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Why YOU lose, why I'm tired of carrying, and other ramblings from a pretty good night...


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SoTrue #1 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 09:03

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I think WG does a pretty lackluster job at player education.  This year I'm going to try and focus my posts into (hopefully) useful/educational posts in an effort to improve the skill of the player base.  I ask your responses to this post follow that sentiment, and help me help the player base.  With that in mind...

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So the other night I had a pretty good night, I went 15 wins and 2 losses.  This included a 10 win streak in the middle.  At the end of the night I was reflecting on how this happened.  Some of reasons are good, some of the reasons are bad.  Hopefully my discussion of them will serve to give newer or less skilled players just a bit of insight as to how to play a tad bit better.

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There are just a few key strategies to being good in this game.  I list the general strategies below, and follow up with specifics from this night.

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1)  General: Know which tanks are good, and how to drive them.  All tanks are not created equal.  Some tanks are built to carry in the current Meta, others do terrible in the current Meta.  The current Meta favors: Speed, View Range, Camo, Damage Per Minute (in that order).   Speed allows you to be where you need to be, or leave where you shouldn't be.  View range lets you see the enemy before they can see you.  Camo lets you see the enemy when they can't see you.  DPM lets you kill tanks quickly.  DPM is better than Alpha.  Why?  If you have a high alpha gun, you get maybe 3-4 shots per minute.  So if you miss or bounce (which happens a lot), your DMP drops dramatically.  But in a low alpha gun, you get maybe 10-15 shots a minute.  So if you miss or bounce a couple, you still do most of your damage.  Plus, being able to take lots of shots allows means you'll be that much more likely to have a round in the chamber when an opportunity to shoot presents itself (you are way less likely to be caught in a reload when the enemy gives you his side).

1) Specific:  In the battles below I'm driving the T67.  It the most op stock tank in the game.  I can hear the screams of 'sealclubber' now.   But really, why wouldn't I drive the best tank in the tier?  Why would I drive anything else at tier 5?  (There are a couple other really good Tier 5 tanks FYI).  The T67 is fast, has great view range, has great camo, and great DPM.   These four great characteristics greatly overshadow it's two main weakness, which are NO armor, and low pen.  The no armor can be minimized by keeping the enemy at the edge of the view range circle.  With your great camo, and their bad vision, they can't see you to shoot you.  Low pen can typically be negated by the combination of knowing where to shoot, and pressing the 2 key (gold ammo = higher pen).

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2) General:  Know the maps, how they 'typically' play out, and where YOUR tank works best on each map.  There aren't that many maps.  Learn them.  Learn how they typically play out.  Know the choke points.  Know the best sniping spots.  Know which sections are death zones.  Know where pushing will work, and where it won't.  Know which TEAM play works best for each map, know which TEAM play doesn't work.  Know where your tank 'typically' needs to be.  Heavy tanks need cover and loath wide open spaces, take that heavy to the City.  Lights love the open spaces, and bushes to hide/spot/snipe from, get in that bush.  Mediums are flexible, learn where you medium is 'usually' most effective on each map.  And this is key for all maps, notice I used 'typically' or 'usually', always be flexible to what both teams are actually doing.  Start with your 'typical' plan, but be aware enough to change it immediately if you see your team doing something atypical.

2) Specific:  I'll touch on specific map strategy for each of the videos below.

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3)  General:  Drive by Mini-Map. Really, the only time you should be looking at the main screen is when you are actually aiming in for a shot.  Otherwise you should be focuses on the mini-map.  I literally drive by watching the mini-map (knowing the maps helps with this, see #1 above).  I only really watch the main screen when I'm shooting, or perhaps when I'm driving near a cliff or bridge or some other area that requires precision driving.  The mini-map shows you sooooo much.  It let's you see in 360 degree view.  It lets you see isolated tanks.  It lets you see weak spot in the enemy line.  It lets you see opportunities to help teammates.  IT LETS YOU SEE THE ENEMY IS GOING TO CAP WELL BEFORE THEY START TO CAP.  Which gives you that most important extra time to get back and reset/defend cap.

3) Specific:  I won't really be calling out how I'm watching the mini-map in the games below.  But what I challenge you to do, is get good enough watching the mini-map that you 'see what I'm going to do' BEFORE I do it.  If you can do that, you are reading the mini-map correctly.  (Do this when you are watching Quickybaby, Lemming Rush, Dauntless Tanker, or whomever your're watching on YouTube.

