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Rebalancing Crew Skills to Be Less Pay-to-Win

pay-to-win crew skills gun marks suggestions

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SuperJaws100 #1 Posted Jan 10 2018 - 21:10

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Just as a disclaimer, I use the term pay-to-win very loosely here. Will a good crew guarantee you a higher win ratio? That's debatable. But you definitely have a clear and present advantage over someone who has a less skilled crew and it is definitely way easier to maintain your crew's skill if you pay for it than if you play for free. Additionally, seal clubbing is a real problem and is exacerbated by the relative inability of newer players to obtain crews that are as fully equipped and skilled as older players can get. The number one reason I've heard for people abandoning WoT early is sealclubbing. By leveling the playing field for new players they'll be able to learn the game more quickly instead of failing their way up the tiers after being seaclubbed by T-127s and M-2 Lights.

 

Here's a few ways I think crew skills could be reworked to be fairer to newer players as well as free players.

  • Give 6th Sense as Standard - WoT Blitz and Console already do this, there's no reason why PC can't do this as well.
  • Remove Brothers in Arms as a Perk and Re-implement it as a reward for Gun Marks OR Mastery Badges - Make BIA apply to a TANK, not a crew. Basically, you'd have multiple "stages" of BIA for every tank you have. If they applied this for gun marks, you'd get a 1.5%, 3%, and 5% bonus after each gun mark. If they applied this for Mastery Badges, you'd get a 1.5% bonus for 3rd Class, 2.5% for 2nd Class, 3.5% for 1st Class, and 5% for Mastery. This would make sense within the game - the more adept you become at using the tank, the more effectively your crew works for you. It'd also make it so that unskilled paying players could not outperform skilled free-to-play players just because of crew skills.
  • Remove 50% Crews and Make 75% Crews Free - Obviously the worst part about being a new player is being unable to afford even a 75% crew. Playing a tank with a 50% crew is debilitating, and new players are going to be reluctant to just drop $60 on an effective crew trainer on a game they just started playing (not only that but we don't want people with Tier IIs as their highest tier tank in their garage training their 50% crews in Tier 8 premiums). I personally wish the whole "percent effectiveness" thing started at 100% for free, but WG needs to make money I suppose so I'm willing to concede on that front.

 

So, is there anything that you think could improve crew skills and the way they work? Do you think these ideas would help or do you think they would be ineffective? Do you even think lack of a skilled crew has that large a bearing on gameplay?



__WarChild__ #2 Posted Jan 10 2018 - 21:25

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I like where your mind's at here with this. +1

 

:great:



Markd73 #3 Posted Jan 10 2018 - 21:26

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View PostSuperJaws100, on Jan 10 2018 - 20:10, said:

Just as a disclaimer, I use the term pay-to-win very loosely here. Will a good crew guarantee you a higher win ratio? That's debatable. But you definitely have a clear and present advantage over someone who has a less skilled crew and it is definitely way easier to maintain your crew's skill if you pay for it than if you play for free. Additionally, seal clubbing is a real problem and is exacerbated by the relative inability of newer players to obtain crews that are as fully equipped and skilled as older players can get. The number one reason I've heard for people abandoning WoT early is sealclubbing. By leveling the playing field for new players they'll be able to learn the game more quickly instead of failing their way up the tiers after being seaclubbed by T-127s and M-2 Lights.

 

Here's a few ways I think crew skills could be reworked to be fairer to newer players as well as free players.

  • Give 6th Sense as Standard - WoT Blitz and Console already do this, there's no reason why PC can't do this as well.
  • Remove Brothers in Arms as a Perk and Re-implement it as a reward for Gun Marks OR Mastery Badges - Make BIA apply to a TANK, not a crew. Basically, you'd have multiple "stages" of BIA for every tank you have. If they applied this for gun marks, you'd get a 1.5%, 3%, and 5% bonus after each gun mark. If they applied this for Mastery Badges, you'd get a 1.5% bonus for 3rd Class, 2.5% for 2nd Class, 3.5% for 1st Class, and 5% for Mastery. This would make sense within the game - the more adept you become at using the tank, the more effectively your crew works for you. It'd also make it so that unskilled paying players could not outperform skilled free-to-play players just because of crew skills.
  • Remove 50% Crews and Make 75% Crews Free - Obviously the worst part about being a new player is being unable to afford even a 75% crew. Playing a tank with a 50% crew is debilitating, and new players are going to be reluctant to just drop $60 on an effective crew trainer on a game they just started playing (not only that but we don't want people with Tier IIs as their highest tier tank in their garage training their 50% crews in Tier 8 premiums). I personally wish the whole "percent effectiveness" thing started at 100% for free, but WG needs to make money I suppose so I'm willing to concede on that front.

