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Light tanks are broken


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RedBaronK #41 Posted Jan 13 2018 - 00:59

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Asking WG for buffs tp view range will probably not get anywhere, but I think it's reasonable to take small concessions and accept a compromise of a physics rework for just the lights so it doesn't flip over at every bump.

samael75 #42 Posted Jan 13 2018 - 01:18

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Funny thing is ,before ive clicked this topic ive been thinking "is it gonna be about how OP they are or how they underperform?" Cos ive seen both complaints a lot :^)

leeuniverse #43 Posted Jan 13 2018 - 18:53

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My only "primary" problem with lights (though some have individual things that should be improved) is their SPEEDS....

They are slow as donkey crap on the LOW END in power/acceleration.  Constantly causes you to get hit by arty, and if you take risks to get close to tanks to circle kill them, your speed generally fails you, cause they are faster or as fast.  That's not how Lights are supposed to work.



QuicksilverJPR #44 Posted Jan 13 2018 - 21:12

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View PostRush_91, on Jan 11 2018 - 09:09, said:

I wouldn't be against giving tier X LTS 450-500 view range so they can actually out spot mediums.

 

I out spot mediums at tier 10 every single time I take one of my light tanks out.  That little turd of a comment only gets traction when the unwashed masses keep repeating it...incorrectly.

 

And why does no one post videos of the event if there is "proof"?  I have plenty of vids of the opposite being true, however...



Wtornado #45 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 02:22

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I had a lot of ligh tanks and I sold half of them with the 9.18 game mechanics changes and pretty well stopped playing them all together and I just play meds or heavies

and when I need a rest and relax, Arty.

 

Meds do better because they can take a hit.

 

Guys get really mad when you one shot them in their lights now.



Harbinger1 #46 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 05:13

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View PostQuicksilverJPR, on Jan 13 2018 - 21:12, said:

 

I out spot mediums at tier 10 every single time I take one of my light tanks out.  That little turd of a comment only gets traction when the unwashed masses keep repeating it...incorrectly.

 

And why does no one post videos of the event if there is "proof"?  I have plenty of vids of the opposite being true, however...

 

 

why would someone have to post a video to show the obvious....380-390 view range at tier x whereas some tier x mediums have 420 base view range like the patton or at the very least 400 view range for most tier x. so yes with a high skill crew and equipment you can approach the view range of some meds, but if they did the same thing you can't catch up because their BASE view range is higher than yours. 

 

also, bc you personally can outspot light tanks (so you say) may mean they have crap crews or are just tomatoes who don't even use equipment..that doesn't mean that you can outspot every medium, as if someone has a clue on how to play this game in a medium, they will outspot light tanks (except maybe the rhm bc it has 420 base view range). 

 

whether you have a vid or not doesn't prove light tanks aren't gimped via viewrange...the actual base viewranges for each tank in the game show that. any "evidence" you have will be anecdotal bc it's your experience. it's a turd comment to say that your experience invalidates the stats of the entire game, especially when you are 1 player...but like the typical anonymous poster...only your opinion matters so everyone else must be wrong. sigh. you are either an overripe tomato or a troll, and either way i won't be feeding you anymore after this. 



Harbinger1 #47 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 05:19

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View Postleeuniverse, on Jan 13 2018 - 18:53, said:

My only "primary" problem with lights (though some have individual things that should be improved) is their SPEEDS....

They are slow as donkey crap on the LOW END in power/acceleration.  Constantly causes you to get hit by arty, and if you take risks to get close to tanks to circle kill them, your speed generally fails you, cause they are faster or as fast.  That's not how Lights are supposed to work.

 

my main problem lately has been the stupid physics....flipping over is ridiculously easy when you are trying to zig zag to avoid enemy fire when spotted OR bc you touched a rock or a slight incline...bam..flip over and either die or if you survive long enough for a green teammate to tip you over. it just makes lights stupid. they need to at least fix the physics....and create maps that actually provide a usage for light tanks. i have noticed that there are not many of them being played nowadays...(that part is just my opinion as i don't know others experiences) but from the forums it seems clear that many are avoiding light tanks like the plague now. usually its heavies and TD's that i see getting played the most with mediums coming in after. it seems the maps are more heavy tank/breakthrough TD focused now.

