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Did the Germans actually use AP rounds in the 10.5 cm Stu.H 42 L/28?


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Not_Connery #1 Posted Apr 01 2018 - 15:14

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So, basically exactly what it says in the title.

 

I was wondering if the Germans ever actually used AP rounds in the howitzer guns that they mounted in, for example, the Sturmgeschütz?  And if they did ever use AP rounds in assault guns, why?  As I understand it, assault guns like the Stug or the like were to be used to support infantry in attacking fortifications and they thus used mostly HE howitzer shells.

 

It's just a question that's been in my head for a bit.



Lethalhavoc #2 Posted Apr 01 2018 - 15:54

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After the Germans discovered the T-34, German arms made new shells to deal with it.

The Germans actually developed a surprising number of different rounds for the same gun during the war.



FrozenKemp #3 Posted Apr 01 2018 - 16:03

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But for the 105mm howitzer?  It wasn't mounted on Stugs until after they ran into T-34s (1942, according to wikipedia).



Lethalhavoc #4 Posted Apr 01 2018 - 16:23

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1942 was a big year in developing new ammunition and i honestly can't see the Germans sending out any assault gun without some kind of AP round.



the_dude_76 #5 Posted Apr 01 2018 - 16:37

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View PostLethalhavoc, on Apr 01 2018 - 15:23, said:

1942 was a big year in developing new ammunition and i honestly can't see the Germans sending out any assault gun without some kind of AP round.

 

Why?? In real life a 10.5 cm HE round would totally wreck a tank.

Beausabre #6 Posted Jul 30 2019 - 08:38

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Apparently yes. Download a copy of US Army TM 9-1985-3, available on line. Even though it's dated 1955, Europe must have been awash with munitions from the war and some of it was in the inventories of smaller states, so this looks like something MI and EOD folks would have had. Anyway, I thought I would find a HEAT round. Nein, Herr Oberst! On page 456-457 , there she be, BUT a gen-ewe-wine AP round for the le FH 16 and le FH 18 series., the "10-cm Pzgr", chock full of 1.5 lbs of TNT goodness detonated by PETN set off by the Bd Z fur 10-cm Pzgr base detonating fuze.  However, we continue paging through and there is another AP round on pages 470-471 and, FINALLY,  HEAT rounds on pages 474-477 ! Now could rounds for the Le FH 16 and le FH 18 be used in Stu H 42? The TM appears to be silent on this (it's organized by round, not by weapon) - there might have been a separate manual for AFV's and another for small arms and still another for demolition charges / mines, etc. I would assume that for rationality is supply the answer is yes.

Now, the AP rounds would certainly be useful in bunker busting, which is definitely a job for an assault gun. And could have been developed prior to the wide spread adoption of HEAT, which was late Thirties / Early WW2 for most armies. In addition, whether AP or HEAT, one thing the Eastern Front had proved is that every piece of artillery needed to be able to kill tanks. That's the reason the US M2 105mm had a HEAT round http://www.usarmymodels.com/ARTICLES/105mm%20Ordnance/2%20105mmAmmunition.html



Beausabre #7 Posted Jul 30 2019 - 15:10

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1) Did some digging around and it turns out that the weapon aboard the StuH was a derivative of the le FH 18, so this the ammunition in question.

2) Here's the series of manuals

TM 9-1985-1 British Explosive Ordnance (July 1952); 454 pages, 289 illus. Price 45.00 {Item No. 4236} [Includes: Aircraft bombs, pistols, fuzes, detonators, rockets, grenades, landmines, firing devices and demolition stores]

  • TM 9-1985-2 German Explosive Ordnance (Bombs, Fuzes, Rockets, Land Mines, Grenades and Igniters)(March 1953); 346 pages, 315 illus. Price 38.00 {Item No.4152} [Vol.1 of 2, TM 9-1985-3 is Vol.2] [Difficult to photocopy, but is readable]
  • TM 9-1985-3 German Explosive Ordnance (Projectiles and Projectile Fuses) (March 1953); 277 pages, 298 illus. Price 32.00 {Item No.4153} [Vol.2 of 2, TM 9- 198502 is Vol.1] [Difficult to photocopy, but is readable]
  • TM 9-1985-4 Japanese Explosive Ordnance (Bombs, Bomb Fuzes, Land Mine, Grenades, Firing Devices and Sabotage Devices)(March 1953); 263 pages, 200 illus. Price 27.00 {Item No.3772} [Vol.1 of 2, TM 9-1985-5 is Vol.2]
  • TM 9-1985-5 Japanese Explosive Ordnance (Army Ammunition, Navy Ammunition)(March 1953); 287 pages, 251 illus. Price 29.00 {Item No.3773} [Vol.2 of 2, TM 9-1985-4 is Vol.1]
  • TM 9-1985-6 Italian and French Explosive Ordnance (March 1953); 213 pages, 282 illus. Price 22.00 {Item No.2959}





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