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Equipment Reports from the ETO, Aug 1945


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Blackhorse_One_ #21 Posted Feb 25 2018 - 04:38

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View Poststalkervision, on Feb 24 2018 - 20:29, said:

I believe it means fording ability.

 

Something more akin to "ability to traverse soft ground without sinking-in so deep that it requires one or more recovery-vehicles to pull you out of that S-hole."

(With a nod to Donald Trump)

 

Lower weight and wider track reduces ground pressure by a significant factor.
 

IIRC, the average ground pressure for a French soldier of the Napoleonic Age was about 3.1 pounds per square inch, with full kit.

 

Can't remember where I saw that ...


Edited by Blackhorse_One_, Feb 25 2018 - 04:45.


RLBell #22 Posted Feb 25 2018 - 05:02

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View Poststalkervision, on Feb 24 2018 - 18:29, said:

 

I believe it means fording ability.

 

If I recall correctly, flotation is the ability to not sink into the ground.  In the Netherlands, farming with horses in the early spring required fitting the horses with wooden bog shoes that enlarged the area covered by each hoof and reducing their ground pressure.  Bog shoes could not be permanently fitted to the horses, as a stabled horse would spend a lot of time banging the bog shoes against gate posts and the walls of its stall, so they would be put in place, in the barnyard, before going to the fields and removed after the work was done for the day, until the ground was firm enough to no longer need the bog shoes.  Taking the team of horses into the fields, before the ground had firmed up, could see the horses sink to their bellies.

 

Soggy farmers' fields have swallowed all manner of mobile equipment that lacked sufficient flotation. 

 

The UK Scorpion reconnaissance tank has more flotation than most infantrymen, which was used to good effect in the Falkland Islands War, as the Argentine soldiers were taken completely by surprise when tanks breached their perimeter through an 'impassable' swamp.

 

When I read the book "Vietnam Tracks", I saw a photo of a heavy lift helicopter recovering an M113 that had sunk almost to its roof in soft ground, but I cannot remember if that was because there was not a recovery vehicle with the needed flotation to pull out a sunken M113 or that heavy lift helicopters could show up with less delay, making them the first choice for recovering light vehicles bogged down in the middle of nowhere.



stalkervision #23 Posted Feb 25 2018 - 05:05

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View PostBlackhorse_One_, on Feb 24 2018 - 22:38, said:

 

Something more akin to "ability to traverse soft ground without sinking-in so deep that it requires one or more recovery-vehicles to pull you out of that S-hole."

(With a nod to Donald Trump)

 

Lower weight and wider track reduces ground pressure by a significant factor.
 

IIRC, the average ground pressure for a French soldier of the Napoleonic Age was about 3.1 pounds per square inch, with full kit.

 

Can't remember where I saw that ...

 

Your absolutely correct. Nice answer. I was joking with that reply and just wanted to see if anyone caught it it. :-P 



Sister_Mary_Gearchange #24 Posted Mar 28 2018 - 07:58

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View PostRLBell, on Feb 25 2018 - 05:02, said:

The UK Scorpion reconnaissance tank has more flotation than most infantrymen, which was used to good effect in the Falkland Islands War, as the Argentine soldiers were taken completely by surprise when tanks breached their perimeter through an 'impassable' swamp.

 

Yup.  Lower ground pressure than a human.  We used it to good effect on exercise in Europe - the Germans (when we were exercising against them) learnt to expect it.  The Americans never seemed to learn and we would surprise them every time.

 

And when I was still in the NZ Army and just after we got Scorpions we would tell visiting American M113 units to follow us back to barracks from the exercise area and then deliberately take them through ground we knew they would bog in.  They would invariably just give up on trying to recover 1 or more of the vehicles.  We would go out and recover it after the exercise and strip them for parts.  Such was life in the NZ Army when the budget for armour spares for our own M113's was zero $ per year.  The Australians used to do the same thing to the Americans when they were exercising with them up in the NT and northern QLD jungle/swamp areas.

 

 



Sister_Mary_Gearchange #25 Posted Mar 28 2018 - 08:09

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View PostThe_Chieftain, on Feb 16 2018 - 23:01, said:

On 15 August of 1945, a survey was sent from the European Theater of just how well various pieces of equipment were received, what their problems were, and so on. 

 

 

There's a NZ Army report from 1946 on basically the same thing that covered the NZ Division in Italy.

 

One of the odder things they discovered was that the division was massively over strength (no one had noticed, nor could they work out how they hadn't noticed) when TOE was ~15,000 and actual strength turned out to be a bit over 21,000.  They also discovered that the division had somehow "acquired" a total of ~18,000 vehicles (of all types, including over 900 motorcycles and scooters) by the time it reached Trieste.  That raised eyebrows because the NZ Division was supposed to be an infantry division.  Almost everything was dumped just outside Trieste harbour or given to the Yugoslavs when the division eventually went home.  The only things kept & shipped back to NZ were personal/infantry weapons and radios.


Edited by Sister_Mary_Gearchange, Mar 28 2018 - 08:09.





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