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Why YOU lose, why I'm tired of carrying, and other ramblings from a pretty good night...


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Kliphie #81 Posted Jan 13 2018 - 15:10

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View Post_Gungrave_, on Jan 13 2018 - 08:02, said:

 

I find scouts are a bit more team dependant simply because you're relying on so many to shoot stuff you spot. Arty on the other hand can deal out damage and get assists with little to no trouble because something will generally be spotted most of the time.

 

As a thought experiment, if you had to carry a game on your own, would you rather be in a light or an spg?

RNG_is_Magic #82 Posted Jan 13 2018 - 17:25

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View PostElusive89, on Jan 13 2018 - 02:41, said:

 

It's scenarios like this in which players make very, very poor decisions, miraculously don't die, and the team comes through to win the game, and they continue to believe that they indeed did everything right. They will do this very same play in subsequent games, get completely rekt, yet continue to believe because of "that one time". 

 

"THE MOVE WORKED" ... (once).

 

In their head it gives them the built in excuse when it doesn't work that it was the teams fault not their own when it doesn't work.

Sgt__Guffy #83 Posted Jan 13 2018 - 18:11

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View PostElusive89, on Jan 13 2018 - 02:41, said:

 

It's scenarios like this in which players make very, very poor decisions, miraculously don't die, and the team comes through to win the game, and they continue to believe that they indeed did everything right. They will do this very same play in subsequent games, get completely rekt, yet continue to believe because of "that one time". 

 

"THE MOVE WORKED" ... (once).

 

That is because it is not necessarily the best team that won, but the least worst. I am sure you have the same experience as me where the team you are playing with simply do not deserve to win with non existent tactics, they usually win because they can shoot better than the other team, nothing more.

sergeantmine09 #84 Posted Jan 13 2018 - 18:25

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View Postbikebudha1, on Jan 11 2018 - 02:03, said:

I think WG does a pretty lackluster job at player education.  This year I'm going to try and focus my posts into (hopefully) useful/educational posts in an effort to improve the skill of the player base.  I ask your responses to this post follow that sentiment, and help me help the player base.  With that in mind...

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So the other night I had a pretty good night, I went 15 wins and 2 losses.  This included a 10 win streak in the middle.  At the end of the night I was reflecting on how this happened.  Some of reasons are good, some of the reasons are bad.  Hopefully my discussion of them will serve to give newer or less skilled players just a bit of insight as to how to play a tad bit better.

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There are just a few key strategies to being good in this game.  I list the general strategies below, and follow up with specifics from this night.

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1)  General: Know which tanks are good, and how to drive them.  All tanks are not created equal.  Some tanks are built to carry in the current Meta, others do terrible in the current Meta.  The current Meta favors: Speed, View Range, Camo, Damage Per Minute (in that order).   Speed allows you to be where you need to be, or leave where you shouldn't be.  View range lets you see the enemy before they can see you.  Camo lets you see the enemy when they can't see you.  DPM lets you kill tanks quickly.  DPM is better than Alpha.  Why?  If you have a high alpha gun, you get maybe 3-4 shots per minute.  So if you miss or bounce (which happens a lot), your DMP drops dramatically.  But in a low alpha gun, you get maybe 10-15 shots a minute.  So if you miss or bounce a couple, you still do most of your damage.  Plus, being able to take lots of shots allows means you'll be that much more likely to have a round in the chamber when an opportunity to shoot presents itself (you are way less likely to be caught in a reload when the enemy gives you his side).

1) Specific:  In the battles below I'm driving the T67.  It the most op stock tank in the game.  I can hear the screams of 'sealclubber' now.   But really, why wouldn't I drive the best tank in the tier?  Why would I drive anything else at tier 5?  (There are a couple other really good Tier 5 tanks FYI).  The T67 is fast, has great view range, has great camo, and great DPM.   These four great characteristics greatly overshadow it's two main weakness, which are NO armor, and low pen.  The no armor can be minimized by keeping the enemy at the edge of the view range circle.  With your great camo, and their bad vision, they can't see you to shoot you.  Low pen can typically be negated by the combination of knowing where to shoot, and pressing the 2 key (gold ammo = higher pen).

