

Boxhawk #29 Posted Jan 10 2018 - 14:52

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View PostMr_FruitOfTheTank, on Jan 08 2018 - 00:31, said:

I'm hearing rumors, and I'm scared, guys. I have put effort into this game, many of you have put lots more, and to have it all taken away would just be.. extremely depressing. So, do you guys think this'll be an issue? Will the repeal of net neutrality be the end of WoT for many of us?

 

I played WOT before stupid net neutrality, the internet worked just fine for 20 years before the idiots in Congress decided they knew better.

miklkit #30 Posted Jan 10 2018 - 20:47

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Then you must have never had AOHELL then.  I started there and ran away when I started getting "ACCESS DENIED" messages. 

 

How long do you think it will be before "unlimited internet" will only be available on premium accounts and standard accounts will be capped like they already are in some places.  It will be interesting to take a look at the use graphs out there and see how much they drop in the last week of every month.



Prosqtor #31 Posted Jan 10 2018 - 20:51

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View PostMr_FruitOfTheTank, on Jan 08 2018 - 00:31, said:

I'm hearing rumors, and I'm scared, guys. I have put effort into this game, many of you have put lots more, and to have it all taken away would just be.. extremely depressing. So, do you guys think this'll be an issue? Will the repeal of net neutrality be the end of WoT for many of us?

 

​Sure.  Hide in your basement.

 



Darkbee2Bee #32 Posted Jan 10 2018 - 21:46

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OP, I don't think you have a whole lot to worry about yet.  Although corporations can be greedy, they're not stupid. They're not just gonna "shut down" the Internet overnight.  However, it's not hard to imagine (as someone pointed out above), Internet going the way of cell phone plans where ISPs start asking us to buy so much gigs of data a month, or subscribing to "premium plans" to make things like streaming Netflix/Hulu viable.  It's a money-making idea, plain and simple.

 

The whole argument that one company won't do it because people will flock to the competition is bogus.  If businesses recognize it as a cash cow they will all adopt the same model and customers will be forced to adopt that new model.  The gaming industry is a prime example where Free-To-Play and micro-transactions are considered "the norm" for business models in that industry these days but it wasn't always like that.     Then we have the argument that we can just boycott these companies these companies to force their hand.  Well... good luck trying to get by without any Internet. Sure it can be done, but our lives are so intertwined with it these days that it's pretty much considered a necessity rather than a luxury (at least in North America).  My bank for example, is not a bricks and mortar bank; without the Internet, I'm kinda dead in the water (my telephone btw is VOIP, so no telephone banking for me either).

 

Bottom line, both sides can drum up doomsday scenarios and create FUD.  I don't trust corporations or government to do the right thing.  The difference is, the government has to answer to me; corporations do not.






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