 

realistically light tanks went up a tier (like the ru 51) and got NERFED after going up a tier. then with new matchmaking..you are more likely to be bottom tier as well or are in all tier x games (where literally everyone else has better view range than you). 

 

i grinded for my rhm and i regret it. i actually find tier 7 lights to be more fun to play than tier x (as do others). WG broke light tanks, and i hope they ungimp them in the future as although they are'nt unplayable at the moment..there is just no reason to play them because meds do their job better, can take a hit AND don't flip over so damn easy. 

 

 



Griffon327327 #48 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 10:11

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View PostHarbinger1, on Jan 11 2018 - 00:47, said:

I can tolerate the lower alpha, higher reload and lower ammo count than meds in my light tank..i really can. spotting should be your main role, and you are supposed to be fast so you can get away. Here's the problem though...you have lower base view range than some tier 8 tanks... (at tier x). The other problem is that ya, they are fast..but they roll over WAY WAY to easily. I was just running away from 2 tanks in my RHM...lightly touched the edge of a very slight hill and the tank started to roll (so i tried to slow down and go in the opposite direction a little bit)...what happened...i flipped over the other way..completely and died. this type of crap happens so much in light tanks that i just can't enjoy them...unless it's the tier 7/8 french lights which don't seem to flip as much. 

 

Honestly, it really feels like tier x lights are just unplayable...the crappy pen, crap ammo loadout, crap gun handling, high reload and low alpha are all bad enough..but when added with crap view range and stupid tipping mechanics just ruin them. I seriously wished i hadn't bothered going through the line. The tier 9 light tank is arguably better than the tier x. 

 

The only things the RHM has going for it are speed and view range. Speed advantage is somewhat negated however when you can barely juke (trying to avoid enemy fire) or touch any type of depression/elevation which flips your tank over and loses you the game. 

 

 

 

you were in a German light tank of course you roll easily

tier 10 light tanks favor Russian light tank that just looking at it rolls less often

try driving the American tier 10 light it rolls on flat ground

wargaming wants you to use cola and BIA and recon and situational awareness and bonds to buy stuff to increase view range and they want you to buy that stuff EVERY battle

 



Flarvin #49 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 20:02

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View PostGriffon327327, on Jan 14 2018 - 04:11, said:

 

you were in a German light tank of course you roll easily

tier 10 light tanks favor Russian light tank that just looking at it rolls less often

try driving the American tier 10 light it rolls on flat ground

wargaming wants you to use cola and BIA and recon and situational awareness and bonds to buy stuff to increase view range and they want you to buy that stuff EVERY battle

 

 

What? 

 

A business trying to encourage customers to spent money with them? 

 

No way. Say it ain’t so. 



miklkit #50 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 23:22

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You don't like flipping over in your light tank?  Drive an AMX40.  Problem solved.

Mikosah #51 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 23:45

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Basically, WG was paranoid that light tanks would break the meta when they received normal MM and over-nerfed them. Some nerfs were justified and some of the reworks actually did turn out for the best (AMX 13-75 and 13-90 are now way more playable than they were before, for instance). But these are the exceptions, not the rule. Most light tanks are not only under-gunned, but their vision game just isn't adequate either. Sure they have mobility, but as the OP points out, that mobility turns into a liability whenever you hit even the slightest bump in the terrain and end up on your back. Then again, I was never a fan of the flipping mechanic in any case. Just another bug that WG calls a feature. But all things considered, WG could so easily fix the light tank situation with some view range buffs.

Apache1990 #52 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 23:52

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View PostWoebegoneslug, on Jan 11 2018 - 19:36, said:

When I shoot a light tank with a tier 10, 155mm gun,  in a heavily armored TD it shoud..... DIE.  Simple as that.

 

Realistically, if you shoot anything and penetrate with a 155mm gun it should die instantly most of the time.  But...this just in, WoT isn't War Thunder, and tanks don't die until their hit points are depleted.



leeuniverse #53 Posted Jan 15 2018 - 03:58

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View PostHarbinger1, on Jan 13 2018 - 21:19, said:

 

my main problem lately has been the stupid physics....flipping over is ridiculously easy when you are trying to zig zag to avoid enemy fire when spotted OR bc you touched a rock or a slight incline...bam..flip over and either die or if you survive long enough for a green teammate to tip you over. it just makes lights stupid. they need to at least fix the physics....and create maps that actually provide a usage for light tanks. i have noticed that there are not many of them being played nowadays...(that part is just my opinion as i don't know others experiences) but from the forums it seems clear that many are avoiding light tanks like the plague now. usually its heavies and TD's that i see getting played the most with mediums coming in after. it seems the maps are more heavy tank/breakthrough TD focused now.