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2) General:  Know the maps, how they 'typically' play out, and where YOUR tank works best on each map.  There aren't that many maps.  Learn them.  Learn how they typically play out.  Know the choke points.  Know the best sniping spots.  Know which sections are death zones.  Know where pushing will work, and where it won't.  Know which TEAM play works best for each map, know which TEAM play doesn't work.  Know where your tank 'typically' needs to be.  Heavy tanks need cover and loath wide open spaces, take that heavy to the City.  Lights love the open spaces, and bushes to hide/spot/snipe from, get in that bush.  Mediums are flexible, learn where you medium is 'usually' most effective on each map.  And this is key for all maps, notice I used 'typically' or 'usually', always be flexible to what both teams are actually doing.  Start with your 'typical' plan, but be aware enough to change it immediately if you see your team doing something atypical.

2) Specific:  I'll touch on specific map strategy for each of the videos below.

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3)  General:  Drive by Mini-Map. Really, the only time you should be looking at the main screen is when you are actually aiming in for a shot.  Otherwise you should be focuses on the mini-map.  I literally drive by watching the mini-map (knowing the maps helps with this, see #1 above).  I only really watch the main screen when I'm shooting, or perhaps when I'm driving near a cliff or bridge or some other area that requires precision driving.  The mini-map shows you sooooo much.  It let's you see in 360 degree view.  It lets you see isolated tanks.  It lets you see weak spot in the enemy line.  It lets you see opportunities to help teammates.  IT LETS YOU SEE THE ENEMY IS GOING TO CAP WELL BEFORE THEY START TO CAP.  Which gives you that most important extra time to get back and reset/defend cap.

3) Specific:  I won't really be calling out how I'm watching the mini-map in the games below.  But what I challenge you to do, is get good enough watching the mini-map that you 'see what I'm going to do' BEFORE I do it.  If you can do that, you are reading the mini-map correctly.  (Do this when you are watching Quickybaby, Lemming Rush, Dauntless Tanker, or whomever your're watching on YouTube.

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4) General/Specific:  Do your homework.  WG doesn't really have an adequate way to really learn the subtleties of the game.  The best place to go is youtube.  I've found videos done by Quickybaby, Lemming Rush, Dauntless Tanker to be very useful.  Another way to use youtube like a laser training tool is to search the tank you are about to play.  Just pick up the T67?  Search youtube for 'T67 Ace Tanker', study a dozen of those videos before you ever drive the T67.  You'll be amazed how much better you play if you do.  This works for every tank.

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And those are the 'fundamentals' you need to master to 'get guud' at the game.

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What follows are several of the games from my 15-2 night.  Each one of them is a pretty 'heavy carry', none of which are 'miraculous' by any means - but enough of a carry that watching it might help give you insight to help your gameplay.  Better players, please jump in and point out what I could have done better.  Each battle is listed number 1-6.  Just be sure to say which battle your comment applies to.  And to repeat, these are 'solid' games, nothing extraordinary - so I'm sure there are moments that could be improved upon.  I also want to absolutely clear, I'm not singling out any particular player in any of these games.  I've turned of the names in battle to purposefully avoid any 'naming and shaming'.  This is tier 5 after all, and many of the teams were composed of newer players.  There is no sin in being new.

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A note about player skill, team skill balance, and chance to win.  XVM no longer calculates chance to win.  But you can do it manually with pretty good accuracy.  Simply count the number of skilled players on each team.  If one team has 3-4 more skilled players, they have a pretty good advantage.  XVM defines a skilled player as yellow, green, blue, or purple (average, good, very good, best).  Red and orange players are 'unskilled' players (typically newer players with less experience, still learning, nothing wrong with that, or them - we all started unskilled).

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BATTLE 01: Highway

1) Know your tank and how to drive it.  T67 on this map is made for the 1 line.  The 1 line is wide open, and there are several great hiding spots.  You can really use your view range and camo rating to it's maximum on 1 line.

2) Know the maps.  Unless there are a ton of heavies (6 or more on each team), Highway is won on the 1 line.  The city is just too slow, a team that pushes and takes 1 line will quickly outflank an enemy team who pushes city, especially if they do so with their medium and light tanks.  Most common mistake I see on this map is mediums/lights rushing to grid I-8 and camping the bush line to spot heavies going city.  Look, we know where the heavies are going, by tanking your medium/light to that sniping spot, you handicap the other medium/lights pushing the 1 line.  This usually results in the enemy winning the 1 line by the default of having more tanks go 1 line.

