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The MYTH of more skilled players at higher tiers on the NA server


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LpBronco #61 Posted Jan 13 2018 - 16:22

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I would but you aren't typically this much of a "mule".

NeatoMan #62 Posted Jan 13 2018 - 18:12

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View PostUrabouttudie, on Jan 13 2018 - 10:00, said:

 

3 pages and counting...watch this...

 

 

Well...anyone can create a spreadsheet and enter fictitious data that reflects the information they want it to...and you just expect everyone to simply accept your data as factual.

 

I trust your data like I trust Gallup Polls...If you have nothing more than petty insults and your potentially nefarious data to continue a discussion with then I guess I've trolled all there is to troll out of you Neatoman.

 

perhaps YOU should put ME on ignore 

 

;)

I expect anyone to be able to do what any good scientist would do when their data is questioned; verify it.  I have repeatedly challenged you to verify my data on your own, but you have made it perfectly clear that you are simply too lazy, too stupid, or too much of a wuss to do it.

 

I suspect it's too stupid, because you can't even enter into a discussion about what steps it would require to verify it, let alone discuss how data in general is relevant to the questions you pose.  You still have yet to even say what you consider to be a measure of skill.   You've come up with this idea that you don't even know how to articulate properly.   Even if we posted the right data, you'd have no clue what it means.

 

It's as I said earlier; the argument of the idiot is becoming more and more acceptable "If I can't understand it then it must be wrong", and what's even worse it continues to "I'll just substitute whatever I want as an explanation, and it will be right because in my heart I believe it to be so".



ThePigSheFlies #63 Posted Jan 13 2018 - 18:34

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View PostUrabouttudie, on Jan 13 2018 - 10:00, said:

 

I trust your data like I trust Gallup Polls...

 

finally you admit to not having a single shred of statistical modelling knowledge, or experience.

 

and we're officially done here



spud_tuber #64 Posted Jan 13 2018 - 18:36

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View PostUrabouttudie, on Jan 13 2018 - 09:00, said:

 

3 pages and counting...watch this...

 

 

Well...anyone can create a spreadsheet and enter fictitious data that reflects the information they want it to...and you just expect everyone to simply accept your data as factual.

 

I trust your data like I trust Gallup Polls...If you have nothing more than petty insults and your potentially nefarious data to continue a discussion with then I guess I've trolled all there is to troll out of you Neatoman.

 

perhaps YOU should put ME on ignore 

 

;)

Yes, anyone could enter whatever they wanted into a spreadsheet.

 

NeatoMan, however, enters it in a MS Access DB..

 

On a more serious note, neato has in the past, when starting threads to present his data, offered to present evidence of the veracity of his data, usually in the form of loading screen pics and/or replays, and always delivered when tested.

 

Of course, he could have made this data up counting on his reputation to help it seem legit, but what would he gain from doing that?

 

But, I'm not telling you that you should or shouldn't take his data at face value.  For one thing, it's older data which may not be relevant anymore, in part due to the MM changes.  It wouldn't be that hard for you to replicate his research, however, if you wished to.



Urabouttudie #65 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 14:20

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View PostNeatoMan, on Jan 13 2018 - 09:12, said:

I expect anyone to be able to do what any good scientist would do when their data is questioned; verify it.  I have repeatedly challenged you to verify my data on your own, but you have made it perfectly clear that you are simply too lazy, too stupid, or too much of a wuss to do it.

 

I suspect it's too stupid, because you can't even enter into a discussion about what steps it would require to verify it, let alone discuss how data in general is relevant to the questions you pose.  You still have yet to even say what you consider to be a measure of skill.   You've come up with this idea that you don't even know how to articulate properly.   Even if we posted the right data, you'd have no clue what it means.

 

It's as I said earlier; the argument of the idiot is becoming more and more acceptable "If I can't understand it then it must be wrong", and what's even worse it continues to "I'll just substitute whatever I want as an explanation, and it will be right because in my heart I believe it to be so".