 

So, is there anything that you think could improve crew skills and the way they work? Do you think these ideas would help or do you think they would be ineffective? Do you even think lack of a skilled crew has that large a bearing on gameplay?

 

To what degree is seal clubbing a problem?

 

Just because you assert that the "number one reason I've heard for people abandoning WoT early is sealclubbing" doesn't mean it is the actual number 1 reason.

 

That being said I agree with the 75% crew and 6th sense as standard ideas.


Edited by Markd73, Jan 10 2018 - 21:27.


CapPhrases #4 Posted Jan 10 2018 - 21:33

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wait both Blitz and console get sixth as standard? why are we so far behind?

honestly I'm not big on only giving BIA for marks or emblems, it's just too weird and wrong

if players are knowledgeable and plan ahead to at least tier 6 they can take starting crews up the tiers and retrain them to 90% on a new tank and then reset skills to make them 100% again without using gold. this is what I do for crew retraining once I figured out to not buy a new crew for every tank (gosh I'm an idiot).


Edited by CapPhrases, Jan 10 2018 - 21:33.


rcaf36 #5 Posted Jan 10 2018 - 21:33

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No, No and No.

 



n4cer67 #6 Posted Jan 10 2018 - 21:33

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I think  they need to work at training their crews just like everyone else has had to do. All of us have had to deal with players that had more battle experience and we toughed it out.

I don't see the big deal with seal clubbing, the players just need to deal with it. That's like having a sports team and you bench your veteran players because the other team has rookies.

The 6th sense as standard I think would be good, that way the newbies can't complain about a disadvantage.

I think BIA should stay as it is and additional BIA could apply to entire tank once all research is done for that tank. Additional BIA for badges would be good but I don't think it needs to be applied to the MOE's because then it would be Dependant on other players instead of the individual which would make MOE's near impossible to get.
 

Edited by n4cer67, Jan 10 2018 - 21:37.


CapPhrases #7 Posted Jan 10 2018 - 21:35

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View Postn4cer67, on Jan 10 2018 - 15:33, said:

I think BIA should stay as it is and additional BIA could apply to entire tank once all research is done for that tank.

 

that might reward even more low tier clubbing with cheap research costs on tanks. Not to mention most tier X's come elited.

madgiecool #8 Posted Jan 10 2018 - 21:37

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At tier 1, crew are now 100% as a standard, and have been for awhile now.

 

The advantages of BIA are small and if it were to be changed to gun marks this ability would change every time 'the next' tank was purchased and the crew retrained (or a MoE acquired).

 

All crew skills can be achieved by playing the game.  effectively making it a play to win system.  While keeping a crew at 100% when changing tanks by using gold is an option, there are other options available and there are several guides on this.

Back when FTR was still be written by SS, I'm sure there was an article there that 6th was going to the radio OP by default when the crew got to 100%

http://ftr.wot-news....h-sense-rework/ - Found it  :great:

 

 

Can you please explain this sealclubbing?  As I understand it, a team wins and another team loses.  How is that different than any other tier?  All tiers are having run away wins or do you believe new players should be mollycoddled until a later tier? 

 

In response to your other concerns IRT newer players.

Try the Refer a friend program.  Prem tank are rewarded for this, solving another of your concerns.

Try starter codes/bonus codes.  Most give 500g or so, providing 1 free skill retraining when there is a discount on.



ClydeCooper421 #9 Posted Jan 10 2018 - 22:00

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meh 6th sense is fine how it is. It really doesn't take that long to train 1 skill on a crew. Pop some personal reserves and you can have it done in a day. 

mattwong #10 Posted Jan 10 2018 - 22:02

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View Postmadgiecool, on Jan 10 2018 - 15:37, said:

At tier 1, crew are now 100% as a standard, and have been for awhile now.

 

That doesn't help the non-premium player who just unlocked a tier 8 tank.

 



mattwong #11 Posted Jan 10 2018 - 22:03

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View PostClydeCooper421, on Jan 10 2018 - 16:00, said:

meh 6th sense is fine how it is. It really doesn't take that long to train 1 skill on a crew. Pop some personal reserves and you can have it done in a day. 

 

How many games do you play in a day, that you could grind a tank from a 75% crew to having Sixth Sense in a day?

madgiecool #12 Posted Jan 10 2018 - 23:52

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View Postmattwong, on Jan 11 2018 - 09:02, said:

 

That doesn't help the non-premium player who just unlocked a tier 8 tank.