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Why this was a 'carry'.  This was a carry for a couple of reasons.  First, the enemy team had more skilled players, and they were stacked at the top of the tiers.  Second, I was my team's aggressor on the 1 line push.  Note, I was able to push aggressively because enough of my team pushed 1 line with me.  The enemy didn't, which is a large part of why we won the 1 line.  Third, I pushed cap hard.  This was vital to this win.  Look at the team xp counter at the top of the screen when I start to cap.  They had double the hit points.  Which means their heavies would have wiped the floor with us had we tried to attack them.   Also key, was those of us capping, just hid in cap.  So often you'll lose a game by shooting enemies from cap.  Shooting at an enemy means the enemy can see you, shoot back, and reset cap.  Don't shoot from cap unless you absolutely have to (and don't be afraid to leave cap if it's obvious the enemy has made it back and is going to reset you).

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BATTLE 02: Live Oaks

1) Know your tank and how to drive it.  T67 on this map is made for the 9 line.  The 9 line is wide open, and there are several ridges you can work to keep in cover.  View range and camo do come into play early, allowing you to usually get the first spots, before the enemy spots you.  But working the ridge lines, you can really capitalize on the great DPM - just remember you have no armor, so only poke and shoot when you know the enemy is not looking your way.

2) Know the maps.  Unless there are a ton of heavies (6 or more on each team), Highway is won on the 9 line.  The city is just too slow, a team that pushes and takes 9 line will quickly outflank an enemy team who pushes city, especially if they do so with their medium and light tanks.  Most common mistake I see on this map is mediums/lights rushing to grid E-2 (south spawn) or grid C-6 (north spawn) and camping the little hills to spot heavies going city.  Look, we know where the heavies are going, by tanking your medium/light to that sniping spot, you handicap the other medium/lights pushing the 9 line.  This usually results in the enemy winning the 9 line by the default of having more tanks go 9 line.

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Why was this a carry?  First off, this shouldn't have been a carry, as we had 7 skilled players to the enemies 2.  Big advantage us.  But it's a carry because, while we sent to many tanks to city/hill that snipes city, we did manage to take the 9 line - and just like Battle 1 - recognized they still had about double our hp - and we capped at the right time for the win.  Knowing when you have way less xp is huge, knowing to cap when this happens is what wins games like this.

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BATTLE 03: Arctic Region

1) Know your tank and how to drive it.  This map is a corridor map, going south is best left to armored tanks to brawl.  Mediums do well to the north, as there is a bit more room to wiggle.  On the map I find it's best to scout the mid in the T67, using it's great view range and great camo.  I spawn south and go the south spawn bush.  If no enemy pusses 7 line/other side of the rock - you can get great early spots of the enemy heavies pushing 9 line, but you need to be ready to fall back quick if you are spotted, as TDs usually pre-aim in on this location.  There is a counter bush e-8 for north spawn, which actually works even better.  A very important part of scouting early is knowing when to leave.  In this battle it becomes clear early that spotting mid is not doing much.  I fall back to my favorite spot on this map, j-4.  It's at the edge of the view circle, and when the enemy pushes around the south, you can just sit and farm and farm and farm.

2) Know the map.  I've kind of covered this in 1) above.  But it's very important to note that if both teams have, say, 6 heavies and 1 of your heavies gets cute and goes north, it leaves your teams heavies outnumbered on the south.  It's a great way to throw the battle.  And I've seen scouts scout the south.  Newsflash, all the heavies will be there, and they will vaporize you if they get a shot into you.  Go use your view range and speed to spot mid, or support north.

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Why was this a carry?   First off, it shouldn't have been.  Both teams had about the same number of skilled players.  But it was a carry because I stayed alive long enough to make a difference in the end.  And not by camping at back.  I tried to spot early, I did damage throughout the battle, I had the PATECIENCE at the end to beat the enemy.  It was a carry because in a Tier 7 battle I did 1,700 damage (top gun) in a tier 5 unarmored tank.  Also, this was one of those 'special' battles.  Look at the comment directed at me at 8:15.  Then look at the comment at 3:51. LOVE when that happens.

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BATTLE 4: Serene Coast

1) Know your tank and how to drive it.  This is a great map for a T67.  Plenty of early spotting options, plenty of room to use your camo and view range.  I like to take my T67 to the clump of trees (or the rock just to the left of the clump) to get early spots on heavies cross bridge/water on 9 line.  Alternately, there is a sweet spot from north spawn that counters this spot.  From north spawn, go to the last row of houses, there is gap in the middle of the row, arty safe, greats spots on heavies pushing H line.  One key characteristic of this map, it is very wide open.  If you push, you are more than likely to get sniped hard.  Note, I hover in my initial spot for longer than normal - as both teams were equally holding their sides of the map.  But at about the 11:00 minute mark, I see an opportunity on 9 line.  It's a 2 vs 2 situation, I know I have the speed to flank the enemy and make it a 3 vs 2.  Which I do.  I get some damage and 2 kills, although I didn't move in soon enough to save my teammates. 

