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Tier 8-10 = Frustrating


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EdibleEmpire #61 Posted Mar 26 2018 - 03:59

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I don't know... I only really struggle to make money at tier 10.

 

Tier 8 and 9 without premium time, it's possible to make money for a more average player. You just can't spam premium and you need to do respectable and consistent amounts of damage.

 

I agree that I hate this system that kind of shuts off end-game content from 90% of the playerbase unless they're willing to consistently open their wallet... and even then they can't just play tier 10 indefinitely with premium time. Think about that. They pay a 'subscription' and they can't even play tier 10 constantly unless they're 'good' (top 10% at least, probably smaller % than that) players.



Chalybos #62 Posted Mar 26 2018 - 21:33

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View PostGollumsFish, on Mar 23 2018 - 00:04, said:

Look, I'm a free-to-player. I've been one for years and years now.

 

And no - you DON'T earn enough free XP to just naturally unlock everything on that Tier 8 or 9 vehicle you just bought. I don't even earn enough to do that at Tiers 6 and 7. I'm pretty sure that Tier 8 and 9 are a bit more grindy.

 

Maybe if you play 4 hours every single day...

 

View PostChalybos, on Mar 23 2018 - 12:55, said:

 

I have to disagree, it doesn't take 4 hours every day.  The more XP you earn, the more free XP you earn; there's a direct correlation between the two.  It does take you hitting and penning more often than not, though.  Tier 9?  Yeah, the modules take time to unlock.  Tier 6?  Not so much.  Especially if you're concentrating on just a couple of nations, since a lot of the components cross over across tank types.  

 

 

View PostGollumsFish, on Mar 24 2018 - 00:32, said:

Well, that's really moving the goals posts a bit. You're kind of making the argument that the minority of players who have a win rate above 52% should be exempted from the "pay to have a non-sucky gameplay experience" but that everyone else should just be stuck with that.

 

How does that invalidate my argument that WG is making a blatant cash grab via pay-to-win and pay-to-maintain-sanity tactics?

 

The idea that sucky players should be incentivized into pay-to-win or pay-to-not-put-up-with-bad-gameplay models is... not an argument I hear a lot from anyone actually.

 

How does my comment move the goalposts?  Is it impossible to unlock tier 9 vehicles without premium time?  No, I have a friend who did just that.  It took him longer, but he did it, 2 tier 9's after about 12,000 battles.  And I never said you could unlock them with free XP, just that you make more free XP as you make more XP.

The plain and simple fact that I stated was that if you hit the target and pen it, you will be rewarded with XP and credits.  If you hit the target but don't pen it, you lose money.  If you miss the target, you lose money.  That has nothing to do with any sort of exemption based on win rate, that's a simple cost vs. reward recipe that's pretty standard in any game that provides experience points.  Contribute more, get more.  

And your contention that it's a cash grab via pay-to-win has been debunked by others repeatedly, so you can feel free to look up those other debates at your leisure if my explanation doesn't suffice.  I can kill premium vehicles just as easily as I can kill non-premium vehicles.  I'm not a purple - hell, I ain't even a blue, so what gives me the ability to do so?  I don't rush my shots.  I try to target specific areas on enemy tanks, and don't fire if the in-game pen indicator is giving me the red "you ain't gonna pen that spot" color.  I don't use auto-aim in game, because it just looks to hit the target, not necessarily the best spot on the target.

That equates to more income per shot, on non-premium premium shells fired by non-premium vehicles.  And it also equates to more XP earned per shot.

I don't try to trade shots with someone unless I have a bigger gun or way better reload speed.  I don't use my repair kit for stupid fixes (you all know you've spec'ed a tanker after you've died and seen them repair their optics as soon as they got hit, and had nothing for when their rack or engine got hit), but save it until just before I fire to decrease the chance of my gun being taken out again and leaving me defenseless.  I don't use my medkits until just before I take a shot, for the same reason as the repair kits.  

What do any of those things have to do with skill?  Or win rate?  

 

Shots that aren't hitting aren't penning.  Every missed shot is a loss in credits and zero XP.  Every hit shot that doesn't pen is a loss in credits and zero XP.  The only thing that's an incentive in that model is to either play better or stay in lower tiers where the cost of playing a match badly simply doesn't cost you as much.  That's not pay to win.  That's just life. 

If the game were actually pay to win, you wouldn't see so many players driving around premium tanks with 42% win rates and 1200 PRs. 

