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Why is Tiger (P) bigger than Ferdi, but has same chassis?


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Panzerschiffer #1 Posted Sep 02 2011 - 12:20

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Has anyone else noticed this?  As you can see in the pictures below, the Tiger (P)'s chassis is a bit longer, taller, and wider (okay, can't see that it's wider in screen shots), and the wheels are bigger.  Those with both tanks can see the difference even more clearly in their own garage.  However, when comparing other tanks using the same chassis, the Panther, JagdPanther, and GW Panther, for instance, the chassis is precisely the same size on all of them.  This situation with the Porsche chassis reminds me of the discrepancy between the sizes of the Panther and Panther II when the latter first came out and was bigger than the Panther.  After much complaining from the players, the Panther II was finally reduced in size to that of the Panther.

Since the Ferdinand was built on the same chassis as the Tiger (P), there should be no difference whatsoever in chassis size between them.  Devs, please reduce the Tiger (P)'s size as soon as possible to that of the Ferdi, or increase the Ferdi's size to that of the Tiger (P), whichever is historically accurate.  I hope the Tiger (P) will be reduced in size, as making the Ferdi even bigger wouldn't be too appealing (or popular with players), as it already has a rather difficult time hiding.

(Screen shots are exactly the same scale and taken from exactly the same angle.)

http://img40.imagesh.../ferdinandn.jpg

Posted Image

batz #2 Posted Sep 02 2011 - 12:33

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I think there is others like that like some of the American Arty and the shermans

iamablocker #3 Posted Sep 02 2011 - 13:09

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i don't see any chassis size difference

the ferd's layout makes it smaller than the Tiger-P- visual-wise

now move the casemate forward and you will see that both tanks would almost, if not, be the same length

Panzerschiffer #4 Posted Sep 02 2011 - 21:34

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View Postiamablocker, on Sep 02 2011 - 13:09, said:

i don't see any chassis size difference

the ferd's layout makes it smaller than the Tiger-P- visual-wise

now move the casemate forward and you will see that both tanks would almost, if not, be the same length

They are not the same size.  Believe me.  I wouldn't have started this post unless there were quite a noticeable difference.  As I said, you can best tell if you own both tanks and switch between them in the garage.  By the same method, you can tell that the chassis of all in the Panther family, as mentioned, is exactly the same size.  However, you can still tell from the posted photos by observing the distance of the front and rear edges of the tracks from uniform points in the pavement.  Additionally, you should be able to perceive the differences in wheel size and, thus, height of the chassis.

thetap #5 Posted Sep 03 2011 - 01:44

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Same with M6 and M6A2E1. M6 chassis is noticeably larger when switching between them.

Dominatus #6 Posted Sep 03 2011 - 01:59

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Note that the inside of the Ferdinand was totally redesigned from the Tiger (P). Most major distance is that the Ferdi's engine is in the front and Tiger's in the back. By the shape of the two, that seems to be a likely reason it's different.

KillingMeSoftly #7 Posted Sep 03 2011 - 02:26

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There is likely some-kind of scaling issue but I doubt all the tanks in this game are perfectly sized.

But there are obviously major changes done to the chassis when they make a tank destroyer/artillery version of it.  This can account for the slightly different size.

Flakker2 #8 Posted Sep 03 2011 - 08:36

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Yep, the Tiger P sure is larger.

Posted Image

Now, there are 3 possible reasons for this discrepancy.

1. The vehicle 3D modelers have made a mistake and have not bothered to fix it. It could be a low priority and flagged as minor, so it may get fixed at some point in the future. The project leader has not asked for them to priority fix it, because he does not consider a sizing issue to be a big deal.

2. This is deliberately done in order to "balance" out certain vehicles and make them easier/harder to hit/spot/hide based on some internal game balance decisions that we may never know about.

3. What KillingMeSoftly stated above: "...there are obviously major changes done to the chassis when they make a tank destroyer/artillery version of it. This can account for the slightly different size."

TlGERACE #9 Posted Sep 03 2011 - 09:02

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Allow me to to add something , i am as well as you are a tank commander , we all know the great Tiger tank right , the Tiger P came along to modify three things ( Speed /Gun and Armor )still if you ask me i still like how the old tiger looks like

Best regards

Tiger Ace

Panzerschiffer #10 Posted Sep 03 2011 - 14:28

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View PostFlakker2, on Sep 03 2011 - 08:36, said:

Yep, the Tiger P sure is larger.