2) Know the map.  This map is typically won the the 1 line.  Heavies usually push 9 line and get bogged down, the team that wins 1 line gets to flank the enemy heavies.  It's really lopsided, to the point where if 2-3 tanks go 9 line and just STALL, you can send 10-12 tanks and just crush 1 line for an easy win.  If the team works together that is.  This particular battle played a little flat, as neither team really pushed 1 or 9 line all that hard.  Again, I just used the word 'typically', because just as you should enter ever battle know what usually happens, you need to be prepared every battle to adapt to what actually happens.

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Why was this a carry?  Both teams only had a few skilled players, but this was a carry because I did twice as much damage as the next guy on  my team and 5 teammates did zero damage.  When 1/3 of your team does zero damage, you carried.  Oddly enough, the enemy M44 arty almost carried his team, he had the second highest damage (either team).  Good on him.

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BATTLE 5: Karelia

1) Know your tank and how to drive it.  This is another great map for the T67.  Plenty of open space to maximize camo and view range.  I like to start C-5 (south spawn) or D-3 (north spawn).  Both locations allow you to get good spots on enemies leaving the spawn areas, and both locations allow you to cover the base of the hill G-6.  Although in this game, an unusually low number of players pushed mid.

2) Know the map.  Heavies brawl 9 line.  Meds/lights push north/ 1 line.  Scouts light mid, then flex as opportunities arise.  In this battle, 2 our heavies went north instead of south/9 line.  This left us outgunned there, and we were rolled by the enemy team.

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Why this WASN'T a carry?  Well, mostly because it was a loss.  Sometimes no matter how much heavy lifting you do you just can't carry that much red-weight.  We had 8 red players, enemy had 3.  It's almost impossible to carry that.  I did over double the damage of the next teammate.  500 more damage than the top enemy.  I THREE MARKED THE TANK, and it still wasn't enough.  I do think a big part of this loss was I did not do enough damage early.  As I mentioned above, an unusually low number of tanks pushed mid.  This is what happens when you don't 'adjust' soon enough.

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BATTLE 6: El Halluf

1) Know your tank and how to drive it.  Another great map to maximize camo and view range.  In the T67 I will work the H line/South.  With limited armor and hp, I usually don't scout low valley, I set up to cover those who do.  A couple of tactics to note right at the start.  You'll see me kind of hover on the edge of the cliff at the start.  I'm doing that because there is an M5 at the bottom of the cliff, I use the XVM 'minimum spot ring' to keep just over 50' away from the M5 to avoid being autospotted.  You'll also see me creep out and take a shot at the enemy T67.  The important part is I take my shot and immediately pull back into cover - I don't wait for 6th sense.  You should 'know' the enemy are just waiting to snipe you the second you are lit.  Waiting for 6th sense gives them a full 3 seconds of aim time.  Also notice, I move around at least a little, so as to avoid arty.  If you just pull back 5' and sit still, arty has 10 seconds to see you sitting there, aim in and shoot you.

2) Know the map.  Heavy tanks push the northwest corner.  Armored TD should go with them, as sniping bluff is a waste of the armor.  Lightly armored TD should snipe mid from ridge.  Mediums flex where it looks like you'll do the most good, this can be either support the heavies, or push south with the lights.  Lights have the most important job on this map.  You have to scout mid valley, as clearing the valley and the enemy mid-ridge allows you to flank the enemy heavies.  The worst mistake made on this map is camping ridge, or at least camping ridge far too long.  All too often you'll see 3-4 tanks sit there the whole game doing practically nothing.  Taking your gun out of the game only gives the enemy an advantage.  Notice how, once I figured the mid was clear, I pushed across.  Allowing my team to snipe the enemy mid-ridge.

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Why this was a carry?  I need to be clear here, this was a 'half team carry'.  Why, because SEVEN teammates did no damage.  When half the team does all the damage, that's a half-team damage.  Need to thank my teammates who took north.

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SUMMARY:

So how do YOU lose?  By not knowing your tank, by not knowing the maps. and by not watching the Mini-map (Hopefully your eyes were fixed on the mini-map when you watched the battles above).  Low skill level is THE most frustrating aspect of this game.  Now I don't really blame the player base, there really isn't any effective tutorials provided by WG.  WG compounds this by not balancing skill between teams.  Back in gradeschool we all learned how to pick teams:  The two best players were team captains, each one turns picking the remaining classmates so that the end result was both teams had 'ABOUT' the same number of good, average, and bad players.  It made kickball competitive, and thus fun.  WG needs to remember the grade school lessons, and balance the teams based on skill - I'm just so tired of 'carrying' - and I'm just a 'good' player.  I can't imagine how really good players or unicums must feel having to carry most of their games.  And it's really not just about 'me' carrying.  The average player shouldn't have to produce 'ace tanker level' results just to get a win.  Roughly even teams would make the game more fun for everyone.  Finally, I want to thank all my teammates and enemies for playing, without them it's be a pretty dull game.