 

realistically light tanks went up a tier (like the ru 51) and got NERFED after going up a tier. then with new matchmaking..you are more likely to be bottom tier as well or are in all tier x games (where literally everyone else has better view range than you). 

 

i grinded for my rhm and i regret it. i actually find tier 7 lights to be more fun to play than tier x (as do others). WG broke light tanks, and i hope they ungimp them in the future as although they are'nt unplayable at the moment..there is just no reason to play them because meds do their job better, can take a hit AND don't flip over so damn easy. 

 

Totally agree with you.....   (though I still like higher tier lights, they do well for me, not "gimped" yet, save the Sheridan, not happy with it's derp and easy to flip)

I can't play "much" of anything else in the game because of how crap SLOW all tanks are now, it causes me to not perform as well when you reflexes want to do one thing but your tank won't move....



leeuniverse #54 Posted Jan 15 2018 - 04:01

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View PostMikosah, on Jan 14 2018 - 15:45, said:

Basically, WG was paranoid that light tanks would break the meta when they received normal MM and over-nerfed them. Some nerfs were justified and some of the reworks actually did turn out for the best (AMX 13-75 and 13-90 are now way more playable than they were before, for instance). But these are the exceptions, not the rule. Most light tanks are not only under-gunned, but their vision game just isn't adequate either. Sure they have mobility, but as the OP points out, that mobility turns into a liability whenever you hit even the slightest bump in the terrain and end up on your back. Then again, I was never a fan of the flipping mechanic in any case. Just another bug that WG calls a feature. But all things considered, WG could so easily fix the light tank situation with some view range buffs.

 

Thing is though Wargaming has "backward" thinking....

If you think light tanks would "break the meta" then you buff other tanks that are SHIP and increase HP levels of all tanks so other tanks can consistently do well.

 

Wargaming's thinking is to make MOST tanks of the game SHIP, and that's balance.... instead of what they should do, make most tanks GOOD and then there wouldn't be as much complaints.

 

I know for sure this works because irrespective of the flaws of Armored Warfare that they didn't fix (though there were many good things about it), 95% of the tanks in that game were a JOY TO PLAY....!!!  In contrast, 98% of WOT's tanks I want to shoot myself in the head.... utterly HATING the game!



Mikosah #55 Posted Jan 15 2018 - 06:38

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View Postleeuniverse, on Jan 14 2018 - 21:01, said:

 

Thing is though Wargaming has "backward" thinking....

If you think light tanks would "break the meta" then you buff other tanks that are SHIP and increase HP levels of all tanks so other tanks can consistently do well.

 

Wargaming's thinking is to make MOST tanks of the game SHIP, and that's balance.... instead of what they should do, make most tanks GOOD and then there wouldn't be as much complaints.

 

I know for sure this works because irrespective of the flaws of Armored Warfare that they didn't fix (though there were many good things about it), 95% of the tanks in that game were a JOY TO PLAY....!!!  In contrast, 98% of WOT's tanks I want to shoot myself in the head.... utterly HATING the game!

 

It isn't that most tanks are bad, rather that the mechanics are a royal pain in many circumstances. Fully aim at stationary target in the open, miss completely, and that's a pain. Take key forward positions for the benefit of the team, get focused by arta, and that's a pain. Want to buy a new tank and have to start a fresh crew, still need to grind out a whole skill before sixth-sense works, and that's a pain. Try to use mobility, hit tiny bump in the terrain and get flipped onto your back, and that's a pain. Play niche tank class that isn't meant to do all the things at all times, get put into a map that doesn't suit your niche, and that's a pain. Start a match, bad situation snowballs into a worse situation, suddenly you're outnumbered beyond any hope of relevance (and by losing your earnings turn to complete crap), and that's a pain. Not the tank's fault, just the game mechanics.

slayer6 #56 Posted Jan 16 2018 - 00:25

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Honestly, when I started using the 59-16 I thought it was unplayable with the 57mm or the 5 shot 76mm autoloader...  I eventually found a niche role with the single shot 76mm and over ~500 battles learnt how to play it properly and eventually got my 3 marks of excellence in it...  Yes the penetration was hopeless with 86mm for silver and 106mm for gold, but then I would engage enemy heavies up close, circling them and using my superior camo and agility to stand against them up close...