Posted Image

Now, there are 3 possible reasons for this discrepancy.

1. The vehicle 3D modelers have made a mistake and have not bothered to fix it. It could be a low priority and flagged as minor, so it may get fixed at some point in the future. The project leader has not asked for them to priority fix it, because he does not consider a sizing issue to be a big deal.

2. This is deliberately done in order to "balance" out certain vehicles and make them easier/harder to hit/spot/hide based on some internal game balance decisions that we may never know about.

3. What KillingMeSoftly stated above: "...there are obviously major changes done to the chassis when they make a tank destroyer/artillery version of it. This can account for the slightly different size."

I believe it quite likely that # 2 that holds the answer, possibly with a contribution from # 1.  KillingMeSoftly's # 3 really isn't viable, as it is clearly stated and known that the precise chassis of the Porsche Tiger was used for the Ferdinand; in other words, only the superstructure was altered, and it was made to fit the Tiger (P)'s chassis as is.

It was because I suspected deliberate alteration of historical fact to conform to "balance" goals that I began this post.  The same thing was going on with the Panther II in order to make it a bigger target and more easily damaged by its competition.  I won't rehash the possible underlying rationale for this.

The bottom line is that the chassis of each tank needs to be the precise same size, as it is with all of the Panthers.  As the Panther II was made to conform in size with the Panther, the Tiger (P) should be brought in line with the Ferdinand.  I never had an M6A2E1, but if thetap's observation is correct, it should conform with the size of the M6, assuming the difference isn't attributable to the much greater armor of the M6A2E1.

BlackPaw #11 Posted Sep 03 2011 - 14:48

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This is game and those are game elements.

You need the most precision and correct information; that's why we have the museum.

and I agree with #2 of what Flakker2 said.

Panzerschiffer #12 Posted Sep 03 2011 - 14:55

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As the devs finally relented on the size of the Panther II because its historical size was repeatedly brought up by players, so they should make these two tanks the same.  Game or no, the truth is the truth.

TlGERACE #13 Posted Sep 03 2011 - 15:27

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Sorry to interrupt your discussion but i have to say this ( Tiger P looks like crap vs the normal Tiger )

Thank you

Tiger Ace

Dominatus #14 Posted Sep 03 2011 - 15:50

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Again, the engine was moved from the back to the front in the Ferdinand. The insides were totally changed. As far as my sources tell, the Tiger (P) was 10cm shorter than the Ferdinand (both without gun).

That is of course, not to say that the modelers also took some liberties.

Panzerschiffer #15 Posted Sep 03 2011 - 19:20

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View PostDominatus, on Sep 03 2011 - 15:50, said:

Again, the engine was moved from the back to the front in the Ferdinand. The insides were totally changed. As far as my sources tell, the Tiger (P) was 10cm shorter than the Ferdinand (both without gun).

That is of course, not to say that the modelers also took some liberties.

Good find; that's even more reason that the Tiger (P) shouldn't be bigger than the Ferdi in-game.

Erelyes #16 Posted Sep 28 2011 - 14:28

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The cynic in me thinks there's a slim chance the models in the garage are 'adjusted' in size.

Does anyone have a screenshot of the Ferdy next to the Tiger(P) in-battle, (top-down, I guess) to show unequivocally any size difference?

I would, but I don't own either :)

Kristine #17 Posted Sep 28 2011 - 15:01

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So i'm not the only one who noticed this as well..  Also, another tank that has scaling issue is the VK4502 Ausf A. Its shorter looking compared to the VK4502 Ausf B even though they both use the exact same chassis.

the_moidart #18 Posted Sep 28 2011 - 20:50

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ROFL

People, look at the white and black banding on the floor!! The Ferdi picture is zoomed in more!

Edit. Ok, I admit it, I'm wrong. See subsequent post by me.

Kristine #19 Posted Sep 29 2011 - 00:45

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The Tiger Porsche is really bigger than the Ferdinand Porsche.  Here's a better comparison pic:
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/9158/porscher.jpg

Panzerschiffer #20 Posted Oct 04 2011 - 21:17

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View Postthe_moidart, on Sep 28 2011 - 20:50, said:

ROFL

People, look at the white and black banding on the floor!! The Ferdi picture is zoomed in more!

The Ferdi is not zoomed in more.  Both shots are taken from precisely the same distance from the tank and from precisely the same angle.




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