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In response to some of the comments that follow this post, I've decided to add a few 'bonus' battles.  These were not from the 15-2 night, but they address some of the less construction comments.

BONUS BATTLE 1: Westfield - This battle is in response to all those 'he only plays tier 2' comments you will see.  I did play a lot of tier 2, but if you look real close you'll see the T-18 was one of my big favorites -when it was a TD.  It's now an arty.  How long has it been an arty?  About as long as I haven't really played tier 2.  Anyway, this is a Tier 10 battle where I do 'pretty well' if I do say so myself.  Nothing spectacular, but certainly not the 'tier 2 only noob' they accuse me of being.  Note, all the tips from the battles above apply.

1) Know your tank and how to drive it. I'm in the Obj.140.  Relatively mobile, ok armor, ok view range, very very good gun/dpm.  The key to the Obj.140 is to keep the gun firing while not being shot.  Working ridge lines, flanking enemies, can be a decent sniper.

2) Know the map.   For a medium tank, there are two viable options on this map.  You can help the heavies take the north hill, or you can push the south hill with the other mediums and lights.  In my experience, the team that wins north hill wins this map 90% of the time.  Why?  The north hill has a better view/command of the rest of the map, be it covering your cap, the south hill, the mid valley, or the enemy cap.  Remember: Spawn Hill, Go Hill, Win Hill, Win Battle.  The worst mistake (and it's made soooo often) if for tanks that spawn north to leave hill, either to push the little city on hill, or to go snipe bluff.  ALL THIS DOES is leave your teammates who go hill outnumbered, it almost always guarantees a loss.  If my tank is fast enough, I'll go help north hill even if I spawn south.  It really is the THE dominant spot on this map.

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Why this was a carry?  Not really a carry-carry.  I did well, 5 kills, 4k damage.  But my team did well as well, especially the FV4005, he had a great game.  Although if I hadn't pushed up to help north hill, there was a good chance we wouldn't have won it, and probably lost.  It helped that one of the enemy fv4005 left hill, giving us a 6 vs 4 advantage.

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Additional response to some of the comments that follow.  The term "Sealclubbing" was thrown in my general direction - a lot.  But they are all wrong, and appear not to know what sealclubbing is.  Sealclubbing is when a player who is very good at high tiers drops down to play lower tiers to 'club' newer less experienced players.  I CAN'T BE a sealclubber, just take a quick look at the stats in my tier 9 and tier 10 tanks.  You have to be a 'good' high tier player to be a sealclubber.  When I play tier 5-8, I'm playing at the right tier level for my general skill level.  And it follows, I played a lot of low tiers, got good at it.  Moved up to mid tiers, got good at it.  Hopefully, will get good at high tiers, move up.  Which is how this should work.  So many trolls will say 'you suck' out of one side of their face, then say 'sealclubber' out the other side.  It can't be both.

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Anyways, I wish the trolls would spend more time giving extra tips as this post was intended.  Name callling is not helping a single newer player.


 


 


 

 

You're trying to teach people that don't want to learn and don't care to learn. Sorry, but they just won't change

cloudwalkr #85 Posted Jan 13 2018 - 22:06

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View Postbikebudha1, on Jan 13 2018 - 06:44, said:

 

"Yolo out for a T69", wow, you really didn't watch the game did you.  The t69 beat me to the corner where I was going to hold.  Not only did he beat me there, he blew past it.  That means he would have been on my right, while the other 2 enemy tanks would have been on my left.  I would have been totally flanked by 3 tanks and died almost instantly.  There was not time to back up, I was going full speed, you I railed to the right as quickly as I could so as to put all 3 tanks in front of me and avoid being flanked.  I was able to get a shot into the T69 on the way.  I made the move so fast the AUTOLOADER on my [edited]only got 1 shot off.  I ended up in a highly defensible position, hull down against the stairs.  Where I successfully killed the t69, and locked the T57 and T54 into place.  They couldn't even flank me because my T-10 had my side covered, to the extent that when the T57 did flank, arty was able to take him out.  Keep in mind, most of my team (correctly) pushed the 1 line, our TDs (incorrectly) camped J-7, initially not supporting us.  So we were in a 2 vs 4 situation - had we not held as long as we did, they would have flanked our cap and the mediums on 1 line.  Oh, most importantly THE MOVE WORKED.  2ND Class effort, did more then twice the damage of my next teammate, I got the most xp on either team, did three times the damage of the best enemy, got the most kills on my team.