 

I'd have to say it's the same for these light tanks (currently on the Rhm Pzw, will soon have the AMX13 105, and the T-100 LT) sure it's a different experience, and probably going to be both expensive and hard, but in the end, it will pay off...


 

Lastly, lag isn't too much of a problem in this game, even with 220ms ping (Brisbane, Australia), the main thing is about adjusting to it, in all ways - shooting, driving etc...  I think these lights are just fine as they are...



g4143 #57 Posted Jan 16 2018 - 02:45

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View PostHarbinger1, on Jan 11 2018 - 01:47, said:

I can tolerate the lower alpha, higher reload and lower ammo count than meds in my light tank..i really can. spotting should be your main role, and you are supposed to be fast so you can get away. Here's the problem though...you have lower base view range than some tier 8 tanks... (at tier x). The other problem is that ya, they are fast..but they roll over WAY WAY to easily. I was just running away from 2 tanks in my RHM...lightly touched the edge of a very slight hill and the tank started to roll (so i tried to slow down and go in the opposite direction a little bit)...what happened...i flipped over the other way..completely and died. this type of crap happens so much in light tanks that i just can't enjoy them...unless it's the tier 7/8 french lights which don't seem to flip as much. 

 

Honestly, it really feels like tier x lights are just unplayable...the crappy pen, crap ammo loadout, crap gun handling, high reload and low alpha are all bad enough..but when added with crap view range and stupid tipping mechanics just ruin them. I seriously wished i hadn't bothered going through the line. The tier 9 light tank is arguably better than the tier x. 

 

The only things the RHM has going for it are speed and view range. Speed advantage is somewhat negated however when you can barely juke (trying to avoid enemy fire) or touch any type of depression/elevation which flips your tank over and loses you the game. 

 

 

 

That's odd because I see light tanks knocking out super heavies and assault guns all the time.That's odd because I see light tanks 'travelling at 60+ kph' snap shooting a target many squares away. The point is lights and mediums are overpower.

 

The flipping problem... If any tank travelled 70+ kph and turned on a dime they would experience the same flipping over problem. Should we nerf the speed and mobility of light and medium tanks? Maybe we should give them Tog mobility and speed for a week and see how you like that.

 

 


Edited by g4143, Jan 16 2018 - 02:53.


Harbinger1 #58 Posted Jan 16 2018 - 04:40

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View Postg4143, on Jan 16 2018 - 02:45, said:

 

That's odd because I see light tanks knocking out super heavies and assault guns all the time.That's odd because I see light tanks 'travelling at 60+ kph' snap shooting a target many squares away. The point is lights and mediums are overpower.

 

The flipping problem... If any tank travelled 70+ kph and turned on a dime they would experience the same flipping over problem. Should we nerf the speed and mobility of light and medium tanks? Maybe we should give them Tog mobility and speed for a week and see how you like that.

 

 

 

light tanks are not snap shotting people on a regular basis. this game is based on RNG (more so lately) so ya sometimes it happens..i have been snapshotted by type 5 heavies (going 72 KM) an hour in my RHM and the type 5 was using the derp gun...so that gun has .5 accuracy, and he hit me on the move...does that mean the type 5 is too accurate and the gun needs a nerf? no it means RNG kicked my A#$. 

 

what you are referring too has nothing to do with light tanks, it has to do with unicum teams playing against tomatoes..so at the end of the match if the team melted, then ya you may see a light doing that (because the enemy heavy is either isolated bc his team sucked, or the  heavy player is a tomato who wasn't paying attention to his minimap. most heavy tanks (esp super heavies are super slow and their turning/turret traverse is super slow so they can usually be circled by mediums (and even some faster heavies) as well. Most assault guns (i am assuming you are talking about TD here) are either heavily armored and slow (jagpanzer e100 etc). and they can also be outflanked and killed by everything. 

 

super heavies and assault tanks are designed to push a front..from the front and wreck the enemy heavies, make a breakthrough and allow the other tanks to push through and flank them. so their armor is in the front, they are slow and ponderous to balance their really good gun and armor. They have to have some weaknesses to make them playable but not overpowered. 

