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Overpowered tank destroyer HE; underpowered arty HE = imbalance HE

High Explosive HE Arty Nerf Over Powered HE Underpowered HE HE Imbalance TDs vs arty

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Silence_I_Keeeel_You #1 Posted Mar 30 2018 - 17:51

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So a while back wargaming nerfed the crap out of HE in artillery.  It can not one shot tanks anymore from full HP with any consistency now and it's damage is very lack-luster even with accuracy and stun etc, but on the flip side they have left all

the TDs that shoots HE rounds able to one shot kill in a heartbeat nearly any tank they hit at least 25% of the time.  

More if the player is skilled and patient.  I have a friend who plays the ISU152 and routinely does 4-5k damage from

great patience and HE shells.

 

I watched end of battle Cromwell vs b-c arty.  The Cromwell was on 100hp.  The b-c full HP 450 or so idk.

The arty HE splash before the nerf would have been more than enough to kill and a direct hit was guaranteed a kill.

This battle was lost because of arty rolling low!  The arty HIT the Cromwell right on top of the turret at near point

blank range.   He did 80 damage and the Cromwell won by two shots maybe three.

 

If this were ANY OTHER HE carrying tank and esp nearly any TD at tier 6, the Cromwell would have been DEAD.

If that were an OI vs the Cromwell it would have been dead. SU100Y same. Every tank that fires HE as it's primary

round would have one shot the Cromwell, but instead HE splash for 80 and lost the round.

 

This is not about arty HE being underpowered it's about TD HE being OVERPOWERED.

They should lower the damage potential of ALL HE to be equal to that of arty or balance arty HE.

 

I do not want this to be about arty.  It's about ALL HE rounds in general.  HE was antipersonnel never anti-armor. 

It should never have ability to one shot a tank.  HE in wot is way over powered.   Wargaming says "working as intended*

but it's should not work like that.  HE splash effect is has no basis in any kind of shell mechanic fact and is one of the

worst fallacies of this game.  So much effort on scenic realism and AP shell pen mechanics

only to ruin it with utter b*ll$hit trash HE pen, splash and damage mechanics.



Vardeman #2 Posted Mar 30 2018 - 18:01

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How did a crommy (tier 6) and a batchat arty (tier 9 or 10) end up in the same battle?

 



_Tsavo_ #3 Posted Mar 30 2018 - 18:04

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I'm not sure where a tier 6 can see a tier 9 or 10 arty.  The ability for fail toons was removed a long while ago

Wouldyoulookatthetime #4 Posted Mar 30 2018 - 18:21

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he meant the lorraines

 



dominator_98 #5 Posted Mar 30 2018 - 18:31

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HE is a bad mechanic that lets idiots do well without having to use knowledge and understanding of weak spots to do well. All tanks that rely on HE as a primary ammo type  need their guns reworked.

GHR1227 #6 Posted Mar 30 2018 - 18:50

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OOPS! I  posted from my friend's account in error.  Shared computer. 

I logged out and in correctly but seem to have posted on wrong account still.  For some reason my browser kept reverting to prior log in.

 

ANYWAY!

Yes.  That is what I meant.  It was a tier 5 Lorraine arty.    Maybe that was the reason.  Lorr has low splash, but my original comment was

the HE should have done more than 80 HP in a direct hit.  We lost that battle through a combination of RNG and by design of HE nerf only for arty.

 

And yes HE is a bad mechanic in this game.  It can do non-penetrating "damage" by "splash effect". 

If that is so why does splash from normal HE not "stun" the crew?  If that is so ALL HE should "stun" the crew not just arty.

One more aspect of wargaming fixing what was not broken (graphics), but leaving alone something that is general HE pen and arty stun mechanics.

 

2/3 of my clan mates no longer play WoT.  They have all become disillusioned of World of Tanks (- that and they are mostly mid-teens who have

short attention spans and all got addicted to PubG on STEAM.)  But if WoT was fun they would still be here.



stalkervision #7 Posted Mar 30 2018 - 19:40

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View PostGHR1227, on Mar 30 2018 - 12:50, said:

OOPS! I  posted from my friend's account in error.  Shared computer. 