 

ROFL I triggered it!! I can actually FEEL the spittle hitting the screen as I read the words!

 

 

 



Urabouttudie #66 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 14:21

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View PostThePigSheFlies, on Jan 13 2018 - 09:34, said:

 

finally you admit to not having a single shred of statistical modelling knowledge, or experience.

 

and we're officially done here

 

ROFL...sure...tell you I just trolled the hell out of you and suddenly "now we're done here"

 

Still...It was fun though!

 

LOL



Urabouttudie #67 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 14:22

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View Postspud_tuber, on Jan 13 2018 - 09:36, said:

Yes, anyone could enter whatever they wanted into a spreadsheet.

 

NeatoMan, however, enters it in a MS Access DB..

 

On a more serious note, neato has in the past, when starting threads to present his data, offered to present evidence of the veracity of his data, usually in the form of loading screen pics and/or replays, and always delivered when tested.

 

Of course, he could have made this data up counting on his reputation to help it seem legit, but what would he gain from doing that?

 

But, I'm not telling you that you should or shouldn't take his data at face value.  For one thing, it's older data which may not be relevant anymore, in part due to the MM changes.  It wouldn't be that hard for you to replicate his research, however, if you wished to.

 

I'ma get right on that Chief!

Urabouttudie #68 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 14:23

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View PostLpBronco, on Jan 13 2018 - 07:22, said:

I would but you aren't typically this much of a "mule".

 

Sometimes the forums get rather dull what with all the "waa waa wa" and the "you suck" and the "no you do!"

 

It's like...players in a video game are all...like...full of themselves!



Urabouttudie #69 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 14:25

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View PostKliphie, on Jan 12 2018 - 06:36, said:

How do you "prove" an amorphous concept like "better?"

 

Kliphie here wins the "I Get It!" award for most insightful post!

 

Thanks for playing!



Urabouttudie #70 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 14:31

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View PostNeatoMan, on Jan 12 2018 - 07:02, said:

Then you need to be more clear of what your requirements for "skilled" are?   better win rates? better PR ratings? better WN8?

 

What about my statistics do you not believe?  I have posted my database and can make it available again if you don't want to look for it.  I have load-in screenshots of all my battles showing the player stats and battle tier displayed by XVM.   You can pick any game in my database at random and I can give you the screenshot for verification (except from patches ~9.13-9.15 that got lost when my old PC died).   I can provide proof for everything in those charts and then some.  You will never win any argument calling that data fabricated or made up.   Want to try?  You are welcome to discuss my data gathering methods anytime.

 

As far as relevance to what you asked, can you explain why 30000 player win rates worth of data is not enough?  Do you honestly believe that I got some kind of special MM whereby only I get better players in my battles as I progressed up the tiers and you did not?  Do you think 30000 players is not a good enough cross section of the player base?  Do you think that everyone gets such unique MM that no player statistics are comparable? 

 

Your statistics knowledge is weak.   It's not my fault that you are either too lazy, or too incompetent to gather the necessary information to figure this out all by yourself.    I guarantee you will come up with similar results if you ever bothered to really look.  I challenge anybody to try.

 

this one is my favorite!

 

It's like you're offended by my insulting the integrity of your statistical data but at the same time you apparently think I am too stupid to understand it anyways...

 

Priceless!



Elusive89 #71 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 14:52

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View PostUrabouttudie, on Jan 14 2018 - 13:31, said:

 

this one is my favorite!

 

It's like you're offended by my insulting the integrity of your statistical data but at the same time you apparently think I am too stupid to understand it anyways...

 

Priceless!

 

Feel free to provide ANYTHING relevant to discredit what he has posted.

NeatoMan #72 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 15:13

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View PostUrabouttudie, on Jan 14 2018 - 08:31, said:

this one is my favorite!

 

It's like you're offended by my insulting the integrity of your statistical data but at the same time you apparently think I am too stupid to understand it anyways...

 

Priceless!