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Your idea of 'worst' is more than a bit off.

 

Is that what you think happened there?   You did nothing more than make a rookie mistake chasing a tank and got lucky that you didn't die for it immediately.  The only reason you lived at that building is because the t57 and that other guy suck at shooting, nothing more.  You didn't "lock" them down, they chose to stay there far to long when they could have just aimed better, or relocated if they didn't have clean shots sooner.  They chose to sit there and let you reload on them over and over.

 

This is a prime example of you doing something insane, the stars aligning, you getting lucky on top of it all, and then coming out thinking you pulled a high skill game.  You try to pass this off as high level game play which is the worst because some new player out there might see this yolo you just pulled and think it will work for them.

 

I stand by my point that this was one of the worst examples of IS-7 "high level" game play I've seen and a horrible example for others who don't know better to learn from. 

 

You should have just hugged in on the buildings you were at and made them peek you.  You had people backing you up, not many, but a few, and the t69 would have had a hell of a time penning you.  That was your best "rational" bet.  Driving out, giving your backside to the 2 autoloaders was the worst possible thing you could have done. 

 

Another course you could have taken when realizing they had you overmatched on the 0 line (BIG FKING SHOCKER) would have been to pull back into that little square courtyard where there was a single tank at and force a 1v1 with him effectively taking the t57, t69, and the other guy out of the fight for the moment.

 

All that t69 truly had to do was block you out right there and you're dead.  He instead didn't realize that he had already screwed up and was dead anyway, so he tried to circle the building and get away.  But honestly, he was dead at the point he crossed to that house realistically.  Bottom line is you're passing off serious back choices and a lot of luck as knowledge and skill, and that's dangerous.  I've done some coaching in skydiving and when i would see people like you trying to give advice to young jumpers i would always think "wounder how many he talks to before he gets someone killed".   Yes, i know...this isn't real life, but your mentality is crazy similar.



cloudwalkr #86 Posted Jan 13 2018 - 23:01

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View Postbikebudh

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Additional response to some of the comments that follow.  The term "Sealclubbing" was thrown in my general direction - a lot.  But they are all wrong, and appear not to know what sealclubbing is.  Sealclubbing is when a player who is very good at high tiers drops down to play lower tiers to 'club' newer less experienced players.  I CAN'T BE a sealclubber, just take a quick look at the stats in my tier 9 and tier 10 tanks.  You have to be a 'good' high tier player to be a sealclubber.

 

This is the funniest thing Budha has ever said.  Guys i can't be a clubber with my THOUSANDS of games played at beginner level because I'm not good at end game content.  This says all you need to know about budha and anyone who takes this troll seriously....i just feel sorry for those people.  He's right about one thing though, someone doesn't understand what a sealclubber is and uses anything in the book he can think of to justify it and make himself feel better.

 

Keep preaching budha...



_Prometh3us #87 Posted Jan 13 2018 - 23:13

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Hes one of those guys that could fall out a boat hit water and still believe he isn't wet.

SinisterMist #88 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 07:15

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View PostKnagar, on Jan 11 2018 - 05:07, said:

1 and 2 are wrong in my opinion. Bad tanks don't exist, only bad tankers. A good tanker can figure out the strengths of a tank and play to them, they also know how to mitigate the weaknesses to a degree. That doesn't mean they could carry every single game, but in my opinion every tank is a good tank if you play it right.

Number 2 is something I wish people would get out of their heads. Every map has a preferred way of being played, and that's sort of stuck on everyone that each map should be played one specific way. That's bunk in my opinion, every map has more than one way to win and sometimes coming at a team with an idea out of left field works. Being where a team doesn't expect you to be can really throw them off and leave them wondering what to do since you've thrown their carefully laid plans regarding the meta of some map clear out the window.

 

​This is just wrong. What strengths does a Churchill Gun Carrier have to exploit? Some tanks are just objectively better than other tanks. Sure a good player can carry in a Leopard but that player would be better off in a Patton at least 80% of the time.

madogthefirst #89 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 07:27

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View PostSays, on Jan 11 2018 - 06:29, said:

Cool story.  Most of us are playing tanks to level through to get to tanks we want.  Not always of course, but a good portion of the time.  Last night I sucked and won.  The night before I played well and lost.  Didn't feel the need to write the odyssey about it (Homer has it covered).