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4) General/Specific:  Do your homework.  WG doesn't really have an adequate way to really learn the subtleties of the game.  The best place to go is youtube.  I've found videos done by Quickybaby, Lemming Rush, Dauntless Tanker to be very useful.  Another way to use youtube like a laser training tool is to search the tank you are about to play.  Just pick up the T67?  Search youtube for 'T67 Ace Tanker', study a dozen of those videos before you ever drive the T67.  You'll be amazed how much better you play if you do.  This works for every tank.

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And those are the 'fundamentals' you need to master to 'get guud' at the game.

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What follows are several of the games from my 15-2 night.  Each one of them is a pretty 'heavy carry', none of which are 'miraculous' by any means - but enough of a carry that watching it might help give you insight to help your gameplay.  Better players, please jump in and point out what I could have done better.  Each battle is listed number 1-6.  Just be sure to say which battle your comment applies to.  And to repeat, these are 'solid' games, nothing extraordinary - so I'm sure there are moments that could be improved upon.  I also want to absolutely clear, I'm not singling out any particular player in any of these games.  I've turned of the names in battle to purposefully avoid any 'naming and shaming'.  This is tier 5 after all, and many of the teams were composed of newer players.  There is no sin in being new.

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A note about player skill, team skill balance, and chance to win.  XVM no longer calculates chance to win.  But you can do it manually with pretty good accuracy.  Simply count the number of skilled players on each team.  If one team has 3-4 more skilled players, they have a pretty good advantage.  XVM defines a skilled player as yellow, green, blue, or purple (average, good, very good, best).  Red and orange players are 'unskilled' players (typically newer players with less experience, still learning, nothing wrong with that, or them - we all started unskilled).

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BATTLE 01: Highway

1) Know your tank and how to drive it.  T67 on this map is made for the 1 line.  The 1 line is wide open, and there are several great hiding spots.  You can really use your view range and camo rating to it's maximum on 1 line.

2) Know the maps.  Unless there are a ton of heavies (6 or more on each team), Highway is won on the 1 line.  The city is just too slow, a team that pushes and takes 1 line will quickly outflank an enemy team who pushes city, especially if they do so with their medium and light tanks.  Most common mistake I see on this map is mediums/lights rushing to grid I-8 and camping the bush line to spot heavies going city.  Look, we know where the heavies are going, by tanking your medium/light to that sniping spot, you handicap the other medium/lights pushing the 1 line.  This usually results in the enemy winning the 1 line by the default of having more tanks go 1 line.

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Why this was a 'carry'.  This was a carry for a couple of reasons.  First, the enemy team had more skilled players, and they were stacked at the top of the tiers.  Second, I was my team's aggressor on the 1 line push.  Note, I was able to push aggressively because enough of my team pushed 1 line with me.  The enemy didn't, which is a large part of why we won the 1 line.  Third, I pushed cap hard.  This was vital to this win.  Look at the team xp counter at the top of the screen when I start to cap.  They had double the hit points.  Which means their heavies would have wiped the floor with us had we tried to attack them.   Also key, was those of us capping, just hid in cap.  So often you'll lose a game by shooting enemies from cap.  Shooting at an enemy means the enemy can see you, shoot back, and reset cap.  Don't shoot from cap unless you absolutely have to (and don't be afraid to leave cap if it's obvious the enemy has made it back and is going to reset you).

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BATTLE 02: Live Oaks

1) Know your tank and how to drive it.  T67 on this map is made for the 9 line.  The 9 line is wide open, and there are several ridges you can work to keep in cover.  View range and camo do come into play early, allowing you to usually get the first spots, before the enemy spots you.  But working the ridge lines, you can really capitalize on the great DPM - just remember you have no armor, so only poke and shoot when you know the enemy is not looking your way.

2) Know the maps.  Unless there are a ton of heavies (6 or more on each team), Highway is won on the 9 line.  The city is just too slow, a team that pushes and takes 9 line will quickly outflank an enemy team who pushes city, especially if they do so with their medium and light tanks.  Most common mistake I see on this map is mediums/lights rushing to grid E-2 (south spawn) or grid C-6 (north spawn) and camping the little hills to spot heavies going city.  Look, we know where the heavies are going, by tanking your medium/light to that sniping spot, you handicap the other medium/lights pushing the 9 line.  This usually results in the enemy winning the 9 line by the default of having more tanks go 9 line.

