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Idea for better MM


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UNTERHUMAN #1 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 17:55

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I have noticed that most battles end in 15-5 or even lower loser side kills. This seems to tell me that battles are not balanced.

 

I have read how mm determines it battle and i think i have a solution that might better balance out the battles. Lets say for example two tiger tanks go into battle on opposing sides. The first tiger has a crew with bia and a secondary skill set. Its kill ratio is 1.45  and its damage ratio is 1.90. The second tiger has no crew skills and a kill ratio of .75 and a damage ratio of .97. It seems quite clear that the first tiger has a big advantage in crew skill and possibly player skill. Lets give that tank a combat rating of 7. The second tiger a combat rating of 4.5. Now when mm determines what tanks will oppose each other, mm can look at combat ratings to determine the effective ability to combat each other. Utilizing this as well instead of just what tank, what class and tier and as WG calls it weight.

 

Would like to know if people think this is a good idea to be looked at or if you have any ideas along similar lines.

 

.



Blackstone #2 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 18:08

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It will complicate things even more.

 

The real solution is to rollback the MM changes implemented with patch 9.19. The 9.19 patch change the 3/5/7 match up to occur more often than 5/10 or all 15 matches. That's why players are more bottom tier. If 5/10 and all 15 matches were more common, you'd be bottom tier less often.



Lesser_Spotted_Panzer #3 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 18:09

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So you are going to penalize the guy with more crew skills? What would be the point of trying to get them if you did this? It would also benefit you to drop in a new 50% crew each time you played that tank.

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree that the number of blowout games is bad. They are not much fun for the winner or loser and this needs to be addressed.



UNTERHUMAN #4 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 18:12

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no i dont want the tank with a better crew to be penalized, never said that. Im just saying that the tank with the higher combat rating should be put in battles with tanks that have similar ratings

 



_Gungrave_ #5 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 18:16

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How about we stop messing with the MM...



Awestryker #6 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 18:25

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Right now, MM favors 3/5/7 to heavily...

They should put more of a priority on 5/10, instead of 3/5/7, that will help tier 8 from being bottom tier more consistently than other tiers...

3/5/7's can still happen, but only after a period of time in cue trying to find matches for 5/10...

 

 


Edited by Awestryker, Jan 11 2018 - 18:26.


BADGED_Qc #7 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 18:29

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MM was better before they change it!

Hellsfog #8 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 18:30

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View PostBADGED_Qc, on Jan 11 2018 - 12:29, said:

MM was better before they change it!

 

Except everyone kept complaining about it before they changed it.  

Double_O7 #9 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 18:32

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I don't really think Wargaming is going to go back to an older mm. They don't do things like that. They problem with the matchmaker is that everyone gets third bottom tier often unless they are tiers 1-3 or 9-10. The mm prioritizes 3 tier battles with the 3/5/7 format. This format had good intentions from wargaming because they were trying to give the bottom tier players a chance to have an effect in battle, but this plan has backfired big time. What Wargaming didn't notice was the basic math of the equation. (If I am way off please let me know). 

 

In each battle you have 30 tanks in all. 6 top tier, 10 mid tier, and 14 bottom tier. So, when any player pushes the "Battle!" button, they have a 14/30 (46.6667%) chance of getting bottom tier, a 10/30 (33.333%) chance of getting mid tier, and a 6/30 (20%) chance of getting top tier. 

 

In my opinion, Wargaming doesn't need to do much about this to provide an adequate solution. Instead of using a 3/5/7 format for a 3 tier game, why not reverse it for a 7/5/3 format? That would give players a lot more top tier battles. Sure, players who get bottom tier will have a tougher time, but if you look at it in the sense that they will be getting bottom tier as little as players get top tier now, the equation balances out.

 

What I have noticed is that it is a rather depressing feeling to see that you are bottom tier for 10 battles in a row. This leads to players saying "SCREW IT!!!! YOLO TIME!!!!!" because they won' make any less credits yoloing than they would if they tried to play well, and get mangled by the big tanks. So, in theory, if players are to get more top tier games, there would a whole lot less yoloing, which would result in a whole lot less of the 5-15 losses and 15-5 wins, and more 14-15 games. Moral has a huge impact on how a battle turns out.



Bundespanzervolk #10 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 18:46

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View PostHellsfog, on Jan 11 2018 - 09:30, said:

 

Except everyone kept complaining about it before they changed it.  

 

​Great point.  And I'd wager the same people that complained about MM and got RNG stuffed down our throats are not even playing the game anymore and moved-on to Hello Kitty.

_Gungrave_ #11 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 18:57

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View PostHellsfog, on Jan 11 2018 - 18:30, said:

 

Except everyone kept complaining about it before they changed it.  

 

They're going to continue to complain til the MM is holding their hand giving them easy matches.

_Promote_Synergy_ #12 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 19:16

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How about we go back to the previous MM and update it so that it will balance the match by tiers. So that it wont get wonky with the enemy team having 3 extra tier 10's and your team having 3 more tier 8's.