 

 

He's posting about new players.

 

At tier 8 players can get good XP just by winning and retraining crew by usual way.

 

PS - the game isn't designed to help non-prem players at higher tiers.


Edited by madgiecool, Jan 11 2018 - 00:07.


Dogg_zilla #13 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 01:14

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What the hell are you smoking???

All the premium tanks above tier 8 are free rewards.

Where are you getting the idea that the only two tiers without premium paid tanks are the tiers designed for Premium tanks???

In tier 9 and 10 the prem tanks are all tier 8 and get beech slapped like toys.



SuperJaws100 #14 Posted Jan 12 2018 - 04:44

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View Postmadgiecool, on Jan 10 2018 - 15:37, said:

Can you please explain this sealclubbing?  As I understand it, a team wins and another team loses.  How is that different than any other tier?  All tiers are having run away wins or do you believe new players should be mollycoddled until a later tier?

 

So I'm going to use you to address the numerous comments that claim sealclubbing isn't an issue. You're just flat out wrong. They're not being "mollycoddled", they'd be being weaned into a difficult to play game. It takes a while to get used to learning World of Tanks, specifically because you kind of just have to "know" what to do on each flank and where to shoot each tank. By allowing your newer players to have such an extreme disadvantage (especially with 50% crews) you're basically capping short the lifetime of your game. It's no secret that especially on NA we have a shortage of new players. And more and more people leave the game every day. If WoT wants to maintain longevity in NA it has to do a better job of giving newer players a more level playing field. You thought the Server Merger was bad? Try when they say that it's no longer profitable to keep NA open and they decide to merge NA with EU instead.



Manimal__ #15 Posted Jan 12 2018 - 05:35

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View PostSuperJaws100, on Jan 10 2018 - 12:10, said:

Just as a disclaimer, I use the term pay-to-win very loosely here. Will a good crew guarantee you a higher win ratio? That's debatable. But you definitely have a clear and present advantage over someone who has a less skilled crew and it is definitely way easier to maintain your crew's skill if you pay for it than if you play for free. Additionally, seal clubbing is a real problem and is exacerbated by the relative inability of newer players to obtain crews that are as fully equipped and skilled as older players can get. The number one reason I've heard for people abandoning WoT early is sealclubbing. By leveling the playing field for new players they'll be able to learn the game more quickly instead of failing their way up the tiers after being seaclubbed by T-127s and M-2 Lights.

 

Here's a few ways I think crew skills could be reworked to be fairer to newer players as well as free players.

  • Give 6th Sense as Standard - WoT Blitz and Console already do this, there's no reason why PC can't do this as well.
  • Remove Brothers in Arms as a Perk and Re-implement it as a reward for Gun Marks OR Mastery Badges - Make BIA apply to a TANK, not a crew. Basically, you'd have multiple "stages" of BIA for every tank you have. If they applied this for gun marks, you'd get a 1.5%, 3%, and 5% bonus after each gun mark. If they applied this for Mastery Badges, you'd get a 1.5% bonus for 3rd Class, 2.5% for 2nd Class, 3.5% for 1st Class, and 5% for Mastery. This would make sense within the game - the more adept you become at using the tank, the more effectively your crew works for you. It'd also make it so that unskilled paying players could not outperform skilled free-to-play players just because of crew skills.
  • Remove 50% Crews and Make 75% Crews Free - Obviously the worst part about being a new player is being unable to afford even a 75% crew. Playing a tank with a 50% crew is debilitating, and new players are going to be reluctant to just drop $60 on an effective crew trainer on a game they just started playing (not only that but we don't want people with Tier IIs as their highest tier tank in their garage training their 50% crews in Tier 8 premiums). I personally wish the whole "percent effectiveness" thing started at 100% for free, but WG needs to make money I suppose so I'm willing to concede on that front.

 

So, is there anything that you think could improve crew skills and the way they work? Do you think these ideas would help or do you think they would be ineffective? Do you even think lack of a skilled crew has that large a bearing on gameplay?

 

So what you're saying is

 



Hellsfog #16 Posted Jan 12 2018 - 05:59

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I don't know about the OP wanting an easy button but of all the idiotic ideas that get posted on the forums, giving new players one commander with 6th sense similar to the Loza crew is a pretty good idea. Giving new players one per country might be too much but I'm not against it.  I would also like to see free crew retraining for tier 4 or less since you are only in those tanks for handful of games and currently the 100% is gone before new players get to experience any crew skills.  It would even up the seal clubbing a little bit as well.  Maybe limit it players with less than 1200 battles or similar. 

