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Ban XVM in battle?


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Poll: Online Petition to ban XVM? (295 members have cast votes)

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Online Petition to ban XVM in battle?

  1. Yes, kill it with fire (157 votes [51.99%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 51.99%

  2. No, we need it (explain below) (96 votes [31.79%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 31.79%

  3. indifferent (bacon) (49 votes [16.23%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.23%

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sleeper_agent #181 Posted Apr 02 2018 - 19:06

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kill it with fire. its toxic!!!

Das_Reaper_1 #182 Posted Apr 02 2018 - 19:39

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I'm in favor of XVM for the simply fact, regardless of what the prediction is, that it helps me plan my strategy on how I will play the match. That's it

I don't feel it gives any in game advantage to those that use it.

 

Now that zoom out mod, that's a whole different discussion as many top players (I've seen that stream or youtube) use it and it does, I my eyes, give them an advantage to those not using it.

I started a thread here on the subject http://forum.worldof...-vanilla-client and found it funny many forum posters avoided the topic ;)



Flarvin #183 Posted Apr 02 2018 - 20:19

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View PostKenshin2kx, on Apr 02 2018 - 12:24, said:

 

exactly 

 

 

Sounds wonderful ... heck, for me it would even make artillery a bit more intuitive in that, the default (for lack of info) becomes an effective analysis of the battlefield in terms of who to aim for in terms of artillery bombardment.  Now, I do believe that the better artillery players do this already ... thing is, I am statistically certain not all of them do ... and the elimination of 'convenience stats' would then mandate that they 'have to' think and actually look, remember and choose who gets shot at.  Now, this is not to focus only on artillery, this holds true for all the other classes as well ... fog of war and the lack (or presense) of intel can play a pivotal role in the win or a loss of a match.

 

So what percentage of arty players do you think currently use XVM? 



GeneralHeinz #184 Posted Apr 02 2018 - 20:40

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I have never used XVM in any of my battles.  Not once.  Players do XVM snipe the better players.  So better players are always playing a different game.  XVM makes better players play games in higher difficulty.  I always get multiple arties trying to hit me in my last location a few seconds earlier, or trying to hit me behind some buildings, while there are plenty of higher tier slow heavy tanks sitting in the open unmolested.  My tier was lower, my tank had lower value, but I still got XVM sniped.  Those XVM-using arty players simply ignored the camping heavies in the open cause those must have been red/crappy players.  Only fog of war can really make this game fair but I know it isn't going to happen any time soon or ever.  So I just put on my season 1 gold badge and tell them to target me now.  It actually made no difference as players were already XVM sniping me regardless.

Chameleon_1999 #185 Posted Apr 02 2018 - 20:44

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View PostDas_Reaper_1, on Apr 02 2018 - 19:39, said:

I'm in favor of XVM for the simply fact, regardless of what the prediction is, that it helps me plan my strategy on how I will play the match. That's it

I don't feel it gives any in game advantage to those that use it.

 

Now that zoom out mod, that's a whole different discussion as many top players (I've seen that stream or youtube) use it and it does, I my eyes, give them an advantage to those not using it.

I started a thread here on the subject http://forum.worldof...-vanilla-client and found it funny many forum posters avoided the topic ;)

 

 

Okay, so it does help you plan strategy for game, but it also doesn't really help anyone using it.??

 

If I downloaded it, would it possibly help me to raise my stats by hunting reds? ..and stay away from purples and blues?

 

Thanks.



Chameleon_1999 #186 Posted Apr 02 2018 - 20:48

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View Postsleeper_agent, on Apr 02 2018 - 19:06, said:

kill it with fire. its toxic!!!

 

​Agreed. I would like to know why they would have even allowed it. 

 

Heeeyyyy. pssst, want to know the statistical skill of the guy(s) you are scrapping? lol  



Striker_70 #187 Posted Apr 02 2018 - 20:50

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I wish it was never implemented in the first place.  It's probably too late to get rid of it now though.  It does offer some semblance of skill based balancing, but overall XVM is not a good thing for the game.

Chameleon_1999 #188 Posted Apr 02 2018 - 20:52

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View PostGeneralHeinz, on Apr 02 2018 - 20:40, said:

I have never used XVM in any of my battles.  Not once.  Players do XVM snipe the better players.  So better players are always playing a different game.  XVM makes better players play games in higher difficulty.  I always get multiple arties trying to hit me in my last location a few seconds earlier, or trying to hit me behind some buildings, while there are plenty of higher tier slow heavy tanks sitting in the open unmolested.  My tier was lower, my tank had lower value, but I still got XVM sniped.  Those XVM-using arty players simply ignored the camping heavies in the open cause those must have been red/crappy players.  Only fog of war can really make this game fair but I know it isn't going to happen any time soon or ever.  So I just put on my season 1 gold badge and tell them to target me now.  It actually made no difference as players were already XVM sniping me regardless.