Any idiot can type "false data" on the keyboard,  it doesn't mean they know what they are talking about.   You have yet to point out what part of the data indicates it's false, or what's anomalous about it.   You can't be specific because you don't know how to formulate a cogent argument.  You don't even know what steps it would take to verify the data. 



spud_tuber #73 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 17:32

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View PostUrabouttudie, on Jan 14 2018 - 07:31, said:

 

this one is my favorite!

 

It's like you're offended by my insulting the integrity of your statistical data but and at the same time you apparently think I am too stupid to understand it anyways...

 

Priceless!

Funny, that.  I read it as I corrected above, with an additional implied undertone that the reason you attacked the integrity of the data was because you couldn't understand it.

 

Now, personally, I've not decided if the above is correct, or if you're a troll.



spud_tuber #74 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 17:34

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View PostUrabouttudie, on Jan 14 2018 - 07:25, said:

 

Kliphie here wins the "I Get It!" award for most insightful post!

 

Thanks for playing!

You define better in terms of one or more measurable stats, and then start recording data.  But again, either you're a troll or unable to understand any of this. 

 

Edit: or possibly both.

 

It is past time this thread was moved to the garbage bin where it belongs.



NeatoMan #75 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 18:59

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How about this.  Go to noobmeter's "tank stats"  and look at the column labelled "Player win rate".  It shows the average win rate of the players who played that particular tank on the server for that particular period.  Although it's old data, the trends are clear.  Player win rates are consistently highest among the tier 10 tanks

 

http://www.noobmeter.com/tankStats/na

 

HTs       Player WR range

tier 10:   55% to 59%

tier 8:    52% to 56%

tier 6:    52% to 54%

 

MTs       Player WR range

tier 10:   56% to 62%

tier 8:    52% to 56%

tier 6:    52% to 55%

 

TDs       Player WR range

tier 10:   54% to 56%

tier 8:    52% to 54%

tier 6:    52% to 54%

 

We could go into more detail and weight each tank by the number of battles for each tank, to find specific player averages at each tier, but the trend seems pretty clear even before doing that.



NeatoMan #76 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 20:26

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OK, I got the player win rate averages from the above noobmeter link.  That's over 80 million battles tallied in that data

 

Average player win rate per tier

tier 10 = 55.1%

tier 9  = 53.6%

tier 8  = 53.5%

tier 7  = 53.0%

tier 6  = 53.0%

tier 5  = 52.5%

 

nope, players aren't better in the higher tiers. :rolleyes:



Kliphie #77 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 20:30

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View PostNeatoMan, on Jan 14 2018 - 13:26, said:

OK, I got the player win rate averages from the above noobmeter link.  That's over 80 million battles tallied in that data

 

Average player win rate per tier

tier 10 = 55.1%

tier 9  = 53.6%

tier 8  = 53.5%

tier 7  = 53.0%

tier 6  = 53.0%

tier 5  = 52.5%

 

nope, players aren't better in the higher tiers. :rolleyes:

 

How can those win rates by tier anything other than 50/50 minus draws?  

spud_tuber #78 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 20:45

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View PostKliphie, on Jan 14 2018 - 13:30, said:

 

How can those win rates by tier anything other than 50/50 minus draws?  

Because that's overall win rate of players playing those tiers, not the win by tier of players playing those tiers.



NeatoMan #79 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 21:00

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nm double post

Edited by NeatoMan, Jan 14 2018 - 21:05.


NeatoMan #80 Posted Jan 14 2018 - 21:05

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View PostKliphie, on Jan 14 2018 - 14:30, said:

How can those win rates by tier anything other than 50/50 minus draws?  

As spud said it's not the win rates achieved in those battles, but the win rates of players participating in each battle.

 

So for instance if a 60% player plays 100 battles at tier 10 in that time, and a 45% only plays 10 battles at tier 10, then the average player win rate will be skewed higher because the 60% player is present in more tier 10 battles than the tomato.






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