Letting players who roll out a tier 10 tank into a field and get wiped in 45 seconds because they have no clue what they're doing, that actually hurts the players on that team who actually spent time learning the game, grinding their crews to get 3, 4, 5 skills and perks, and now they're down a top tier tank because you can actually just roll your tank 5 feet once the match starts, go watch a movie, still get XP at the end of the match, and fail your way to the top ... that's not an argument that I hear anyone in favor of.  Ever.  And yet I get to see players like that every other tier 10 match.

 

Look, you can play the game and work at getting better at it, or you can play the game and not work at getting better at it, your call.  Now me, I prefer making credits and XP, and I like winning more than I like losing.  But hey, you do you, it's your account, and your free time.

 

 



scHnuuudle_bop #63 Posted Mar 31 2018 - 02:51

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find a couple vehicles you both enjoy and have success with. Use them, and your frustration will evaporate. THe more fun you have with them, the more likely you are to actively improve. 

 

If you look at most peoples activity. The game seems to have a  sweet spot, tiers 5 to 7.  

Tier 9 and 10 really just soak up credits and the game play and team composition is no different than tier 5 games anyway.



SimoVodopan #64 Posted Apr 04 2018 - 18:08

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View PostZapp__Brannigan, on Mar 14 2018 - 23:47, said:

Honestly, at your stats and battles played, you simply are not ready for tier 8+. I'm guessing you are playing your Tiger 2 as a brawling tank because its a heavy which is horrifically wrong. The Panther 8.8 and Tigers play a lot alike, you are support tanks, hang back and use the insane German accuracy to your advantage. You can not believe in gold rounds all you want, but there are times when you WILL need some to swing the battle in your teams favor (btw frontal weakspots on tier 8+ are generally viewports and cupolas and lower plates, you wont penetrate much else) German armor in specific isnt really built (the Maus line aside) to be front line brawlers, so naturally people with higher tier tanks then you are going to shred your armor. If you are tracking people often, you need to aim a bit higher for the weaker sideplates instead of just doing track damage.... try uploading a few videos and I can give you more specific pointers. 

 

What this guy said, anyone that tells you to brawl in a German heavy has no idea what they're talking about... and probably haven't even played a German heavy before. A main problem is with the labels here: "Oh because it's a heavy, it's gotta brawl!" even in real life, heavy German armor stood back and shot at things from a distance because they had the big guns for it. So, play these like a support-sniper and you'll be fine and just dis-regard any comments you get from people saying such stuff like: "You're in a heavy, brawl damnit brawl!" they're ignorant. Just because it has heavy armor doesn't mean it should be played accordingly and to the letter, alot of tanks are multi-role but have one main area they excel in etc.


Edited by SimoVodopan, Apr 04 2018 - 18:12.


Sgt_Schnauzer #65 Posted Apr 04 2018 - 18:15

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View PostSimoVodopan, on Apr 04 2018 - 11:08, said:

 

What this guy said, anyone that tells you to brawl in a German heavy has no idea what they're talking about... and probably haven't even played a German heavy before. A main problem is with the labels here: "Oh because it's a heavy, it's gotta brawl!" even in real life, heavy German armor stood back and shot at things from a distance because they had the big guns for it. So, play these like a support-sniper and you'll be fine and just dis-regard any comments you get from people saying such stuff like: "You're in a heavy, brawl damnit brawl!" they're ignorant/.

 

The problem is "on paper" All  later tier German HEavies except the VK 45.02A look like they should be able to brawl. The VK45.02B can brawl, but the Tiger I line cannot really brawl until the E100, and even then It's Hope you can hide you lower plate and pray the other side isn't gold spamming. 

 

Because of power creep, and horrible weak spots,  The Tiger II is only nominally better protected than an AMX 50-100, and no one in their right mind would take that French Heavy in to brawl.



SimoVodopan #66 Posted Apr 04 2018 - 18:18

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View PostSgt_Schnauzer, on Apr 04 2018 - 10:15, said:

 

The problem is "on paper" All  later tier German HEavies except the VK 45.02A look like they should be able to brawl. The VK45.02B can brawl, but the Tiger I line cannot really brawl until the E100, and even then It's Hope you can hide you lower plate and pray the other side isn't gold spamming. 

 

Because of power creep, and horrible weak spots,  The Tiger II is only nominally better protected than an AMX 50-100, and no one in their right mind would take that French Heavy in to brawl.

 

Agreed, that's something else that contributes to the problem, hence me saying: "it's a main problem". I look at these impressive armor ratings and everything and I think to myself: "Man, that should be able to sit in a alley-way and soak up hits but it doesn't".