 

Is there any chance, at all, possibly, that there might be some who actually even care about stats and might (possibly) even, and god forbid, hunt the reds? Absurd, I know, but just asking.......

 

...and if the psychic powers tell them that they are at 43% chance to win the game, might rather do their own thing, rather than commit to winning the game?

 

...and would that have any effect, whatsoever, on mm blowouts occurring more often than chance?

 

...and, is there any chance I can get Magneto powers in this game rather than Professor Xaviers? 

 

I'd like to take the credit myself, but I'm Canadian.

 


Edited by Voltare_2014, Apr 02 2018 - 20:58.


Kenshin2kx #189 Posted Apr 02 2018 - 21:29

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View PostFlarvin, on Apr 02 2018 - 09:19, said:

 

So what percentage of arty players do you think currently use XVM? 

 

Couldn't say with any accuracy, merely that statistically there are those who do ... I also am adding in (admitted) anecdotal experience from my time here in terms of what enemy arty claimed (and what I observed as a result) <timeframe of dual chat capability>  Add to this, present day observation which bears a notable resemblance to a biased targeting or following of certain individuals that had correspondingly high win8 values ... As a habit, I tend to watch games through (after I die, which is often due to an aggressive play style) and observe the flow and strategy ... and in particular, I take interest in the interaction by artillery.  Now for the sake of limited brain cells, I tend to look for memorable scenarios that are simple enough for me to remember with accuracy (to check in the garage after the fact) ... say for instance if there were two E-100's as top tier going to the same general spot, I observe, or try to observe the nature of arty hits per player ID ... I do this to see if there is a predictable difference.  Now while I admit that I don't have detailed documentation on the exact results, the ballpark trend seems to me ... that in a noticeable percentage of the time ... the E-100 player with the higher XVM (all else being equal) gets a higher percentage of condentrated shots if there is more than one arty ... I further suspect that there is usually someone on the opposing team that eagerly blerts out the general roster of "good players by xvm" ... since I find that happening on our green side.

 

So, my take on this is that by taking it out, one could say with reasonable assurance that the playing field is leveled to a greater degree reliably.  My argument would follow in the spirit that xvm based abuse is already too much if done by one ... particularly if there is a way to make that into a ... none.  ... and to be honest, I would bet good money that there is a lot more than just ... one.


Edited by Kenshin2kx, Apr 02 2018 - 21:53.


scHnuuudle_bop #190 Posted Apr 02 2018 - 21:52

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View PostFlarvin, on Apr 02 2018 - 20:19, said:

 

So what percentage of arty players do you think currently use XVM? 

 

the percentage of players on the whole who use XVM in public anyway is low. Some games there are only 3 or 4 out of 30, rarely see even 1/2 players in game with xvm. 

 

XVM sniping.  perhaps every single, (that is all) xvm loaded players pick the best player.  If a player is in the higher ranking, why not pick on him. As for all  focusing on a single tank, if I was on that team, I would say thanks, 14 other players are not being shot at. 

 

It is the competitive players who want xvm, so it is just a tool for others to help out against seal clubbers. 

 



Chameleon_1999 #191 Posted Apr 02 2018 - 22:09

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View PostscHnuuudle_bop, on Apr 02 2018 - 21:52, said:

 

the percentage of players on the whole who use XVM in public anyway is low. Some games there are only 3 or 4 out of 30, rarely see even 1/2 players in game with xvm. 

 

XVM sniping.  perhaps every single, (that is all) xvm loaded players pick the best player.  If a player is in the higher ranking, why not pick on him. As for all  focusing on a single tank, if I was on that team, I would say thanks, 14 other players are not being shot at. 

 

It is the competitive players who want xvm, so it is just a tool for others to help out against seal clubbers. 

 

 

So, then, it cannot possibly be used by some to hunt reds for better stats? I mean, that would seem quite rare, right?

 

3 or 4 tanks with their own agenda, via xvm, couldn't possibly mess with MM either, right?

 

 


Edited by Voltare_2014, Apr 02 2018 - 22:12.


scHnuuudle_bop #192 Posted Apr 02 2018 - 22:14

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View PostVoltare_2014, on Apr 02 2018 - 22:09, said:

 

So, then, it cannot possibly be used by some to hunt reds for better stats? I mean, that would seem quite rare, right?

 

It is the higher caliber players like yourself who are the most aggressive, therefore up front and spotted more than most. I think that is more a reason for the focus than xvm. I like to spread the damage around anyway. I frequently get the Confederate medal for 8 or more tanks damaged in a game. I do try and go for anyone sitting still really. But yes, 3 guys spotted, if able , Mr. Purple  is the obvious choice

LeepII #193 Posted Apr 02 2018 - 22:19

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It is a cheat.  The information provided is not immediately available in that detail to the unmodded player.  This information provides a real time tactical advantage to the player using it over other honest players. 