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Why was this a carry?  First off, this shouldn't have been a carry, as we had 7 skilled players to the enemies 2.  Big advantage us.  But it's a carry because, while we sent to many tanks to city/hill that snipes city, we did manage to take the 9 line - and just like Battle 1 - recognized they still had about double our hp - and we capped at the right time for the win.  Knowing when you have way less xp is huge, knowing to cap when this happens is what wins games like this.

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BATTLE 03: Arctic Region

1) Know your tank and how to drive it.  This map is a corridor map, going south is best left to armored tanks to brawl.  Mediums do well to the north, as there is a bit more room to wiggle.  On the map I find it's best to scout the mid in the T67, using it's great view range and great camo.  I spawn south and go the south spawn bush.  If no enemy pusses 7 line/other side of the rock - you can get great early spots of the enemy heavies pushing 9 line, but you need to be ready to fall back quick if you are spotted, as TDs usually pre-aim in on this location.  There is a counter bush e-8 for north spawn, which actually works even better.  A very important part of scouting early is knowing when to leave.  In this battle it becomes clear early that spotting mid is not doing much.  I fall back to my favorite spot on this map, j-4.  It's at the edge of the view circle, and when the enemy pushes around the south, you can just sit and farm and farm and farm.

2) Know the map.  I've kind of covered this in 1) above.  But it's very important to note that if both teams have, say, 6 heavies and 1 of your heavies gets cute and goes north, it leaves your teams heavies outnumbered on the south.  It's a great way to throw the battle.  And I've seen scouts scout the south.  Newsflash, all the heavies will be there, and they will vaporize you if they get a shot into you.  Go use your view range and speed to spot mid, or support north.

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Why was this a carry?   First off, it shouldn't have been.  Both teams had about the same number of skilled players.  But it was a carry because I stayed alive long enough to make a difference in the end.  And not by camping at back.  I tried to spot early, I did damage throughout the battle, I had the PATECIENCE at the end to beat the enemy.  It was a carry because in a Tier 7 battle I did 1,700 damage (top gun) in a tier 5 unarmored tank.  Also, this was one of those 'special' battles.  Look at the comment directed at me at 8:15.  Then look at the comment at 3:51. LOVE when that happens.

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BATTLE 4: Serene Coast

1) Know your tank and how to drive it.  This is a great map for a T67.  Plenty of early spotting options, plenty of room to use your camo and view range.  I like to take my T67 to the clump of trees (or the rock just to the left of the clump) to get early spots on heavies cross bridge/water on 9 line.  Alternately, there is a sweet spot from north spawn that counters this spot.  From north spawn, go to the last row of houses, there is gap in the middle of the row, arty safe, greats spots on heavies pushing H line.  One key characteristic of this map, it is very wide open.  If you push, you are more than likely to get sniped hard.  Note, I hover in my initial spot for longer than normal - as both teams were equally holding their sides of the map.  But at about the 11:00 minute mark, I see an opportunity on 9 line.  It's a 2 vs 2 situation, I know I have the speed to flank the enemy and make it a 3 vs 2.  Which I do.  I get some damage and 2 kills, although I didn't move in soon enough to save my teammates. 

2) Know the map.  This map is typically won the the 1 line.  Heavies usually push 9 line and get bogged down, the team that wins 1 line gets to flank the enemy heavies.  It's really lopsided, to the point where if 2-3 tanks go 9 line and just STALL, you can send 10-12 tanks and just crush 1 line for an easy win.  If the team works together that is.  This particular battle played a little flat, as neither team really pushed 1 or 9 line all that hard.  Again, I just used the word 'typically', because just as you should enter ever battle know what usually happens, you need to be prepared every battle to adapt to what actually happens.

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Why was this a carry?  Both teams only had a few skilled players, but this was a carry because I did twice as much damage as the next guy on  my team and 5 teammates did zero damage.  When 1/3 of your team does zero damage, you carried.  Oddly enough, the enemy M44 arty almost carried his team, he had the second highest damage (either team).  Good on him.

