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Arty is "totally" fair and balanced

arty balanced dynamic pigs arty is balanced promote dynamic gameplay

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WhineMaker #21 Posted Jan 28 2018 - 10:37

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View Postpanzer716, on Jan 28 2018 - 01:32, said:

 

Tell me where you can get spotted on Prokhorovka or Fiery Salient and not be in the open?

 

Does Himmelsdorf, Paris or Karkov answer your question. Some maps favor heavies, some favor lights, most favor mediums, some favor TD's and those you mentioned favor arty. 

 

My money's on the next thread you make, will be to remove the open maps...

 

Maybe I should get a job as a psychic... :B



panzer716 #22 Posted Jan 28 2018 - 10:45

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View PostWhineMaker, on Jan 28 2018 - 04:37, said:

 

Does Himmelsdorf, Paris or Karkov answer your question. Some maps favor heavies, some favor lights, most favor mediums, some favor TD's and those you mentioned favor arty. 

 

My money's on the next thread you make, will be to remove the open maps...

 

Maybe I should get a job as a psychic... :B

 

On the contrary. I play lights mostly, so open maps are my favorite. I wouldn't quit your day job just yet to be a psychic... The maps I mentioned can be played by all classes great IF arty isn't present. Heavies can go to the top of the hill on Malinovka and brawl just fine if arty isn't raining death upon them while there is nothing they can do. Similarly, on Fiery Salient heavies are comfortable going on the mid ridge and brawling there IF arty isn't there to pelt them and make them fall back and camp in the bushes. Even in the city maps I can make my lights play pretty well. It isn't ideal, but I can make it work. All the maps can be useful for all the classes as long as there is no arty in the match. I can't tell you how many games I've been in where someone says "no arty" and people get happy and those are some of the best game I have regardless of tank class and some of the funnest too. It's a flawed mechanic, but some people just can't see it because they like feeling the power of clicking helpless tanks. I've stated sound and valid points answering your questions and you have just responded to my questions with more questions.

Edited by panzer716, Jan 28 2018 - 10:47.


Omega_Weapon #23 Posted Jan 28 2018 - 10:47

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View Postpanzer716, on Jan 28 2018 - 04:32, said:

 

Tell me where you can get spotted on Prokhorovka or Fiery Salient and not be in the open? Malinovka too now that I think about it.

 

​On Prokhorovka/ Fiery Salient, there are several hills and low areas that offer partial protection from arty (it can still hit you, but is less likely to). Staying behind the train cars or in the village can also offer some protection, but admittedly, nowhere on that map is completely arty safe. That is simply a map where you do not want to be spotted until the situation is advantageous and the risk of being spotted is worth it. Not every map has to be played "dynamically". Sometimes patient strategy is the better way. As for Malinovka, there are many places which again offer some protection, but the main defense from arty on the more open maps is to play the vision game and avoid being spotted. If you do get spotted, be as dynamic as possible to make yourself a more difficult target. I love fooling arty players and hearing their shells miss.

panzer716 #24 Posted Jan 28 2018 - 10:51

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View PostOmega_Weapon, on Jan 28 2018 - 04:47, said:

 

​On Prokhorovka/ Fiery Salient, there are several hills and low areas that offer partial protection from arty (it can still hit you, but is less likely to). Staying behind the train cars or in the village can also offer some protection, but admittedly, nowhere on that map is completely arty safe. That is simply a map where you do not want to be spotted until the situation is advantageous and the risk of being spotted is worth it. Not every map has to be played "dynamically". Sometimes patient strategy is the better way. As for Malinovka, there are many places which again offer some protection, but the main defense from arty on the more open maps is to play the vision game and avoid being spotted. If you do get spotted, be as dynamic as possible to make yourself a more difficult target. I love fooling arty players and hearing their shells miss.

 

Good points. I guess that is my problem though is that in some tanks, you just can't stay unspotted on those maps, especially on Prok with a T-100 LT running the mid or something similar. It just seems like arty is too strong on those maps in particular.

Omega_Weapon #25 Posted Jan 28 2018 - 11:04

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View Postpanzer716, on Jan 28 2018 - 04:51, said:

 

Good points. I guess that is my problem though is that in some tanks, you just can't stay unspotted on those maps, especially on Prok with a T-100 LT running the mid or something similar. It just seems like arty is too strong on those maps in particular.

 

​Scouts have speed and maneuverability though. Arty shells travel very slowly, so they need to lead you quite a bit in order to score a hit. Except for RNG and sheer luck factors, the arty will only hit you if you are predictable. The arty has to fire where he thinks you will be 3 to 5 seconds in the future. A scout can move pretty far in 5 seconds. The bigger arty can still cause splash damage from a close miss, but dead on hits should be rare occurrences.

panzer716 #26 Posted Jan 28 2018 - 11:11

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View PostOmega_Weapon, on Jan 28 2018 - 05:04, said:

 

​Scouts have speed and maneuverability though. Arty shells travel very slowly, so they need to lead you quite a bit in order to score a hit. Except for RNG and sheer luck factors, the arty will only hit you if you are predictable. The arty has to fire where he thinks you will be 3 to 5 seconds in the future. A scout can move pretty far in 5 seconds. The bigger arty can still cause splash damage from a close miss, but dead on hits should be rare occurrences.