Flarvin #194 Posted Apr 02 2018 - 23:09

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View PostscHnuuudle_bop, on Apr 02 2018 - 16:14, said:

 

It is the higher caliber players like yourself who are the most aggressive, therefore up front and spotted more than most. I think that is more a reason for the focus than xvm. 

 

This. 

 

For the stats I have seen, 1/3 of the players using XVM is about average. 

 

That meams in 3 arty matches, one on average is using XVM. And just because someone uses XVM, does not mean they are actively XVM sniping. 

 

All that does not really add up to the claims many are making about the frequency XVM sniping. Especially from arty. 

 

When I ran XVM, I rarely targeted due to stats. Good players don’t make easy targets. Arty already is on the low end of making xp, I am going to firing at targets that I can damage. 

 



Flarvin #195 Posted Apr 02 2018 - 23:10

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View PostLeepII, on Apr 02 2018 - 16:19, said:

It is a cheat.  The information provided is not immediately available in that detail to the unmodded player.  This information provides a real time tactical advantage to the player using it over other honest players. 

 

“Honest players?”

 

lol



Battlecruiser #196 Posted Apr 02 2018 - 23:12

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View PostKenshin2kx, on Apr 02 2018 - 12:28, said:

 

Okay, now I'm a bit confused ... so, removing XVM <stat elements> can cause 'financial damage' ... so, what would be the treatment then?  I'm thinking that if some players leave due to stat removal ... there would be a fairly good potential for others to stay (or even return) due to the less toxic stat based culture of the game (while playing it).

 

give people the option to hide their stats from the public api.

Introduce a fog of war variant to random battles that you can opt for. if it becomes popular then make it the primary mode type.

expand on the player rating system. Probably a combination of adding more things to track for and a reformation of player rating to focus more on things that win games. add it to a new tab in stats called "competitive rating"

eventual integration of xvm type mechanics (being able to see peoples "stats" in-game, total team hitpoints, etc etc) but continue to allow the option for people to hide their stats from this feature.

that should about do it. If people are given a choice i bet most people will hide, then stats gathering becomes useless except to troll somebody with your 41% alt account.

Kenshin2kx #197 Posted Apr 02 2018 - 23:27

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View PostBattlecruiser, on Apr 02 2018 - 12:12, said:

 

give people the option to hide their stats from the public api.

Introduce a fog of war variant to random battles that you can opt for. if it becomes popular then make it the primary mode type.

expand on the player rating system. Probably a combination of adding more things to track for and a reformation of player rating to focus more on things that win games. add it to a new tab in stats called "competitive rating"

eventual integration of xvm type mechanics (being able to see peoples "stats" in-game, total team hitpoints, etc etc) but continue to allow the option for people to hide their stats from this feature.

that should about do it. If people are given a choice i bet most people will hide, then stats gathering becomes useless except to troll somebody with your 41% alt account.

 

Hmmm ... that sounds viable from the standpoint of 'gradual and choice driven' trend, rather than controversial mandate ... I like it.  :great:

Battlecruiser #198 Posted Apr 02 2018 - 23:36

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View PostKenshin2kx, on Apr 02 2018 - 17:27, said:

 

Hmmm ... that sounds viable from the standpoint of 'gradual and choice driven' trend, rather than controversial mandate ... I like it.  :great:

 

then maybe they can bring back all chat...

Freedom of choice is something I strongly believe in as an essential human right. I try to advocate for it wherever I can. Especially video games where people are often trying to escape from a lack of choice or a lack of freedom.

scHnuuudle_bop #199 Posted Apr 03 2018 - 00:17

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So, now, lets look at this from a different view.

 

How many high ranked players use XVM to decide which flank is going to be easier to dominate.

I see these players going where (how this is a thing) they are not supposed to go. THey usually ignore the screeches of others telling them they are going the wrong way. Frequently, that flank collapses, so is it either surprise or  by using XVM  to choose where the weakest players are going to be.  

 

How is that any different? They seal club and crush the flank, then go after the better players. Sort of reverse XVM sniping. 

 

A pleasure to watch someone who knows what they are doing, at least when on my team.


Edited by scHnuuudle_bop, Apr 03 2018 - 00:18.


Kenshin2kx #200 Posted Apr 03 2018 - 00:17

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View PostBattlecruiser, on Apr 02 2018 - 12:36, said:

 

then maybe they can bring back all chat...

Freedom of choice is something I strongly believe in as an essential human right. I try to advocate for it wherever I can. Especially video games where people are often trying to escape from a lack of choice or a lack of freedom.

 

Hahaha ... I could see that ... just possibly.  I would hedge a bit though, in the form of genuine liability.  Some kind of game based 'blacklist' (for just that match) for 30 players ... but for those who intend to grief by intel sabotage -  banned for a time frame that hurts ... The key as I see it is either acknowledged chaos (anything goes) ... or degrees of control WITH corresponding causal liability for actions.  




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