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BATTLE 5: Karelia

1) Know your tank and how to drive it.  This is another great map for the T67.  Plenty of open space to maximize camo and view range.  I like to start C-5 (south spawn) or D-3 (north spawn).  Both locations allow you to get good spots on enemies leaving the spawn areas, and both locations allow you to cover the base of the hill G-6.  Although in this game, an unusually low number of players pushed mid.

2) Know the map.  Heavies brawl 9 line.  Meds/lights push north/ 1 line.  Scouts light mid, then flex as opportunities arise.  In this battle, 2 our heavies went north instead of south/9 line.  This left us outgunned there, and we were rolled by the enemy team.

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Why this WASN'T a carry?  Well, mostly because it was a loss.  Sometimes no matter how much heavy lifting you do you just can't carry that much red-weight.  We had 8 red players, enemy had 3.  It's almost impossible to carry that.  I did over double the damage of the next teammate.  500 more damage than the top enemy.  I THREE MARKED THE TANK, and it still wasn't enough.  I do think a big part of this loss was I did not do enough damage early.  As I mentioned above, an unusually low number of tanks pushed mid.  This is what happens when you don't 'adjust' soon enough.

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BATTLE 6: El Halluf

1) Know your tank and how to drive it.  Another great map to maximize camo and view range.  In the T67 I will work the H line/South.  With limited armor and hp, I usually don't scout low valley, I set up to cover those who do.  A couple of tactics to note right at the start.  You'll see me kind of hover on the edge of the cliff at the start.  I'm doing that because there is an M5 at the bottom of the cliff, I use the XVM 'minimum spot ring' to keep just over 50' away from the M5 to avoid being autospotted.  You'll also see me creep out and take a shot at the enemy T67.  The important part is I take my shot and immediately pull back into cover - I don't wait for 6th sense.  You should 'know' the enemy are just waiting to snipe you the second you are lit.  Waiting for 6th sense gives them a full 3 seconds of aim time.  Also notice, I move around at least a little, so as to avoid arty.  If you just pull back 5' and sit still, arty has 10 seconds to see you sitting there, aim in and shoot you.

2) Know the map.  Heavy tanks push the northwest corner.  Armored TD should go with them, as sniping bluff is a waste of the armor.  Lightly armored TD should snipe mid from ridge.  Mediums flex where it looks like you'll do the most good, this can be either support the heavies, or push south with the lights.  Lights have the most important job on this map.  You have to scout mid valley, as clearing the valley and the enemy mid-ridge allows you to flank the enemy heavies.  The worst mistake made on this map is camping ridge, or at least camping ridge far too long.  All too often you'll see 3-4 tanks sit there the whole game doing practically nothing.  Taking your gun out of the game only gives the enemy an advantage.  Notice how, once I figured the mid was clear, I pushed across.  Allowing my team to snipe the enemy mid-ridge.

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Why this was a carry?  I need to be clear here, this was a 'half team carry'.  Why, because SEVEN teammates did no damage.  When half the team does all the damage, that's a half-team damage.  Need to thank my teammates who took north.

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SUMMARY:

So how do YOU lose?  By not knowing your tank, by not knowing the maps. and by not watching the Mini-map (Hopefully your eyes were fixed on the mini-map when you watched the battles above).  Low skill level is THE most frustrating aspect of this game.  Now I don't really blame the player base, there really isn't any effective tutorials provided by WG.  WG compounds this by not balancing skill between teams.  Back in gradeschool we all learned how to pick teams:  The two best players were team captains, each one turns picking the remaining classmates so that the end result was both teams had 'ABOUT' the same number of good, average, and bad players.  It made kickball competitive, and thus fun.  WG needs to remember the grade school lessons, and balance the teams based on skill - I'm just so tired of 'carrying' - and I'm just a 'good' player.  I can't imagine how really good players or unicums must feel having to carry most of their games.  And it's really not just about 'me' carrying.  The average player shouldn't have to produce 'ace tanker level' results just to get a win.  Roughly even teams would make the game more fun for everyone.  Finally, I want to thank all my teammates and enemies for playing, without them it's be a pretty dull game.

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In response to some of the comments that follow this post, I've decided to add a few 'bonus' battles.  These were not from the 15-2 night, but they address some of the less construction comments.