Duster47 #17 Posted Jan 12 2018 - 19:13

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To me the issue with crew skills is the absurd amount of time (XP) required to get them.  Starts off not so bad but by time you get to 90% on first Skill, that next 1% costs 7500 xp.  For second skill at 90% it costs ~15,000 xp to earn that next 1%.  If average XP/match is 300, that is 50 matches to get 1% increase.  Could spend RL$$ on Premium Acct of course to speed this up by 1.5.  Those free crew reward things help too (e.g. +100% crew XP for 2 hours).  So 50 could become 17-ish at best (in my limited experience).  Given 10 matches an hour, it matches probably takes 5 hours (2 or 3 sessions) for me to earn 1% increase.  Talk about a grind... :ohmy:

 

Could also spend Free XP on increasing crew skills too, but again, it is 1-for-1 pts.  Hardly a good ROI considering FreeXP is only earned at 5% of XP.



the_Deadly_Bulb #18 Posted Jan 12 2018 - 19:29

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No

No

Maybe


 

Thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands have played and enjoyed the game as it is.

There is no pressing reason to make it different to appease the self interested.


 

Poker would be way easier too if I got to pick my cards.



I_AM_Diablo #19 Posted Jan 12 2018 - 21:25

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I only agree with Six Sense as Standard or just for light tanks.

VooDooKobra #20 Posted Jan 13 2018 - 04:08

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View PostSuperJaws100, on Jan 10 2018 - 13:10, said:

Just as a disclaimer, I use the term pay-to-win very loosely here. Will a good crew guarantee you a higher win ratio? That's debatable. But you definitely have a clear and present advantage over someone who has a less skilled crew and it is definitely way easier to maintain your crew's skill if you pay for it than if you play for free. Additionally, seal clubbing is a real problem and is exacerbated by the relative inability of newer players to obtain crews that are as fully equipped and skilled as older players can get. The number one reason I've heard for people abandoning WoT early is sealclubbing. By leveling the playing field for new players they'll be able to learn the game more quickly instead of failing their way up the tiers after being seaclubbed by T-127s and M-2 Lights.

 

Here's a few ways I think crew skills could be reworked to be fairer to newer players as well as free players.

  • Give 6th Sense as Standard - WoT Blitz and Console already do this, there's no reason why PC can't do this as well.   

 

           This wouldnt bother me, everyone who plays would have to get a free reset though for this to work

 

 

  • Remove Brothers in Arms as a Perk and Re-implement it as a reward for Gun Marks OR Mastery Badges - Make BIA apply to a TANK, not a crew. Basically, you'd have multiple "stages" of BIA for every tank you have. If they applied this for gun marks, you'd get a 1.5%, 3%, and 5% bonus after each gun mark. If they applied this for Mastery Badges, you'd get a 1.5% bonus for 3rd Class, 2.5% for 2nd Class, 3.5% for 1st Class, and 5% for Mastery. This would make sense within the game - the more adept you become at using the tank, the more effectively your crew works for you. It'd also make it so that unskilled paying players could not outperform skilled free-to-play players just because of crew skills.

 

 no, leave BIA the way it is.  anyone good or bad can use the skill and has no bearing on if you pay or not.  all this idea would do is give good players more of an advantage over bad players.  making it apply only to a tank also makes no sense because if you move your crew up the line that means you lose that bonus for that crew.  brothers at arms needs to stay independent of the tanks because making it about the tanks and not the crew kinda defeats the purpose of even calling it brothers in arms.  by your idea unskilled nonpaying players would be SOL

 

 

  • Remove 50% Crews and Make 75% Crews Free - Obviously the worst part about being a new player is being unable to afford even a 75% crew. Playing a tank with a 50% crew is debilitating, and new players are going to be reluctant to just drop $60 on an effective crew trainer on a game they just started playing (not only that but we don't want people with Tier IIs as their highest tier tank in their garage training their 50% crews in Tier 8 premiums). I personally wish the whole "percent effectiveness" thing started at 100% for free, but WG needs to make money I suppose so I'm willing to concede on that front.  

 

apparently they are looking at getting rid of the 50% crews

 

So, is there anything that you think could improve crew skills and the way they work? Do you think these ideas would help or do you think they would be ineffective? Do you even think lack of a skilled crew has that large a bearing on gameplay?

 


Edited by VooDooKobra, Jan 13 2018 - 04:11.





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