Edited by SimoVodopan, Apr 04 2018 - 18:19.


slyther83 #67 Posted Apr 14 2019 - 22:03

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The state of this game compared to where it was 4-5 years ago is incomparable; it's far more grossly imbalanced now than it ever was. They've made bad change after bad changes, time and time again- a large portion of which is business model over balance and fixes centered around player whining. 

 

  • The new physics update is horrible. Tanks crawl up walls and almost flip over at the most absurd obstacles- it's like playing in low gravity.
  • Premium vehicles used to be weaker/higher skill roof to justify the added credit and XP earning capacity. Now, premium vehicles (specifically tier 8), are generally far more powerful than the baseline tanks you actually have to work for.
  • Premium ammunition has, for a long time, rendered slow/armored vehicles irrelevant. There is little justification to play most thick armored vehicles that have no slope, as anyone can load in 300+ pen ammunition. Mobility is the best armor in this game and nothing has changed there. 
  • Tier gaps are terribly imbalanced; The difference between 7 to 8 is massive, let alone a 2 tier spread where 6s have little to no value at all there. The game should be, at most, a 1 tier spread.
  • RNG is too volatile. Rolls for accuracy/pen/alpha should be ~15% as 25% results in too much variance for previous stats and too often negates skill.
  • Matchmaking seems ostensibly worse; queues are shorter since the server merge but perhaps a change to vehicle loadout balance? City games where team A has 6 heavies and team B has 2 heavies, field maps where one team is loaded with mediums and the other has few, etc.
  • The dispersion nerf back in 2015-16 (whenever it was around then) makes the RNG factor that much worse. Shot groups are absolutely terrible for aimed in shots by contrast.
  • How many new tanks have they added that are nothing more than recycled versions of another tank that's already in the game? It also powercreeps old tanks that aren't remotely relevant anymore, because WG doesn't care about tanks you've already unlocked and wasted time earning- they want you to unlock new ones.

 

Bottom line is, WG milked this game for all it was worth in the first few years and now changed their business model to overpowered premium tanks and the playerbase has continued to dwindle. Console is making them money now, so I'm sure they don't care that much- or they wont until its too late (already is too late)


Edited by slyther83, Apr 14 2019 - 22:21.


the_Deadly_Bulb #68 Posted Apr 14 2019 - 22:19

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View Postslyther83, on Apr 14 2019 - 13:03, said:

The state of this game compared to where it was 4-5 years ago is incomparable; it's far more grossly imbalanced now than it ever was. They've made bad change after bad changes, time and time again- a large portion of which is business model over balance and fixes centered around player whining. 

 

  • The new physics update is horrible. Tanks crawl up walls and almost flip over at the most absurd obstacles- it's like playing in low gravity.
  • Premium vehicles used to be weaker/higher skill roof to justify the added credit and XP earning capacity. Now, premium vehicles (specifically tier 8), are generally far more powerful than the baseline tanks you actually have to work for.
  • Premium ammunition has, for a long time, rendered slow/armored vehicles irrelevant. There is little justification to play most thick armored vehicles that have no slope, as anyone can load in 300+ pen ammunition. Mobility is the best armor in this game and nothing has changed there. 
  • Tier gaps are terribly imbalanced; The difference between 7 to 8 is massive, let alone a 2 tier spread where 6s have little to no value at all there. The game should be, at most, a 1 tier spread.
  • RNG is too volatile. Rolls for accuracy/pen/alpha should be ~15% as 25% results in too much variance for previous stats and too often negates skill.
  • The dispersion nerf back in 2015-16 (whenever it was around then) makes the RNG factor that much worse. Shot groups are absolutely terrible for aimed in shots by contrast.
  • How many new tanks have they added that are nothing more than recycled versions of another tank that's already in the game? It also powercreeps old tanks that aren't remotely relevant anymore, because WG doesn't care about tanks you've already unlocked and wasted time earning- they want you to unlock new ones.

 

Bottom line is, WG milked this game for all it was worth in the first few years and now changed their business model to overpowered premium tanks and the playerbase has continued to dwindle. Console is making them money now, so I'm sure they don't care that much- or they wont until its too late (already is too late)

 

So you necro a thread to cry about how you don't like the game anymore?

OK. :sceptic:



VooDooKobra #69 Posted Apr 14 2019 - 22:25

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people seem to forget an important point, premium tanks were able to be weaker because they had pref MM.  otherwise they would be destroyed at +2 as well somehow 5 years ago where one team could have more top tier vehicles or more heavies was balanced?

Who__invader #70 Posted Apr 15 2019 - 13:52

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Why can't they make it an option that you can choose to play matches that everyone is the same tier? Every once awhile I've had that happen and they turned out to be great games. It should be a game mode.




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