BONUS BATTLE 1: Westfield - This battle is in response to all those 'he only plays tier 2' comments you will see.  I did play a lot of tier 2, but if you look real close you'll see the T-18 was one of my big favorites -when it was a TD.  It's now an arty.  How long has it been an arty?  About as long as I haven't really played tier 2.  Anyway, this is a Tier 10 battle where I do 'pretty well' if I do say so myself.  Nothing spectacular, but certainly not the 'tier 2 only noob' they accuse me of being.  Note, all the tips from the battles above apply.

1) Know your tank and how to drive it. I'm in the Obj.140.  Relatively mobile, ok armor, ok view range, very very good gun/dpm.  The key to the Obj.140 is to keep the gun firing while not being shot.  Working ridge lines, flanking enemies, can be a decent sniper.

2) Know the map.   For a medium tank, there are two viable options on this map.  You can help the heavies take the north hill, or you can push the south hill with the other mediums and lights.  In my experience, the team that wins north hill wins this map 90% of the time.  Why?  The north hill has a better view/command of the rest of the map, be it covering your cap, the south hill, the mid valley, or the enemy cap.  Remember: Spawn Hill, Go Hill, Win Hill, Win Battle.  The worst mistake (and it's made soooo often) if for tanks that spawn north to leave hill, either to push the little city on hill, or to go snipe bluff.  ALL THIS DOES is leave your teammates who go hill outnumbered, it almost always guarantees a loss.  If my tank is fast enough, I'll go help north hill even if I spawn south.  It really is the THE dominant spot on this map.

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Why this was a carry?  Not really a carry-carry.  I did well, 5 kills, 4k damage.  But my team did well as well, especially the FV4005, he had a great game.  Although if I hadn't pushed up to help north hill, there was a good chance we wouldn't have won it, and probably lost.  It helped that one of the enemy fv4005 left hill, giving us a 6 vs 4 advantage.

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Additional response to some of the comments that follow.  The term "Sealclubbing" was thrown in my general direction - a lot.  But they are all wrong, and appear not to know what sealclubbing is.  Sealclubbing is when a player who is very good at high tiers drops down to play lower tiers to 'club' newer less experienced players.  I CAN'T BE a sealclubber, just take a quick look at the stats in my tier 9 and tier 10 tanks.  You have to be a 'good' high tier player to be a sealclubber.  When I play tier 5-8, I'm playing at the right tier level for my general skill level.  And it follows, I played a lot of low tiers, got good at it.  Moved up to mid tiers, got good at it.  Hopefully, will get good at high tiers, move up.  Which is how this should work.  So many trolls will say 'you suck' out of one side of their face, then say 'sealclubber' out the other side.  It can't be both.

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Anyways, I wish the trolls would spend more time giving extra tips as this post was intended.  Name callling is not helping a single newer player.


 


 


 



nosreborg #2 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 09:16

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Well spoken and thank you for your information and insight.

Edited by nosreborg, Jan 11 2018 - 09:16.


murdockwan #3 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 09:42

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Was going great till T67.

tanopasman62 #4 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 09:54

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View Postmurdockwan, on Jan 11 2018 - 09:42, said:

Was going great till T67.

 

Stat padders gonna pad.

chxrokee #5 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 09:57

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while i disagree with a lot of this, i appreciate the effort to educate newer/lesser skilled players

Urdr #6 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 10:16

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Homework? I play because I dont wanna do "homework."

Good tanks? I play the tanks cause I like them :child:

Good tips though :child:



_Binary_Bullseye_ #7 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 10:17

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Is this supposed to be a clubbers guide to sealclubbing? 9000 battles in tier 2 and most played and you expect this to teach anyone anything?

shiil #8 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 10:27

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This would have been great post if you didn't justify sealclubing by " why shouldn't I drive T67" BS. 

What is the point giving new players these advices when ppl like you seal club them daily letting them no room to improve and develope skills?

 

Sealclubing senior players in OP tanks are one of the reasons the game population is not growing any more, I mean how a new player supposed to stay and get to the higher tiers when they are instantly destroyed by unseen OP tank over and over?



n00bfarmer #9 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 10:42

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I don't understand all the whine about "seal clubbers". I remember being new and if I saw someone doing really well, I didn't cry about it and make whine posts about seal clubbers but instead I thought, "I will have to unlock that tank and try it out as it seems to be really good". I never once thought of them seal clubbing until I saw people talking about it on forums or in game. But, that is the way the real world works too. You are either the clubber or the clubee and you have two choices: 1. Be strong and club or 2. get clubbed and cry about it.