Lol that last bit +1



madogthefirst #90 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 07:54

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View PostSgt__Guffy, on Jan 12 2018 - 21:59, said:

 

No, that is not good advice.

 

A player needs to identify their playstyle and try out as many vehicles as possible to establish what is right for them. Don't buy into the "Emperors New Clothes" nonsense. If "seal clubbing" tanks were the best for every player then why would anyone bother playing the others. They like a challenge? They like variety? They like to buck the trend? They want to prove they can be an all round player and play any vehicle.

 

It is horses for courses.

 

Have fun, playing your own game, not what you think other players think you should play.

 

Guffy.

Pretty much this.

 

I myself am largely crap with a T67 (probably because my playstyle and personality are about as subtle as an exploding fireworks factory) but put me in my Tiger II and I can pull more than my own share. Interestingly my interest in certain tanks goes down as they become "good" for example the Lowe.



o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7 #91 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 12:42

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View Postianizor1000, on Jan 14 2018 - 07:15, said:

 

​This is just wrong. What strengths does a Churchill Gun Carrier have to exploit? Some tanks are just objectively better than other tanks. Sure a good player can carry in a Leopard but that player would be better off in a Patton at least 80% of the time.

 

nobody can carry in a leopard. that is currently the worst tank in the game after the chinese got fixed. 

 

even those who claim they can no longer play the leopard (wonder why eh)


Edited by o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7, Jan 14 2018 - 12:42.


Elusive89 #92 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 14:21

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View Postbikebudha1, on Jan 11 2018 - 08:03, said:

Additional response to some of the comments that follow.  The term "Sealclubbing" was thrown in my general direction - a lot.  But they are all wrong, and appear not to know what sealclubbing is.  Sealclubbing is when a player who is very good at high tiers drops down to play lower tiers to 'club' newer less experienced players.  I CAN'T BE a sealclubber, just take a quick look at the stats in my tier 9 and tier 10 tanks.  You have to be a 'good' high tier player to be a sealclubber.  When I play tier 5-8, I'm playing at the right tier level for my general skill level.  And it follows, I played a lot of low tiers, got good at it.  Moved up to mid tiers, got good at it.  Hopefully, will get good at high tiers, move up.  Which is how this should work.  So many trolls will say 'you suck' out of one side of their face, then say 'sealclubber' out the other side.  It can't be both.
-
Anyways, I wish the trolls would spend more time giving extra tips as this post was intended.  Name callling is not helping a single newer player.

 

You can still be a professional poker player and not be at the high end of the poker spectrum. The term 'sealclubbing' does not immediately imply that the individual is great at it. It simply identifies people who are playing against opponents that are at a pretty severe disadvantage to them. Within that, there's still a broad range of skill to which that person is able to capitalize on their advantage.

 

Generally speaking, we are electing not to contribute to this guide, as there are many poor points of instruction that aren't constructive to people trying to learn (IS-7 yolo!).



xxBigbacon #93 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 16:08

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so.... only use meta tanks......is pretty much all this said. So if I use meta tanks I should be magically super awesome. gotcha.

 

Go cry more about the game...



cloudwalkr #94 Posted Jan 15 2018 - 23:04

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I love how budha does this.  He starts these threads, gets told over and over by people of all skill levels how he's a clubber and plays horribly at end tier and then he never comes back to that thread, but he'll start a new one up in probably a day or 2 about how tier 5 has no skill and blah blah blah.

 

It's a pretty hilarious routine for the most part.



EmperorJuliusCaesar #95 Posted Jan 18 2018 - 03:35

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View Postn00bfarmer, on Jan 11 2018 - 01:42, said:

I don't understand all the whine about "seal clubbers". I remember being new and if I saw someone doing really well, I didn't cry about it and make whine posts about seal clubbers but instead I thought, "I will have to unlock that tank and try it out as it seems to be really good". I never once thought of them seal clubbing until I saw people talking about it on forums or in game. But, that is the way the real world works too. You are either the clubber or the clubee and you have two choices: 1. Be strong and club or 2. get clubbed and cry about it.

 

Except in real life, it only helps you.  Whereas in the game, you ARE contributing to the downfall of the game.  Seal-clubbing makes MANY newer players LEAVE.  WG learned about this and tried to stop it via separating the people with less than 3k battles from those with more than 3k battles.  What did the pathetic stat padders do?  Make alt accounts to continue feeling special.  They're so selfish, they don't care about others enjoyment of the game.  It's not at all like real life, you can't ruin your own game by being strong in real life, well unless you're too stupid and can't be a team player, most companies don't like that sort anymore, they cause too many issues if they can't work well with others.