 

a light tank has decent camo (which TD's generally outshine a lot) and some mediums even have very good camo too (like the batchat). its benefits are speed, maneuverability and camo while moving. however, their speed was nerfed, they can't use their maneuverability too much because of the flipping mechanics, and since their pen sucks, many of them struggle even pen weakspots on super heavies/td (which also negates your snap shot argument as in most cases they won't pen even if they hit). 

 

your perspective on the flipping problem is a bit off...this game is not a simulator, it's arcade. they added that crap flipping into the game and it and the nerfed view range have essentially ruined light tanks. but they didn't stop their, they also ruined the DPM/gunhandling and the ammo counts of these lights are super low as well. 

 

lights are not overpowered, i strongly suspect you are a tomato or worse because you don't seem to know what you are talking about. go look at the stats for the tanks i am talking about...you need to be a VERY good player to do well consistently in light tanks because they have a high skill cap due to the fact they were nerfed into the ground. sometimes people like you see weaker/smaller/inferior tanks kicking the butt of a superior tank because the PLAYER is very good and their opponent is an over ripe tomato who has no idea how to play their tank. they got outplayed, and it has nothing to do with OP tanks. 

 

also teamwork matters in this game (u don't see it enough) but if your team has a clue and you play well and spot for your team in a light/medium..then your team will do well (*especially if the enemy team yolos). MM needs some tweaking to help put people with a higher skill level matched up with others like them..this is one of the reasons we have so many 15 to 2 kill games. 

 

like i said to another poster...light tanks should just be removed, and people like me who wasted time and credits should have our money/credits refunded because there isn't really a place for them in the game with how the maps/meta currently are. mediums in most cases do the job better bc of armor, rate of fire, superior view range and better gun stats. 

 

people like you who believe that light tanks are OP need to actually get better at the game, play some light tanks and see for themselves how playing a light can actually hinder your team as you also have much lower HP than a med and your DPM just makes it harder to have your presence felt (this could be different if we actually had maps that rewarded spotting..but there are like 2 of them) the rest are corridor maps which rewards TD/heavy tank game play. This game is catering to the Heavy tank and TD player meta more than anything else. Probably because wargaming wants to make people have to use premium ammo to punch through all that heavy armor. 

 

 



Harbinger1 #59 Posted Jan 16 2018 - 04:48

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View Postg4143, on Jan 16 2018 - 02:45, said:

 

That's odd because I see light tanks knocking out super heavies and assault guns all the time.That's odd because I see light tanks 'travelling at 60+ kph' snap shooting a target many squares away. The point is lights and mediums are overpower.

 

The flipping problem... If any tank travelled 70+ kph and turned on a dime they would experience the same flipping over problem. Should we nerf the speed and mobility of light and medium tanks? Maybe we should give them Tog mobility and speed for a week and see how you like that.

 

 

 

ya i just checked.. you have almost 9k battles but a 45 percent winrate and your personal rating is only 3 thousand. you are not playing well when you are playing and you are one of the people who is hurting your team when you are on it . I am not a great player, i am only a good player, because i watch youtube videos, streamers and try to learn from what i did wrong in my games. i still make a lot of mistakes because this game is hard, but when i die its either because my team melted bc they were tomatoes, i or my other teammates made a mistake, or our teams were evenly matched (rarely happens) and we just got outplayed. 

 

whining about OP tanks are is a  crutch,  that people who don't want to get better at this game use to explain losses. if you lose, you have to own your mistakes and try to improve. blaming your losses on OP med/light tanks means you won't get better and you will essentially keep dragging your team down. sometimes even as a unicum, your team sucks so bad there is literally no way for you to win (so not every loss is avoidable). Even a unicum only has a 60 percent win rate (which is just a bit more than half out of a hundred games). so ya this game is hard, the skill cap in general is high ( if you want to do well). i would suggest you do more time in the forums/youtube learning to play the game and trying to get better. then you will see that OP tanks are just ok tanks played by people who are VERY good at the game bc they know the game mechanics and play each match according to constant map awareness and playing to the strengths of their particular tank. 

 

 



scottie_ #60 Posted Jan 16 2018 - 12:05

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in my experience, a light tank will always spot a medium first if they can use concealment or open terrain to their advantage.  Maps without a lot of concealment or open terrain, which there are quite a few of thoe maps, yeah, light tanks are kind of obsolete in those situations are you are better off in a medium. 




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