I logged out and in correctly but seem to have posted on wrong account still.  For some reason my browser kept reverting to prior log in.

 

ANYWAY!

Yes.  That is what I meant.  It was a tier 5 Lorraine arty.    Maybe that was the reason.  Lorr has low splash, but my original comment was

the HE should have done more than 80 HP in a direct hit.  We lost that battle through a combination of RNG and by design of HE nerf only for arty.

 

And yes HE is a bad mechanic in this game.  It can do non-penetrating "damage" by "splash effect". 

If that is so why does splash from normal HE not "stun" the crew?  If that is so ALL HE should "stun" the crew not just arty.

One more aspect of wargaming fixing what was not broken (graphics), but leaving alone something that is general HE pen and arty stun mechanics.

 

2/3 of my clan mates no longer play WoT.  They have all become disillusioned of World of Tanks (- that and they are mostly mid-teens who have

short attention spans and all got addicted to PubG on STEAM.)  But if WoT was fun they would still be here.

 

Makes no sense whatsoever does it?  The whole arty mechanic is SILLY now.  Right now arty is far too accurate but does far too little damage. The only thing it can take out reliably is other arty. :facepalm:

 Yet derp tank guns do it all the time. :amazed:

 

 WG fix this nonsense.



Vardeman #8 Posted Mar 30 2018 - 19:50

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View PostGHR1227, on Mar 30 2018 - 12:50, said:

OOPS! I  posted from my friend's account in error.  Shared computer. 

I logged out and in correctly but seem to have posted on wrong account still.  For some reason my browser kept reverting to prior log in.

 

ANYWAY!

Yes.  That is what I meant.  It was a tier 5 Lorraine arty.    Maybe that was the reason.  Lorr has low splash, but my original comment was

the HE should have done more than 80 HP in a direct hit.  We lost that battle through a combination of RNG and by design of HE nerf only for arty.

 

And yes HE is a bad mechanic in this game.  It can do non-penetrating "damage" by "splash effect". 

If that is so why does splash from normal HE not "stun" the crew?  If that is so ALL HE should "stun" the crew not just arty.

One more aspect of wargaming fixing what was not broken (graphics), but leaving alone something that is general HE pen and arty stun mechanics.

 

2/3 of my clan mates no longer play WoT.  They have all become disillusioned of World of Tanks (- that and they are mostly mid-teens who have

short attention spans and all got addicted to PubG on STEAM.)  But if WoT was fun they would still be here.

 

The leafblower?  it only has 53 penetration vs 57 armor in the back, 63 armor in the side and 76 armor in the front (all turret) so it's no wonder it did so little especially on a direct hit.  It DID NOT PENETRATE.  And the caliber is 105mm, so it could not overmatch.  If it had hit the crommy in the rear of the hull, it would have blown him away.

 

 


Edited by Vardeman, Mar 30 2018 - 19:53.


Spotify_Premium #9 Posted Mar 30 2018 - 20:02

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I don't really know how not to laugh at that original post. But firing HE out of the ISU 152 would be like handicapping yourself considering the standard round gets 260mm penetration and gold round pen of 292. I would only fire HE at either a hull down tank with 0% chance of pen, or lightly armored vehicles like Skorpion G. This whole topic is silly considering he missed any actual valid points toward broken HE mechanics **cough** "Type 5 premium HE". Also, The SU100Y is not intended to fire HE as "primary round" unless you are a scrub and you are shorting yourself a lot of damage in a match.

n4cer67 #10 Posted Mar 30 2018 - 21:01

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Just give SPG's HE back it's full damage while keeping accuracy improvements. HE is supposed to do great amounts of damage no matter what gun is shooting it.

GHR1227 #11 Posted Mar 30 2018 - 21:04

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OF course the ISU152 and SU100Y are supposed to fire HE but MANY PEOPLE DO especially on mediums and lights which are more times than not ONE SHOT KILLS or again dos massive damage.   Compare that to HE in arty which was nerfed the crap out of and it's a ludicrous imbalance.   Think KV2.  You should not fire HE but everyone and I mean EVERYONE does.    And if they are not primary rounds then why in hell does the loadout for the 122mm gun when you buy it have 12 HE 5 AP ?   Kinda makes you wonder if WG is telling us something?