_Binary_Bullseye_ #10 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 10:46

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View Postn00bfarmer, on Jan 11 2018 - 10:42, said:

I don't understand all the whine about "seal clubbers". I remember being new and if I saw someone doing really well, I didn't cry about it and make whine posts about seal clubbers but instead I thought, "I will have to unlock that tank and try it out as it seems to be really good". I never once thought of them seal clubbing until I saw people talking about it on forums or in game. But, that is the way the real world works too. You are either the clubber or the clubee and you have two choices: 1. Be strong and club or 2. get clubbed and cry about it.

 

you forgot 3.

club and hide at lower levels and refuse to move up and better when it's easier to chase the new players away by being a jack@**, and then post in the forums behind an alt account so you don't out yourself as one of those jack@** that chase the new players away.



Firemoth #11 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 11:09

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"how to carry games" by bikebuddha.

 

prologue: words that make me sound like i am a good player

chapter1: club seals and pretend i am a good player

epilogue: complain about MM when i am tier 8, do less than my HP of damage and dont get carried by super unicums.


Edited by Firemoth, Jan 11 2018 - 11:10.


Elusive89 #12 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 11:59

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Why video one isn't a carry...

 - Poor map and situational awareness.

 - Giving up 75%+ of your HP within the first 25% of the game.

 - Repeated tunnel vision and extremely poor use of map layout and terrain.

 - Repeated failure to use camo mechanics effectively.

 

Why it is a "carry"...

 - Held 'W', shot some tanks, yolo'd in, luckily didn't get killed poking the same position again and again with a paper turret, and sat on cap.

 

And above all, as you already tried to sit and justify.... You're playing at tier 5, with a 4-skill crew against enemies who likely don't even have a crew that's even at 100% base experience. Realistically, they're probably 75-80% at best. Hell, the green O-I on the enemy team doesn't even have 500 battles under his belt. It's also very unlikely that most of these players have even basic equipment on their tank.

 

Video two, sorry but, same story. Drove forward, shot some stuff, yolo'd to cap, and fortunately it's low tiers, people have atrocious awareness, and you stacked 3 tanks on cap and won. Try this same strategy against well-equipped tanks and decent players, and it will fail every time.



Knagar #13 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 12:07

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1 and 2 are wrong in my opinion. Bad tanks don't exist, only bad tankers. A good tanker can figure out the strengths of a tank and play to them, they also know how to mitigate the weaknesses to a degree. That doesn't mean they could carry every single game, but in my opinion every tank is a good tank if you play it right.

Number 2 is something I wish people would get out of their heads. Every map has a preferred way of being played, and that's sort of stuck on everyone that each map should be played one specific way. That's bunk in my opinion, every map has more than one way to win and sometimes coming at a team with an idea out of left field works. Being where a team doesn't expect you to be can really throw them off and leave them wondering what to do since you've thrown their carefully laid plans regarding the meta of some map clear out the window.

madgiecool #14 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 12:15

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Is it hard to carry at tier 2?

 

 



n00bfarmer #15 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 12:17

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With the quality of the typical players on your teams in pub battle, this video clip is a good representation about how much you have to do in a battle to scrape out a win nowadays:



madgiecool #16 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 12:20

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-edit-

CapPhrases #17 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 12:36

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wait capping just leaves you out in the open for better skilled players spot and snipe you out in the ope with no cover.

capping can and does work if you have like 3 guys doing it before they can get back/ have meatwalls running interference or you know it will take them waaaay too long to trundle across the map to you.



Tilith #18 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 12:48

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tired of carrying

-only shows t67

:teethhappy:



_Gungrave_ #19 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 13:01

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Check OP's stats...most of his matches are in lower tier tanks.

 

Very few people are going to take you seriously OP when you pad that much.


Edited by _Gungrave_, Jan 11 2018 - 13:13.


ClutchPin #20 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 13:09

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Dang, so much good premise when I saw the intro. 15-2 w/r different maps.  I am ready to learn! Nope T67 seal clubbing all the way.  Please go away, no one cares about how well you did in a seal clubber.




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