Sir_Tomato_DroolsAlot #13 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 19:16

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it won't matter how they do MM, in the end, pitting one team of tomatoes vs a team of skilled players all the time will result in the same thing, people complaining about MM.. its not the 3/5/7 that makes MM bad, if teams were balanced so each team had the same amount of skilled / good / bad players then it would be felt as bad as it is now.. sig says it all... fix that, and u have a winner... and don't say skilled based, that is the dumbest idea ever.. I am talking balanced.

HOTA_CHATON #14 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 19:24

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MM should be based on each individual tank, not it's class.  Judging by class, like they are doing, tends to put some tanks, tds, spgs, etc into an un-enviable position each and every match.  Take the B2 and the DW2, neither of them have ever really capable of being called heavies.  Treat them as a different class or move them down to Tier 3 and shake things ups there.  I personally think that all vehicles should have a 1 tier cap as if all tanks are handicapped and some of them really and truly are so lets treat them right.

Hellsfog #15 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 19:32

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View PostSir_Tomato_DroolsAlot, on Jan 11 2018 - 13:16, said:

it won't matter how they do MM, in the end, pitting one team of tomatoes vs a team of skilled players all the time will result in the same thing, people complaining about MM.. its not the 3/5/7 that makes MM bad, if teams were balanced so each team had the same amount of skilled / good / bad players then it would be felt as bad as it is now.. sig says it all... fix that, and u have a winner... and don't say skilled based, that is the dumbest idea ever.. I am talking balanced.

 

Except your concept has some issues which you don't really every address such as platoons, maps, vehicle class, etc. 

 

View PostHOTA_CHATON, on Jan 11 2018 - 13:24, said:

MM should be based on each individual tank, not it's class.  Judging by class, like they are doing, tends to put some tanks, tds, spgs, etc into an un-enviable position each and every match.  Take the B2 and the DW2, neither of them have ever really capable of being called heavies.  Treat them as a different class or move them down to Tier 3 and shake things ups there.  I personally think that all vehicles should have a 1 tier cap as if all tanks are handicapped and some of them really and truly are so lets treat them right.

 

The DW2, like all tier 4 heavy tanks, currently gets sheltered MM and the B2 only sees tier 4 at most. 

https://thedailybounce.net/2017/05/28/world-of-tanks-matchmaker-tank-distribution-update-9-18/

 



moogleslam #16 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 19:38

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You can create two completely equal teams in terms of tanks and skill, and the majority of matches will still predominantly end in 15-6 etc outcomes due to the snowball effect.

Gnarly #17 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 21:43

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The main problem with 3/5/7 is that you get battle after battle of bottom tier which is depressing. 

An easy fix is to set a flag/switch for a player/platoon every time they get bottom tier.  

If flag = true

   don't assign player bottom tier

   set flag false

else

   put player in any battle

   if player assigned bottom tier

      set flag true

  end if

end if

 

Voila!! Frustration ended without radical changes to MM structure....

 



Hellsfog #18 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 22:08

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View PostGnarly, on Jan 11 2018 - 15:43, said:

The main problem with 3/5/7 is that you get battle after battle of bottom tier which is depressing. 

An easy fix is to set a flag/switch for a player/platoon every time they get bottom tier.  

If flag = true

   don't assign player bottom tier

   set flag false

else

   put player in any battle

   if player assigned bottom tier

      set flag true

  end if

end if

 

Voila!! Frustration ended without radical changes to MM structure....

 

 

The best cure for the current MM is to go back to +/-4 for a few months and let players remember what the frustration being the only tier 6 tank in a tier 8 to 10 game was like.  Let the horde of new Type 59's feed on tier 5 again.  After a few months 3/5/7 with a +/- 2 spread won't seem bad at all. 

Duster47 #19 Posted Jan 11 2018 - 22:34

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Compared to the rest of you, I am a "new" player with barely 5000 battles.

I certainly feel like I do more, and blown up less quickly, in battles at all-15 or 5/10 ratio.  I do know in 3/5/7 matches playing mostly Tier 5 and 6, that damaging top tier 7 or 8 can be really frustrating.  For example, a few days ago in my Tier VI UK-Churchill w/ 17-pound gun, took 16 shots, 14 hits with only one hit causing damage against opposing heavies.  Tried AP, APDS, and HE all without joy.  Was really annoying being repeatedly told, "That one bounced!"  Grrr.... :(

 

What if there was an option to choose to be in 3/5/7 or 5/10-15?

 

What if there was an option for fighting only "real" tanks that had more than 2 built and were actually used in combat against tanks that were of same era?  No more of this silly (historically speaking) battles with 1943 tanks facing off against Korean War tanks.



Son_of_the_South #20 Posted Jan 12 2018 - 02:15

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View Post_Gungrave_, on Jan 11 2018 - 12:16, said:

How about we stop messing with the MM...

 

One never stops the fight against wrong. One continues on until wrong is fixed or one dies. As you stand behind your convictions so must those who want to see a ever broken MM system made right/whole.




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