 

As for the arty vs Cromwell I don't know now.    It was a while ago.  Last summer.

I had to have been in an arty.  It was on serene coast and it was a tier 7 battle.   I was not the one in the arty that rolled low.

I was spectating it from another tank.    I don't have a replay and could not since I was spectating anyway.


Edited by GHR1227, Mar 30 2018 - 21:05.


GHR1227 #12 Posted Mar 30 2018 - 21:19

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View Postn4cer67, on Mar 30 2018 - 14:01, said:

Just give SPG's HE back it's full damage while keeping accuracy improvements. HE is supposed to do great amounts of damage no matter what gun is shooting it.

 

I was trying to avoid the arty whiners by not implying this.

 

HE is supposed to do massive damage.   Get hit with a real 240mm (T92HMC) and YOU WILL DIE! PERIOD!

Get splash by 240mm and you will be STUNNED! Period!  SO that at least is realistic but how it's executed in the game is wrong.

 

I think they should rework arty though.   Maybe give arty players real ballistic calculations, elevation and rotation of the gun.

Make spg almost it's own game.  Still dependent on spotters but get rid of the over head view.

 

Make a simplified mode and a realistic mode for that.  And difficulty accordingly.  Maybe even have that for tanks too.

BECOME the gunner in the tank rather than just aim and shoot.  But that makes WoT into a real tank sim not the

arcade game it is. 



Dirizon #13 Posted Apr 04 2018 - 00:49

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This post makes no sense.

Is there any sense to post in it



Dirizon #14 Posted Apr 04 2018 - 00:51

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I have done 157 damage to a Type 64 LT, in a KV2.

Whether coming from artillery or TDs or tanks, HE sucks. 

It is extremely unreliable and random



pepe_trueno #15 Posted Apr 04 2018 - 03:06

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View PostDirizon, on Apr 04 2018 - 00:51, said:

I have done 157 damage to a Type 64 LT, in a KV2.

Whether coming from artillery or TDs or tanks, HE sucks. 

It is extremely unreliable and random

 

thats becouse of the "edited" formula HE uses, if my memory dosnet fail it was something along this lines:

dmg on a non pen =dmg*0.5 - armor*1.1*spall coeficient

 

furthermore if HE hits spaced armor the formula is apllied twice so against 2 layers of armor the round will loose 75% of its damage from the go even if those layers are of 20mm, then of course you have all those moments when they hit 250mm of armor and still do lots of damage, thats becouse of splash hiting a soft area within its radius.

 

anyway the mechanics behind HE realy need a rework, my 2 cents on this are:

 

first remove or severely reduce splash on non arty guns,  HE should reward shots that can hit soft areas 

second is to rework the formula to be heavily based on armor thickness say: dmg on a non pen = dmg - armor*6*spall coeficient  

 



Ich_bin_Hass #16 Posted Apr 07 2018 - 16:10

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When artty was one shoting tanks in artty mod. It was with AP and Heat ammo not HE ! That's why WoTs took artty AP and Heat ammo OUT ! That's why you don't know what you're talking about.

Edited by Ich_bin_Hass, Apr 07 2018 - 16:11.


Milk_Noot #17 Posted Apr 07 2018 - 17:52

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Arty is still one shooting tanks. Or doing massive dmg of 6-700 along with massive perma crew stuns. Artly should have Zero penetration mechanics problem solved

 

Also when tier X arty drops bombs on tier 8 meds = one shot lol

 

pathetic gameplay


Edited by Nissan_PRO4X, Apr 07 2018 - 17:53.


stubmw #18 Posted Apr 08 2018 - 13:57

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Oh the drama, sounds like someone got derped by a TD and needs a safe space from HE.

SpectreHD #19 Posted Apr 08 2018 - 15:36

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Here is a difference. Non arty HE requires line of sight.

 

Arty HE doesn't. There's the balance.



rogueluke #20 Posted Apr 09 2018 - 14:15

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I have to agree with the OP.

recently i bounced 1050 damage from a arty in my T95 at close range and seen other bounces at longer ranges.

i very seldom ever see a HE tank bounce rounds off my T95.  

 






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