 

That is one of the big problems. And Honestly, scouts are the class I have the least trouble with, because I know these things. But it's the RNG, sometimes you still get hit for 500+ dmg in your tier 8/9 scouts and that is pretty much half you HP. The problems more happen in the other classes that are less maneuverable. There isn't much you can do in a tank that goes 35 kph and can't turn well if you get spotted and the only solution to not get spotted is to camp behind cover. That's the only way to ensure you won't get caught out in the open, and that isn't a good thing to promote.



Zanarkand_C #27 Posted Jan 28 2018 - 11:20

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How do you even play with a mod just filling up your screen real estate with useless information like that.

g4143 #28 Posted Jan 28 2018 - 11:23

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View PostOmega_Weapon, on Jan 28 2018 - 10:32, said:

 

​Arty is actually pretty underpowered....

 

Pretty underpowered! Arty generally has the lowest scores in all the tank features. Just pull up the stats of arty vehicles and compare that with the same tier tanks.



panzer716 #29 Posted Jan 28 2018 - 11:30

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View PostZanarkand_C, on Jan 28 2018 - 05:20, said:

How do you even play with a mod just filling up your screen real estate with useless information like that.

 

All the mod does is make each tank have a color... I'm not really sure what you mean by the mod filling up my screen with useless information. The tank names would be there anyways, they are just colorful now. Everything else is a in game feature besides obviously the black boxes which I added to keep from naming and shaming.

panzer716 #30 Posted Jan 28 2018 - 11:34

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View Postg4143, on Jan 28 2018 - 05:23, said:

 

Pretty underpowered! Arty generally has the lowest scores in all the tank features. Just pull up the stats of arty vehicles and compare that with the same tier tanks.

 

One of these things is not like the other, which one is different, do you know...  https://youtu.be/ueZ6tvqhk8U?t=19s

 

Arty can't be compared to other tanks of the same tier because they don't act or perform like other tanks do. They are only similar to themselves and the mechanics, gameplay, and stats are all different compared to all the other classes. They aren't even comparable.


Edited by panzer716, Jan 28 2018 - 11:36.


g4143 #31 Posted Jan 28 2018 - 11:53

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View Postpanzer716, on Jan 28 2018 - 11:34, said:

 

One of these things is not like the other, which one is different, do you know...  https://youtu.be/ueZ6tvqhk8U?t=19s

 

Arty can't be compared to other tanks of the same tier because they don't act or perform like other tanks do. They are only similar to themselves and the mechanics, gameplay, and stats are all different compared to all the other classes. They aren't even comparable.

 

So you would be OK with giving arty vehicles better aim time and better reload time and better amour and better ability to defend itself and better view range and better mobility and better traverse speeds and better gun handling in shotgun mode etc because they aren't like the other vehicles so these numbers are meaningless? 

Edited by g4143, Jan 28 2018 - 11:54.


panzer716 #32 Posted Jan 28 2018 - 11:59

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View Postg4143, on Jan 28 2018 - 05:53, said:

 

So you would be OK with giving arty vehicles better aim time and better reload time and better amour and better ability to defend itself and better view range and better mobility and better traverse speeds and better gun handling in shotgun mode etc because they aren't like the other vehicles so these numbers are meaningless? 

 

No, I'd be ok with removing it because it is too unlike all the other classes. It doesn't make sense within the arcade style of shooting this game has with every other class.

GeorgePreddy #33 Posted Jan 28 2018 - 13:04

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When will players like OP ever learn that they must CAMP HARDER when there is arty in their battles.

 

Trying to go against this wisdom only results in heartache from feeding the cancer your health and even your life.

 

So... camping harder = not rewarding cancer = less cancer in the long run.



Sgt_Goustos #34 Posted Jan 28 2018 - 13:18

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I think that being cautious of an evil swooping down from above to touch your butt makes the game more interesting for sure. Just another aspect of the game

g4143 #35 Posted Jan 28 2018 - 13:21

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View Postpanzer716, on Jan 28 2018 - 11:59, said:

 

No, I'd be ok with removing it because it is too unlike all the other classes. It doesn't make sense within the arcade style of shooting this game has with every other class.

 

Let's be honest here. The real reason is

 



Cognitive_Dissonance #36 Posted Jan 28 2018 - 14:16

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It is dynamic. It caters to all kinds of dynamism. Game mechanic is built to cater to all walks. Those who thrive on the ebb and flow of battle, the nuances of flanking, armor angling, force multipliers, terrain following, risky pushes and teamwork. It also is dynamic enough to hold the attention of those who like to drive 100 meters or less, sit, wait for reticle to shrink, click, dip hand in bowl of cheetos.

 

So you see, it is a very dynamic game.



_Katyusha___ #37 Posted Jan 28 2018 - 14:24

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I cant see the problem here:

 

-Is not the USA arty the more powerful in game?

 

-It took less than half the HP, while in the past could be a 1 shot kill

 

-The target tank is a fantasy autoloader. Fantasy autoloaders deserve to be 1 shot killed.



Red_Ensign #38 Posted Jan 28 2018 - 14:26

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yes a high tier arty hits that hard.  are you pointing that out because nothing else at that tier does?  no?  what's your point then.  besides "waaaaaaaah" I mean.

mohawkdriver #39 Posted Jan 28 2018 - 15:45

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I tend to play more dramatically when there's NO arty in the game.

riff_ #40 Posted Jan 28 2018 - 16:10

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Arty is "totally" fair and balanced

 

It is fair because arty can effect both teams. 

I have no idea if it is balanced.

It may (I believe so) have a negative effect on game play.


Edited by riff_, Jan 28 2018 - 20:43.





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