EmperorJuliusCaesar #96 Posted Jan 18 2018 - 03:37

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View PostFiremoth, on Jan 11 2018 - 02:09, said:

"how to carry games" by bikebuddha.

 

prologue: words that make me sound like i am a good player

chapter1: club seals and pretend i am a good player

epilogue: complain about MM when i am tier 8, do less than my HP of damage and dont get carried by super unicums.

 

Forum GOLD right here.  But you forgot Chapter 2.  Be a seal clubber yet talk crap to everyone about their stats when I know they can't see my average tier.



EmperorJuliusCaesar #97 Posted Jan 18 2018 - 03:45

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View PostBilderberger, on Jan 11 2018 - 11:12, said:

They should create a completely separate queue for super high low tier battle count players. If there are not enough other clubbers online, you sit in it until there are. If you have to sit in queue for hours, it might make these players play against thier own skill level in higher tiers. I know there is something that is supposed to change after a certain battle count, but it doesn't seem to work.

 

They did this, the number was 3k battles, and what did the PATHETIC seal clubbers do?  Create new accounts to abuse the new players with.  So pathetic, they know and are so selfish that they don't care they are driving away new players, yet whine about MM being messed up bc they aren't many low tier players.



SinisterMist #98 Posted Jan 18 2018 - 03:51

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View Posto7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7, on Jan 14 2018 - 05:42, said:

 

nobody can carry in a leopard. that is currently the worst tank in the game after the chinese got fixed. 

 

even those who claim they can no longer play the leopard (wonder why eh)

 

​That's not quite true. Good players can still pull 60% win rate in the Leopard. They'd just be pulling 65% in an Obj 140 or Patton.

EmperorJuliusCaesar #99 Posted Jan 18 2018 - 03:52

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View PostSlim_Shadee, on Jan 11 2018 - 12:30, said:

You did a great educational job. You taught any new players the art of fraud stats, seal clubbing and how to almost never leave the tier where you look like a champ. Of course this little bit of education exposes the fraud that relying on a overview like XVM does for deciding anything in relation to strength of competition and allies unless you take the time to dig deeper into how they acquired the stats.

 

I also have been in multiple matches with you under my other account. I am appalled that you have audacity to use the word carry in relationship to your play at any tier above III.

 

 

 

Many use the XVM where you can see their average tier played, it's very easy to spot a seal clubbing stat padder, good looking stats, but low average tier.  Same for spotting a stat padder at the higher tiers, good looking stats, but horrible win rate bc all they do is constantly stay in the back and farm damage and not help the team when it matters....so they end up with more damage, but only bc they use their team as meat shields and constantly fall back.



EmperorJuliusCaesar #100 Posted Jan 18 2018 - 04:01

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View Poststeelandpain, on Jan 11 2018 - 15:17, said:

I won't hate on you OP, there is plenty of that already, but you do come off as a bit of a gasbag.

 

Anyway, focusing on your advice, I don't like the idea of playing only the best tanks, unless stats are your primary objective. If fact, I think it sucks that it takes so much time to unlock higher tier tanks, I think it would be great if everyone could play higher tier for a few matches per day, in a tank of their choosing, it would bring more players to the game and keep players interested, because the grind is the worst thing about this game, aside from the stuff you see in every other online game, like people hating on each other for stupid reasons. Playing a variety of tanks and trying to figure them out is more fun, even if some of them are worse then others. After I started looking at my stats (I didn't even know what WN8 was for most of my WOT tenure), I actually don't enjoy the game as much, and I often have to remind myself to just enjoy the process.

 

As for everything else, it's been said many times already, and I agree with it, taking time to learn and practice will make the game more enjoyable, but it does take a considerable amount of time, which some players don't have. I think it's fine for some players to just spend a bit of time playing the game, unwinding after work, or similar, and moving on. For some, this is just a way to pass the time, and I don't see why competitive players don't get that.

 

Well, as for playing any tank you want, you have 2 options.  1. Wait for the test server and then you can play any tank you want. or 2. Create an account on the Thai server if it's not region locked.  Here, in the capital, Bangkok, you can go to any internet cafe and play any tank you want.  Which is why you see them in IS7s with zero crew skills, lol.  They are so bad.  Drives across open field(rages that tanks sucks) bad.






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